frogza

Our doctor has told us that the only way we will ever have children of our own is through a process called ICSI. Basicly sperm are injected directly inside several eggs and then implanted in the woman once they are embryos. The process is $11,000 a shot with a success rate of about 30%. So my wife and I are trying to gather info and make an informed decision on what to do. We want kids and would like them to be our biological children but we are also open to adoption. The problem is that we don't have the money at this point to do both.

Have any of you been through either process? What tips would you give a first timer? Any info is appreciated as it will help us decide what to do.

ngdawg

I went through all that, including starting the adoption process. After 10 years(totally NOT normal time period) and countless other fertility treatments, my twins were conceived thru a GIFT.
First, check with your insurance. While they may not cover the actual implantation, they may cover everything else, including all the drugs. The fertility specialist you see knows how to list the medications, or should, so they are not questionable.
Second, check with the adoption agency to see if they will work with you while the procedure is taking place. One we dealt with would not, but another would, holding our application for one year after the birth of my kids. This won't or shouldn't require any large sum of money, at least with the initial application to adopt.
One final thing-is this doctor a fertility specialist? Please get one if not. OB-GYN's and GP's are not as knowledgeable.
Good luck. It's a rough ride, but well worth it, I think.

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frogza

We're going to one of the top fertility specialists in the country. Unfortunatly insurance won't cover any of it, medication or implantation. We have to go to California to go to one of the best places for ICSI going throught them raises our chances by a 5%. Since the process takes at least 4 days that also means airfare and hotel charges on top of the $11,000 for the procedure itself.

Thanks for the post, it helps to know we're not alone on this

cellophanedeity

Though I'm still too young to even consider having children soon, I am of the opinion that you should try to adopt.

I understand that the desire to have your own biological children is great, but if the procedures are so expensive and do not have high success rates, then perhaps it would be better for you to adopt.

On top of that, you'd be enhancing the life of someone who really needs to be loved right now. Adopting a child is one of those things that is humanitarian if done for the right reasons.

Either way, best of luck. I don't suspect that this will be the easiest of tasks!

lukethebandgeek

I concurr with cello. There are countless children both here in the U.S. and in other countries that need homes. Besides, there's always hope for some kind of miracle conception later on. On the bright side, you and your partner never have to deal with birth control.

Regardless of whichever choice you make, be sure you are making the choice for the right reasons.

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sexymama

I have 4 biological and 2 step-children. Although I did not adopt the step-children, I can say that I truly love them as much as I do my biological kids. You do not need blood to bond. For that reason, I support adoption. However, please be careful if you make that decision. As a teacher I see many families with children they did not expect due to drug and alcohol abuse of biological parents. Good luck!

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bad jane

i don't have children. but like you and your wife, the only possible way for me is if i go through fertility treatments (which is still a longshot) or if i adopt.

i have considered this quite a bit myself because i would love to have kids but the expense of each means i could likely only choose one or the other option. i've not reached a decision yet as i'm not ready to do either right now. perhaps i'll change my mind when the time comes, but my gut reaction is to say attempt fertility treatments.

adoption is a wonderful thing. i would love to adopt. had life gone as i intended when i started making plans at 5 years old, i'd have a couple kids of my own and adopt a couple more. i don't want my post to be mistaken for saying adoption is somehow inferior to having biological children. both will make you a parent and both are great options with their own rewards.

however, for me personally, part of having children is also going through the experience of the pregnancy. i want to have morning sickness. i want to crave pickles and ice cream. i want to watch my belly grow and my feet swell. i want to feel my child kicking inside me. as selfish as some find it, it's important to me.

i could become a parent through adoption. but a part of me would forever wonder about not having biological kids. would they have looked like me? would they have inherited my interests and abilities? would my daughter have ended up with huge feet like all the women on my mother's side? or would she have been short like the women on my father's side? would my son have gotten that smirk the men in my family seem to be born with? i think questions like these and the desire to experience pregnancy would follow me.

because of my particular problems, the window of opportunity is much smaller for biological children than it is for adoption. so for me, i think i would attempt the fertility treatments first. if that doesn't work, i would be heartbroken, but at least i would know i did everything possible. and then i would again save my money and try adoption.

i feel for you and your wife, it's an incredibly difficult choice that some of us have to make. i wish you the best in whatever you decide.

frogza

You've summed up the dilema perfectly. Thank you

analog

While a new baby may be the best gift you can receive- a good life, in a good home, with loving parents, is the greatest gift you can give. There are lots of children given up for adoption every day, and not nearly enough loving parents to go around. Biological or not, when you raise a child, that is your child. You are their parents. Every kid needs and deserves love, and that includes kids without parents, so go give them some.

bad jane

i'm not arguing against what you are saying, but as someone in a similar situation, these are the types of comments that hurt worse than my inability to conceive without medical intervention.

yes, lots of kids are available for adoption and people who adopt them and love them as their own are wonderful parents. i'm not disputing that in any way. kids want parents, i want kids--put us together and everyone should be happy, adoption is the answer.

but what makes that line of thinking painful, is that there is an underlying implication that there is something wrong with my wanting a biological child. people who don't need medical help to have a child aren't faced with this--no one asks why they'd go through the expense and hardships of pregnancy when they could have adopted a child instead. there's no implication that they are somehow not good people because they didn't adopt a child in need of parents. for those who choose fertility treatments, they are sometimes (and i'm not referring to this thread--i'm talking in general) considered selfish because they want to have a child rather than just raise a child.

adoption is a wonderful thing--i'm not disputing that. but so is having a biological child. it isn't like the only people choosing to have biological children are those who can't afford to adopt. both will make you a parent, but i don't believe they are the same. i'm not saying one is better than the other--it's a personal decision on which is right for the individual.

it's very easy for people who aren't faced with this to support adoption over fertility treatments. and as someone who didn't know until a few years ago that i was in this situation--i totally understand it. i remember when i didn't know and saying, no biggie if i can't have my own cause i can just adopt. but once you are faced with actually being in that situation, it isn't all that easy. some people choose to try fertility treatments, some choose to adopt and there are a few who opt to just not have children at all. but whatever route they choose, for most of them it is a difficult decision to make.

even with medical help, my body will only provide me the chance to have a child to a certain point in my life. i am limited not just by my bank account and medical miracles, but also by the same basic bodily processes all women are. adoption is more forgiving. if my body says i'm done at 40, i still have the option to adopt available to me.

that is why personally, i lean towards trying for a biological child first. i have more time to adopt than i do to conceive.

mr sticky

I think there is something very instinctual about wanting to procreate and spread your genes. Adoption is always an option, but you only have a biologically set time that you can safely have children. I think you should do what's in your heart, and damn the rest!

Luck and love,
mr sticky

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bad jane

I'm not sure anyone is saying that your wanting to conceive and have biological children is wrong. I think maybe they are encouraging adoption to save you from the potential heartache (and financial pitfalls) of the ICSI process. My wife's cousin has been through years and years of fertility options, all to no avail. They haven't considered adoption, though she and her husband are now in their late 30's. Times' a-runnin' out, if you know what I mean.

On the other hand, you could buck the odds and conceive on your first try. If it's something you feel strongly about, by all means explore all your options and see how to get it done. Just listen yo your fertility doctors and don't try to sugarcoat the odds.

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bad jane

i think in some cases, that's true. but not always. and even when it is true, i think some people aren't very sensitive to how their comments make others feel.

what you want most, as with any difficult process in life, is support from those around you. life is full of heartache and financial pitfalls--especially when there are kids involved lol

unless you have money to burn, you quickly learn what you are getting yourself into financially regarding fertility treatments. and while i personally haven't been through it yet, i know that it will hurt every time i try and don't get pregnant. i've watched others go through it and it is devestating.

people saying you should just adopt, there are kids needing parents blah blah blah--doesn't help. in some ways it makes it worse because it does imply you are selfish for not taking one of these children in. instead you are wasting time, money and emotion on having a biological child. this is especially true when these words of wisdom come from people who are capable of having children without help. a kid is a kid, regardless of how you come by it you are a parent and isn't that what you want? but that's not true--if it were, we wouldn't bother matching parents to newborns in the nursery. who cares what baby you are taking home, the important thing is you are taking one home, right?

when you say your cousin hasn't even considered adoption, what do you mean? just because she doesn't see it as an option for her, doesn't mean she hasn't considered it. i've had friends and family in the same situation. trying for years to have a child with nothing to show for it but a smaller bank account and lots of tears. some said they didn't consider adoption--but they did, they just rejected it. they didn't need to talk to agencies and fully explore it before knowing it wasn't something they wanted to do. adoption isn't for everyone, and that should be ok. but for some reason, there are people who don't see it that way. adoption may be the more logical choice for people who can't have kids on their own, but that doesn't mean it is always the right choice.

(this has strayed a bit from what the op was looking for, and i apologize for that. but i want to make it clear that i'm not advocating fertility treatments as the only right choice either--adoption is a wonderful option for many people. but just as having a child is a personal decision based on individual circumstances, so is the decision on how to go about it.)

raeanna74

From what I understand, multiple births are very common with fertility treatments and ICSI. One question then to ask is "Would you be prepared for twins or more?"

I just recently had my tubes tied at 31. I love my daughter, never had any thought of ending my pregnancy, but I HATED pregnancy. My body was miserable throughout pregnancy and I did NOT throw up from morning sickness - just nauseated the entire time. I enjoy children and if I ever changed my mind and wanted another child I would adopt rather than have my tubal reversed.

Hubby was adopted as well as his sister. They both had great lives growing up. They have both been lucky enough to meet their biological parents (they were infants at adoption) and seen how lucky they were to be adopted. Adoption can be a rough process but I've seen the rewards in more than one family.

Ultimately it can only come down to how much you want the child to be your's biologically. Because after they've been with your for 10-20 years it will not matter much at all how you became a family. ICSI as well as adoption can be hard on a marriage. You are hoping and waiting for a long time sometimes for SOMETHING to happen.

I wish you good luck whichever way you go.

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josie

Hey Frogza - I'm new here, but wanted to say hi and good luck to you in your attempts to have children. I have two children - one biological (my son) and one that we adopted (my daughter). Having had a biological child and having also adopted, I can honestly say that each is incredibly exciting and miraculous in its own way. Having said that, I know that I can only say that I would happily adopt again (instead of having another biological child) because I was able to conceive and bear a child. It was an experience I wanted to have- and I know I'd always wonder if I hadn't - but again, I loved the experiences I had in meeting my daughter and getting to know her as much as I loved the experience of having my son. Different - certainly - but each just as amazing as the other.
Whatever works out for you - it will be what is meant to be for your family. My daughter was meant to be my child, just as surely as my son was- I truly believe that. Either way - it's a beautiful thing. I wish you the best.

Gilda

My wife and I still aren't decided on whether to have children through in vitro insemination or adoption. Grace, though enthusiastic about being a parent, isn't quite as enthusiastic about being pregnant and giving birth, but we haven't decided yet. If I could have kids, the choice would be easy, as I have many of the same desires that Jane describes in her first post there.

I think we're leaning towards adoption at this point, but we're still not quite ready for having our own yet, having just gotten a teenager (my sister) through high school.

There are a ton of children available for adoption at any time, particularly if you're not picky about race.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck with it.

Gilda

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Spanxxx

I've seen this issue so much in the past few years just through my own friends.

My wife and I were lucky in that we decided we wanted to start "thinking about having kids and just let things happen if they happen" and within in 6 months of being off birth control, pop, she's pregnant. We waited a year and a half and realized we would love to have another child. Same thing, off the bc, then pop, another kid no problem.

I don't say all of that to be insensitive... so let me move on.

During all of that time, we had other friends who started trying to get pregnant around the same time my wife was pregnant with our first child. It took them more than a year and of course during that time, they started moving toward that whole fearful zone of "do we need to look into other methods yet" attitude.

I had another friend who started trying sometime after my first child, and is still trying now 3 years later. She's spent the last year or more doing fertility and has now decided to go with invitro (sp?).

We have another set of friends who were pregnant, the wife miscarried, bled out and nearly died on the table at the hospital and they had to remove her cervix. They adopted a beautiful little girl and got her from just after birth. Then, 2 years later, they adopted a baby boy and even got to be in the hospital at birth and they were checked into the hospital just as if they had had the baby. They brought the boy straight to them, and they went through everything new parents do during those first few hours even. Of course, the recovery was easier, but the rest pretty much was just like having your own kid. Watching the two of them now with their two children is such an amazing testimony for adoption to me. In fact, the two of them have been an inspiration to ....

Another couple we know who have been "trying" for years now and have gone through the fertilizations to no avail. Instead of taking the risk of the more serious (and costly) procedures, they have decided to go forward with adopting.


Bad Jane did a very good job with expressing the honest feelings of frustration and true emotion behind the decision I think. I believe you and your wife obviously have the desire to have a biological offspring and I think that is perfectly normal. Go for it. Adoption also has it wonderful rewards too and can be something that you can still do in the future should you choose to do so. It can also be expensive as well depending on what adoption path you choose, but the rewards are well worth it from every experience I've seen.

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vermin

Interesting thread.
My wife and I are looking forward to adopting a child in the next few months. We went through parenting classes in July (required in Arizona), passed the background checks, and are waiting to hear from some social workers about several older (5-9 year olds) children we found on the AdoptUSKids web site. We have one bio-brat who's 5, but the wife's diabetic and had her tube tied during the c-section because of the difficulties of pregnancy with diabetes.
It's my understanding that most of the kids up for adoption weren't given up, but removed from homes due to abuse, neglect, etc. I know there is a potential for trouble in adopting a troubled child, but I think it's worth the risk to try to give a good home to a kid who's life has been pretty fucked up 'til now.
I understand (frogza and bad jane's) desire for biological children and I support trying everything you can to have your own children. But it wouldn't hurt to give some thought to the possibility of helping a "neglectarino". (over 6,000 in the state of Arizona alone)

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ngdawg

Going thru all the years and drugs was worth what I have now and would do it again, albeit a bit faster to get the same results.
Only those who have tried and failed time after time can know what we as 'infertiles' go thru. Friends and family were afraid to tell us when they were expecting. One friend had had an abortion and was scared to tell me, thinking I'd get upset at her. The constant questions and 'advice', while done out of concern, but just showed ignorance, were exasperating.
I've had more people see my backside than you could imagine-co-workers, brother-in-law, friends' mothers who were nurses-all giving me shots month after month. Blood taken so much (visits were every other day while undergoing treatments) my veins collapsed.
I have adopted nephews-both brought home from the hospital after birth. Their parents didn't endure half of what we went through but they got their family quicker. So it's really a toss-up of choices-do as much as you can endure before stopping treatments? Or is having any kind of family enough and just adopt?
As stated, we started the adoption process while going through the fertility treatments. One agency wanted us to stop, but I refused. Another said they would hold our application for a year.
My twins were the result of what was then a new procedure where 5 eggs (of 15 taken) were tranferred to my one open fallopian tube, followed by (donated) sperm. The thinking was that fertilization would take place in its natural state and environment and in my case, it did. It was, as the doctor pointedly told me, my last chance before invitro with the remaining eggs-IF they survived the freezing.
This was our choice, MY choice and luckily, my insurance covered it. It's easy enough to tell someone 'just adopt', but, like Jane said, I wanted to feel the experience of having children and, although it got a little scary at times (ended up in bed most of the pregnancy due to complications), it was the best thing I have ever done in my life and was ready and willing to do it again.

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Poppinjay

I've been meaning to post here for a couple days rather than start a new thread on a similar topic.

We've tried fertility drugs for two years - no luck. Several visits to the fertility doctor yielded nothing. So within a month of moving, my SO went to a fertility doc in NOVA. Turns out, her thyroid had shut down. Her doc said all the symptoms were there and couldn't believe the previous doc didn't diagnose it.

It may make a difference that the previous doc is an old man, and the new one is a young woman.

Has anybody had that experience? Thyroid interfering with pregnancy?

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ngdawg

Supposedly, my mother did, Poppinjay. After a couple of years of trying to get pregnant, the doctor put her on some thyroid meds and I came to be. Odd though, because she was so thin, but whatever works....I am the oldest of four, but the only one that needed a boost

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frogza

We've decided to go with ICSI. What it came down to is as long as we're still young we might as well go for broke on having our own kids. If it doesn't work this time we'll start the adoption process and try to save up some money to try ICSI again later. Thanks for all the feedback and support.

ngdawg

I wish you all the best. Being young, you have time on your side and things will come together for you just as they are meant to be.

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