Boy Arrested For Opening Xmas Gift Early - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

warrrreagl · 12-06-2006, 07:49 AM

Straight off The Smoking Gun.

Quote:

DECEMBER 5--A South Carolina boy, 12, was arrested Sunday morning after his mother called police to report that he had unwrapped a Christmas present without her permission. According to a Rock Hill Police Department report (a copy of which you'll find below), the child opened a Nintendo Game Boy, though he had been directed not to by family members. When the boy's mother learned that the $85 gift had been opened, she called cops, who charged the juvenile with petty larceny. In an interview with The Herald newspaper, the boy's mother, a 27-year-old single parent, described her son as a disruptive child, noting that she hoped his arrest would serve as a corrective to disorderly behavior at school and home.

LINKY

On TFP we've already hashed and re-hashed how so many parents are too emotionally terrified of their own children to raise them anymore. And then I get to eat next to them at the restaurant. What I can't figure out is why the police didn't tell this lady to go fuck herself, grow some backbone, and handle her own damn kid.

Holy shit, lady.

ratbastid · 12-06-2006, 08:09 AM

While I generally agree with you, I think this case is a little different from the unruly hellions I end up next to in restaurants and on airplanes. From the commentary on the police report, it's clear this kid is a major handful. He's been kicked out of school, he's got priors on his record for disorderly conduct and assaulting a police officer. While mom is clearly not blameless in any of her child's behavior, I can sort of get behind her calling down the full consequences of his actions. If she'd started doing that years ago, maybe things would be different for him now.

A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again.

Lady Sage · 12-06-2006, 08:20 AM

I agree she should handle her own child.

How many of us didnt peek at xmas presents as kids? I know I did!

shesus · 12-06-2006, 08:35 AM

She should handle her own kid. Also, if he is as bad as the report and everything leads to, then he doesn't deserve a GameBoy. I mean, if a child is really bad all year, why spoil him now? When I was little, if we were bad we got half-eaten candy bars and bread crusts. Literally. Then a few good presents would come out because we really weren't that bad.

My grandpa made sure of that by using his belt when we got out of line even the tiniest bit.

Parents are not hard enough on their kids though. I see it everyday and I don't even want to get started on the topic. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard a parent ask me for advice and say, "I just don't know what to do?" I give them advice like, grounding from tv, video games, early bedtime, etc. Response: "Oooh, then he'd be mad at me. I don't want that."
I just want to smack them.

Bill O'Rights · 12-06-2006, 08:39 AM

The cops? A little overkill? Maybe...maybe not. That's not for me to decide. Though, personally...I'd have just taken the Game Boy back to store for a refund, and the "Hellion" would've gotten zilch for Christmas.

Well...maybe a card. A cookie if he cried. Nah, not even that.

Lady Sage · 12-06-2006, 08:40 AM

Too many people who have kids dont understand the difference between Parent and Friend. Who cares if your kid is mad at you? Do your job darn it!

Xera · 12-06-2006, 09:21 AM

I think calling the cops was a good idea. That is raising your kid, letting him experience the highest level of negative consequece for negative behavior. I'm just wondering why it had to get this far before the mom decided to do that? If she had brought the highest level of consequence to bear from the begining then this would not have been necessary.

Also I agree that the kid should not be getting a gameboy for christmas. this mom probably had to work for a week for the wages to pay for that gameboy. This is a kid that is spoiled to the core.

I dont know it's been decided that kids should not be spanked by so many people. There is the ideal out there that kids can be redirected and that simply praising and rewarding good behavior will get that behavior repeated. BULL SHIT. I mean that is one part of it. but that cannot be the whole kit and kaboodle to parenting. Likewise if all you ever do is punish you kid then you wind up with problems.

Negative actions have negative consequences. Deal with it or don't have kids that grow up thinking that they should be allowed to sue their boss because they got fired when they mooned the customers- one of my coworkers at the hardware store a few years back did that, and now I see what kind of house he came from.

Lasereth · 12-06-2006, 09:40 AM

Did anyone read the actual report? This kid is a hellion. If my kid did all of the shit that he did, and he finally ripped open a present that was bought on good intentions, I'd go apeshit as well. The mom obviously called the cops based on his history of behavior, not just the present.

warrrreagl · 12-06-2006, 10:17 AM

When I read the police report, I don't see HIS history of behavior. I see HER history of ineffectiveness and inaction. That child did not pass through some dimensional membrane as is. He was raised by her to be exactly the way he is now. Every item in that police report represents a missed opportunity by her to step up to the plate and teach her child responsible behavior.

Average_Joe · 12-06-2006, 10:42 AM

I couldn't open the link due to a filter on my work computer, but I would have to believe that in order for the police to charge him with petty larceny this would have to be more than just opening a present. Did the story in the link actually say that the present was for him? Did he do more than just open the wrapping paper...perhaps he played with it too, or even took it outside of the house? When he got caught perhaps he refused to return it? In this case I have no problems that the parents called the cops because it is stealing.

ngdawg · 12-06-2006, 10:45 AM

He's 12. She's 27. Do the math. Obviously she wasn't taught responsibility and consequences of action when she was his age or so...where would she get the hint about teaching her own kid?
I'm with Shesus-Ya just wanna smack some parents upside their heads when they make those "I don't want him mad at me" comments.

macmanmike6100 · 12-06-2006, 11:26 AM

ratbastid: "A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again."

Brilliantly said.

stevie667 · 12-06-2006, 11:29 AM

"Playstation Game Boy" - that bit cracked me up.

Pimp smack the kid upside the head, that'll teach the little ****.

Ch'i · 12-06-2006, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

He's 12. She's 27. Do the math. Obviously she wasn't taught responsibility and consequences of action when she was his age or so...where would she get the hint about teaching her own kid?
I'm with Shesus-Ya just wanna smack some parents upside their heads when they make those "I don't want him mad at me" comments.

Ah, truer words were never spoken.

Quote:

ratbastid: "A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again."

Brilliantly said.

Brilliant? That was downright scintillating!

thingstodo · 12-06-2006, 12:32 PM

I can't figure out what laws were broken here. And why waste all this money bringing cops in when the parents have the responsibility. Don't they have better things to do?

If the mother can't handle the kid he should by taken away and someone that can handle him take care of things.

Vincentt · 12-06-2006, 12:39 PM

This reminds me of the 911 clip where the parent calls in about her daughter and the operator says "Do you want us to come shoot her."

Willravel · 12-06-2006, 12:48 PM

I'd like her to pay the thousands of dollars it costs to arrest someone to the police department and make a public formal apology to everyone who's ever been a victim of a real crime, only to have the police busy with the insane rantings of a complete idiot.

Also, kudos to NG for pointing out that she couldn't keep her irresponsible legs shut when she was 15.

jorgelito · 12-06-2006, 01:35 PM

It is tough to be a single parent. A boy needs a father. Things like this really don't surprise me anymore with the decay of the family these days, kids are absolutely ill-behaved and borderline criminal (I live in LA where I see poor juvenile behavior on a daily basis).

Regardless of how irresponsible she was/is, it was better for her to call the cops than to just ignore it or let it go. What ever happened to it takes a village? I believe there are some people on this board who watch their neighbor's kids on a daily basis etc. A single mom trying to raise a boy is quite a handful. Oh and hey, who knows, maybe the arrest will scare him straight. When I was in high school, they made us visit a prison and meet these criminals (I was in a special program). That was one of the scariest experiences of my life. Made me think twice about being "disruptive" cause the last place I wanted to end up was there.

Sultana · 12-06-2006, 02:17 PM

She was utilizing resources that are not in line with the "crime" comitted--there was no crime. I'd rather the police officer's time be used to prevent/resolve real crime (i.e., where a law has been broken) rather than as a ineffective parent's disciplinary device.

If I was the victim of a car-jacking, or a break-in robbery, or a violent domestic disturbance, and had to wait several more hours before getting face-to-face police time because of an incident like this, I'd be furious.

Charlatan · 12-06-2006, 02:29 PM

I agree with Sultana on this... this is a big waste of police resources. Some *real* crime is being neglected at the expense of this idiot woman and her poorly trained child.

By the way, ratbastid? Gravity? I love it and plan on using that explanation with my kids.

analog · 12-06-2006, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

On TFP we've already hashed and re-hashed how so many parents are too emotionally terrified of their own children to raise them anymore. And then I get to eat next to them at the restaurant. What I can't figure out is why the police didn't tell this lady to go fuck herself, grow some backbone, and handle her own damn kid.

Holy shit, lady.

Me either, well said. Especially knowing she was 15 when she got pregnant with him, i'm not surprised.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again.

Brilliant.

abaya · 12-06-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

He's 12. She's 27. Do the math. Obviously she wasn't taught responsibility and consequences of action when she was his age or so...where would she get the hint about teaching her own kid?

Yup, noticed that too... pretty scary, really. I'm 27, and I can't imagine what kind of shit I would have had to get into to have a child at 15. I know it happens, but damn, SO many things would have had to go wrong for that to happen. Hell, looks like her son is only 3 years away from doing the same thing in his life, jesus.

People.

ASU2003 · 12-06-2006, 06:03 PM

But there was a crime. He stole a GameBoy from his Grandmother. And I agree with the Mother, especially the part where she says she would rather call in her own son for something small, then it be someone else calling in a bigger crime down the line.

In my family, I would have gotten a belt across the ass for pulling something like that. But parents do need to have the power in the family, and it takes one normal officer a few minutes to keep the kid from ending up in jail for a lot longer in the future, I don't think it is a problem.

Lady Sage · 12-06-2006, 06:23 PM

How does one steal a gift? Just curious...

Willravel · 12-06-2006, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Sage

How does one steal a gift? Just curious...

It's like saying we stole the Statue of Liberty from France. It was a gift. A gift.

jth · 12-06-2006, 06:59 PM

am I the only one that things it's insane that they actually arrested a 12 year...

Boys will be boys?

It really seems amazing to me that a parent would do that to their 12 year old... to call the cops on them for something so insignificant in the big scheme of things... why get the police involved... in fact if I have children my children would not ever have to worry about police, they would have to worry about the consequences (not physical) of going against the word of their Mother and Father. I was raised that their word was scripture and when they said "No" it meant "No", not "maybe", not sorta, not "later perhaps".

little jth: Can I go to over to my friend's house?
Daddy: No

end of discussion.

Not that it was mallicous or it was always a "No". In fact I got to do whatever I wanted for the most part until I was a teenager. It seems that when these parents don't build up trust between themselves and their children that there is no hope for them in the future.... so might as well call the cops

ktspktsp · 12-06-2006, 07:12 PM

I don't see why the police should have even bothered with this.

magictoy · 12-06-2006, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Pimp smack the kid upside the head, that'll teach the little ****.

While I agree with you, these days that can be how the cops will arrive at your house looking for YOU.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

What ever happened to it takes a village?

It went to a well-deserved death. It doesn't take a village--it takes a PARENT. Preferably two.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again.

That sounds great, but so do a lot of things, in theory.

In practice, there are innumerable shades of gray. There seems to be more success when parents choose their battles, and concede others.

shakran · 12-06-2006, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lasereth

Did anyone read the actual report? This kid is a hellion. If my kid did all of the shit that he did, and he finally ripped open a present that was bought on good intentions, I'd go apeshit as well. The mom obviously called the cops based on his history of behavior, not just the present.

Well unfortunately the cops enforced the present present-opening behavior, not the past behavior. For the cops to be diverted from handling real crimes to arresting a stupid kid for opening a stupid christmas present is asinine. If he's such a hellion, maybe he should have been arrested when he assaulted the cop.

Presumably he got in at least some sort of trouble with the law about that. If that didn't scare him, how the hell is giving him a rap sheet for the high crime of present-peeking going to do anything?

This case is indicative of how the mother most likely performs all of her child rearing. Namely, she doesn't bother because it's too hard. Instead of calling the cops, just take the damn toy away and make sure the kid never gets it. Ever. Return it, sell it, hell crush the damn thing in front of him. Teach him there are consequences to disobeying orders.

Oh and while we're on the subject, kids peek at christmas presents if they get the chance. That's called being a kid. Quit being a dumbass about it, and next time hide the damn presents better. If this kid is really such a horrible boy, why in hell is mom choosing THIS incident to get excited about?

And another thing, why is mom buying the kid a nice video game system if he's such a jackass? The kid behaves or he doesn't get goodies. Hell even Santa Claus has that rule, why can't the parents?

Psycho Dad · 12-07-2006, 04:36 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^^

What he said.

Not only did the police waste 100% of their time dealing with this little shit, they had to most likely file reports wasting more time.

Filing charges? Let's hope they get dropped so this doesn't waste the courts time.

flat5 · 12-07-2006, 05:51 AM

This lady needed some help raising her child. She got some.
I hope she gets more. She has been dealing with this problem for 12 years.
That's all I know about the situation.

florida0214 · 12-07-2006, 06:36 AM

This is way too Fucked up. I mean I had shitty parents but this takes the cake. It is really a shame that parents are depending on society to raise their kids.
IOM they should have taken away the mother for wasting the police officers time. THis is a petty dispute that could have been resolved at the family level.

Bill O'Rights · 12-07-2006, 06:49 AM

Y'all are missing the truly important question....

Did the police taze him?

jorgelito · 12-07-2006, 01:18 PM

Here's how you do it right:

Quote:

Tough-love remedy for an unruly teen: Two years. With monks. In Cambodia.

By Christine Clarridge
Seattle Times staff reporter

Chou Sa-Ngoun was desperate.

Her teenage son was skipping school for weeks at a time, using drugs, getting arrested, staying out all night, hanging out with the wrong kids.

Nothing she did seemed to make any difference. Grounding didn't work. Neither did yelling, crying, taking away privileges, counseling, switching schools, probation or stints in juvenile hall.

She called the Army, but was told her son, Michael Sa-Ngoun, was too young to enlist. She begged for temporary placement in a foster home, but law-enforcement and social-service agencies said there wasn't much more they could do for him, or to him. He wasn't really that bad, they said.

"They said he's just being a teenager," she said. "They said they couldn't do anything until he did something more serious. But by the time he did something more serious it could be too late."

Finally, at the end of a family trip to Cambodia in 2004, Chou told Michael that they were leaving him behind. She, her husband and Michael's two younger siblings returned to their Tukwila home while Michael remained in a remote village to be raised and taught by monks in a Buddhist temple.

After two years of living as a monk in Cambodia, Michael, now 17, returned home Nov. 12 with a high-school diploma, job skills and a commitment, he said, to leading a "good life."

"I just felt different one day," he said shortly after his return. "I learned that you have to give up wanting things and accept what you are given. I learned about the afterlife and was taught that if you keep doing good, you'll have a good afterlife."

Chou doesn't know whether the change in her son will be lasting, particularly since he's back in the city where he once ran with the wrong crowd and was seduced by temptation. But she's hopeful the past two years living a life few Western teens will ever know will have a permanent and profound effect on her oldest child.

"I had tried every single thing I could think of," she said. " I thought this was the only way to save my firstborn."

Grounding didn't work

Michael began getting into trouble at school when he was 12. Then he started skipping school weeks at a time with the encouragement of some older neighborhood kids.

"I would drop him off at the front door [of the school] and he would leave out the back," Chou said.

He lied to his parents all the time, his mother said, made straight F's, ignored his chores and his curfew, and sometimes didn't come home at all.

Chou tried grounding him, taking away computer access and video games, and even locking him out of the house. But he always found ways around the restrictions.

One time, the school called her at her job at a medical clinic and said Michael was absent. She came home to find he'd broken into the house with a friend and was on the computer looking at porn and drinking beer.

In 2002, Michael got caught stealing merchandise from JC Penney. The next year he was charged with residential burglary and convicted of second-degree vehicle prowl and stealing a car.

One day, the police asked her to pick him up, but she refused. They kept him for one night but brought him around the next day. When she wouldn't let him in, he broke screens trying to find a way into the house. Another time, he came home badly beaten.

Looking back on those times, Michael says the only things he cared about were money and girls. Beyond that, the tall, thin young man has a difficult time explaining that part of his life.

"I guess I just didn't care," he said. "I was following the crowd, doing what was easy and fun."

Leaving him behind

When Michael was 14, Chou began planning a trip to Cambodia, her mother's homeland. Her husband — Michael's stepfather — suggested they leave Michael behind for a week or two.

"I thought that the hardship would be good for him," said Sanny Sa-Ngoun, a carpenter who was raised in Cambodia.

Neither parent had living relatives in Cambodia, but a friend from Bellevue suggested they leave Michael in the care of Buddhist monks in the town of Krolong, a tiny village in the Kampong Cham region with no electricity, no plumbing and no phones.

In November 2004, the family flew in to Phnom Penh and spent the first few days visiting great temples and cities. They eventually made their way to Krolong.

With a little more than a week of vacation left, Chou told Michael they were returning to the U.S. without him.

He raged at first and planned to flee, but didn't have money, a plane ticket or a place to go. Before his family left Cambodia, he went on a hunger strike and pleaded for another chance.

Chou told Michael that the only way he was coming home was if he lived for a time in the temple and changed his ways.

Michael realized he had no choice. He donned the orange robes of the Buddhist monks, allowed his head to be shaved and mouthed the vows.

He says now that he was resentful. He felt like he'd been abandoned in a strange country, where he didn't speak the language and hated the food. He missed the trappings of his former life: television, computers and his friends.

In the first weeks and months, Chou listened for a change in his attitude and voice whenever he called home. When she didn't hear it, she told him, "Just a little while longer."

A new world

Buddhist monks are similar to priests and pastors in some Western religions. Taking vows of celibacy, simplicity and service, monks conduct religious ceremonies and rituals and give blessings. They have often traditionally been the most educated people, passing their knowledge from one generation of monks to the next. They often filled the role of educators in many smaller villages.

The temple will take in any young man, regardless of race, background or financial ability, who is willing to study Buddhism as a monk. There is no financial cost or expected payback, but the families of many do make financial contributions to the village or the temple. Because the Sa-Ngouns did not want their son to take food from the mouths of others, they sent $100 for village use.

The Krolong temple and school, which was at the physical and spiritual center of the village, represented an entirely new world for the teen from Seattle.

In silence, Michael rose at 5:45 each morning. He drew buckets of water and laid out two rugs, two place settings and two towels for his teacher and the elder monk, whom he called "Grandpa."

He then set a place for himself, called the two and they ate their meal of rice and meat or fish together. He rested for 10 minutes and went to work outside on whatever needed doing around the temple and school grounds.

He and the other young monks learned to mix mortar, lay stone and build fences. They had friendly competitions to be the best. He began to understand and speak the Cambodian language, and then to study the Buddhist prayers and teachings.

"I learned to try to be free from wanting things, and I learned a lot about older people, how to talk to them and thank them," he said.

He washed at the water pump, and then he and the other monks would take containers and go from door to door among the villagers asking for food in exchange for blessings.

They could not refuse food or ask for more. "We took what was given to us," Michael said. That food was placed in a community dish and made up the monks' final meal of the day, which was eaten together at noon.

One night he had a dream that the 12 evil spirits that were part of his Buddhist teachings tried to keep him from living a good life. He was scared, he said, and when he woke up he found that he didn't see the temple, the village or the country as a prison anymore. He understood why his parents did what they had done.

"I got to thinking about it and figured out I was wrong. I was actually pretty bad," he said.

When he spoke to his mother the next time — about nine months into his stay — he told her he wanted to stay in Cambodia a while longer.

She arranged for him to receive study packets from a high-school correspondence course. He took tests online at an Internet cafe in a larger town where he was taken by a villager on motorcycle.

A few months ago, he received his high-school diploma. He told his mother he was ready to return.

Back home again

He arrived at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport last month still wearing his flowing orange robes. He still honored the monks' vows that, among other things, forbade him from touching women and kept him from hugging his mother.

He stayed up the whole first night watching TV, then slept, then watched some more TV. It looked to him like things had changed. "All the construction," he said.

The American food he'd missed so much tasted plain. And he's been overwhelmed by all the noise and activity.

He's been invited to say chants and prayers and give blessings at the Buddhist temples in Olympia, White Center and in people's homes.

"People bow down to him and ask for his blessing," his mother said. "That's how they show their respect."

In a traditional cleansing ceremony that the whole family participated in at the White Center temple on Saturday, Michael was freed from his strict vows, took off his robes and emerged wearing street clothes. The ceremony marked a rite of passage, his journey from Buddhist teachings back to his Western world.

He doesn't plan to renounce what he's learned. But he is now able to hug his mother and find a job.

His first goal is to petition the court to seal his juvenile records because that part of his life is over, he said, "and it's embarrassing." He hopes to land a job in a restaurant, and a portion of what he earns will be sent to the Cambodian temple — not because it is expected of him, but because he sees the needs, he said.

"They have very little," he said.

Michael and his family realize that the true test of his experience is yet to come, when he fully re-enters the world of teenagers and temptations.

But he said he's certain that he does not want to return to his old ways.

When he goes back to Cambodia, he wants it to be for a visit and not a sentence.

"I do feel wiser and more at peace," he said. "I thought that what my mother did was harsh, but I learned a lot about life and consequences. I saw poverty and learned how lucky I was."

"It was hard," Chou agrees. "But I saw where he was going and I said, 'I can't let this happen. I can't give up. If this is the only way to save my son and give him a future, then this is what I have to do.'

"I'm very proud of him now, and I'm very hopeful."

Hey, people do whatever they think they have to do to get through to their kids. Even if it takes an arrest.

Similar type of thing. 12 years old, nothing worked. Taking away, tv, video games, groundings, even an arrest, NOTHING was working for this kid. And this was a two parent home. Even with a father (I wonder how much he did though it does say he was a step-father).

shakran · 12-07-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by florida0214

This is way too Fucked up. I mean I had shitty parents but this takes the cake.

Well that often does happen when you have a kid at age 15 like this mom did.

ratbastid · 12-07-2006, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by magictoy

That sounds great, but so do a lot of things, in theory.

In practice, there are innumerable shades of gray. There seems to be more success when parents choose their battles, and concede others.

Negative. It's allowing there to be shades of gray that lets children to eat you alive.

Children operate in a mode of dominating you or avoiding being dominated by you. It's all they've got. So stop making rules to protect your children and start making rules to protect yourself (and others) from your children.

That doesn't mean there has to be a rule for every little thing. I think that's what you mean by "pick your battles". But the rules you make, enforce them reliably and universally.

You're the adult here. You don't have to concede anything. And you don't have to explain why you're not conceding. It's just going the way you say, and that's it. Once kids learn that, life gets a whole lot simpler for them, and a lot of the struggle they have with their parents disappears.

Also (thanks Jess for pointing this out) gravity doesn't make it an emotional issue. No anger, no reaction, no revenge. Just consequences.

I learned this from one of the most amazing fathers I know. I once overheard the following interaction:

"Time for bed!"
"But I'm not tiiiiired!"
"You don't get it. I'm tired. So you're going to bed."
"Oh. ... Ok."

The other thing is, you can get creative with the rules. When they go out with their kids, there's one rule: it's the kids' job to make sure the grownups are having a good time. If the grownups stop having a good time, it's over, and we're going home. Not like a punishment or an emotional thing: it's simply that the rule is, if the grownups aren't having a good time, we're going home. Or when they're playing together at home or something--same deal. If dad's not having a good time, the game's over. He's raised two GREAT kids following this principle. Mature, intelligent, interesting, responsible, respectful. Just really, really great kids, who have total control over themselves.

shakran · 12-07-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratbastid

it's the kids' job to make sure the grownups are having a good time. If the grownups stop having a good time, it's over, and we're going home.

A better way to work this rule, IMHO, and the way I work it myself, is that it's the kid's job to make sure they are not the cause of me not having a good time. Let's face it. I am NOT going to have a good time over lunch at Chuck E Cheese. Period. Not gonna happen. The kid's playing his video game or jumping in that pit of balls and I'm listening to what sounds like 750 other kids squalling at the top of their lungs and being general brats. There is absolutely nothing my child can do to make me have a great time at this place, but then that particular restaurant is geared toward making sure my KID has a good time. That's good enough for me, and provided my kid doesn't start acting stupid like all the other kids in there, we're not going to up and leave just because I don't like it.

Willravel · 12-07-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

A better way to work this rule, IMHO, and the way I work it myself, is that it's the kid's job to make sure they are not the cause of me not having a good time. Let's face it. I am NOT going to have a good time over lunch at Chuck E Cheese. Period. Not gonna happen. The kid's playing his video game or jumping in that pit of balls and I'm listening to what sounds like 750 other kids squalling at the top of their lungs and being general brats. There is absolutely nothing my child can do to make me have a great time at this place, but then that particular restaurant is geared toward making sure my KID has a good time. That's good enough for me, and provided my kid doesn't start acting stupid like all the other kids in there, we're not going to up and leave just because I don't like it.

Just an aside: Chuck E. Cheese is why God gave us iPods. Download 4 hours of your favorite songs and just watch your kid. Trust me, it works mericles. Just don't close your eyes, those little dudes are quick.

FutureForseen · 12-08-2006, 01:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Also, kudos to NG for pointing out that she couldn't keep her irresponsible legs shut when she was 15.

You can't say that, you don't know the circumstance around it. Not all teen pregnancies are sluts.

I agree with the mothers' treatment of the kid. Obviously, she bought the gameboy to try and bribe him, like she will buy it for him if he stays good. She also probably hoped that he would be so distracted by this new toy, he wouldn't do some of the bad things, he would be tempted away from the bad life.

flstf · 12-08-2006, 06:52 AM

It is kind of funny to think of the police enforcing proper Christmas gift giving protocal. The Christmas police, has a nice ring to it, perhaps we can have them make a list and check it twice to find out who has been naughty or nice.

12-06-2006, 08:20 AM	#3 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	I agree she should handle her own child. How many of us didnt peek at xmas presents as kids? I know I did! __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

12-06-2006, 08:35 AM	#4 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	She should handle her own kid. Also, if he is as bad as the report and everything leads to, then he doesn't deserve a GameBoy. I mean, if a child is really bad all year, why spoil him now? When I was little, if we were bad we got half-eaten candy bars and bread crusts. Literally. Then a few good presents would come out because we really weren't that bad. My grandpa made sure of that by using his belt when we got out of line even the tiniest bit. Parents are not hard enough on their kids though. I see it everyday and I don't even want to get started on the topic. I wish I had a dollar for everytime I heard a parent ask me for advice and say, "I just don't know what to do?" I give them advice like, grounding from tv, video games, early bedtime, etc. Response: "Oooh, then he'd be mad at me. I don't want that." I just want to smack them. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

12-06-2006, 08:39 AM	#5 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	The cops? A little overkill? Maybe...maybe not. That's not for me to decide. Though, personally...I'd have just taken the Game Boy back to store for a refund, and the "Hellion" would've gotten zilch for Christmas. Well...maybe a card. A cookie if he cried. Nah, not even that. __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

12-06-2006, 08:40 AM	#6 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	Too many people who have kids dont understand the difference between Parent and Friend. Who cares if your kid is mad at you? Do your job darn it! __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

12-06-2006, 09:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
Xera Crazy	I think calling the cops was a good idea. That is raising your kid, letting him experience the highest level of negative consequece for negative behavior. I'm just wondering why it had to get this far before the mom decided to do that? If she had brought the highest level of consequence to bear from the begining then this would not have been necessary. Also I agree that the kid should not be getting a gameboy for christmas. this mom probably had to work for a week for the wages to pay for that gameboy. This is a kid that is spoiled to the core. I dont know it's been decided that kids should not be spanked by so many people. There is the ideal out there that kids can be redirected and that simply praising and rewarding good behavior will get that behavior repeated. BULL SHIT. I mean that is one part of it. but that cannot be the whole kit and kaboodle to parenting. Likewise if all you ever do is punish you kid then you wind up with problems. Negative actions have negative consequences. Deal with it or don't have kids that grow up thinking that they should be allowed to sue their boss because they got fired when they mooned the customers- one of my coworkers at the hardware store a few years back did that, and now I see what kind of house he came from. __________________ ~~^~<@Xera @>~^~~ "A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing." ~Erno Philips

12-06-2006, 08:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	While I generally agree with you, I think this case is a little different from the unruly hellions I end up next to in restaurants and on airplanes. From the commentary on the police report, it's clear this kid is a major handful. He's been kicked out of school, he's got priors on his record for disorderly conduct and assaulting a police officer. While mom is clearly not blameless in any of her child's behavior, I can sort of get behind her calling down the full consequences of his actions. If she'd started doing that years ago, maybe things would be different for him now. A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again.

12-06-2006, 09:40 AM	#8 (permalink)
Lasereth Knight of the Old Republic Location: Winston-Salem, NC	Did anyone read the actual report? This kid is a hellion. If my kid did all of the shit that he did, and he finally ripped open a present that was bought on good intentions, I'd go apeshit as well. The mom obviously called the cops based on his history of behavior, not just the present. __________________ "A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

12-06-2006, 10:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	When I read the police report, I don't see HIS history of behavior. I see HER history of ineffectiveness and inaction. That child did not pass through some dimensional membrane as is. He was raised by her to be exactly the way he is now. Every item in that police report represents a missed opportunity by her to step up to the plate and teach her child responsible behavior. __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed. Last edited by warrrreagl; 12-06-2006 at 10:22 AM..

12-06-2006, 10:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Average_Joe Psycho Location: Under the Radar	I couldn't open the link due to a filter on my work computer, but I would have to believe that in order for the police to charge him with petty larceny this would have to be more than just opening a present. Did the story in the link actually say that the present was for him? Did he do more than just open the wrapping paper...perhaps he played with it too, or even took it outside of the house? When he got caught perhaps he refused to return it? In this case I have no problems that the parents called the cops because it is stealing.

12-06-2006, 10:45 AM	#11 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	He's 12. She's 27. Do the math. Obviously she wasn't taught responsibility and consequences of action when she was his age or so...where would she get the hint about teaching her own kid? I'm with Shesus-Ya just wanna smack some parents upside their heads when they make those "I don't want him mad at me" comments. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

12-06-2006, 11:26 AM	#12 (permalink)
macmanmike6100 High Honorary Junkie Location: Tri-state.	ratbastid: "A parent's rules should be like gravity. Gravity never explains the rules. Gravity just enforces the rules, universally, immediately, and without deviation. Mess with gravity's rules, you end up on your butt, no matter how much you whine or pout about it. By the time we're 2 or so, we've got that figured out, and we never question gravity's rules again." Brilliantly said.

12-06-2006, 11:29 AM	#13 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	"Playstation Game Boy" - that bit cracked me up. Pimp smack the kid upside the head, that'll teach the little ****. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

12-06-2006, 12:32 PM	#15 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	I can't figure out what laws were broken here. And why waste all this money bringing cops in when the parents have the responsibility. Don't they have better things to do? If the mother can't handle the kid he should by taken away and someone that can handle him take care of things. __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

12-06-2006, 12:39 PM	#16 (permalink)
Vincentt Addict Location: Tokyo, Japan	This reminds me of the 911 clip where the parent calls in about her daughter and the operator says "Do you want us to come shoot her." __________________ .

12-06-2006, 12:48 PM	#17 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I'd like her to pay the thousands of dollars it costs to arrest someone to the police department and make a public formal apology to everyone who's ever been a victim of a real crime, only to have the police busy with the insane rantings of a complete idiot. Also, kudos to NG for pointing out that she couldn't keep her irresponsible legs shut when she was 15.

12-06-2006, 01:35 PM	#18 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	It is tough to be a single parent. A boy needs a father. Things like this really don't surprise me anymore with the decay of the family these days, kids are absolutely ill-behaved and borderline criminal (I live in LA where I see poor juvenile behavior on a daily basis). Regardless of how irresponsible she was/is, it was better for her to call the cops than to just ignore it or let it go. What ever happened to it takes a village? I believe there are some people on this board who watch their neighbor's kids on a daily basis etc. A single mom trying to raise a boy is quite a handful. Oh and hey, who knows, maybe the arrest will scare him straight. When I was in high school, they made us visit a prison and meet these criminals (I was in a special program). That was one of the scariest experiences of my life. Made me think twice about being "disruptive" cause the last place I wanted to end up was there.

12-06-2006, 02:17 PM	#19 (permalink)
Sultana Falling Angel Location: L.A. L.A. land	She was utilizing resources that are not in line with the "crime" comitted--there was no crime. I'd rather the police officer's time be used to prevent/resolve real crime (i.e., where a law has been broken) rather than as a ineffective parent's disciplinary device. If I was the victim of a car-jacking, or a break-in robbery, or a violent domestic disturbance, and had to wait several more hours before getting face-to-face police time because of an incident like this, I'd be furious. __________________ "Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath. At night, the ice weasels come." - Matt Groening My goal? To fulfill my potential.

12-06-2006, 02:29 PM	#20 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I agree with Sultana on this... this is a big waste of police resources. Some real crime is being neglected at the expense of this idiot woman and her poorly trained child. By the way, ratbastid? Gravity? I love it and plan on using that explanation with my kids. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

12-06-2006, 06:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	But there was a crime. He stole a GameBoy from his Grandmother. And I agree with the Mother, especially the part where she says she would rather call in her own son for something small, then it be someone else calling in a bigger crime down the line. In my family, I would have gotten a belt across the ass for pulling something like that. But parents do need to have the power in the family, and it takes one normal officer a few minutes to keep the kid from ending up in jail for a lot longer in the future, I don't think it is a problem.

12-06-2006, 06:23 PM	#24 (permalink)
Lady Sage Mistress of Mayhem Location: Canton, Ohio	How does one steal a gift? Just curious... __________________ If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch.

12-06-2006, 06:59 PM	#26 (permalink)
jth Insane Location: HRM	am I the only one that things it's insane that they actually arrested a 12 year... Boys will be boys? It really seems amazing to me that a parent would do that to their 12 year old... to call the cops on them for something so insignificant in the big scheme of things... why get the police involved... in fact if I have children my children would not ever have to worry about police, they would have to worry about the consequences (not physical) of going against the word of their Mother and Father. I was raised that their word was scripture and when they said "No" it meant "No", not "maybe", not sorta, not "later perhaps". little jth: Can I go to over to my friend's house? Daddy: No end of discussion. Not that it was mallicous or it was always a "No". In fact I got to do whatever I wanted for the most part until I was a teenager. It seems that when these parents don't build up trust between themselves and their children that there is no hope for them in the future.... so might as well call the cops __________________ "A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

12-06-2006, 07:12 PM	#27 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	I don't see why the police should have even bothered with this.

12-07-2006, 04:36 AM	#30 (permalink)
Psycho Dad Mulletproof Location: Some nucking fut house.	^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said. Not only did the police waste 100% of their time dealing with this little shit, they had to most likely file reports wasting more time. Filing charges? Let's hope they get dropped so this doesn't waste the courts time. __________________ Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

12-07-2006, 05:51 AM	#31 (permalink)
flat5 Very Insignificant Pawn Location: Amsterdam, NL	This lady needed some help raising her child. She got some. I hope she gets more. She has been dealing with this problem for 12 years. That's all I know about the situation.

12-07-2006, 06:36 AM	#32 (permalink)
florida0214 Crazy Location: South Florida	This is way too Fucked up. I mean I had shitty parents but this takes the cake. It is really a shame that parents are depending on society to raise their kids. IOM they should have taken away the mother for wasting the police officers time. THis is a petty dispute that could have been resolved at the family level. __________________ "Two men: one thinks he can. One thinks he cannot. They are Both Right."

12-07-2006, 06:49 AM	#33 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	Y'all are missing the truly important question.... Did the police taze him? __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

12-08-2006, 06:52 AM	#40 (permalink)
flstf Easy Rider Location: Moscow on the Ohio	It is kind of funny to think of the police enforcing proper Christmas gift giving protocal. The Christmas police, has a nice ring to it, perhaps we can have them make a list and check it twice to find out who has been naughty or nice.