09-19-2008, 10:30 AM | #201 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
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Odd dynamics... what is the subtext of this recent comment from Bill Clinton?
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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo Last edited by ottopilot; 09-19-2008 at 10:33 AM.. |
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09-19-2008, 10:39 AM | #202 (permalink) |
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i don't think there is necessarily a subtext to that, otto. i think it's basically correct--it makes no sense to underestimate either palin, or the conservatives--and especially not the political machinery that the right has built. it's just a stupid way to play a game--underestimating your opponent is a sure way to loose.
thing is that i am not sure who the message is really directed at---i don't see any evidence from obama or biden--going by what they say that i've read--that indicates any such underestimation. i do think that the campaign has allowed itself to get sucked into the republican strategic terrain, or at least they had been allowing themselves to get pulled into it until this week. i think it's clearly true that alot of folk who write blogs underestimate palin, underestimate the right...but they just write blogs. at the moment, though, in this campaign universe, things seem in flux, as they are everywhere else (even amongst the red sox, from what i understand)....i see mc-cain trying to "get in front" of the financial catastrophe at the expense of being able to be even a little consistent, and obama being a bit more circumspect---but when i watch the nitwits on television who run these idiot "political" shows, they seem to think that being circumspect (waiting to talk much until it becomes a bit clear what's happening, so that what you say can be coherent) is a Problem. so who knows?
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09-19-2008, 11:01 AM | #203 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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09-19-2008, 11:22 AM | #204 (permalink) | ||
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo |
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09-19-2008, 11:51 AM | #205 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
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09-19-2008, 12:43 PM | #207 (permalink) | |
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09-19-2008, 01:15 PM | #208 (permalink) |
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Location: essex ma
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you know, this populist thing is getting out of hand in conservativeland.
all this "anti-intellectual" horseshit amounts to is a new bizarre form of officially sanctioned and directed bigotry from the right---now it's some amorphous "intellectual elite that fills the function of Persecuting Alien against which the Wholesome Right, now new and improved with a Monopoly on Practical Understanding, can construct itself. and so it follows that critical thinking is a characteristic of the Enemy and Competence a Problem--unless it is expressed in the form of whatever the conservative parameters of the moment say it should be. what's hilarious is that the folk pulling the strings behind the conservative media apparatus, the folk organizing this turn to poujadiste-style petit bourgeois resentment as political mode of living, probably graduated from the same schools as the Evil Others did. and many of the Captains of Industry at whose feet the right grovels so long as they are republicans might well have gone to these same schools as well. legacies, dontcha know, that constant bulkward against intellectual consistency in these Bad Bad Schools. but hey, no matter, what fun is thinking about that stuff when there's all the thrills and chills of good old Grouphate to be had... but you'd think that after 8 years of trafficking in this idiot demonization as a way of generating a sense of belonging for the reactionary set that the mechanism would be threadbare and its functions transparent. amazing.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
09-19-2008, 01:15 PM | #209 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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as much as i detest standardized testing, they are a huge indicator of college retention rates. Enough so that i wouldn't downplay their results.
and yes, they are often biased, etc, but not in any way against gwb. Problem solving also isn't really a great indicator of 'real' intelligence as much as creativity and resources. Also, i can't really think of too many problems bush seemed to 'understand' much less, 'solve'
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09-19-2008, 02:28 PM | #210 (permalink) | |
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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Einsteins from all political stripes are continuously f**king things up on a daily basis. So what is an intellectual in this context of proven incompetencies? And what good are they really? And what value should we place on the opninons of those so quick to issue a blanket intellectual seal of approval? Are the earthy folk not capable of intellectual excellence and critical thinking without attending all the right schools? It's irresponsible to discriminate because someone is an ivy-leager or an accomplished state-college grad... conservatives and liberals attend both. Perhaps we're witness to a growing populist revolt... except it's coming from the right instead of the left. It may not be justified, but the perception of old-school elitist failure is being promoted with great popularity. Is there a thread of truth to that perception? If so, is it an orchestrated over-reaction or justified?
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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo Last edited by ottopilot; 09-19-2008 at 02:45 PM.. |
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09-19-2008, 05:24 PM | #211 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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Unless you consider Limbaugh "ditto heads" (and other followers of similar [partisan infotainers) a growing populist revolt.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 09-19-2008 at 05:27 PM.. |
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09-19-2008, 05:33 PM | #212 (permalink) |
let me be clear
Location: Waddy Peytona
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No ditto-heads. Maybe it's a regional perspective... or perhaps it's just blissfully beneath the radar of those in denial or simply not paying attention?
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"It rubs the lotion on Buffy, Jodi and Mr. French's skin" - Uncle Bill from Buffalo |
09-20-2008, 05:11 AM | #215 (permalink) |
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The Palin selection has its benefits and its costs, which should be known:
One thought pushes fence-sitters to the left: Palin - St. Petersburg Times There is no populist revolt of any sort in the US. We have a top-down political structure run by and for elites like McCain, Thain, & Bush ostentatiously gesturing populist. This gesticulation takes place in a public media run by and for elites. The Palin selection was one of those gestures. |
09-20-2008, 07:55 AM | #216 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
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09-20-2008, 09:01 AM | #217 (permalink) |
Mad Philosopher
Location: Washington, DC
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I've said for month that I'm not going to trust the polls reliability until October. And even then, they're going to be shaky. One problem? They tend not to hit people without land lines, who are disproportionately young people. And young people disproportionately support Obama. Another is that current polls over-emphasize the effect of recent events. I think you can see this in McCain's polls numbers. They got a bump because of the Republican convention and the selection of a young, attractive, female V-P. As the novelty of these two events wears off, people are moving more towards where they were before the conventions. I think we are only starting to see what the real effect of Sarah Palin is going to be at the polls in November (which are, after all, the only ones that matter). Another problem is that it can be hard to accurate predict who is going to vote. So I wouldn't pay too much attention to polls if I were you.
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09-20-2008, 11:23 AM | #218 (permalink) | |
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Obama's Senate race did not test the race issue, but he had surprisingly wide support from conservatives and Christians. Kerry won a few counties -- Cook, Rock Island, Jackson (E. St. Louis), Alexander (Cairo), Champaign (barely), and around Quad Cities & Galesburg. In contrast, Obama did very well all over the state, including the suburbs of Chicago and downstate. I don't think it was just because he was running against Keyes. He probably would have beaten Ryan as well, even without the pervy divorce papers. (I think he was up 22% on Ryan when the race started.) So, the pattern of support for Obama is different than Jesse Jackson's or Bradley's -- or Kerry's for that matter. He does get votes from cities & industrial workers, but that's not really his base. |
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09-20-2008, 12:06 PM | #219 (permalink) | |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
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Interesting, hope you're right. I'm concerned. I spent most of my adult life living in rural Oregon. I worked out of the courthouse in two small county's. I remember in 1986 they tore down city hall and moved the offices into a remodeled courthouse. In both buildings they found KKK clothing and assorted items. People weren't shocked, in fact many found it funny and took them home as keep sakes. When Thomas was confirmed to the SCOTUS my neighbor, an honest to God WWII war hero, stood on his front porch and screamed to my other neighbor "I can't believe they put that nigger on the Supreme Court, the worlds gone to hell now!" For brief time after leaving my state job I drove truck, mainly because I had time and CDL. It was a part time, well paying, gig driving live crab from the Oregon coast to the San Fransisco bay area. The guy I drove truck for was a decent enough guy, hardest working 68yr I ever met. One day I went by their house to pick up my paycheck. They'd just come back from Vegas. I asked his wife how the trip went. She went on to explain they had to check out of the first casino because her husband went down to the lobby to buy a USA Today early the first morning and saw a group of black guys hanging out. I asked her if the new casino had black people staying there as well. "Yeah, but not as many." Oregon's a pretty blue state and this isn't the norm esp. in the larger cities and college towns. But in rural Oregon it most certainly can be an issue. I remember seeing a piece on the Daily Show asking people in West Virginia why they didn't vote for Obama their answers were exactly what I would have expected from some of my old neighbors and co-workers. There's a whole lot of rural out there in the US. In some key states these types of attitudes could make the difference.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
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09-20-2008, 05:14 PM | #221 (permalink) |
Living in a Warmer Insanity
Super Moderator
Location: Yucatan, Mexico
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Minnesota's a state I think this could be a problem. I think many states have the potential to be problematic for Obama. Ohio, Pennsylvania, Iowa, South Carolina, Wisconsin, Colorado- really any state where it's tight and there's a large percentage of rural white voters I believe it could be a serious problem. And no I'm calling all rural white people in the aforementioned states racist. I'm simply stating I believe racism is a real thing and if the vote is close the small percentage of people who are racist could prove to be the tipping point. Which would be really sad, IMHO.
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I used to drink to drown my sorrows, but the damned things have learned how to swim- Frida Kahlo Vice President Starkizzer Fan Club |
09-20-2008, 06:19 PM | #222 (permalink) | |
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Location: South Carolina
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YouTube - Palin's Nonsensical Answer On Domestic Energy
i love this woman, seriously. She is about as entertaining and watching gwb try to get the 'fool me once' quote right..... on topic: what the hell is she saying, honestly? i can't even make out what she's even trying to say and i've listened several times... oh, and from the nytimes: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/21/us...uGw&oref=login Quote:
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Live. Chris Last edited by Paq; 09-20-2008 at 07:00 PM.. |
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09-22-2008, 06:53 AM | #223 (permalink) | ||
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Location: Ventura County
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-----Added 22/9/2008 at 11 : 00 : 04----- Quote:
I think it important to be open to the differences and to be tolerant of what others bring to the table. Pseudo-intellectuals tend to be less tolerant than others in my opinion. It seem that it has to be their way and any opposing thought on a subject is summarily dismissed.
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"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers." Last edited by aceventura3; 09-22-2008 at 07:00 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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09-22-2008, 08:38 AM | #224 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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Palin's town charged women for rape exams - CNN.com
obscene: Quote:
wow, so her idea of rape: "ladies..you are assaulted..we charge you for the rape kit/exams..oh and you have to carry the baby. where did we find this woman...
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09-22-2008, 08:40 AM | #225 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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while it's emotionally charged and tied, this should be about fiscal respnosibility.
so then who pays for it? It obviously isn't free. and should I have to pay for it when someone lies like Tawana Brawley?
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
09-22-2008, 08:57 AM | #226 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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umm..
if it's proven lying, sure...but cmon, we are talking about regular people... i'm pretty sure she could afford it out of the 290 million + that she didn't return for the bridge to nowhere she said "please..thank you...oh, i'm embarrassed now, thanks but no thanks...but i'm keeping the money..." that buys a lot of rape kits ( and yes, i know..wrong timeframe, but it's still funny)
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09-22-2008, 09:04 AM | #227 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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There are systems in place to punish people for false accusations. We don't fuck over a victim just because there is an occasional liar. |
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09-22-2008, 10:11 AM | #228 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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Actually, there is mounting costs for all of these technologies, and yes, sometimes families are being charged with associated costs. Ambulances aren't necessarily free rides to the ER. There's a cost to them and they bill back depending on state and county. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying there's fiscacal accountability that is required. If you're saying it's to come from the tax base as a whole great, increase taxes accordingly. It hasn't been happening enough, there's not ever enough taxes being paid apparently to cover the costs of running things.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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09-22-2008, 10:18 AM | #229 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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umm....
i don't understand how charging someone for costs associated with a crime is fair. Some states are adding $15 onto a speeding ticket to cover the gas that the officer used to catch you....that actually makes more sense. This is simply, "you've been assauted, here is our bill for doing our jobs for which you pay taxes..." i can't find any way to justify this. Sure, if you're lying, you should pay for it and the fines that go along with it, but for the average person to go through that trauma, then receive a bill from the city....you've gotta be shitting me.
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09-22-2008, 10:24 AM | #230 (permalink) |
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There are more costs than just the police showing up.
Crime scene clean up (biohazards) aren't just cleaned up by your normal Molly Maids. It's a certified job which requires special skills and cleaners, and license from the state. Who pays for that? The person who wants the place cleaned up, not the city, not you, or me. Just like when the windows are broken due to fire, it's not me who picks up the tab. Cororner has a fee for picking up the body. and so forth....
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
09-22-2008, 10:43 AM | #231 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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This is for the tests performed on the woman who was raaaaaaaaped.
not on her house that was damaged or on her body that was carted away.... but on a woman who was assaulted physically and raaaaaped. lemme put it this way: 99.999999% of the country does not charge for it...alaska gets more earmarks per capita than anyone in the union...she raised taxes on oil companies, etc, and was able to give people an extra check from the alaska permanent fund.... they could afford it.
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Live. Chris |
09-22-2008, 10:50 AM | #232 (permalink) |
Junkie
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They actually estimated the costs for the rapekits at about 20k a year. That is half the cost of the SUV the city bought Mrs Palin. Also its way less than the millions they spent on a new indoor hockey stadium with heated seats.
Cynthetiq are you actually suggesting that victims should pay for the investigation? Do you see how doing this would lead to a system in which only the rich can have justice served? If you are poor then to bad.... |
09-22-2008, 10:52 AM | #233 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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When a suspected rape occurs the victim's body is a crime scene. The only difference is that the rape exam is done in a hospital. They aren't providing a service with your precious tax dollar, they are looking for evidence. Charging a victim for a rape kit is analogous to telling a homicide vics family that they'd love to analyze the blood spatter at their loved one's crime scene but they are going to charge you for it. Your comment about crime scene cleanup is completely irrelevant to the subject. |
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09-22-2008, 11:40 AM | #234 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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Psychology voting | Salon interesting article about why it is so hard to change someone's mind about a candidate....
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09-22-2008, 11:48 AM | #235 (permalink) | |||
Tilted Cat Head
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Location: Manhattan, NY
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I'm a person that believes simply in financial responsibility. If you don't have the funds for something, you can't just "wish" for money to appear. Once money comes from some place, then it's prudent to figure out how to best spend it. Quote:
But to come into a forum and then use an emotionally charged point of "RAAAAAAPE!!! she's charging for RAAAAAAPEE!" is practically trollish to illicit a response for how horrible an individual may be all because there could be an element of fiscal responsibility. Again, my point is about FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY. So far NO politicians seem to have any real handle on that, democrat or republican.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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09-22-2008, 12:14 PM | #236 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Can you identify another crime that the police department charged the victim to investigate? |
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09-22-2008, 12:25 PM | #237 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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no. that's not what i'm talking about, but you seem hell bent on that kind of response.
again, I'm only advocating for who pays for it. and yes, I can cry fiscal responsibilty. Collecting DNA and other things costs MONEY to collect, store, properly house and track. It isn't FREE. There's no FREE EVIDENCE Warehouse. Nor do the computers to store the infromation so that people can cross refrence from other crimes come for free from Dell.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
09-22-2008, 12:30 PM | #238 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: South Carolina
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that's not trollish, that's just my level of absurdity at charging someone for being raped. You can change it to charging the family of murder victims for doing the necessary testing. anything at all. I'm just shocked at "who is gonna pay for it' ...the taxpayer.. It's like insurance..everyone pays into a system and when it's needed, it SHOULD be there...this isn't that much different.
i don't get why it's even an issue of 'who would pay for it' as that just seems to go under 'things taxes pay for"
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Live. Chris |
09-22-2008, 12:36 PM | #239 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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When you pay lots of taxes, maybe at some point you aren't going to be so interested in paying even more taxes. I don't care about the rest of the folks out there after point, "an imaginary line in the sand," if you will. At some point, I don't want to pay more taxes and continue to get less goods and services. You may be interested in doing so, but I'm not.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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09-22-2008, 12:44 PM | #240 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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It seems to me that until there is a general understanding, clearly enunciated by the government in question (particularly at the local level) and the citizens it serves, that basic government services like police (and follow up criminal investigations) will be based on "fee for service" rather than general taxes, I just dont see any justification for charging potential crime victims.
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