thelifeandtimes

As many of you have read, the girl I am currently seeing is sick and I have made the decision to stay with her through that, but this is another issue, completely separate from one another. Last week I went out of town and she had went to a party and met a guy whom she claimed to be really nice and they ended up talking for most of the night. The following day she called me to ask me if she could go to the movies with him, I obliged due to the fact that she had thought other people would be going. Later on, I found out it was just her and him and that even if I would’ve told her she couldn’t go, she was going to go anyways. That same night she was with him all night and didn’t call me when she got home as she always had done before that night. She instead texted me saying she’d talk to me tomorrow because he and her best friend were over and they were watching a movie. For the last few days of my vacation, she did nothing but hang out with this guy going to party after party and talking about how they both connect on a mental level. Every time I would talk to her she’d either be with him, going out to meet him, or talking about him.

I finally get home and it is still the same. I figured maybe she was just trying to take her mind off of me being gone, but I was wrong. They hang out all the time and its really starting to wear at me for some reason. She would rather be going to parties with him than even inviting me to go along. If I say we should go do something at night, she always tells me she has plans with him. She has already told me she is physically attracted to him but that’s it. The reason she can talk to him is because he has been through the same problems that she had before and he understands her.

Maybe that’s what it is, but she doesn’t really talk to me about what’s on her mind anymore, what she’s thinking, feeling, and just random nonsense like we used to before I left. Its just really stressing me out because the way things are progressing between them, is the same way things progressed with my last girlfriend who met some random new guy which ended with her cheating on me. I am just over-thinking this and pinning my last relationship faults onto her, or should I be concerned? Maybe I am just nuts, but I just don’t know what I am doing anymore.

analog

...not for nothing, but why are you sticking by the side of a woman who so clearly is just latching on to you for the support? Start an honest conversation about what the hell is going on with her, and tell her you don't like being used. If she is smug or dismisses you, tell her to fuck off and move on with your life. I know you like her, but it sounds like she's using your affection as a crutch, knowing you'll be there for her no matter what- even while she goes DATING another guy.

This is highly suspect. Just get out while you maintain your sanity, if she can't offer some REAL reasoning, which i've not seen at all thus far from your decriptions.

monkeysugar

Several typed and deleted drafts later, my synopsis: I don't think you're over-thinking this and I do think you have plenty of valid reasons to be concerned. Maybe she just does like hanging out with the dude. But a sudden change like that.....I'd be wondering what's going on.

Ultimately, do you deserve to be treated the way you're being treated? Do you feel like the level of commitment and effort you're putting out there is being reciprocated, even in the most half-assed of ways?

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Vincentt

All the problems she claimed to have in the other thread, they were all just a way for her to 'get out' with out being mean.

Now you see the true reason, she has met another guy, and is now dating him.

Sorry man, but this looks like it went down a bad path.

Best to get prepaired to move on.

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doncalypso

My friend, I hate to sound harsh, but I think she's cheating on you and manipulating you. Dump her and move on to a better woman who's more deserving of your time, affection, and loyalty.

You sound like you're a good man, and I think you ought to spend your energy on a woman who's worth it and will reciprocate instead of take without any giving back.

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Key

that's really really shitty, sorry you're in that situation man. you definitely have cause for concern, it'd be pure ignorance to ignore it if she's in your face about it.

but first off, don't be her puppy dog. you're your own man, your own person, your own entity with its own life. don't sit around the house waiting by the phone while she's hanging out with some guy- go to the bars with your buddies, go to your own parties. make sure you have your own life- if your whole life is situated around her solely, warning flares should be going up and you should take steps to change that.

if she knows you're always going to be there, she has NO reason to not do anything she wants, and hang out with any guy she wants. start seeing yourself as the prize, not her. she should be grateful for time with you, and she won't be if you keep handing it out like bad hip hop club fliers. we take things that are given to us in abundance for granted, that's what she's doing, taking you for granted. i didn't read your other threads on any sickness, but i don't believe it would change the point.

now here's the tough love part .. face the fact if she doesn't want to hang out with you, there's nothing you can do to force her, just because she's "with" you doesn't mean she's lawbound to spend friday night with you on the couch. you're not married, and even if you were it wouldn't change the nature- she has to want to be with you. demonstrate higher value than this chump.

it sounds like she's holding you on the line while she tests the water with this guy. you're giving her a chance to build value on him, without losing any value from you. she's spending time with him to see how high his value will go. as soon as his value is higher than yours, you'll be on the streets. if he doens't build enough value .. she goes "see i told you nothing was going on" and dumps him (more likely she'll keep his number "as a friend" .. you know, for backup purposes) abd you're "safe". so from her position- why not give this new guy more time? she's not losing anything from you, in fact she's getting MORE attention from you. stop giving her that.

let her know you won't be her chump, and you don't be disrespected like that. if she breaks plans, CALL her on it and don't be like "ohh .. well i thought we had these plans like for weeks .. ok .. well that's fine if you want to break them .." it most certainly is NOT fine. it's a slippery slope, be careful. one day it's "can i go to the movies with him?", the next day it's "oh i forgot we had plans", the next it's "oh, i know we had plans, but i'm breaking them" and then it's "hey i'm having sex with him, can you bring us a box of condoms when you return my cds?" she'll keep pushing the boundaries until it's so ridiculous what you'll put up with she'll just break it off with you.

.. but that's just my opinion.

thelifeandtimes

Thank you everyone for your advice, especially Key. I've been talking with all of my friends about it and they all say the same thing, leave her and get out before the pain becomes to unbearable. I was in this exact situation not even 4 months ago, i just thought things would be different with her. She was everything I could really ask for when we first met, but as soon as I left and school let out, she completely changed on me. I called her out on it, and she attributes it to the fact that she is getting her life back from being in cosmetology school so long and that her life has been on hold and she is trying to live it again. I called bullshit but she continued to tell me that.

I'm really just not sure how to confront her about all of this. I don't want to accuse her of things only to be wrong and look like a dick, like she has made me out to be before when it first all happenend. Do i just come straight out and say "hey, I really don't trust this guy and i really don't like how much time you're spending with him, it makes me feel uneasy." The thing is is I know exactly how she will react. She will tell me I'm worrying about nothing and that he's just a friend she can talk to and that I'm being immature and unfair and placing my last relationships downfall onto her. I don't know, I am just getting really tired of dealing with this same thing time after time again.

guthmund

Then stop. If you don't respect yourself, you can be pretty sure that no one else is going to respect you either. Play the doormat if you must, but know that every relationship is going to follow a similar path until you decide to change it.

Have your chat, have a beer and then go find yourself a woman worth the effort because this one is going to be nothing but bad news.

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Moyaboy

If you want to get her attention while breaking it off without offending her. Then tell her that how you feel about the amount of time lost between you too. If she wants to change then you will have your clue and if not then you can say goodbye.

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cookmo

I am sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but at this point why does it matter if you offend her? She obviously hasn't been concerned with offending you.

You need to ask yourself what you getting out of this relationship. Look at her for who she is, not who you want her to be.

Chuckles

Thats a bad situation, with a bad ending my friend. Talk to her face to face, maybe talk to the fella, if she's still shady then just leave.

Key

if it's a repeating trend, you should be well-aware it's not coincidence.

we always feel like it's special, it's different, because we WANT to believe that. love, the other half, the ONE we're destined for. it uh, doesn't quite work like that despite what the movies and loves songs tell you. love's blind, you get too absorbed and you start turning a blind things to the obvious, and if you do see them you start rationalizing to cover them up. be careful and don't ever let alone convince you your happiness lies in their hands- it should lie in yours.

don't launch into a whole sob story with her, you said it yourself, you know how she'll react. here's the sub-text of what that diatribe would say: "i'm weak, and insecure. and i'm a wussy who would like to see you stop talking to him because i'm not confident in my abilities to defend against his advances." the problem is not THE GUY. there will always be THE GUY. if it wasn't this guy, it'll be another guy two weeks and two blocks down the road. if you're married, it'll be the guy in the office next to her. having her stop seeing the guy is not going to fix the root problem.

confront it, but in a masculine way. DO NOT get attached. she's probably seeing him because she's unfulfilled in some way with you, she's getting something from him you're not providing. though honestly depending on the girl she might just be doing it because she's the "i get bored in a relationship and like to meet new guys" in which case you don't want to be with her anyway.

"Look, I know what's going on. I know why you're hanging out with this guy. You're probably unhappy with something in the relationship, so let's either fix it or let's not waste each other's time."

If she wants to fix it, yay, if she doesn't, walk away. Don't call her every day begging her to hang out, if she's choosing time to hang out with him, just go kick it with your boys. If you don't have any, find some. She knows how to get ahold of you. "oh you're kickin' it with steve? alrite, you know where to find me."

Again, the goal here is to not be a chump, man. Keep that in mind. WHINING about some guy is being a chump. Don't whine, don't beg, be the first to throw down and call her on her bullshit. Her shit doesn't smell like roses, she's like every other chick in the world, no matter how hot/special/unqiue you may think she is.

MEAD

Like Key said, be prepared for this conversation. It would be best to be business-like even, you start tossing your emotions in there and you'll lose sight of your goal, which is to make YOU happier. You have to realize when you start sacraficing too much of yourself in a realtionship and when to stop. Clearly she doesn't appreciate or respect you. Just be single and get some confidence back that this chick is draining out of you every second you are with her.

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BigBen

You got played.

Played like a rented accordian during Oktoberfest.

Sucks to be you.

This is not the first time in human history that this has happened.

Live it, learn from it. Women will not respect you unless you respect yourself.

Let this girl know how you feel. I would not be as nice as to spare her feelings in this situation, but I hope you are a better person than I am.

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Lindy

It looks to me like you are being "used." Played like a cheap rented accordian is right. The question to ask is not "Why does she do whatever it is that she is doing?" The question to as yourself is "What am I doing in a relationship with a person who treats me like this?"
This battle is not worth fighting. You don't gain anything WORTHWHILE even if you win. Cut your losses by moving on now. At this point, you don't even owe her an explanation. That just let's her keep you on the string. Four months out of the life of a person your age is nothing.
Next time, get to know someone a little better before getting so deeply involved. That makes it easier to avoid the losers/users and end up in a healthy relationship.
Lindy

abaya

I didn't want to say this in your other thread, but I'll say it now. That whole being-sick thing... may god strike me down if I am wrong, but I called bullshit on her when I read your story. I know you said it's not related to this story, but if you ask me, it's ALL related (esp. in a relationship).

She isn't dying, though she is obviously struggling with many issues at once (I must say, I have gone through periods when I had all of those "illnesses," though I was anemic rather than hypoglycemic). She doesn't really have any life-threatening illnesses, at least not the kind I think of (AIDS, cancer, etc). She basically seems like a major attention whore.

I didn't post that, though, because I thought I was being rude and overly cynical.

Now, though, with her obviously seeing another guy right in front of you... I'm pretty damn sure she had your balls in a twist from the beginning. Run away.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

thespian86

Normally, since I have been in both situations, the accusing and being wrong and the letting someone obviously cheat on me and not call her out, i would say "Be honest, be straight, compromise." But, alas, today does not warrent that answer.

i'm aware of your last thread and felt instantly that she was perhaps struggling, but really using it as a crutch. In fact everything I read about her seems she builds crutch after crutch. You are, in fact, on of her larger ones. You seem like, to use a cliche, a nice guy. And that means not blowing up or blowing things out of perportion; atleast outside of your own head. But this is rediculous. She makes excuse after excuse, evading (quite horribly really) you and your honesty. That says one very loud thing to be; her lack of willingness to be honest is a sign that she is completely dishonest. Also the fact that she continues to treat you like dirt is a loud and clear call from upstairs telling you to no longer sit this game out.

Pick up the bat and take a swing... get out of it man.

not only is she putting you in an emotional funk but she is obviously controlling, dishonest,... Good God, i don't even want to go on! If I could translate a scream in your face on the pc I would.

FUCKING LEAVE! Seriously.

And that comes from the king of nice and naive. Leave dude... leave.

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sweetcha0s

I definetly agree with doncalypso

From my past expierence with women you reall jsut cant trust anyone

Especially with blatant signs like that

Just reading that makes me mad because i hate how women can be so decieving and manipulative to such wholehearted guys =(

Sorry pal

thelifeandtimes

Update for everyone. The random guy is now out of the picture. Over the weekend, he screwed over his best friend(also a friend of my girlfriend) by kissing his SO and ended up getting beat to hell causing him to go into the hospital. He calls my girlfriend looking for sympathy and what not, and she basically told him that what he did was too fucked up and she cant trust him and that she doenst want anything to do with his problems right now. He starts getting all creepy acting like they are dating saying things like "But what about the special relationship we have" and "I need you in my life" and other very obssesive comments. Then he continues to tell her he likes her and that she is the most amazing person he has ever met and asked her if there was any chance for her to break up with me for him. She flat out told him never and that she doesn't want to have anything to do with him whatsoever anymore. She told him that he was creeping her out and that she has no trust or respect for him at all and she was done with him and that he was insane for thinking anything would happen between them.

I didnt even bring it up to her that I didnt want her hanging out with him anymore. I was actually surprised when she told me all of this and actually witnessed it happen. But at the end of the night, all I could do was laugh at her and tell her I told you so. I told her that he didnt want to just be her friend, but she didnt listen. I still laugh but I am so releved. Not because this guy is out of the picture, but because of how she handled it. She didnt continue to put herself in the situation after he told her he liked her. I not only respect her more now, but trust her more as well. But thank you for all the advice everyone, I really did take it into consideration before all of this happened.

Bill O'Rights

I don't know Key all that well. But, I will say that he knows what he's talking about here.
Where the fuck were you 15 years ago, Key? I sure could've used you then.

Lifeandtimes, you are me...15 years ago. I mean right down to the "sickness". I was more than willing to accept whatever "scraps" she saw fit to toss in my direction. Grateful for any bit of positive attention that she would show me. Always just enough to keep me interested and hopeful...but never enough to be fulfilled.
Does that sound like me? Just...think about that for a moment.

Right now, as of this very moment, you are standing in the middle of a minefield. Be very careful with your next step. And I urge you...hard as it is (and I know that it's hard)...try to keep at least one objective eye open. It's the only chance you have. Trust me.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Spaz007

It's cool that shit went down that way but, I'm not sure that the problem is gone. I think you need to put your pride first. Don't let it happen agian, if she starts pushing you aside for another guy then it's time to make a decision.

1) I don't care and have pride, (the don't know, don't care).
2) Hey enjoy your time, and call me when your done (like in a few months).
3) Hey it was fun, but I'm out; enjoy your problems.

There is no reason why you can't be around with her if she is hanging out all the time with someone else. I'm sorry, I for one have no need to always be around someone I am seeing but if I ask to be there, I am going to be there. If there is a problem with it then something is not right. If she enjoys anothers company and feels that I am not compatible with her friends guy or girl then there is a problem. Now if it's a I always want to be there. Then it's an inscure problem which needs to be removed but if it's a hey i'm going to meet up tonight havent' hung out in a while and it's odd then concern should be had.

Daniel_

My initial response was to say "Walk Away".

I'm glad that you feel you've regained your trust in her, but (being cynical) can you TOTALLY be certain that she didn't do anything with him that counts as cheating, like letting him feel her up, or kissing at the cinema.

If you can be certain then great.

What happens next time she wants to go to the cinema with some stud? Do you gt asked (after all she's already said she'd have ignored you).

In my experience, guys only behave in the ofhand way she tells you he did once they got their cock wet.

Could be he got his ride, so he kicked her into touch, and she's putting a brave face on it.

Sorry.

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Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
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Key

on one hand, i'm glad he's out of the picture because it makes your position more comfortable. HOWEVER, on the other hand i'm worried that you'll take this as "oh everything's cool, situation over, happily ever after, etc. etc." and pretend the whole thing didn't happen. this statement makes me think you're in a worse position than before, so i'm kind of NOT glad he fucked it up.

why would you trust her more because of this? HE fucked it up, it's not like she went "oh .. he tried to put his arm around me so i knew he had other-than-just-friends-intentions so i drop kicked his ass." she'd done nothing to increase her credibility. imagine a man and a wife. the wife is totally hot for her guy-friend. the guy friend gets married to someone. wife goes "of course i never had feelings for him, i TOLD you i didn't like him, GEEZ. I TOL D YOU SO." it's easy for her to say, because technically she didn't do anything wrong- that doesn't mean her inner-feelings and motivations weren't in bad shape, she harbored intent. she's just damn grateful her inner-intentions weren't revealed, and due to circumstance, she never had to reveal them, so it's easy for her to claim they're not there. i might as well watch olympic gymnasts and go "uh yea, i can TOTALLY do that" - as long as i never have to prove it. hopefully you're following me here.

Bottom Line is this: the problem is still there. You got lucky. There's an analogy where you're in a river, and there's dozens of jagged rocks and nasty crap below. But you don't see them because your ship is sitting on the high water level. As the water level drops, you get to see more and more jagged rocks. Ideally you don't want any rocks. They say the only way to see them is when the water level's low - in this case you got a chance to see the rocks at the bottom and have an opportunity to smooth them over or remove them - or get the hell out of this particular river.

She's already demonstrated bad behavior. here's what i said a couple weeks ago BEFORE he got dropped from the picture: the problem is not THE GUY. there will always be THE GUY. if it wasn't this guy, it'll be another guy two weeks and two blocks down the road.

The problem is still there, you just have more time now to rectify it. Make sure it doesn't happen again. Make sure you let her know you won't be treated like second-rate crap. In a way, not being able to show her your spine in this last encounter actually hurt your position. Precedent has been set that if she goes out with some dude, and treats you as a sucker, as someone she hangs out when it's CONVENIENT and she's not hanging out with someone better, that you will take it in stride. "oh, he was coo with it before when i was hanging out with that one dude, he'll be fine with it if i hang out with this one." and by "hang out" i mean dating/cheating.

haha, sorry bro. though 15 years ago i would have been a huge sucker. i was a romantic nice guy, totally deluded and idealistic. i'm a lot more realistic (though it comes off as cynical) and know what's going on now. learning that the eternal, mystical, endlessly romantic and hollywoodized "love" does not exist is like the modern, adult version of discovering santa claus doesn't exist. it fucking sucks. and you want to believe. but dammit, it just doesn't. at least not in the form you thought of before.

Hell yes. Don't let love blind you, keep your eyes open. It's not as much fun, but neither's getting your heart trampled.


nail on the head.

everyone seems to have the right idea. she's demonstrated poor behavior toward you, and you had the chance to see the ugliness. What're you gonna do, ignore it?

Frosstbyte

Even after your epilogue, analog had it right with the first reply. Nothing has changed. She had you as a back up, the other guy didn't work out, you're still there as a back up.

People leave relationships for two reasons:
1) the opportunity cost of staying in the relationship is too high, i.e. the relationship is so bad that not being in a relationship is a better option
2) there's a better relationship available

This girl sounds clingy and manipulative and it's hard to be clingy and manipulative if you don't have a person to cling to, so she will never pick 1. That means SHE is only going to break it off when she has a sure thing available with someone she perceives as a better alternative to you. In this case, he didn't end up being better and she had a convenient excuse to get rid of him, so to speak.

A girl who acts like that is a girl who knows she has her claws in you and is free to peruse the menu at her leisure. I use "girl" here only because we're talking about a girl, but it could be easily generalized to any person. You're convenient, you're hooked, so if things don't work out, she's always got you. That doesn't mean she doesn't have her eyes looking elsewhere.

There's a reason everyone in this thread besides you has said to ditch her and find someone else. It's because she's no good. You got lucky. You didn't get burned this time, you will next time.

Sticky

Let me be cynical for a moment.
Why can't your girlfriend trust him anymore?
Why does she feel that what he did was fucked up?

Does she feel betrayed because he kissed some other girl. He picked another girl instead of her?

I don't know.

Just me being cynical.


Note: I did not read the other thread and I don't know any of the background. This can be taken in two ways
1) that I don't know enough of the background to comment, or
2) I have a fresh unbiased opinion

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Sticky The Stickman

gh0ti

Ohh man.. ohh man.. ohh man... while I haven't been in the exact same situation as you, I have been with a manipulative, attention whore... Unfortunatly she was my frist love... I was totally blind, I didn't want to listen to my friends, and I didn't want to listen to my instinct.

I see so many similarites in her actions, "you got to trust me", "I only want to have guy who are just friends, nothing will ever happen.." . blah blah blah. You know what? Men and Women can't "Just be friends" (debate it all you want, but your not going to change my mind on the subject). Someone ends up liking someone, its just how the world works.

"My adoptive mother sucks, feel sorry for me..." blah blah blah... I see now that the only thing wrong with her adoptive parents was that they spoiled her to death. I wanted to be there for her so I went along with it.

Your lucky man, it hasn't been too long. In my case, I almost got married. Come to find out later, that over the course of several months she fucked 2 of my friends. Two people who were close enough to be in my wedding court (if we had been married).

I say get the fuck out man... the more time you invest with her, the more she is going to cluster fuck your head. I lost 5 years to my X, don't let it happen to you.

Women who act the the world owes them something piss me off.....

</rant>

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I ain't often right but I've never been wrong
It seldom turns out the way it does in the song
Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right

Necrosis

Bingo.

She comes running back to you because they other guy kissed someone else? What does that say about her feelings toward him?

I'd go easy on the "trusting her again" part.

Toaster126

Maybe for you.

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Bill O'Rights

I have a lot of female friends. And, they are just that...'friends" And, while I may, and do, recognize exceptionally attractive attributes that they may posses...that doesn't mean that I necessarily want to run out and fuck them.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.