Phaenx

I don't quite feel like I'm working hard enough, I go to fail but they don't seem as dead as they should be at the end of the day, or sore enough the next day. My muscles tend to disagree with this idea, since I will lift to the point where they simply won't lift the weight anymore, and I do that more than once for each muscle.

I don't think it's that I'm lifting too much, I fail at about the 8th-10th (10 repetitions a set) rep of the 2nd and last set.

This makes me think that it's perhaps my technique, the motion or maybe the speed. Or maybe I just have super recovery powers? Either way, do you think it might be beneficial to see a personal trainer at my gym to take me through my routine?

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

bookerV

What are your goals? Are you trying to bulk or condition / tone?

If you find that you arent getting the results you want out of a workout and arent getting that sore feeling the next day then I would definitely recommend working out with a partner who has been training a while or even better going to see a personal trainer for a quick session to help you make some adjustments.

Nothing bugs me more than having a bad workout. If i'm not sore for the next 2 days after a workout I always feel a little let down. So I would definitely recommend seeing someone to help you get to a point where you are happy with your workouts.

__________________
"That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy."

Lionel Hutz

mcgub

How many exercises per muscle group are you doing? I like to do two per muscle group per workout. That's the only way i can get a good workout. For chest i do falt bench presses and incline bench presses. For back I do low pulley rows and lat pulldowns.

Phaenx

I do john stone's fatloss routine at the moment:

Monday: Stationary bike or Stair climber, 23 mins (HIIT)
Tuesday: Weight training: back & biceps; Stationary bike or Stair climber, 12 minutes (HIIT)
Wednesday: Stationary bike or Stair climber, 23 mins (HIIT); Abs (crunches/reverse crunches)
Thursday: Weight training: quads, calves, hamstrings; Stationary bike or Stair climber, 12 minutes (HIIT)
Friday: Stationary bike or Stair climber, 23 mins (HIIT)
Saturday: Weight training: pecs, delts, triceps; Stationary bike or Stair climber, 12 minutes (HIIT)
Sunday: Stationary bike or Stair climber, 23 mins (HIIT); Abs (crunches/reverse crunches)

Lifting, I do about 2-4 per muscle group. My chest for example, I do a chest press, incline, decline, and then weighted dips.

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

Bobaphat

Do you work out alone or with a partner? Having a spotter help you eek out a couple more reps per set might push you over the edge. I think in all likelihood, your body is probably getting used to your workout and knows how to handle it. Try some more variety, mix up your exercises, keep your body guessing. That always seems to help me when my body gets complacent

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--size matters not-- yoda

hannukah harry

you shouldn't have pain or soreness the next day. delayed onset muscle pain shouldn't happen once you've been lifting a few weeks, it's usually something that mainly beginners get. if you're sore the next day, usually it means you've done too much. "no pain, no gain" is BS. obviously you should be fatigued and tired after your workout, but the next day you should be fine.

my suggestion though would be to add one set to each exercise, since your not fatiguing on all three sets, consider the first set a warm-up and add another set to fatigue on the end.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

dimbulb

Well, are you seeing gains? If you're seeing gains, either in bulk or in strength, then you're definitely working hard enough.

I don't believe in the "no pain no gain" approach to working out. Its a nice feeling though, having slightly sore muscles, but its not neccessary to achieve gains.

nash

This is what I do if I want to feel sore:
After the last set I plan on doing for that exercise, go down 5 or 10 pounds and do that till failure (maybe 2-3 reps). Then go down 5 or 10 pounds and repeat. I went down to 10 lbs doing dumbbell curls. I'm sure I looked ridiculous but it sure felt good I'll do that maybe once or twice a week.

But then again, I'm in the process of restructuring my workouts so I dunno if I'll keep that up. Good luck in your workouts!

bookerV

I disagree with saying that you shouldnt feel sore the next day. You dont have to feel sore the next day to get gains, but being sore the next day is a great feeling. That way I KNOW that i've had a great workout. I KNOW that I'll have gains. I've been working out for a long time and I'm sore every time. I'm a big believer in mixing it up and keeping your body guessing.

nash is right on with the drop sets. Thats a great way to really hit the muscles hard. I do at least 1 exercise with drop sets every day. What I usually do is a warm up set 50% max weight. Then another normal set at about 85% max weight. Then a drop set starting at absolute max weight and going until failure then dropping the weight by about 20%. I will go down all the way to about 40% max weight. That will DEFINITELY leave you feeling sore the next day.

__________________
"That's why you're the judge and I'm the law-talking guy."

Lionel Hutz

jgp

If you want to really kill yourself, here are some tips. Try alternating your workout. First, I'm assuming you're trying to get big. Therefore, don't circuit train. Work 2-3 muscle groups a day. I.e. Chest and triceps- day 1, back and biceps-day 2, legs and misc-day 3. Next try varing your technique. Dorp sets work very well. Basically do your regular workout, at the end, when your dead, drop weight and do 10 reps, when you fail again, go down in weight. Do this about 2-3 times per exercise. And do 2-3 exercise per muscle group. I garuntee you'll be feeling it, the next day. Good luck.

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liz

cait987

Phaenx, this may sound totally crazy, but try lifting lighter.

I just started lifting again, and I know I can lift more but instead I tryed doing squats at 135 pounds instead of 185, but instead of rushing through the set trying to do as much as I can I went slow, kept an eye on my form and did everything I could to get the best workout possible.

Most people assume you get gains by doing the heaviest weight possible, but heres the thing, most people go max weight and then they tend to sacrafice form for that extra weight and in the end they are working less then they would originally.

Did a leg workout 2 days ago (Wednesday) and today I still cant walk because im so sore from the workout and my legs look like they were smashed to death and swollen because the muscle is still gigantic from the workout.

Thing is all I did was:
Back squats 95x8 135x6 135x6 and 145x6
Lunges 10 lb DB in each handx10 each leg 15 Lb DB in each hand 10x each leg 17.5 DB in each hand 10x each leg and then 15 Lb Db and I collapsed halfway through the set (I got a few odd looks from that one hehe)
Leg Straightners: forgot weight but I did like 5 sets of them I beleive

Pretty much what Im saying is, I lifted lighter then I ever did before, but I focused entirely on form to give myself the best workout possible instead of being a careless idiot and trying to lift more then I can and not even really doing anything but half of a squat movement.

Just try it one day personally, lift lifter but focus on form and perfect the form and see how much it burns in the morning after you focus on form instead of weight.

Phaenx

That sounds cool, I'm going to try it. Yesterday was chest tri and delts, and only my triceps are sore. I'll try lowering the weight too cait.

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

st33lr4t

first off soreness is not an indicator of muscle growth.

now what are your goals with your lifting routine? i see you mention a fat loss program. if you are indeed trying to shed some pounds and are on a reduced calorie intake then your workout should reflect this. since you will be taking in less calories your lifting routine should be for muscle maintenace and not growth. so you should be shooting for 8-12 reps.

if bulk is what you are shooting for then are you eating enough? and are you eating enough of the right stuff? you should also be shooting for heavy weight with reps in the 6-8 range.

get yourself a tape measure and try some different routines and see which one gives the best results. listen to your body.

Phaenx

I'm a young man, I've been able to shed body fat and build muscle at the same time. Been doing it for months now, the goal is to shed body fat, but I don't see the logic in skimping my lifting routine for no reason.

I want to make sure I'm doing it correctly, and soreness is a good indicator of whether or not you worked hard enough.

__________________
"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

hannukah harry

but it's really not. soreness can also be a sign that your overdoing it, which means no gains will be made, and your next workout could be worse then the previous one. as long as your able to increase the weight your working with everyother week or at a pace your happy with, then that should be your indication that improvements are being made.

oh yeah, soreness can also be a sign of improper lifting, which means you could actually be doing yourself some harm.

__________________
shabbat shalom, mother fucker! - the hebrew hammer

st33lr4t

you can read this but these guys dont really know anything...plus you all ready have your mind made up.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/henkin6yy.htm

dimbulb

Soreness is NOT an indicator that you've worked your muscle so that it will grow. It simply means that enough lactic acid has accumulated in your muscles.

Muscles grow through overload, and doing drop and pyramiding sets is probably not the best way to go about it. Why would a muscle grow just because you are doing lots of reps at 40% of your 1R max?? You could get super sore by doing 200 reps at 20%, and there is no way your muscles will grow. They'll have heck of a lot of endurance though.

Its hard to build both muscle and lose fat at the same time. Both muscle and fat are energy sources to the body, and if you are in a calorie deficit (which you have to be, to lose the fat), the body isn't very likely to gain in muscle. Think about it.... each pound of muscle mass burns a lot of calories than each pound of fat mass, even just by sitting still. If you're not getting enough calories, the body will not want to gain muscles.

It really depends on your goals. If you want to gain muscle mass rapidly, you will have to bulk.

It's might be possible to lose fat and make some minor muscle gains, but definitely your progress will be slower than if you bulked. Seeing that summer is just around the corner, it might not be a good idea.

I think increasing the reps and decreasing weight while cutting is probably not the best idea. You want to maintain your heavy lifts and weights to maintain your muscle mass while cutting. Perhaps reducing the number of sets might be helpful.

I'm happy with my current workout. Just added 10lbs to my squat this week, which was surprising, considering I didn't feel sore at all after my workout last week.

Iliftrocks

If yer just lookin for pain, hit yourself with a hammer, otherwise soreness isn't necessary. It will happen as you progress, but not as much as when you first started working out. Just keep adding weight as you go and you will achieve greatness. As to losing the fat, cutting back on calories, especially the simple carbs is all that ever worked for me.......

BTW, on one of the other boards I'm a member of, they have a place to put post your workouts, date/exersize/sets/reps/etc, so that others can see what you are doing and maybe post recommendations/remarks. It also helps you to keep up with your own progress.

Might be a good idea here.....

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."