boatin

I've got a bowflex, and I love it. Since Christmas, I've been on the following routine:

On MWF, I do bench/fly/shoulder shrug/narrow and wide lats. On TTS, I do back/crunch/oblique/reverse crunch/reverse curl/curl/trunk/calf raise. 3x a week I'm rowing for 20 minutes and I stretch every day. I'm a juggler, so my triceps have always been in the best shape on my body. I see no reason to work those...

The trouble is that my pecs/abs don't seem to recover. Even though I'm not sore the next day (making me think i'm not over doing it), if I exert on off days I feel the burn. I started taking 2 days off each week - thereby not really doing MWF on MWF (if you know what I mean). But it's not really helping.

I don't feel that I'm overdoing, and I am definitely getting toned and I feel much much better. I don't have any particular fitness goals, I just want to be in good shape. Which I've never particularly been. I eat a pretty healthy diet - veggies, protein every day, junk food only rarely.

Is it cause I'm old (41), and just don't recover like I used to? Or is that normal and I don't know it because I've never worked out regularly before? Appreciate any thoughts...

Ch'i

Work them anyway.
You seem to present the signs of under-working, but its difficult to say with certainty. Would you mind telling me exactly what you do during your workout sessions, and how long this recovery problem has been occuring?

boatin

Heh, I work my triceps every time I juggle. Which is about 30 minutes a day. They get a LOT of work. And they're the only muscle that's had consistent work for the last 20 years. I have big arms, but little tiny biceps...

My MWF workout is 3 sets of 12 of the following things:
*bench 200 lbs
*fly 140
*delt row 120
*shoulder press 140
*shoulder shrug 200
*wide lat 180
*narrow lat 220

The 'problem' i'm trying to figure out is that although I won't be sore tomorrow, but I'll still feel the workout when I'll lift again on Wednesday.

I've been working out for 6 weeks now. I've had periods of my life where I've lifted for a month or 2 months before stopping, and not felt the lingering tired that I feel now. A possible difference is that I'm working out 'better' now - lifting slower, and using better form. So maybe it's just the initial muscle building that's happening. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong, or not eating right? Just don't know...

Ch'i

Hmm. Six weeks is just around the time you should be getting over the initial muscle building phase, so my advice could be premature. Just in case, however, I'll try and voice what I think could be the problem. There are two reasons that seem to aptly fit your situation.

Reason #1: Stress
Emotional upsetness unleashes a hormone called cortisol. Its main function is to aleviate stress, but it also suppresses testosterone. Lower testosterone means fewer results from your workout.

There are many steps you can take to avoid this, the simplest is to relax. Before you exercise take a few deep breaths. Protrude your stomach when you inhale (this will help let in the maximum amount of air into your lungs). Then shrug your shoulders as high as you can, hold for a few seconds, and very slowly lower them as you continue to breathe deeply.

Reason #2: (most likely) Undertraining
If you train hard, your body is broken down and weak. But within a few days, your body recovers and is stronger than it was before. It may hold these powers for a few days, but then your strength starts to slip. In this case, you won't notice the the problem from session to session. You will usually only feel that you are not making any progress, much like the problem you described.

How to fix it? Workout either harder or more frequently. A few guidelines:

1. Since you're doing split routines, workout three or four times a week.
2. Increase the weights five to ten percent per week. When you can't do this anymore, you've peaked on the exercises you are doing and need to change them.
3. After six to eight workouts using one system of sets and repetitions, switch to another.

As a side note, make sure you're eating right and supplying your body with the proper building materials it needs, and add a back exercise to your routine. If you'd like any advice on which exercises you should do, or what your diet should consist of, or anything else, feel free to ask.


Take this, and call me in the morning

stevie667

How long have you been working out for?

Your muscles (and nervous system) can often take several days to recover fully from a workout, and given your age and lack of previous training (please don't take offense) it is likely they will take a tad more time.

Take a week off everything, then go back, see how your doing, and just play around with your schedule to see how things work. If your body is heading in the right direction, thats good, just keep eating well and see what works for you.

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Phant84

Also make sure that you are taking in a sufficient amount of protein. Rule of thumb is 1g per pound body weight. Make sure to take some for of protein right after you work out, whether its a protein shake or a high protein meal.

After working out your body is in a catabolic state state and needs protein to rebuild the muscles that you just worked out and tore down.

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Slims

What are you eating? And when?

1g proteing per pound is great if you are a bodybuilder, but you don't really need that much otherwise. But you do need to eat after you workout and you need to get some protein. Preferably a shake or protein bar with high quality protein (whey). But chicken is also good. Protein from beans (even soy) is trash but is better than nothing.

If you workout without eating afterwards your body won't have the materials it needs to rebuild your muscle.

Also, try mixing up your routine so you don't always do exactly the same thing.

When I lift I am noticably weaker for several days afterwards, but when I get into a routine I still gain strength even though I never feel 100%. However, don't be afraid to lay off for a couple days to see if you are somehow overtraining.

Do you lift until you just can't complete the excercise anymore? How tired do you feel immediately after an excercise? How long do you lift for and how long do you break in between sets?

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Hektore

The biggest problem when giving advice on health/fitness is that everyone is different. Ch'i thinks you're not doing enough, I have to disagree, the vast majority of people require 48-72 for 100% muscle recovery from strength training.

I bet you're overdoing it, I'm 21 and have been in sports my whole life and I need 2 days between workouts. I'm betting that you simple need to back off the frequency with which you work the same muscle groups. If you're still feeling monday's workout on wednesday, wait till thursday. You can make gains on lifting a muscle group one day a week, so I seriously doubt it's undertraining.

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Ch'i

While I see your reasoning, Hektore, and thought along similar lines, there are a few symptoms boatin mentioned which pointed more towards undertraining. Though is certainly worth taking the time to clear up any ambiguity posed in the OP.

Diminished performance is usually the best indication that you're overdoing it. If you begin to add a few minutes to your usual time, or fail to equal or better the number of repititions per load, you're probably overtraining. I have four questions for you:

•Are you irritable?
•Have you lost your appetite?
•Are you having trouble sleeping?
•Are you experiencing any aching in your muscles and and joints?

If the answer is yes to any of these then a break is in order. Many top trainers recommend a week of total recovery every twelve weeks. This not only gives your muscles and connective tissue a much needed break but also gives your central nervous system a chance to rehabilitate. The central nervous system is put under a great deal of stress, so if it is not allowed time to adequetely recover your coordination may suffer and impede your strength.
I'm still in favor of my advice being premature. You're regiment seems balanced, so I'd stick with it. This soreness is not uncommon, especially in the chest and abdominals. In addition to stretching every day I would recommend, if you haven't been already, stretching before and after your workout. Go through the breathing exercise while doing so. You should also consider taking a very breif jog (2 min), juggling, or doing anything which would bring your heart-rate up before lifting.

If the soreness persists then it would be wise to seek out a fitness or training coach in your area. A trip to the doctor for a physical should also be in order, regardless.

stevie667

Missed that bit, in all fairness i had been flying all day!

Since christmas, give it some time, i havn't got into my workout routine since about again since about AD 867, and i'm not looking forward to it because i know it is going to completly kill me for the first few months until my body picks up again.

*reading over post moreso*

what kind of of weights are you lifting when you do your exercises, what kind of reps e.t.c? It sounds like you coud be overtraining.

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Pip

The abs at least get involved in pretty much every exercise you do, since you use your "core" muscles to stablise your body when you lift. So your poor abs never get a day off! So I also suggest you cut back on lifting days and get more 100% rest days. I work out 2-3 times a week and find it hard enough to recover. Six days a week... yikes!

thingstodo

I would tend to agree. Plus, the pain of lifting usually shows up two days later, not the next.

Also, you really need to pay attention to balance. If you work one thing a lot there is something that balances that motion. For example, many guys work their chest too hard and neglect their backs.

Another thought - since you feel you're doing plenty with your tris they may have more power and be out of balance with your chest, or even tho other way around since the excercise they get isn't lifting. And you said your bis are small which makes me think out of balance again.

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Moonduck

The way I read this, you're training chests/shoulders/back 3x week, and core 2x week. Your chest/back routine consists of 7 exercises done 3x12. That's a LOT of training, especially as you are new to this. Look at it this way:

*bench 200 lbs x 3 x 12 = 7200
*fly 140 x 3 x 12 = 5040
*delt row 120 x 3 x 12 = 4320
*shoulder press 140 x 3 x 12 = 5040
*shoulder shrug 200 x 3 x 12 = 7200
*wide lat 180 x 3 x 12 = 6480
*narrow lat 220 x 3 x 12 = 7920

For a poundage total of 43200#. And you do this three times a week? You're doing almost 65 tons a week. That is a LOT of volume.

Now, admittedly, the bowflex doesn't actually apply that "poundage" the same way actual weights do, but it is still a LARGE amount of stress on your system.

If you read up on powerlifting (for example) you find out how people that are deeply serious about strength treat their programs. One of the core concepts of modern powerlifting is making sure your work capacity if up to snuff. You went from nothing (so far as I can tell from your post) to 65 tons a week in one jump. That's a HUGE leap. You are better off increasing your volume in reasonable chunks, rather than jumping into high volume training. At this point, it is a moot question, as you are already showing signs of issues with it, yet you body is acclimating to it at the same time.

Deload for a week or so by either laying off entirely, or halving your sets/reps. See if that helps. As Ch'i said, you should probably vary your movements by now (another problem with the bowflex system is an inherent limitation in what movements you can actually do with it). Your system will adapt to the stresses presented, and your goals will cease.

Overall, I would do a bit less. You've got a lot of overlap in that program, and are hitting your shoulders hard as a result. For example, there is no functional reason to hit both wide and narrow lats (by pull-down I am assuming) in the same workout. Sure, you're hitting the lats differently, but you're hitting the biceps and shoulders the same way on both, and that is what will give out first, and get over-trained first. Add in shoulder rows, flys, bench presses, and shoulder presswork, and you are asking for some very beat up shoulders.

soccerchamp76

Invest in a protein powder. Optimum Nutrition is widely regarded as the best whey protein powder available. Get the chocolate version, mix in water or milk, shake in a water bottle and you have yourself a protein-filled milkshake with no fat.
Your body needs to rebuild from something, so the protein supplements help out. Supplementing with Glutamine can also aid in recovery.

Don't forget to stretch before and after as well.

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stevie667

Bump to all of those, but a correction to the ON thing, its not the best out there, but merely the best one for a reasonable amount of money. If you want to spend a chunk of change you can get some very very good powders. However, for us mere mortals, spending £30 on 2 lb of protein isn't really viable

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