marine4582

My wife and I met 4 years ago and it has been wonderful. Everyone talks about us and how we are the perfect couple. A little over a month ago she had sex with another man. She went to another town I stayed home. I found out through facebook. It took her a couple days to tell me they had sex. She was extremely upset and remorsefull. I can tell she feels very bad about what she has done. She says she doesnt know why she even did it. She does have alot of issues of sexual abuse and things. Shes been open and honest I believe. After it felt like a new start for us we are starting counseling. She is working on her issues. Im just scared this will happen again and that she mite think im a push over. Just scared, confused, sick, . Need some friendly advce

genuinegirly

I really don't know what to say, other than you two have a long road ahead if you want to rebuild trust.

You say that she is seeing a counselor about her issues, but have you considered couples counseling? It could help you to understand her motivations behind the cheating. It will also show her that you care enough to proactively work on the relationship and keep something like this from happening again.

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Remixer

How I loathe when people don't adopt a zero-tolerance attitude to these kinds of things.

Her past may be a mitigating factor, but that does not excuse her act in any way, shape or form. The fact you are talking like this and looking forward to a future with her a mere month after it happened tells me a whole lot of things about you, the relationship dynamics and how you generally handle her.

Instead of drawing serious consequences, it looks a lot like you are simply trying to convince yourself and her that nothing will happen in the future. What were the circumstances in which she ended up fucking the other guy?

Basically, anything other than rape tells you that she didn't care enough to stay loyal to you. Cheating is not a "heat of the moment" thing. It's prolonged sexual activity involving touch, smell, kissing and, you're guessing it, fucking where one is fully aware the other person is not one's partner.

If she really had committed an unintentional mistake, at the VERY latest by the time her panties came off she should have stopped what was happening, as any truly loyal partner would do.

Besides, how on earth does her past connect at all with what happened? I realize most sexual abuse victims often suffer from depression, severe psychological problems, extreme mood swings, self-destructive behaviour and very, very low self-esteem. Should any of those aspects exist in your wife then there is all the more reason for you to be very aware of the risk that she will cheat again.

Maybe you were not treating her well lately, not paying enough attention to her, not listening to her worries and problems, or simply not good enough of a fuck for her; so she needed and found the company (arms, shoulders and penis) of another man. Motivation behind cheating hardly justifies any of it.

Yes, marine4582, I believe you easily forgive and forget, do not draw and implement serious consequences, and ipso facto are a complete push-over.

It should be obvious by now that I am a complete radical on these issues and do not tolerate any of the compassionate things some people like to say in these kinds of situations. Sorry for not being very friendly in my comment, marine.

Plan9

I've been cheated on before. It's very easy to adopt the silly zero tolerance thing when you're dating in college. It isn't so black and white when you're married (assuming you take the promises related to marriage seriously). My exwife cheated on me while I was away for work for a couple of months. I was furious but still wanted to work through it. I begged her to go to some kind of counseling with me so we could figure out what happened and rebuild a foundation of trust. I don't see playing hide-the-sausage as grounds for throwing a girl under the bus anymore. Maybe it is because I'm older now and see relationships differently. If you, as a couple, can address what she did wrong and accept it as a speed bump in your marriage, you might be able to survive. You can't hold anything back, though. Any resentment or feelings that aren't addressed immediately will become giant throbbing cysts in your soul, robbing you of your ability to trust your partner. Don't carry knives in your back, man. Pull them out and deal with the person in one way or another.

...or...

As our beloved World's King is wont to declare: "Heal thyself, then kill the bitch."

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UnclearContent

Two possibilities:
1. There were serious relationship problems that weren't being addressed.
2. She's not wired to be faithful.

If 1, why weren't the problems being addressed? Was it something you realized but ignored, or something only she felt? Are these problems correctable?

If 2, do you really want to stay with her? If your relationship was going well and she cheated, how likely will it happen again if times are tough?

Is this fixable? Maybe. You have to ask yourself, though: do I want to fix it?

Edit: As Plan9n said, be open about everything. If you're going to fix it, you better not leave any emotion un-dealt with. Those will snow ball if not addressed.

Remixer

You may call zero-tolerance on this issue silly, but I'd wager it hugely depends on how much one values and prioritizes loyalty. Age has nothing to do with any of it, but I can see how time made you succumb and adopt a more "reasonable" approach.

I suppose being loyal and honest to your partner is not part of the marriage vows. Your partner doesn't take them seriously, why are you? What is the meaning of one-sided fulfillment of the promises? Under the pretense of maturity, why is the responsibility, acceptance and forgiveness of the misdeed the duty of the other partner?

There isn't any worth to it and I wholly disagree on the notion that marriage requires you to throw out your values in order to make it work and be "mature" about it.

It may simply be the generation-gap speaking.

Plan9

Because people make mistakes; because people have flaws. My flaw is that I love folding my socks. My exwife's flaw was screwing some other dude while I was gone. I don't have to accept the behavior. I have to figure out whether or not I can accept the person. It's that easy.

My age is largely irrelevant. I think maybe my occupation has made me more lenient to these type of emo transgressions. I would probably be okay with a more open relationship. I'm not married and shit, I'm gone for months at a time. Modern women don't dig that. They're not property.

Why is it the job of the non-cheating partner to be the bigger person? It isn't. You can totally be an asshole. I've done that, too. I've threatened legal action, I've stormed out apartments with everything I own in trash bags, I've said some real shitty things. Offense as defense. It didn't make me feel better in the long run. And it didn't help me get through my problems with that partner. It was wrong. And not just to her. To me, too.

It's been years now and I quite often I go to bed regretting those choices. Not just because I miss the person, but because I am ashamed that, in the face of adversity, I became a scared junk yard dog. There is no honor in that. I didn't need to be that way. It was a huge learning point for me.

This isn't my therapy session, but I hope the example makes sense for those that might want to get something out of it.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

KirStang

I don't think it's simply a generation gap. Zero tolerance tends to be an idiotic concept from the get go (like...zero tolerance for butterknives in primary school).

When you're young and in college and surrounded by lithe co-eds it's easy to practice zero tolerance. In contrast, when you get older and have invested significant time, money, emotions, etc. etc. in to building a marriage, infidelity may warrant further investigation prior to calling it quits.

With respect to OP, I think both Plan9 and Unclear Content laid it out pretty well for you. The infidelity may be a symptom of marital problems. On the other hand, she could just love to screw new guys. If that's the case, don't let yourself be the next one to get screwed.

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Remixer

I don't disagree with the types of relationships out there. It is both partners' decision how their relationship goes ahead.

However, the above implies mutual consent. Cheating doesn't bear that characteristic. What you said apparently signifies that you were able to accept your ex-wife's flaw of being entirely dishonest and disloyal to you.

It all brings me back to my initial statement:

How I loathe when people don't adopt a zero-tolerance attitude to these kinds of things.

---------- Post added at 10:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:54 PM ----------

Disagree. I accept that for most those are reasons to reconsider thoroughly, but not for me. EDIT: If I were to be cheated on, I'd investigate the reasons but only for my own knowledge's sake, not to rebuild with that person. I've ended a long-term relationship, which also happened to be my first love, right after I found out I was lied to. Feel free to draw your own conclusions on me from that.

Then again, I probably speak from a position of solitude on many issues.

Plan9

Well, if you haven't been married and your dating experience consists of an expansion pack to The Sims, yeah... you've got a lot to learn.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Remixer

Guess we agree to disagree.

chinese crested

Is trust still there op? Certainly agree with the idea that if you are staying together, you need to speak up and vent or stuff will fester. I suppose it depends on if you still feel you have trust. I hope she was smart enough not to bring you back the clap.
I dont think it matters what others think of you as a 'perfect couple' - theres lots of places look pretty on a postcard, but living in them isnt the same as imagination.

Ourcrazymodern?

marine4582, without further indication of your circumstances. Do you love her, perfect couple aside? Do you think you own her? Do you know the other guy? Maybe you should talk to him; sometimes that's easier. I don't know how violent you are, but I'm told that fisticuffs can settle things. Don't dump her unless you want to, but the truth about your non-"cheating" beliefs should be clearly communicated. I believe the concept of cheating implies ownership, which I defy. You sound to me like a nice guy. Don't hurt her in return.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

KirStang

It's not so much ownership as an implied covenant of good faith in marriage.

If custom dictates that marriage usually entails an implied term of fidelity, then, unless expressly disclaimed, couples are entitled to expect fidelity from their spouse.

You can go fuck 30 porn stars and be part of a Swingers group but that's not the norm. If works for you, good on you. But don't force that down another person's throat.

I agree about the physical violence part, though. Just pick up a hobby instead.

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cj2112

I have been married, twice. I have NEVER cheated, not on a girlfriend, not on a spouse. I don't care how bad things are, cheating is absolutely never ok. Granted, I have been cheated on by every single female that I have had a significant relationship with, save one...maybe. Yeah, I'm a bit bitter. Cheat on me, and we're done. No forgiveness, no second chance, I don't even care how you try to make it ok. It's an absolute deal breaker.

My own experience is if she cheats once, she WILL cheat again. YMMV.

Remixer

Plan9, please tell cj2112 about the silly zero-tolerance thing used only by college kids.

Plan9

Ya know, I was going to... but I'll just let Rick do my talking for me:


...

Remixer,

I get your perspective. I do. The irony is that I was just like you when I started up here at TFP. "Fuck women, cheaters be cheatin'!" So maybe those of us that have been through the meatgrinder a few times are just acquiescing. Or maybe we're wise and zen and shit... maybe we're just tired. I mean, new relationships are such a pain in the ass. Conversations that basically consist of reading your resume for four hours. Comparing hobbies to see if you'll spend most of your non-chore time in the same room. Figuring out how to share the bathroom. Redundant appliances. Holding farts for the first three dates. After this relationship? I'm pretty sure I'm going to be such a callous asshole that only my money and awesome oral skills will interest women.

And here's your motivational poster quote of the day:

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

marine4582

This guy started texting her and she told him to fuck off at first but he kept fucking with her. Then finailly she gave in. She had sex with him once and they talked to him over the phone and broke it off a week later. Im pissed at so many levels she didnt take her wedding ring off. After they fucked she said she was hysterical and crying he took off and left my wife with some guy she didnt know cause she wouldnt give him a ride home. I believe what shes saying its just hard to know what happened. It feels like someone robbed my house and took the most valuable thing I have. I love her more then life its self. She wants to work it out and I want the same thing we have everything in common, we also love each other. I usually do adopt a zero policy on cheating. But I also believe in my wedding vows for better or worse, not just when its conveniant. I also told her this is her one and only chance. I cant imagine being without her.

dlish

you told her that this is her one and only chance?...but you cant stand being without her...

excuse me, but thats a recipe for disaster.

you're not going to learn until you get hurt again. If you believe all the fluff she's been throwing, and all the vague scenarios she's be conjuring up for you, thats fine. Just remember what i said.. you're going to get hurt again. I hope im wrong, i really do, but on one hand you tell her its her last chance, and on the other she knows you cant live without her. She'll do it again because the puppy always comes back to its owner. I can totally see who runs the joint, and sadly i dont think its you.

Im not implying that you should leave her, but the way you're approaching the reconciliation process is totally whacked out. Good luck bud.

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- Filthy

Remixer

Completely agreed with dlish.

Also: She gave in and had sex with him "once" (like it really matters how many times)? Listen to yourself, mate. You say it like it's a mitigating factor that he TALKED her into STOPPING HER RESISTANCE TO HIS ADVANCES and to cheat on you. I mean, what the fuck brah? At least she should have come up with binge drinking or blackmail, cause her guard should be stronger than simply being talked to. Your dlish-coined puppy attitude will only cause you the same situation, just a bit later than right now.

EDIT: It beggars belief that she was so weak in her loyalty towards her husband. Really, even a "heat of the passion" argument would come across better because what you said simply means either she thought it all through and still went ahead with it, or it takes a guy a couple of weeks of putting things in her head to spread her legs for him. Do you really believe she is in any state or position where, even with partner counseling, you can be anywhere near confident she won't do it again?

Note to Plan9: Don't worry, I can see where you're coming from as well. Not that I'll end up agreeing with you, but I understand.

ruoN

I agree and would like to offer a general advice to men:

This is a mans world in the sense of responsibilities, some of you choose to live independent from their spouse and its a two way road that creates two equal opposing forces if your marriage/relationship is not polarized right.

A man need but must deserve respect, if your relationship or marriage is shaky investigate the possible OBVIOUS causes including YOU, and do not ever consider yourself untouchable or immune to wrong.

Build your confidence by raising your limitations, once you've tasted a higher level of satisfaction you don't wanna go back and that's achieved by healthy living and educating yourself about those things you're not so good at but would love to master.

Guys, once you reach a certain level of confidence you will learn that you never have to let anything control your emotions, strip your decisions from guilt tripping and keep your moral standards high.

The above gives you a good grip over any relation because you keep the women on her toes! Same applies to your other aspects of life like work and social life.




but you all know that already

marine4582

I hear what everyone is saying, there are some mitigating factors. I'm not trying to make excuses for her. What she did is disgusting. I'm pissed and confused and just dont want to make a decision based on anger. Anyone can fuck up and make a mistake, but yet in this situation its hard to accept as a mistake. I just cant decide if I should work it out or if this is gonna be a ongoing issue. I don't want to live without her but I will. I just hate this.

---------- Post added at 08:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

holding onto anger is like holding a hot piece of coal and trying to throw it at someone,

The_Jazz

marine, I don't buy her excuse. I just plain old don't. People don't work that way. Someone pesters you to sleep with them, you're married and you just "give in"? Think about that. She's trying to lessen you're hurt, but she wanted to do this. Either he raped her - which she says didn't happen - or she willingly fucked him. There are no degrees here.

I'm not saying that you need to dump her or stay with her - that's for you to decide - but you should at least be more honest with yourself about what really happened. Don't make your own excuses for her or allow her to make them for herself. That's where the problem is.

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chinese crested

She is an oath breaker. That used to be considered pretty important, a persons word. What is the value of her promise in the future?
If you have children, that makes it all far more difficult, if you dont, be thankfull, if they do not exist they can not be hurt, they can not make you consider the 'for the sake of the children' route - that way tends to lie unhappiness I think.

cj2112

First it wasn't "just a mistake", it was a pattern of choices that she knew was wrong, knew would hurt you deeply, yet she chose to carry through with them anyways. I havenever once "accidentally" had sex w/ somebody.

The lies both before and after this happened tells me she doesn't love you. You don't treat people you love the way she treated you. Yes, she WILL cheat again.

Iliftrocks

I would suggest not just forgiving her, and hoping she won't do it again, but going to therapy with her and listening, and then figuring out, from what you learn there, if you think she will do it again. Therapy might actually help you move on, in a more mentally healthy way.

Don't ever regret being a loving, forgiving person, but you also don't want to regret being a door mat...

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