shakran

Quite frankly at this point I have my doubts as to whether he meets the age requirements here.

match000

lol,

i raise issues when i think there is an important reason for one. i dont care if i get emotional, needy, or possessive.. i mean i know its bad but i do what i feel like is needed for the relationship.

it just means i don't have to be a fake person constantly strategizing on what to say and how to act. i just do it.

i think that is real 'cockniess'.

Cynthetiq

wow... that set back the "emotional sensitive man" back like 3 decades...

emotions aren't bad, what is bad is how one reacts to and deals with the emotions. also, if you think that you can "flip" the situation so that she can forget about the drama, you've got another thing coming, she'll just say you aren't listening nor are you paying attention to her need to just speak without need to fix it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

liamfoster

guys i'm not talking about a 5-10 years stable relationship here, i'm talking about the very first months, when both parties are getting to know one another.
What I said about men it is as well valid for women, i'd see how any average guy would react if at the beginning of a relationship the girl would get at once needy, obsessed and predictable..... i'd say he wouldnt find her attractive any more.

If you start a relationship and u realize that u r really into her/him, then it's better to back up - is this a strategy? whatever
Someone can be totally himself/herself only if he/she doesnt care that much about the other person. Hence, no strategies are needed, if you loose her/him, who cares!

Again, a strategy doesn't mean to manipulate or to lie... it just means to act less predictable, to adapt yourself if you realize that what you are doing is not working and that you care about that relationship enough.

Then once the relationship is stable, no need of strategies. There will be trust, and consistent love. But the very beginning is different.

Those who are not attractive and never had great success of course blame strategies cause they r desperate

ShaniFaye

what....the....fuck?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

Oh I see.. so be fake and play games in the beginning of the relationship so that time will pass.

strategy is implying manipulate. why not just be yourself and deal with reality as reality happens?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

shakran

Yes, and in getting to know you, assuming she has half a brain, she now thinks you're an obnoxious jerk. And so far you haven't given her any evidence to the contrary.

I'm starting to think that, rather than being as gloriously stupid as you seem to be trying to convince us you are, you're simply trolling to get a reaction. As such, I'm done.

dirtyrascal7

liam, I think you might fit in better over at pick-up-artist-forum.com or fastseduction.com... I'm sure those guys would love to hear about your cocky/funny theories and experiences.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

match000

some of their stories are cool but man have u seen some of their "pick-up videos" on youtube? absolutely ridiculously retarded! any girl who is worth it would NOT fall for that..

which makes me scared cuz alot of girls fall for it. lol

dirtyrascal7

No, I can't say I've watched any of their videos... but I agree with you that it's retarded. It's crazy enough that stuff works at all, let alone enough for people to make a living teaching it.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

liamfoster

guys, do not take things personal ok?
Cockiness attracts women, self confidence attracts women, neediness scares them away. period.

ShaniFaye

when you speak for "women" in such an utterly absurd way IM going to take it personally. I dont know what planet you've gotten your "relationship" education on but you need to ask for your money back

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

kurty[B]

and you're proving your self confident by creating a fake profile and pretending to be somebody else to entrap your girlfriend?

ShaniFaye

no, thats the cockiness part that he's been been mislead to believe attracts women

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

all those attract different kinds of women. you get to decide what kind you want to attract. duping women via a strategy sounds more like you've got other issues...

why not just be yourself and let that be the attraction.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

noodlebee

For one time, I actually agree with liamfoster, even if it is only partial. He is correct that there is at least some strategy in interaction. This is not just for relationships with significant others. It is also for your friends and family. The only reason it doesn't feel like "strategy" is because we are used to it so long that it turns into a natural habit.

When you first go date someone, you are more likely to dress nicely and be presentable. As time passes and the person knows and loves you more, you can relax yourself and go meet him/her even when you wear pyjamas.

And it is hard to say "be yourself". Some of you may treat different people in a different way. For example, I need to treat my family elders respectfully and I don't tell them things that might be taboo for them. But I can tell very personal things to my close friends and boyfriend. I talk to my co-workers in a respectful and friendly manner but more relaxed than with my family. All of that is part of myself but not the full "be yourself".

The reason why I say only partial agreement is because of what he said about the details of that strategy i.e. cockiness. The neediness issue, I also agree with him, is bad for attraction. To attract a person who is mature and will not flirt to the extent of the girl liamfoster talked about, self confidence and humour are good things to have. But if it goes to the extent of cockiness, that person might think it is for hiding insecurity, which is as bad as neediness.

liamfoster

thanks noodlebee and thanks to all of you.
I am actually learning some real life lessons here. I did learn i made a mistake on testing my girl, and I appreciate your advices on the matter.
On the other end, I realized we both have commitment problems, because we have always choosen unavailable partners in our pasts, in terms of distance, and we both got scared when the other one was getting too serious.

The ironic issue here is that after faking that online flirt with her, I realized what was she capable of doing, and considering that I love her,I started to become more needy, as I said, and become a chaser.
My chaser status might have been quite an unattractive feature for her because she started to back off.

Now I am braking patterns all the time when it's needed, and it works! it bloody works! If she comes to me with a negative attitude and wants to turn me down, I tell her something totally absurd and lovely, she cracks up, and she's not able to go back into her negative pattern no more.

These are the strategies I'm talking about, at the end it's a way to understand what's going on, what do to in order to create some more spice, positive tension and keep the relationship alive, if you really want it.

Cynthetiq - why not being ourselves from the beginning? Who are ourselves, when is it that we are really ourselves, isn't it that we all act differently with different people? There's a book called '1, nobody, 100000' and it talks about how different we are when we deal with different people and how those people see us with different lights. It's all very interesting.
Being ourself is a generalization, if you go to a job interview and you really want that job, then there is a level of adaptation of yours. You are still yourself but... you use a strategy.
If you couldn't care the less about that job, then what the heck... no strategy is needed, if I loose it, who cares?

I repeat, strategies are just for the starting part of a relationship, to prevent a premature end of a relationship for illogical reasons.

gsta

This topic is hilarious, poor guy.

Cynthetiq

I agree that first impressions are an important part of any relationship, but that is FIRST impression, not continued masking as to what you truly are. It's your life. It's your household you live in it as you see fit.

I cannot understand some of the friends that I have that are DIFFERENT people when they are with this girlfriend/wife/SO because they are acting in a way that is acceptable or presented to the other person. If you can't be yourself in your own house where can you be?

That said, one doesn't plan on a relationship lasting 5-10 years, it just happens one day at a time. Suddenly you look down and you find out you've hit another anniversary. Again, being yourself is the key to long lasting deep relationships, being fake is the key to short superficial short ones.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

match000

Does the one day by one day thing apply even when the girls say stuff like "I love you forever" and "I never want to leave you" and yada yada?

Cynthetiq

Yes, because one cannot account for illness, death, trauma, drama, etc. that life throws in. Those are words for today. I see that as why it is important to understand even in marriage since people get divorced.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

abaya

What, you think guys don't say this stuff? Cruise your local high school hallways and see which gender is saying this more often. How old are the women you are hearing this from, btw?

And yeah, the day-by-day stuff is the ONLY way, if you ask me. Cyn is right on the money. Here I am, after 3+ years with the same person, and I still have to remind myself that yeah, we did get married, and yeah, we did move to a foreign country together... jeez, when did that all happen?? It all goes by in a blur, if you're with the right person at the right time. One day at a time.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

match000

You are implying only immature ppl say this? Why can't mature ppl say it (wiht some understanding that it is for the present...)

21


So you both are saying that the immature girls/guys who say this are so lovestruck that they really believe it, while the mature girls/guys who say this know whats going on but say it anyways? I think I am overanalyzing it.. should it just be translated to "I LOVE YOU ALOT ALOT ALOT +++ "

Cynthetiq

Yes, translated to something like that.

I guess. I don't know. I don't say to my wife of 5 years,"I love you forever" or "I never want to leave you." I know it is how I feel at this moment and I cannot imagine that feeling changing at all, but I understand that it can.

From time to time I do say things like, "You know I really love you." just out of the blue for no reason after I've just found myself thinking about how much I enjoy her company or looking back at how much we've been through good and bad. I believe that is where the romance is, not in the candle light dinners, giving of flowers that is truly romantic. It is those things we are conditioned by books, music, film to believe are the romantic moments. I find it is in the silent moments of simple things like riding commuting together, microwaving popcorn and watching a favorite show or movie. It is remembering the smallest detail like a favorite she mentioned in passing that you can accommodate in some way. Romantic is what you make it.

Watching some of these senior high school kids get on bended knee to ask someone to the prom seems retarded to me. It again in my opinion how we're molded via media to "top" another person's method. Thinking towards the future, if they don't do something like this to propose, then what?

How realistic is it to say,"I'll never love another..." and then that person dies? You've left yourself no ability to love anyone again. It's not like I'm suggesting leaving an "out" clause to leave the relationship, but in essence I am for the sake of giving yourself the permission to move on from situations.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

abaya

Yeah, this is turning into a threadjack, but basically what I meant is that I remember hearing that kind of stuff maybe 10 years ago... like with my first boyfriend, in high school. Guess how long that relationship lasted? About two months. And honestly, really haven't heard/used it since.

I just don't see a need to use that kind of hyperbole in a stable, day-to-day relationship. Saying "I love you," sure, that's important. But exaggerating it into some overly romantic/dramatic thing that will last "forever an' ever an' ever, my widdle hoochykins..." Yeah, that's too much. I'm with Cyn (again) here, with the very subtle, small "romantic" things, that are often totally non-verbal... but communicate so much intimacy and honest love. That kind of stuff, on a day-to-day basis, is what keeps it going for years, decades...

Even the wedding vows between me and my husband didn't involve any usage of "forever" or "never." We promised to honor each other each day, for all the days that we are together... and hell, we do both hope that we'll be together for the rest of (one of) our lives. But why vow something that is pretty much impossible? People change, or people die. One or the other inevitably happens, in any relationship. Everyone has to deal with those consequences. There is no forever, for anyone or any couple.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

tenniels

Dude, how old are you? I'm just curious now, I don't recall reading it before. I am always curious about where age factors into things or if it does at all. This has been one of the most amusing/frustrating threads I have ever read. It's always enlightening to know just what kind of people are roaming around out there that you wouldn't be exposed to in your own life.

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pig

this thread is highly entertaining. i think liam should do a search for "plan9" - i think he will find much of the advice given there to be agreeable with his worldview on relationships.

__________________
You don't love me, you just love my piggy style