longbough

Well ...

Let's be fair.

If what he wants is a manipulative relationship full of insecurity, distrust and deceit where he will never tell her but always be suspicious of her every male friend or relation then he should stick around.

The OP wouldn't dare reveal his trap at first because she has every right to dump him on the spot. So he will remain with her but act like an ass because he thinks he's got one up on her. If she has any self respect she'll become more distant because who wants to be with a person who is brooding all the time? Maybe she'll try to find out what's bothering him - at first he'll say "nothing" but, inevitably, if she hasn't left him already he'll confront her with some lie that someone told him about her virtual flirtation (or something to that effect). Or he'll use his virtual alter-ego to hurt her feelings in order to either punish her and/or drive her to him. In either case he'll feel better about himself and proved how terrible his girlfriend is. Since he's whipped he won't want to leave anyway but at least he can feel clever about it.

If he tries to come clean (which is the least likely possibility, it seems) she'd probably leave him on the spot if she has any self-respect herself.

__________________
"I do believe that, where there is only a choice between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence. Thus when my eldest son asked me what he should have done, had he been present when I was almost fatally assaulted in 1908, whether he should have run away and seen me killed or whether he should have used his physical force which he could and wanted to use, and defended me, I told him that it was his duty to defend me even by using violence." - Mahatma Ghandi

abaya

Hear, hear. Let me know too, wouldja?

So when does this thread qualify as a "dogpile," btw?

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

The_Jazz

After reading this, I went back and read every word of this thread. Obviously, this is a bit of a hot-button topic now.

With only a couple of exceptions, my personal thought is that the responses in this thread have been realitively civil. I'd argue that the exceptions are more from frustration that the OP can't seem to understand the majority viewpoint than anything else, and therefore pretty justifiable.

There is no "report thread" button. However, that "report post" button calls our attention to the entire thread, especially if you ask us to look at in in the message feature that's a part of it.

If a mod says something that you think is inappropriate, you have a couple of choices. You can either PM the mod in question to discuss it, or you can drag the rest of us into the conversation with the report post button. Personally, I think that the latter option should only be used if one of us goes WAAAAAAY of the deep end, but that's just my opinion. You all have to figure out your own lines of demarcation, as always. I know I've received occassional PM's from members asking if I meant to use a particular word or phrase because it came off as harsh in their eyes.

When people start cyber-screaming, go beyond being brutally honest and start being brutal or when folks start making the thread more about forcing the OP to kowtow to the majority position than offering advice.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Lady Sage

You did what you did and I am sure you had a reason for it.

She, however, is a cheat. Let her meet the "fake you" in a public place and when she finds out its you just walk away.

I hope you teach her her lesson and you learn one as well.

Heres to my hope for better relationships for you in the future.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

shakran

I would tend to agree. There is no warm and fuzzy way to tell someone they're being a moron. We should keep in mind that this is an adult community. There are no 5 year olds here who's world might be shattered if you tell them they're being stupid. The OP's actions were gloriously stupid, and we told him so, clearly and directly. There's nothing whatsoever wrong with that. If the OP is going to get offended when he does something stupid and then is told that it was stupid, then the OP should not be asking for our opinions on the situation.

As to the comments that some hope this isn't what the TFP is becoming, I would hope the TFP is not becoming a haven for posts which favor asinine political correctness over the plain unvarnished truth.

There is no room in this thread for "not that there's anything wrong with that"
or "I understand where you're coming from." Those bits of verbal pablum might be fun to use on people because it means you don't have to worry about anyone ever getting offended, but in the end the result is that everyone degenerates into a selfish asshole because no one has the guts to tell them they're screwing up.

The OP screwed up. Bigtime. There's nothing wrong with telling him so, and in fact there's something very wrong with avoiding the issue or sugarcoating it.

Jinn

I had originally written up a post for this thread, but at this point I'm too disgusted with the wretched way that people are behaving.

Just because you THINK there isn't a way to respectfully disagree doesn't mean there ISN'T one. Way to give up on respect in favor of "lollerskates" and "roflcopters."

I'm inclined to defend the OP now, just because most everyone in this thread has lowered their decorum to the level of asshole.

I ask you to re-read your posts and say that you'd honestly speak the same way if the OP were a mod. Oh, you wouldn't? Gee, I wonder why not? Maybe because you'd actually treat them with respect?

I posted a thread where I said I was smarter than everyone else, and I posted another thread where I said that depressed people were all failures. Even then, I was treated more respectfully than this.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ShaniFaye

wouldnt matter to me who it was member/mod/admin ( I think analog will attest to that if he thinks back) I'd still have said the same thing. I'd have said the same thing if it were someone here that I have a "real life" relationship with too.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Jinn

I'm sorry, but I don't believe you.

I've never seen you reply in such a way, nor would I have a reason to expect you would. Especially the little signature at the end. You're talking as a mother would to a child (disrespectful), not as an adult would to an adult. I typically enjoy your responses, because you do treat others as adults.

That said, you weren't one of the particularly blatant offenders.

And I'm not talking about WK either, he always feigns assholery.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

shakran

Care to point us to where that happened in this thread? My browser must be malfunctioning, because I didn't see that.


Yes. Ask King. He and I got into a huge fight way back when because I didn't give a shit who he was or what his position of "authority" was. He said something that I felt was stupid, and I called it stupid. And guess what? I'm still here, no one ever banned me, and since King is a big boy instead of a 3 year old, he's still here too and doesn't appear to be too damaged by the incident.

But please do tell us how we are supposed to tell someone that they're being an idiot without hurting their feelings, unless we dance around the issue and don't actually get the message across that they're being an idiot.

Actually I don't remember the first one, but I seem to recall in the depressed thread that you were pretty soundly beaten up - and I believe I was in on it You just proved my point. You're still here, you didn't sulk away crying, you didn't shoot yourself, and ya know what else? You haven't made dipshit pronouncements like that since then either. Seems to me that being told you were being a jerk worked nicely.

liamfoster

JinnKai it's ok I don't blame them for getting all defensive, all point of views and advices are welcome.
What's bugging me is that I've read a few posts saying that I was here hoping for understanding and that I was trying to justify myself. The point is that I am not justifing my behavior nor i am not looking for understanding.

I only wanted opinions from human beings different than I.

Now, i do believe that each of us has its own reality, based on its own experience and perception of the world, and in fact my approach to life is pretty quantistic and deterministic, i.e. something is not what it is until we give importance to it. The Cat Paradox.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

Redlemon

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

abaya

I completely agree as well. However, my impression was (from another recent thread) that giving someone too many honest, unbiased opinions was considered "dogpiling," and hence my confusion. The difference between "brutal honesty" and plan ol' "brutal" (from Jazz's last post) seems very gray to me lately.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

RenaissanceII

AHEM "clears throat"
to bring this thread to it's original theme

Rupert Holmes The Pina Colada Song
http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~shuppr/lamusic/pina.htm

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
Anais Nin


I Wish You Well.

kurty[B]

I think everyone was agreed on the advice, except the OP. He came back with the same phrase. It's the rare case where someone asks advice from the masses, the masses agree, and the initial asker of advice does not heed the advice. Of course the masses are going to agree that person is of subpar intellect, they all agreed on something for once, and that one person chose to ignore it. That's like dressing like a clown with a bull-whip at a formal black-tie wedding.

ShaniFaye

you know, that kept running thru my head the entire time I was reading this yesterday lol

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

RenaissanceII

Kink-ay

__________________
And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
Anais Nin


I Wish You Well.

surferlove007

Amazing how much discussion over this...yea guys don't say mean things you'll get a permanent warning that doesn't go away. Check out mine....20%

I know its already been talked out a good bit but I'd like to view the positive and maybe she'll just dump him instead if she finds out what he's done.
I don't understand why people just can't be straight up with one another and be honest. Thats what works to best IMO.
Hopefully it gets resolved however.

But yea again, don't say rude comments or you get branded without warning.

match000

I actually don't mind getting beaten up on threads. Its part of being a man.. take it like a man. ahahahaha. it builds character..

spectre

Just a side note and not to threadjack, but it actually takes more than lightly rude comments. By the way, only you and the staff can see the 20%.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Pogue Mahone

Also quoted for truth. Coz it s true.

Congratulations, Liam, You're now in league with this guy:




/too much?

__________________
I still wave at the dots on the shore
And I still beat my head against the door
I still rage and wage my little war
I'm a shade and easy to ignore

Deltona Couple

OH....

MY.......

GOD!!!....

I finally read this thread today, and I cannot BELIEVE that you think you are even REMOTELY in the right here! NO MAN has the right to TEST their mate or potential mate. If you don't trust them, or feel like there is a trust issure, you TALK TO THEM! You don't TEST them. That is the fastest way to end any chance of a potential relationship. You now mistrust her. PERIOD. Even though you were TOTALLY in the wrong here. And you're analogy that the end justifies the means is ATROCIOUS! So I have this big bomb, I can drop it on Iraq and kill almost every terrorist in the country...I might kill a few innocent civilians, but hey, the end justifies the means right? I mean get real here! Ya know, I can forgive a lady for an indescresion with someone online, even if the flirtation was leading to an encounter, you STILL have no way to know that she would actually go through with it. but YOU however created an entire entrapment issue with a fake "person" for her to talk to. YOU lied initially to try and see if she would "fail" your little test. I say shame on you, and SHE deserves better than YOU for a mate.

I will now step off my soapbox!

__________________
"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison

ngdawg

Nope, shouldn't coddle, molly or otherwise. It just seems a bit ironic or something...can't think of the word...that on the one hand, we're pulled to the side and told to curb the bluntness of honesty but on the other, calling someone an 'idiot' is ok.
I agree and saw no regret-just said there 'might be'-generalized.
And maybe that's what's been getting everyone in a tither-he's actually defending his trickery! I also am of the opinion that it was done with an underlying thought that this girl would be too stupid to realize the trick, which really bothers me, more than the action itself. It's just so disrespectful....and I'd rather give her the benefit of the doubt and say she saw right through it and played it back, in which case, it was he who failed his own 'test'.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Acetylene

I did a stupid thing kind of similar to this once. Our marriage counsellor asked us each to write her an email listing 5 things we liked and 5 things we didn't like about each other.

My husband wrote his first and took a long time doing it. I got more and more insecure and finally, after he went to bed, I logged onto his email and read it.

I had reasons (I wanted to be prepared for the discussion tomorrow, I thought we were going to be going over them anyway so it wasn't like I was reading a secret, I was scared I'd get really upset and cry, etc.) but they weren't good enough.

I felt bad about it right away, but I felt even worse when it turned out I'd been wrong--we didn't go over them in the next meeting. So I really HAD violated his privacy, even worse than I thought. And worse yet, I was upset about some of what I'd read, but I couldn't say anything about it because it was MY FAULT that I knew about it.

It was like a vile worm to keep it a secret. I knew I had to tell him eventually but I tried to put it off. Finally I couldn't bear it anymore, especially since I had a feeling he might already know (he's not stupid).

So when I told him I apologized thoroughly. He was gracious and we discussed some of the things I had read that I was upset about. He DID already know and I was SO GLAD I told him. That was a year ago and we have gotten married and are happy.

I posted this very personal story to give you an example of how a real relationship works when someone does something stupid. If I'd tried to keep the secret he could never have trusted me and I could never have felt secure with myself. Now I can work on re-earning the trust I violated and eventually put my trespass behind me.

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There's no justice. There's just us.

kutulu

By far the best post of the thread. I can't believe how just about everyone here jumped on the OP and neglected to include the fact that she was totally willing to cheat on him. Nice. The trolling and personal attacks were the icing on the cake.

I guarandamntee that they wouldn't give the same reply to Halx of any of the mods. I guess the rules are different when someone is brand new to the community. Way to welcome the new ones.

ShaniFaye

I love how y'all are defending a guy thats admitted he's "tested" every girl he's called "girlfriend"...yeah...thats attractive behavior in a man.....not

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

ngdawg

I don't think they're defending him....just defending how they're responding because the consensus appears to be the OP was wrong in what he did.
Personally, I have been on the receiving end of online trickery that was not a joke and I went off on the bastard. There's simply no excuse for it.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

kutulu

I didn't say I agree with the methods but you fail to see that she took the bait quite easily. The entrapment was wrong but it DID validate his concerns - he thought she might be a cheating whore and as it turns out, she's a cheating whore! Regardless, there is some information you just won't get from people without using sneaky methods. How often do people reveal information that will destroy their relationship if they don't have to?

Anyways you are missing the point. It isn't that you people thought he was wrong, it was HOW you went about saying he was wrong.

Lady Sage

Thank you. Whats done is done and he did what he felt he needed to. I feel he has been hurt before and wants to make sure what he is getting into before he gives his heart. Ok, fine. If not, ok, fine. I have tested people I felt were dicking me over in the past. Not necessarily in this manner. If they passed they set my heart at ease and I told them congrats, I tested your trustworthiness, you passed! (Insert hug here.) If they failed? I walked away never to talk to them again. "Sage, I heard that you..." Yeah, I started that rumor. Funny huh!


There are plenty of times I feel strongly about a post and/or wish to call the poster everything but a child of god. Hello Mr. Back Button. Geez! Way to remember how everyone has had their not so stellar moments. Way to be cold to the fresh meat. Sometimes I am embarassed by the coldness here.

__________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open.
It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper
Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

Jinn

I, too, have been on the receiving end, and there is very little which makes me angrier than intentioned deceit like that.

But I don't think I would've felt the need to personally attack this poster and their intelligence to show them that it wasn't the best idea. It seems that everyone on this thread is upset because the OP didn't take their advice. That's ego, and the same posters on TFP who've taught me that ego gets you nowhere and you won't be able to convince people no matter how "right" you are are the same ones denigrating the OP.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

noodlebee

Am I too late for further comment? I left the thread after it seemed like people were yelling. Was I yelling too? I am a newbie so it is harder to tell the atmosphere of the forums and any "unwritten rules" of appropriate behavior. Please tell me if anything I said could be improved in tone and manner.

The main thing that bothered me was that liamfoster did not offer all information at the beginning. I also sensed that he was avoiding questions. For example, he still did not answer my question about setting proper rules and guidelines at the beginning of a relationship. Maybe I am wrong. It is hard to determine online except for words. I still feel it is a misunderstanding that the girl had more lenient guidelines in her mind for the relationship than liamfoster. This was why I advised him to tell everything. Sorry if that was unclear.

But regardless, my advice is just my advice. This is the same for other people who replied to the thread. Of course I already established that I disagree with him just like many other people but we are not his dictators. And even if he does follow our advice, I do not expect him to follow word for word because, no matter how much detail given, there will always be a "maybe" that will force him to improvise. He may also explicitly reject our advice but still follow some of it. It doesn't matter.

Despite the fact that I disagree with him, I still trust him to be able to improvise in some way that he feels is best. If it works, that is good. If not, that is just another life lesson. I think the most important thing about this thread is that he will have a good result. This was what I wanted when I offered my advice. If it is wrong and liamfoster tells me the result that his method worked better, then he can have a happy ending and I can also learn.

match000

well actually, didnt' feel like they were being egotistical, just very morally strong.

telekinetic

__________________
twisted no more

dirtyrascal7

I totally agree. Why is everyone being so damn judgemental?

twistedmosaic, thank you for sharing your story... i enjoyed reading it and I'm glad that you learned from your mistake.

__________________
"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past."

"Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

Im_not_bitter

Judging people by what they say/do/act/wear is not an epidemic. Its human nature.

I would like to quote from somewhere I dont remember but it should sum up alot "Some people will tell you lies so you can feel better about yourself, I will tell you the truth so you can better yourself" what alot of people are doing is telling him what he's doing is juvenile and its not how one should act in a relationship. Sure she took the bait and yes the majority of the comments where about his fualt but it have been said she's wrong too. I think what they are conveying (correct me if I'm wrong) is that just because she's rotten doesnt mean he have to be too, and that's the worst way to try and fine out. Also he's the one posting so they are just being truthful about his behavoir.

Its not a blame game. I'm sure if she post and ask if what she's doing is wrong since her preception on the guidlines of relationship was a little distorted,so she thought it was not wrong at the moment and what others are thinking like noodlebee's wonderment, everyone here would say she've done wrong, and focus on her behavoir as bad more then that of the guy.

__________________
Just because it's called common sense, doesn't mean it's a common trait

jvezyE

that sucks man. you should break up. trust can't be replaced.

tenniels

Oh wow, I can't believe I haven't seen this post until now. I guess I won't say much, even though we as members of TFP were asked for our opinions. I don't believe that anything said in here, from my viewpoint was out of line. I as many people here, would've responed with honesty and from the heart. I do this same to people who are in my life physically not just virtually. I think it would be very disrespectful to sugarcoat one's opinion just to "make nice" with the original poster just because he's new, or because it may not be what he or the other minority of folks who agree with him want to hear. I think when you are on a forum and ask for advice/opinions you should be prepared for responses, good and bad. So this guy's girlfriend potentially could have cheated. That sucks. Maybe she isn't trustworthy, maybe she's a bad girlfriend, maybe she's a horrible douchebag whore. Maybe not. The situation was a set up, so what can you take from it that is real? Nothing. I think setting someone up like that is extremely weird. I honestly believe in order be able to set one's SO (or actually SO's, since it's happened multiple times) requires a strange and sick thought process that I'm quite happily unable to indentify with (I find the thought process of getting to the point of setting up one's SO sick and strange, not the poster). Don't agree with what I just said? Good, different opinions is what makes life real and interesting. Let's not be affraid of keeping TFP honest for fear of being "mean". As I said, I think it would be completely disrespectful to the orginal poster to lie or sugar coat our responses just to be politically correct. Here's to honesty, in our forum AND in relationships.

__________________

Menoman

I don't think there is much defending here for him

I prefer to think it's more trying to defend his right to not be trolled and called childish names by a bunch of idiots.


(I'm not sure who is allowed to call people idiots and who isn't, so I just assume I am allowed to do it when I see people acting in a way I perceive to be idiotic)

__________________

tenniels

Yeah I don't believe I have trolled or called anyone any childish names.

What I don't understand is how if someone else finds something someone said to be for example moronic and says so, it's not okay. But when you find something someone has said to be idiotic it is okay for you to say so? What is the difference? Why is it any different for you to call someone idiotic or someone else to call the orginal poster moronic? Please do explain as I seem to be missing out on when it is okay for someone to say so and why it is okay for only certain people to do so (yourself)?? Not being sarcastic, just trying to understand how you've arrived at your conclusion that the people who said something negative about the original poster were wrong for doing so, but it's not wrong for you to call the people calling the poster idiotic. Thanks!

__________________

shakran

You need to learn the difference between defining an action and insulting a user. I told the OP to quit "playing idiot games" with his SO. I did not call him an idiot.

You on the other hand, despite admitting that you're referring to our actions ("acting in a way I perceive to be idiotic"), choose to hurl insults by actually calling us idiots.

Now, personally, I don't really care what you call me. I find it difficult to get upset over what some guy on the internet that I don't know and will never meet decides to call me. However, I would point out that you, in calling us idiots, are in violation of the TOS while the rest of us, in pointing out idiotic behavior, are not. With, of course, the exception of King who, frankly, being a mod, should follow the rules better and attack the behavior, not the person.

spectre

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head