Prince

Ever since my wife and I had a talk about her going out a lot to bars with her work friends, she's cut down some. Last week though she went out 3 times in a row, which kind of annoyed me but I figured that since she just switched to a different branch office (which she's helping get started, then she probably returns to the old office) she wanted to hang out with her old work friends. Which she did, but after one night she came home and said that after her female colleagues left the bar, one of the guys decided to take off too, and told her he was going to wait outside for her. To hook up.

She brushed it off as a half-joke, but after a while he called her cell from outside the bar, trying to coax her into coming out and getting in his car. She had to tell him repeatedly no, like he wasn't accepting the answer. Eventually she left the bar and drove home, and called him on his cell telling him to go home [to his wife].

Now, initially when she got home, was very upset about it, because she was concerned that this was going to be a problem in the future and might keep her from having a good time drinking with her friends - including him. I thought I was doing the right thing by reassuring her that more than likely since it was a bar, after midnight, and they were drunk, he felt a "now or never" moment and decided to act on whatever desires he has towards her, and that certainly now he understands it won't happen, and will in the future not do an encore. This seemed to make sense to her and make her feel better.

But now, a few days later, I'm not sure I feel quite as understanding. At the time, I felt the need to hide that fact that what had transpired was, for one thing, no big surprise to me, and that I did shift some of the blame on her shoulders as well. Unjustifiably, perhaps. You see, if a married woman goes to bar 3 nights a week and comes home hammered at 2-3 am, to me that suggests that she's looking for something. So a part of me feels like she was receiving just the kind of attention you can expect to receive from guys in a bar. Whether they work with you or not.

But at the same time, I know that just because she's in a bar doesn't grant anyone the right to come on to her and try to get her to fuck them. I am pissed, and the best I can describe it is feeling personally insulted that some guy would try to fuck her, fully aware that she's my wife. I know this happens all the time, all over the world, and that some guys aren't so lucky as to have their wives decline the offers. But somehow it just feels absurd. The thought that someone would have so little respect for the marriage of others.

Truth be told, I don't want her hanging around that guy. It's not that I don't trust her, but the idea just makes me uncomfortable. Perhaps my initial reaction to be the Good Sensible Rationalizing Guy was a mistake, because now that I've had some time to ferment on this, I don't want her anywhere near that piece of shit. Last night she kept telling me all these jokes the guy had told her, and I kept thinking about how I really didn't want to hear any of them. She still seems to find him funny... I don't.

I'm not really clear on how I am supposed to feel about this.

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snowy

You're much more patient than I would be. If my SO were going out three nights a week without me, I'm not sure I would be quite so understanding. I feel you're exactly right--without intending to, your wife has put herself out there as looking for something because of her choice to be out till late without her husband.

Regardless, you need to talk to your wife, non-confrontationally, about how you feel. She should know. Otherwise, shit like this just festers, and in the end you're left with a lot more to deal with versus if you'd just talked about it in the first place. Be open and honest.

I'm not sure what comes after that, but I know talking about it is always a good place to start.

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pig

Prince:

My perspective: First off, I think it's good that you showed that you trust your wife and didn't blame her for this guy's behavior. I don't think that she is getting what she asked for, unless she's being provocative at the bar. If she gives him a reason to think he could take her out and fuck her in his car, and if he has a t-top camarro and a totally awesome mullet, perhaps I could understand his position. It really depends on the quality of the crystal meth he makes in his trailer, because people fucking each other in cars after drinking with co-workers is pretty much straight-up trailer trash. Regardless, I also would feel concerned about my wife/ladyfriend/etc hanging out with someone who would solicit them, repeatedly, for sex after such a situation. Does your wife want to hang out with this guy? What's her motivation? If someone did that to me, or to my girl, I wouldn't want to have jack shit to do with them. It sounds like she told you about it, which would tend to make me feel more trusting of her...but I'd not want her around the guy, as you can't trust him. Or rather, you can trust him to be himself, which sounds like a moderately creepy guy being disrespectful of you, and of his own wife. Wonder if she's aware of this?

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uncle phil

for what it's worth...you think she's worth waiting for? i've been through this before and my way of thinking is, if somebody out there is better than me, go for it...i don't need you messing up my life...but that's just my opinion...

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Prince

I don't think she wants to stop hanging out with him, she just wants him to go back to "friend mode." She used to always speak of him like he was a really stand-up guy, and she's disappointed in him. As for me, being a guy myself, I know how well that "friend mode" works, and it's just not good enough for me. But at the same time I know that her friends are a constant crowd, and it's difficult for her to separate herself from one person without stepping away from pretty much the whole group.

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Manic_Skafe

Yeah, if the trust were there then you wouldn't have been worried at all.

And if my woman knew my trust for her to be so lacking that I couldn't stomach the idea of another man making a pass at her then she sure as hell had better be much more interested in setting our relationship straight then getting shitfaced 3 times a week.

These are the same issues from the last thread - you two should seek some counseling before things get too bad to be rectified.

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Tully Mars

I'd let her know exactly how you feel about the situation. I'd wait until I was able to do so in a calm manner. But honesty is always the best policy in these matters, IMO. Personally I hear some hesitation in your feelings, if so decide exactly how you feel prior to discussing it with her.

I'm not sure I agree you're wife's putting herself "out there" simply because she choose to be out with friends after a certain hour without you. IMO, if your relationship is strong and trusting it shouldn't matter where or when she chooses to go out.

In regards to him and his actions, I'm with Pig. You know it's one thing to be out with friends or co-workers, drinking, letting loose and have some flirting fly back and forth. It's a completely different thing to take it to a level of "hey come out to my car and fuck me." Basically there's limits and this guy doesn't seem to know them. Perhaps he does when he sober but it seems, at least while drinking, he does not.

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Willravel

If it were me, this would be ultimatum time. Her behavior is highly inappropriate, as was illustrated by this most recent situation. This is a married woman behaving like she's single. It's past time for her to mature in her behavior, and she needs to understand that you want a wife, not a buddy.

Hammered 3+ nights a week? Could be alcoholism.

BTW, if that guy insists on being an asshole and continues to pursue your wife, you may need to take a more proactive role. At the very least, you may want to join your wife if you're aware they are going out again.

pig

Well, in my experience, that trip "back to friend mode" is pretty much non-existant. Once you ask a married co-worker to fuck you in the parking lot, it's kind of a one-way deal. That's what he wants to do, and if he can, he will. She can set him down hard, and maybe that friendship will wither. That's about the best you can hope for - and maybe down the line after people have the chance to grow and learn, and actual friendship could develop. If she leaves it hanging, it's probably going to invite him to get it another go at some point.

I do recognize onesnowy's point, especially after perusing the other thread. Some people just like the bar-life - I used to love it. But life is about choices and compromises - and hanging out and appearing distant from you in a bar...is well, being distant from you in a bar. How does she handle her drinking? I like to drink, my girlfriend doesn't. I drink around the house, but I wouldn't leave her ass at home repeatedly to go get fucked up. I think the signal that would send to her...well, would be exactly the same signal you're receiving from your wife. It sounds a little something like "I don't give a shit how you feel." Most people I know wouldn't want to be home, after working all day, and having their partner off getting hammered with other people, some of whom want to fuck them in the back seat of their VW.

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Seaver

I'm sorry but I'm going to be that guy. She has flirted with this guy for probably the entire tenure of her work over there. She has fed off of his flirtation, and has flirted back. She probably even started wearing lower cut shirts to see the reaction he gave. At this juncture, he decided "fuck it, I'll give it a shot." Is he a dick? Absolutely.

I have no doubt that your wife has been flirting. That being said, I don't think it's really a bad thing. She handled it well, and hid nothing from you. I'm a flirt, I do it all the time without realizing it. To me I'm just being nice, and when someone is overly nice to me I feed off of it. The reality is I have to constantly re-assure my friends that I'm not trying to sleep with their girlfriends (honestly I would NEVER do that). That being said, you have every right to ask her never to hang out with him again. This isn't simple flirtation anymore, and as said earlier he has made his intentions clear. At this point if he tries something again, you run the gambit of how drunk your wife is. Unfortunately for both of you, the fault would then lay with yourselves as he had made his intentions clear.

Going out 3 times a week wouldn't bother me either, however the line is drawn when she gets drunk. She is absolutely acting immature, and I agree she's searching for something. I'm sure she would be furious if you went out and got shitfaced half the week.

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Xerxys

Ditto what seaver said, it's not about trust, I know for damn well that if you went this long you definitely trust her, you dont trust the angel, (devil in this case) you dont know. If she's getting drunk then he's probably thinking "today will be the day this happens". That's all there is to it, he's a dude, I'm a dude, your a dude, as simple as elementary math. The attention thing is also a huge factor.

Daniel_

We all get a thrill out of being wanted, and he wants her, so she's thrilled.

We all get security out of a loving partner at home waiting for us, and she's got at, so she's secure.

Right now it's a joke and a giggle that he wants her (to her). He's still chasing her though, and her moral sense already accepts that what she's doing is not cheating, when you clearly think it is - check out the "what is cheating?" thread.

I think that her boundaries will gradually slip until she has sex with him. She may well have done already - I've seen the joking turn real faster than you'd expect.

Personally, I'd want to talk to your wife's co-workers and the man's wife. If she's banging him, her co-workers will know, and if she refuses to let you talk to her co-workers then she's banging him (from experience in my social circle over many years).

If the worst happens, go nuclear and tell his wife that he's trying to fuck your wife.

If you want to spy on your wife, you can look at her phone bill and see how often she's calling and texting him, or even read her messages - not that I advocate such breach of trust, but if it uncovers marital infidelity, then at least it means you get more than she does in the divorce.

I really feel for you in all of this, but I think that your marriage is not on equal terms any more (if it ever was). You look after the home, and she's out till all hours drinking and getting hit on, and maybe screwing her co-worker(s).

You need serious profession grade relationship help, locally, and involving your wife voluntarily.

Unless you can sort these issues out, all you are doing is enabling her bad behaviour. In essence, you have a strongly co-dependent relationship, she needs you at home (regardless of whether she wants to actually BE with you) and you need her to have your ring on her finger (regardless of whether that actually MEANS anything to her.

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ratbastid

I can't speak to the rest of it, but you've got to give her credit for coming right home and telling you about it. I mean look: she came home to you. That says a lot. Being suspicious of her now is inappropriate and illogical, and will only push her away.

This isn't to say it's all rosy. It's not. You guys have stuff to hash out. But it doesn't sound to me like she'll be jumping into any back seats any time soon.

Jenna

It sounds to me like yes, you're wife did flirt, and kind of brought the situation upon herself. I've been on two sides of this story.

There HAVE been cases where, a guy I knew awhile ago and hooked up with, wouldn't stop calling me and texting me, and I seriously wasn't flirting with him, at all. But he kept insisting that we get together. My boyfriend had enough and just left him a nice message saying to back the fuck off. He stopped calling.

But then again, there's other times, where I've flirted with a guy, kind of "lead him on," I suppose you could say, and my boyfriend's way of handling it was to call him up, and tell him again, what's up. Was it all his fault? No. Do I talk to him anymore though? Nope. So I guess it worked?

Why do we go and flirt even though we have a secure relationship at home? Because every woman wants to feel sexy, and desirable. Once in a serious relationship, you sometimes take for granted how your significant other feels. It's not that my boyfriend never tells me he thinks I'm sexiest woman alive, because he does this everyday, many times a day. But, it's a security blanket, and you're used to it.

Jinn

Addiction is defined by the consequences, not by how it makes you feel. In my mind, she's starting to stack up consequences without any alteration in her behavior. Were my wife acting this way, I too would suspect alcoholism - it's insidious, and it can hide in "having a good time" when you live in a society so permissive of addiction as ours.

Unfortunately, I don't know what the "solution" is.. all I can say is that I feel a good deal of sympathy for you, because its understandably a position where you can be hurt easily. By the by, you're an incredibly concise and descriptive writer - I remember thinking it when I read the first one, and again in this one. I'll read about your woes any day.

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Bruce Vain

My wife had an affair three years ago with her boss. It started out as "innocent" flirting, and quickly escalated. She lied to me repeatedly about things.

And here's the kicker ... while the affair was going on, she was telling me about all the rumors flying around the office about them. My wife and I joked about her "office boyfriend", because I just KNEW my wife would never cheat on me. It bothered me somewhat, but I rationalized it by thinking "She wouldn't be telling me this stuff if anything was really happening."

All that to say -- just because she's coming home and telling you about this stuff doesn't mean something isn't happening already. Not to cast aspersions on your wife, but her behavior isn't what you'd expect from a happily married person who wants to remain faithful.

Counseling helped us, and our relationship is stronger now that it ever was, but I don't wish that hell on anybody. I hope that's not what's happening here.

robot_parade

Yeah. It needs to stop. Three nights in a week? No. Just no.

TH12

If a male friend made a pass at your wife, while you weren't there, in a friendly way, you'd have never heard about it.

Your wife told you about this because she felt threatened in some way. She sought your protection, at least emotionally. The guy was a little to insistant, to obsessive. She was a little afraid.

kutulu

I don't think you need to be upset with her but I do think you should let her know exactly what you think of the other guy and how any chance of friendship with him is doomed.

william

You're in for a world of hurt. In the beginning, it was a tease for her to taunt you. No reaction. (from you) Time's up - either you shut them down or you shut yourselves down.

yournamehere

Married woman + liquor + assertive man = bad news.

Just my $.02, from a decade and a half of experience as a bartender. I've seen it all. The names change; the story doesn't. And let me also throw in this: Anyone - male or female - who spends 8 hours a day in a bar three nights a week has a drinking problem. Period. The possible exception is that rare individual who can nurse a drink for two hours, and alternate with non-alcoholic drinks throughout the night, and leave sober at last call. This doesn't sound like your wife fits into that category, though.

Barflies (a horribly sexist and perhaps outdated term, I know - but sometimes apt) are there for only two things: Sex and/or alcohol (and drugs). Either way, you finish 3rd on a bad day; 2nd on a good day.

Or . . . . . it could be completely innocent, just the way your wife tells it. But the odds are against that.

It's one thing to go out with co-workers for Happy Hour; staying out till the bars close (and the rest of the female companions have long ago gone home to their husbands) 3 nights a week is quite another.

Also, I think it's time for a talk with the male co-worker. I think you should let him know there will be consequences if he comes on to your wife again.

And if I'm allowed another $.02, I think there should have been consequences for the first time.

I feel for you - I was once engaged to a woman who had everything - great looks, great sense of humor, promising career, even a sickeningly rich family. But I had to call it off because I came to the realization that I would always come in second to alcohol in her life. It was a difficult decision, but I very quickly came to realize it was for the best.

I'm not saying you should kick her to the curb and run like hell, but you and she have some difficult conversations ahead of you. I suspect she needs help with her drinking problem (and don't let her say it's not a problem - it's a problem to you - and that's as real as it needs to be). Hopefully, she'll realize that and be thankful she has someone who will be willing to stand by her during a difficult transition. If she doesn't, you might want to think about what's best for you in the long run.

Good luck.

.

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