almostaugust

Marriage? Whats your thoughts on it.

My relationship with my gf has lasted for almost 4 years and we are still going strong, one day we might even get married. Its really no big concern just now. However, i have noticed alot of my peers getting married, many of them are already over or on the rocks. Some of them have lasted for just a couple of months! Its such a freaking joke. It seems to me that people just love the title more than anything else, so consumeristic. Quite often in social situations i find these two minute noodles relationships capturing the attention of everyone (when rightly it should just be on me).
What does marriage mean nowdays anyway? I see people spending absoloute shitloads on wedding dresses, photographers, catering etc. Wasnt the meaning of the white dress to signify virginity and purity. It just seems such a show. my thoughts anyway.....

tecoyah

My wife and I got married after a year, in the back yard with a couple close friends. My mom actually married us on halloween as far as the legality goes, but we married ourselves months before that just by devoting ourselves to each other.....that was the real ceremony. I have only one secret to a happy marriage....more of a mantra really,,,,"no expectations=no dissapointment"

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Sledge

tacoyah, can you elaborate on your mantra? I'm curious about its implications.

Rodney

One key (not the only one) to a good marriage is knowing what you both want before you tie the knot; where you want to end up, what you want out of life, kids or not, financial security now versus later, the whole thing. When you're boyfriend or girlfriend, or even living together for a few years, these issues can be deferred, and most of them are. After all, there's been no firm, lifelong commitment. The problem comes when people segue from long-term relationship to marriage without talking out all these issues first. If you don't, there'll be trouble a few years down the line when one side wants things to be different while the other thinks that, because nothing was said, everything was settled.

I think that's why a lot of people who live together break up after getting married. They think that marriage is like living together but with a license. And a couple of years later, a lot of them find out that it's more complicated than that. Although, also more worthwhile, if you're up for it.

Jesus Pimp

I for some reason have this urge to get married and don't know why.

__________________
Never date anyone who doesn't make your dick hard.

homerhop

I posted a thread a while back, saying I was not married and still refered to her family as my in laws.
We have been together for the past 9 years and had never seen the need to get married.
I got a fair bit of disrespect off a few members for not showing my better half or her family "respect" because I have not married her.
You dont need to be married to have a successful relationship. Alot of people get married because they think hell we have been together x number of years we should do "the right thing".
I have seen 99% of my friends who have got married when they were young either cheat or are quiet miserable.
We got engaged last month because we both felt the time was right, but have not set a date yet. We have bought our first home and feel that it is more important to have our home finished as we want it, rather than spent the money on a wedding.
When people ask us about it we often tell them " you can't live in a ring, our house comes first". Both our families are 100% behind us and say we are doing it the right way.

__________________
its evolution baby

mb99usa

I agree with those that have said knowing where you both want to go in life is important. I've been married for almost 4 years now but we have been together for over 7. We lived together for almost 3 years before "tying the knot". In those 3 years we proved we could live together and used the time to discuss our futures. Other than some financial bumps we are extremely happy together.

__________________
So, what's your point?

It's not an attitude, it's a way of life.

skysooner

A successful marriage is built on similarities rather than differences. My wife and I agree on almost everything, and she understood early on that my career was going to require us to move a bunch. Luckily she is a teacher and can find work almost anywhere. You have to work this stuff out early so that it doesn't become an issue later on. In my case, the legal union (and the fact that I couldn't get out of it easily financially) is what kept me in it during a rough stretch around 5 years ago. If we had just been bf/gf, we might not have lasted out the bad time. Luckily we really learned a lot about living together and getting along during that time, and we are happier than ever now.

lurkette

Ratbastid and I have been together for 12 years, married for 8 of them. We don't agree on everything, we were young when we got married and didn't know exactly where we wanted to go. What we did know was that wherever we went, we wanted to go there together. We've both changed a lot over those 12 years, as you can imagine, and have been through a lot but what's been most important is that we've agreed to do whatever it takes to stay together. Sometimes that means making some sacrifices - e.g., giving up the freedom to just up and join the peace corps if you feel like it. But mostly it's allowed us to help each other grow in ways that are good for both of us. When he gets really involved in a project that takes him away from home a lot, he works on focusing more attention on us, and I work on being more independent and asking for what I want. When my brother died and I turned into an emotional zombie, he worked on not trying to fix me, and I worked on not stuffing my emotions and going numb. At any point, either one of us could have said "screw this, I'm outta here." But we didn't because we're committed to each other, and at the end of the day (and the beginning of the day, and the middle of the day) we still want to be with each other more than we want to each get our own way all the time. We've also been extremely self-aware and worked on a lot of bad communication and thought habits that are just bad in general but that could be REALLY bad in a relationship. I think a lot of divorces happen because people either married someone they don't even really love because it was safe or the next step or because the sex was great or whatever, or because they just don't know what else to do besides get divorced.

I don't think it's necessary to be married to have a healthy, lasting relationship. It adds an extra layer of "wait a minute" when you're feeling like bolting, but if you're committed and you say so, I don't think the stupid fluffy white ceremony and a stamp on your ass really makes a huge difference.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

skysooner

Amen, Lurkette.

You said it much better than I did, but it echoed my sentiment. My wife and I had problems after her mom died in her early 50s of cancer, and she just emotionally shut down. I didn't know how to deal with it, etc. We made it through it, and it made us much stronger.

ARTelevision

My thoughts on marriage are biased to the degree that my own marriage was nonsense.

Sus and mimi are no longer married either - they happened to marry the wrong people as many people do.

My thoughts on marriage are that I do not see any reason for it.

__________________
create evolution

tecoyah

Sledge- this may sound negative but is intended more as a reality check....in all relationships there is a certain amount of give and take, at one point one may need to give 80% of the effort and at another can only provide 20%...yet 100% of the relationship needs have to be met. I have found the resentment that generally leads to failure between couples has its roots in the expectations one has of the other to meet percentage quota.
This expectation is a product of the person who percieves it and NOT the person we expect it from. If the other person is incapable of meeting our expected percentage we find them lacking and begin the change how we feel about them, this is unfair to that person as it was our expectation of them that created the failure, not the actual performance of the individual.thus the mantra...no expectations- no dissapointment

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Kyo

Whether it is your fault or their fault depends on exactly what those expectations are. For instance, monagamy is implicit in a relationship - you each expect the other to love only each other (unless explicitly state and agreed to otherwise). If someone cheats on you, is it your fault that they were unable to 'live up to your expectations'? There are a lot of basic expectations that should be met by anyone.

And frankly, you have to have standards (ie, expectations of their behavior). If they don't meet them, you don't marry them. You have to make sure that they are good enough for you. Does that sound arrogant? Sure, but it's true. Everyone has their standards, and if the person doesn't meet them you can't possibly love them - you will always find them lacking and inferior. A relationship simply can't survive under those conditions.

__________________
Sure I have a heart; it's floating in a jar in my closet, along with my tonsils, my appendix, and all of the other useless organs I ripped out.

Sledge

I see. Thank you.

lurkette, I think, said pretty much the same thing in a few posts above. I think I agree with you both.

Kurl

Marriage is not only a commitment to your spouse , it is a commitment to God. If you dont believe in God, there is no reason to get married.

That being said, Im a Christian and to truely have your relationship blessed by God you must be married. I have been married for 4 years in June. We have small arguments and such but never BIG 'fights'. The reason why people cant stay married anymore is that the relationship is not based on God but off of the fruits of evil.

Cynthetiq

married... almost 2 years.

i'm with lurkette. any relationship takes work.

here's some legal food for thought:

family over comes "boyfriend/girlfriend status" in medical, financial, and legal recourse. meaning: you may not have ANY rights when it comes to living wills, estates, medical visitations or even 401k.

even having different last names has it's challenges, as she's not had to show the marriage certificate just yet, but it has made some bumps in the road for checking into hotels where she leaves me the key at the front desk.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

tecoyah

It is unfortunate (in my opinion) that anyone would feel the need to bring an individual god into marriage and intimate relationships. Let alone tell someone they should"not bother" to get married if they dont believe in the christian god. I do find it amazing the way religion can creap into almost any conversation, and never seems to simplify anything. sorry, dont mean to be rude.....Pagan and married

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

ImperviousRed

no expectations=no dissapointment - Thank you tecoyah

Rodney

Actually, if you want to go back to the roots, marriage is basically an alliance meant to pool and preserve the resources of two families. Each side brings some of the wealth of the family, and there are contracts to prevent one side from running off with all the loot. Makes sense, especially if the assets are farm land; with each generation, as each new person marries in, in theory the wealth grows greater (especially if the oldest son inherits most of the property, as was often customary).

Even today, that's a lot of what it's about. If two people pool their resources in a relationship, it helps for there to be rules that cover all eventualities -- divorce, incapacity, death, etc. You may think that religious types are the most fervent defenders of marriage, but they're not. It's the lawyers and accountants.

I was buying a house once with the woman I was living with (we married later). She had shit credit, so the mortgage was in my name even though she was paying her share of the payments and eventually caught me up on her share of the down. Anyway, I mentioned this to my accountant and a real estate lawyer while I was doing the deal, and they both broke out into a sweat (the accountant literally did -- a nervous guy) and _strongly_ urged me to get married. They had apparently been involved in lawsuits and forensic accounting with living-together couples who split up and then had to split property bought under informal arrangements like mine. "It can get really, really ugly," my sweating accountant said. The lawyer said, "Marriage is a package of rights and responsibilities that governs the affairs of two people. You can try to recreate it outside of marriage by a series of individual agreements, but there's always the potential for problems."

In sum: you may or may not believe in marriage; but if you're going to live with somebody and pool resources, you need protection. Marriage is one easy way (depending on the state, of course). With maybe a good prenup also, depending on the situation.

tecoyah

I would tend to agree that certain criteria must be met for a stable relationship, I have however, also found that to grow as an individual in this life nothing beats sacrifice,challenge,and pain.
In my opinion any relationship has two main benefits, companionship and the chance to teach and learn from a close association with another. While cheating is a little more pain than I personally would like to inflict or recieve, there are opportunities for growth in all experiences.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

lurkette

I have to disagree. Our marriage is not based in any kind of relationship to god. It's based in 1. our mutual desire to support and fulfill each other, and 2. a promise in front of our community to love and honor each other. I think it's a bit narrow-minded to insist that god has to be a part of every marriage.

I'm glad that you feel your relationship is blessed, but to insist that relationships that aren't marriages are somehow of lesser value, or that godlessness is behind divorce is extremely narrow-minded. I know many people who are not married who have beautiful, inspiring and long-lasting relationships; I know people who have marriages "blessed" by God that have long since ceased to be about love, but are about habit and expectations. And I know many atheists or agnostics who are married and who have honest, committed relationships.

Ratbastid and I have been married for 8 years, and were together before then for about 4. We have grown and shared and have an intimate and loving and truly committed relationship. God has never been a part of our relationship and I've never felt a lack because of it. I think relationships vary the way people's personalities and needs and desires vary, and to insist that there's one formula - marriage + God - that makes for successful relationships is pretty offensive.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

tikki

I doubt i will ever get married. Not that I wouldn't mind. I just highly doubt anyone could put up with my insanely unhealthy lifestyle of rarely sleeping, working myself to death, and constant mood swings.

If you get married. More power to you. Just don't have a kid and then divorce. I hate when that happens to a kid.

__________________
Take notice. Take interest. Take me with you.

Cynthetiq

I'm with lurkette. My relationship is with god and god alone, not me, my wife, and god. My wife, she has her own challenges with god and that's for her and doesn't include me.

God has nothing to say about our relationship; it has no place nor quarter. Each of us was raised under different religions, we both have our own paths that brought us away from those childhood beliefs.

While I like to eat certain foods and do certain things, it does not make it any more or less valid because god is or isn't a part of it.

While you may believe that, I respectfully disagree and have no place to understand how each individual religion can be right thus dooming a LARGE precentage of the married population to damnation just because they did not happen to be part of the the right "club."

As you can probably make cases for how "godless" marriages are based on the "fruits of evil" one can probably give examples of the perils and tribulations of "blessed" marriages of unhappy people who are staying together only because of fear of damnation.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ARTelevision

I am aware, of course, that there are some legal advantages to marriage. That's too bad, IMO. It would be a better world if all individuals were treated equally under the law.

__________________
create evolution

bermuDa

it's funny how young people are automatically considered more responsible when they get married. I actually think it's less responsible to make such a rash decision.

I think there should be a minimum number of years you should know/be with someone before you are qualified for matrimony. Too many people see it as just the next "level" in a relationship, but it's so much more than that. I think the high divorce rate in this country is because so many people fall in love and think marriage is the next logical step, then realize that they can't stand living together. People jump into marriage because they think it's the socially acceptable thing to do, and realize too late that it's not a decision to be made lightly. you can still love someone and not want to marry them.

As for myself, I dunno about marriage. One the one hand, I think it's a sham industry, commercialized to the highest degree. It's human emotion being exploited for the highest cash value (as a former employee of a wedding hall I have firsthand experience of this). On the other hand, I wish I could find someone I'd be comfortable with enough to get married, but I'd be with them for years before I'd plan on proposing. And I'd want to be sure I could support a family before I have one of my own.

__________________
I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

shaman

bermuDa, in most circumstances I agree with you, many people run into marraige without realistic expectations. It is work, it is hard sometimes. but it is wonderful.

My parents married after three months, I knew I was going to Marry my wife after 5 months. My parents have been married for 40 years. my wife and I have been together 7 years.

your other comments are great though, I used to work in a neighborhood where the third of the month was mothers day (welfare checks) being agle to support a family or even yourself at least is important.

bermuDa

hehe yeah I agree that you could know you want to marry someone sooner than several years... that's why i said "plan" instead of "consider"

but really, I'd want to get to know her completely before spending the rest of my life with her. I'd really rather not think of it as a trial and error situation, divorce should be a last resort.

__________________
I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

yellowgowild

"Marriage is the only adventure left open to a coward"
-I forget who said it.

jvwgtr

After experiences with a few really long term live-together relationships, I thought I knew what marriage was all about...or at thought I had a pretty good idea.
But marriage changes everything.
I don't know exactly how to describe it, but that little piece of paper does make a difference.
Of course, there are the legal issues, but there's also a more subtle societal acceptance you encounter. As if your relationship is now "legit" in the community's eyes. It's weird.

As for the wedding itself, you don't have to spend a fortune...my wife and I got married on a tall ship in Key West, wearing Hawaiian shirts and All-Stars, and it was great!
Don't delude yourself, though...even if you don't go for the formal hoopla, there's no such thing as a stress-free wedding.

It's worth it, though, in my opinion.

jay-g

I definitely want to get married eventually. When it feels right and more than good, I will ask her to spend the rest of her days with me. I want to have old fashion values and not get married and divorced over and over. I cant wait to start a new chapter of my life with the girl of my dreams

Johnny Rotten

My thoughts on marriage is that establishing and maintaining a healthy relationship is difficult enough without the obligation of the ring keeping two unhappy people together.

I know from first-hand experience that you can still stick with an unhappy arrangement for an unhealthy amount of time with or without a ring, but at least you don't get slapped with a stigma of failure.

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

tecoyah

stigma is brought in from outside a relationship, I would just assume ignore it. Also It takes alot of strength to leave a dead relationship,literally an act of courage. I look on my divorce as a success, as with all things in this life, we can only try. TRue failure is in the failure to act.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

sleepingbeauty

It's great to see all the different points on this matter. Marriage definetly changes how people treat you in your daily life, good or bad. It is however, a legal establishment, that piece of paper is not love or neccessarily as meaningful of a committment without it. I think people can get so caught up in "getting married" that they miss out on the more intimate pursuits of really knowing and connecting to someone.

txlovely

Marriage shows maturity. That you are willing to promise yourself unconditionally to another person because you love them that much. It takes a big person to enter into a an infinite union. I don't think that people who live together love each other any less than those who have gotten married, but I think marriage is just one more step up the ladder. No one ever said making a commitment is easy, but keep in mind how it's much easier to walk away when you aren't legally binding. Commitment is everything when you're thinking long-term.

__________________
Cruel words erode self-esteem like the ocean eats away the shore.

Cynthetiq

I know plenty of immature people who are married...

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

dragon2fire

marriage is about acepting


acepting some one for who they are with out question


this not mean not being willing to help someone who wants it it just means accepcting the prerson your married to no matter what

diddagirl

I would love to be married one day. I always pictured that for myself. Although the thought of devoting myself to just one person is very scary and intimidating, I think thats also what draws me to it.

__________________
"Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done."
-Matthew Arnold

Sledge

It's true that an "infinite union" is a big step to take, but I disagree that it's a display of maturity. Cynth said that many immature people are married. The logical corollary to that is: isn't it sometimes more mature to NOT get married? You can be in love with someone and enjoy the current state of your relationship with them, and still decide together that a permanent union, at least for the time being, would be a bad decision.