Zar

Could use some advice regarding a terrible situation. Last month I asked a beautiful woman whom I love dearly to marry me, and she said yes. We've been basking in the bliss of this wonderful turn of events since. But tonight we've learned that her brother has committed suicide. My fiancee just learned this a couple hours ago, and some family friends are taking her back home (we're both college students, albeit at different colleges). I'm going there tomorrow. It's just so tragic, her brother was a smart guy. His last xanga (a blog) entry, on sunday, was upbeat. And now my parents are going to meet my fiancee's parents for the first time at her brother's funeral.

I guess, basically, what I'm asking is, how do I help her deal with this? I want to support her in every way that I can, but I am at a loss. This entire situation doesn't make any sense. Neither of us are religious either, so I can't go that route. I want to be there for her in every way that I can, and I was just wondering if anyone had any advice. Thanks.

Jinn

The most important thing you can do is make sure that she doesn't blame herself for it. Suicide is inherently selfish, and she didn't cause it.

The rest of the grieving will mostly be done at her own volition.. it simply takes time -- so you have to be patient.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

onodrim

The best thing you can do really is to simply be there for her - when she needs a shoulder to cry on, when she needs to talk, when she needs to not talk. No matter what, just let her feel your love and support and that you'll be there. Sorry to hear about the situation, I hope you both recover and find peace again soon.

__________________
"The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there’s little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides"
-Carl Sagan

tiltedbc

To be or not to be. That is the question.

When my brother committed suicide, I was mad at him for years thinking it was a selfish act etc... Now I see it as a choice that he made in his own world. It wasn't to hurt the people around him but to escape from what he was going through.

We all die one day. It's a fact. Suicide is a way to control that event (even though it may seem like distorted logic to outsiders). My brother was happiest just before he died because he'd made that decision and, this might explain the last blog entry for your girlfriends brother.

ratbastid

Okay, I've been there and made some MAJOR mistakes while I was there. Learn from my example, please!

A little more than two years ago, lurkette's younger brother was hit by a car and killed. I had no idea how to support her or take care of her. I figured out how to support everyone BUT her pretty fast, but I made the mistake of expecting her to be over it on some specific timeline. When it didn't look like that was happening, I got worried and afraid that she would never come back to me, that we would never be us again, that I'd never have her attention again. I started to pout, complain, pressure her for attention, affection, sex, whatever I felt like I was missing. This didn't help. We're still dealing with the damage I did to our relationship during the months right after Josh's death.

I didn't know at the time that I was doing this--I didn't know I needed to keep any eye on myself for that sort of behavior. I learned a lot about myself, actually, and in that sense, it was a good thing. And you know what? Death changes things. You can't expect it to ever be exactly like it was. Some of those fears I had were right on the money.

The important thing is to know that what you're feeling in any particular moment is okay. That goes for her AND for you.

Grasshopper Green

Ratbastids whole post is good, but this is very good advice. I've been in your shoes, but kind of inverse. My brother committed suicide, and my husband had to deal with losing a friend as well as dealing with a wife losing her sibling. He did a great job. He didn't pressure me to do anything or feel anything within a certain time, as if grieving has a certain timeframe and after that, things go back to normal. It's been a little over a year, and things still aren't "normal" for us...it has forever altered how we live our lives. This will happen to your fiancee too.

Just be there for her. If she wants to talk, listen. If she needs to cry, share your shoulder. If she doesn't want to talk, patiently wait until she wants to, because she will want to eventually. It might not be tomorrow, or next week, or next month. Everyone grieves differently, there is no "right" way to do it. My thoughts are with you; it's a hard thing for family to deal with. Stay strong.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

abaya

I think the fact that you are already so willing to do anything, ask anything (on TFP), learn anything to help her... shows how much you are able to take care of her emotionally. Other people have given really good advice, esp. Ratbastid and Medusa, with negative/positive hindsight... the key seems to be empathy. Show her that you FEEL the same things she's feeling, the same grief... and even if you don't feel the same, then get in her shoes and feel it as much as you can. Cry with her, if you can... or just hold her, be there, be "emotionally present" for her while she cries. I dunno what else to say... but I think you've got a good foundation already. Let us know how it goes.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

analog

Man, I am really sorry for the loss, and this is a very tough situation...

Like everyone else has said, just be there for her...

Don't take any lack of attention personally. Time, time, time. Time will be your worst enemy now... as it will likely take a good deal of it for her to begin to heal...

I would not try and "cheer her up" with talk of the engagement and your marriage, unless she brings it up as a positive first. Since the two happened so close together, she may (at least for the time being) associate the two on the same timeline... think of one, reminded of the other.

Unless she asks, I wouldn't feel compelled to volunteer encouraging words like, "at least he's at peace now" or "it was his choice" or "we all have to go some time", things like that... most people do not want to hear it.

If I were in your shoes, the only words out of my mouth for a while would be, "I love you", unless she specifically asked me to talk, or asked questions. I would not volunteer conversation. When people are grieving, in my experience, the worst thing in the world is idle talk. Hold her tightly, be aware she may either be very needy for attention, or completely ignore you for a while... and whichever it is, you have to know it's needed, and not personal... you're the shoulder to cry on, the anchor, the comforting voice, the loving embrace.

Good luck, man.

martinguerre

line up your own support, the people you can go to and vent, so that you can be there for her more completely. taking care of yourself in this way means that you won't be a ticking time bomb while trying to get her back on her feet.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

fresnelly

In addition to the emotional support, there are a number of practical things you can do that will be very much appreciated as well.

When staying with her family, help out around the house as much as possible. Do the dishes, laundry, set and clear the table, screen phone calls, make snacks, help with meals, run errands, chauffer etc... Just do it quietly and unintrusively; without making a big deal of it.

These little tasks can be overwhelming and stressful when you're busy trying to greive and make sense of a tragedy. Life goes on and you can help them best by shouldering that burden for while.

When my wife's sister died in a senseless accident a few years ago, I took this role and I could immediately see the positive difference it made. It gave her family space and time to work through their anger and sorrow without the distraction of petty annoyances. It's a tangeable way to show you care beyond kindly platitudes.

This is good advice for helping someone through any extrordinary time of stress.

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

josie

My brother also committed suicide and I remember how incredibly important it felt to have my husband by my side through the entire thing. He was someone who knew and loved my brother and who knew how much I (and the rest of my family) loved my brother and how devastating this would be for all of us, and his presence and concern were so comforting to me and really the only thing that pulled me through.

I've always appreciated my husband talking with me about the wonderful things he remembers about my brother - laughing with me about funny memories-talking about what he loved about him - so that my brother is more than just a tragic figure that noone wants to mention because it makes everyone sad. It might take a while to get to this point, but it means a lot to me to have people remember my brother as the kind, funny, guy I knew and not just this doomed person who ended up committing suicide. When someone commits suicide there's a natural tendency to focus on that event- but the only way I was able to find any peace was to remember that the suicide is only how his life ended - it's not the sum total of who he was. I make a conscious effort not to allow all of my memories of my brother to be tainted by the sadness of his death.

I found myself being really careful about who I told about my brother's suicide because I didn't want him being judged (ie, being called selfish) or my family being judged (if we had loved him more, he wouldn't have done this). Neither of these things were true, and it just added to the hurt to hear those kind of things said, but your fiance and her family might not be in the best shape to defend their brother/son right now, so maybe you can step in and take on that role. You'd be amazed at the lack of sensitivity even the most well-meaning people can display at such a time - there are a lot of people out there who have really strong negative feelings about people who commit suicide and feel compelled to let others know what they think, even in the face of so much pain.

I was lucky in that I had a good relationship with my brother - so I didn't feel any guilt-as in, "maybe if I'd been closer to him he would have talked to me about it, etc"...I agree with the other poster who said that suicide is a compulsion for some people and that there probably isn't anything anyone could do or say to change their minds once they've decided to go forward with it. It'd be good to remind your fiance of this if she seems to take on responsibility for it in any way.

Suicide is devastatingly painful for a family - to this day, nothing has hurt me more than my brother's death -but it does get better - at least it did for me. I really thought I would never have any peace around thoughts of my brother ever again, but I have come to the point that I can think of him and smile remembering the good times we had and can at least partially accept that he is where he chose to be and has achieved some level of peace, which is what I believe is what he was trying to accomplish. I will always be sad that his life ended this way, but I can now accept that it was his choice.

I'm so sorry this has happened, and I will be thinking of you all.

Zar

Thank you so much for the advice all. I've only been able to check back here sporadically since last tuesday. I've just returned from my fiancee's home. I was struck by how many lives an event such as this affects. Hundreds came to the visitation, some of them people who'd never met Ryan (my fiancee's brother) in person, only through online contact. There are pages and pages of responses on the online entry of his obituary. From the very old to the very young, it will have an impact that is keenly felt for a long, long time.

Of course my fiancee's family is the most deeply affected. I myself did not know Ryan well, as I had only met him briefly on a small number of occasions. So I did the best I could to help my fiancee and her family, mostly in the way described above about doing little practical things around the house.

My fiancee is doing fairly well for herself, considering the situation. A large number of her friends have also been present, and we've all cried and talked together. She's back at school now, trying to get back into the swing of things a bit. Her house is a very sad place to be right now.

The more troublesome situation is with her parents, specifically her mother. She's a complete emotional wreck right now, which is entirely understandable. She's been crying virtually nonstop since it happened, and no one really knows how to help her. She goes from anger to despair to guilt at the drop of a hat. I suspect time will be the only thing that gives her any peace. We all just hope she can hang on long enough for that to happen.

I'm babbling somewhat here, it's been a long week, and I thought i'd give something of an update.

Zar

Ok, so some more problems are manifesting as time goes on.

My fiancee is back at school now, and as far as I can tell, she is suffering from some of the symptoms of depression (I've had some experience with depression myself). She has little to no motivation, is unable to concentrate, and is just generally feeling apathetic about life. I should add that this is completely unlike her normal personality; usually she's one of the most energetic people I've ever met. This is causing her to fall even farther behind in her schoolwork, adding to the feelings of helplessness.

I believe the death of her brother was definitely the trigger here, but I'm not certain that's the entire cause of this. Rather, this is more the straw that's breaking the camel's back. She was already under a lot of stress in school and such, and now everything's catching up to her.

I'm feeling somewhat helpless about this, as we're in different cities, except for visits on weekends. As I mentioned, I've had rather severe depressive episodes myself, so I am attempting to use my experience to help her in our daily communications. But I'm aware that when one is in a certain mindset, words can just sort of slide right off the surface, without having any real effect. That's the impression I've gotten from our last few conversations at least. This is disheartening to me, as in the past I've always been able to cheer her up if I put my mind to it.

She was already utilizing the university counseling services where she's at before all this trauma, and she's said she'll continue to go there now. I'm just wondering if there's anything else I can do to help her out other than give her time and support.

martinguerre

She needs to start talking to the dean of students/her profs/whoever does this at her school to talk about getting extensions or working around these problems.

When i went to college, i had no idea that deadlines could be moved...and nearly put myself in the ground trying to keep up during a bout of severe depression. I tried to not do it all the time, but a little flexibility can make a huge difference. It can be tough asking for help when you know yourself to be capable...but the simple fact is that without taking care of oneself, you're no good to anybody.

i know the trick about words...i've been frustrated when everything people said sounded trite...but i still don't know what wouldn't when it's my turn to be a consoler. I think its key that she knows that you're there for her, and want her to grieve as she needs to do so. It's tempting to manage symptoms...if she's angry to placate her, if she's sad to cheer her up...but it may be that she needs to be in that place right now. It can be scary, but letting people have the space to grieve a trauma like this is important.

best wishes with this...be sure to keep us updated.

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

genuinegirly

Wow. All I can say is you've got a lot on your plate.
Life doesn't always hand us the cards we want. Be there for her. Be strong yourself. Wish I had something more substantial to say.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

ratbastid

I'm going to say it again because it's so central to this question: It's important that she know that whatever she's feeling is okay. It's completly normal to be depressed and unfocussed and messed up after your brother dies. It's fine. Your ONLY JOB is to make sure she knows that. Well... there may also be logistical things to support her with (maybe you could talk to her Dean of Students and her professors for her or something). Keep an eye out for that sort of help you can provide, but mostly you're all about having her be okay with where she is.

When we can give ourselves the grace to just be wherever we are, in time we start to get the freedom to be somewhere else. When we fight where we are, we stick there.

It might sound a lot of different ways: "I shouldn't be this upset." "I'm a horrible person for being angry with him." "Oh my god, I just caught myself laughing. I must be completely heartless." No, she should BE upset, BE angry, go ahead and laugh. However she is IN THIS MOMENT is exactly how she should be in this moment. That's how she can tell how she should be: look and see how she is.

The corrolary to this (the lesson I didn't learn until late in the game) is that YOU have to be okay with where she is. You can't be trying to make her feel better or fix things for her--I guarantee that will only make it worse.