Dexter Morgan

My responses in another thread led me to think that this could use its own thread. If it's been done before, my apologies.

I'd like to hear some philosophies and opinions on sexual exclusivity (in relationships, marriages, etc). I'm aware that it has its roots in promoting family and stability, but it has no doubt evolved into such a major component of relationships that a single indiscretion has been known to destroy otherwise solid partnerships.

What is it about the thought of your partner having sex with someone else that is truly upsetting? And say, for instance, it didn't involve lying - since many people claim that it's not just the sex, but the dishonesty that hurts them, would it hurt less or not at all if your partner were honest about it? What would you do if your significant other said, "Honey, I really feel like having sex with someone different tonight. I think we should look into it." Do you think the resultant jealousy is a hard-wired instinct, or passively taught? If it's taught, can it be un-learned?

Amaras

Dude, good idea for a thread!
My response to your last bit is back in the other thread.

I'm old school, I believe in exclusivity. I want honesty, especially when it's going to hurt. Dishonesty at those times, I find, ends up in tragedy. I like the idea that passion between two people can be like a living thing, expanding & contracting, but always growing and evolving.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

Dexter Morgan

No, but that's part of what I was saying in the first post: what if it didn't involve dishonesty? Basically, what stops two people from looking at each other honestly and saying, "We want to sleep with other people for a change"?

Normally, it's jealousy.

But where does that jealousy come from? Is it territoriality? ("Another man's dick shouldn't be in there, that's mine.") Is it insecurity? ("He/she could be better at sex than me, and he/she will not want me anymore"). Is it because we think sex is somehow an integrated component of love, rather than JUST a physical activity that can be done regardless of emotional bond to a person?

Amaras

I see what you're saying, I think. If my partner asked, right now I think I would become indignant. Why? Territoriality and jealousy? Absolutely they would be big components.
I don't believe sex IS a necessary component of love however. If your love allows it, and your partner agrees, swing away. Seriously, I don't judge someone else's love. If it works, it works. I've had plenty of emotionless sex. For me, it was fine at the time. Where I am at now, no thanks.
Elsewhere, there was a thread "What are the dangers of kissing?". About three responses down someone posted "Falling in love."
So while I don't think love & sex HAVE to be inextricably bound, it's just a risk I'm not willing to take.

__________________
Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state.
-Noam Chomsky
Love is a verb, not a noun.
-My Mom
The function of genius is to furnish cretins with ideas twenty years later.
-Louis Aragon, "La Porte-plume," Traite du style, 1928

ratbastid

Ironically enough, that was me.

I have a lot to say on this topic, but since it might have a tendency to curtail participation in the thread, I'll hold off until the discussion has ripened a bit.

little_tippler

Some years ago, I was a firm believer in exclusivity at all times. That is not to say I no longer believe in that, but I am less inflexible about it. What has changed? Perhaps I believe in romantic love-can-conquer-all stories a little less, and I'm more practical. I am also more in tune with myself sexually.

Most relationships I have been in, I didn't feel the need to look at or be with others. It's like I'm hard-wired that way. Makes it easy for me to just be monogamous. It's not hard for me to do. It doesn't scare me to think, oh my goodness I will only be with this particular person sexually, for a long time. I crave variety, in terms of how the sex is had, but when I am into someone, I am into them. I don't actually want another body. In fact, that is usually a turn off.

With age though, I find that I feel more open to being approached with that sort of conversation, where I might be willing to consider the occasional, let's have sex with other people a couple of times, for fun. If I'm into it, and the mood takes us, and there is a lot of trust, why not? I'm not sure I'd be the one to initiate this kind of thing though. Not yet anyway.

I feel that when I choose to be faithful and monogamous, it's an easy thing for me. I don't want to look elsewhere. But I am open to discussing and trying different things.

When I feel possessive, and I have those moments like anyone, I don't want to share my SO. Why? Because I love their body and mind to bits and I want their full attention on me, exclusively - and on no one else. Rawr!

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

settie

I think there are so many factors involved. It depends on the connection/relationship you have with your partner (some people are together, and ok with an open relationship), the level of commitment, your sexual behaviour and standards, and the degree with which you connect love and sex.

Some people don't connect the two at all, making it easy to cheat, or easy to be sexually attracted to others and let their SO know. Emotionless sex isn't impossible, but its not what humans strive for so much. Humans don't want just sex, they want great sex, and lots of great sex.

I'm sure most will agree that connective/emotional sex is much better than a quick fuck.

Now for the question

My boyfriend and I are committed to each other, and were each other's first sexual partner. We are friends first, and lovers second, so we have a 100% honesty pact. No bullshit, no keeping things from each other.

I asked him once how he figured he would act if he cheated on me. No bullshit, he'd let me know right away. I respect that.

Now, if he asked me before-hand. If he was sexually attracted to someone else and asked me if he could fuck her, well, of course I'd be upset. Why? Its not the lying or the dishonesty because it doesn't exist in this situation... he's telling me before the cheating what his desires are.

I think its simply the insecurity, and the "what-if?" factor. If I was in a situation like that with my boyfriend, I think I would immediately wonder why he feels he needs to fuck someone else with no emotional connection to, and what if one develops between them because of it? Am I that easily replaced? And if I am, does commitment really exist? Are humans capable of it for Christ's sake?!

That fear of being replaced is what immediately puts that terrible feeling in my chest. If we can be so easily replaced, no relationship is meaningful, and suddenly, commitment means nothing.

Lust can be a powerful drive, but it does not control us. To give into that lust, when you have something with someone, and cherish that connection, makes no sense to me. Why trade lust with love? Lust is always available, love isn't. REAL love, that is.

Now, my answer is based on the level of commitment. Plenty of couples out there aren't fully committed to each other. If you don't feel really connected to that person, or if it's not mutual, cheating is a lot easier to do, for both parties. But if you're in it for the long run (aka marriage), well, it'll definitely be harder. heh. Or maybe, you're just denying your real level of commitment to your partner, and to yourself.

allfullup

The media models shock, indignance and disappointment as appropriate reactions to the request to open a relationship. Very rarely is having multiple partners modeled as a sensible, fulfilling course of action, let alone a just or right one. (Those who read Terry Moore's otherwise excellent graphic serial Strangers in Paradise and dropped out after a few issues understand what I mean.) I think it's this lack of positive modeling that keeps a lot of people from functioning in or even considering any form of relationship but the one tried-and-true monogamous, all-encompassing, one-flesh fairy tale. The lack of positive modeling has any number of dubious explanations, not least that it invalidates the universal applicability of a cheap and easy subplot that resonates with insecurity. Done right, secondary partners augment, not replace.

Anyway, in the cases where I've had jealousy, it's usually because I've felt like I was unjustly left out of something that I (usually erroneously) believed was mine to have. Which is to say, not getting my needs met, which in turn is usually me not seeing to it that my own needs were met.

But as for the OP's question, I'd most likely respond, "Did you have anyone in mind? Bring 'em over and let's hang out and make sure they're real."

Dexter Morgan

Well first off, what are you calling cheating - is cheating being dishonest about outside sex, or is cheating ANY sex that takes place outside of two people in a relationship, even if they both know and approve?

Secondly, I think that's a bit of a simplistic appraisal. I can have all the commitment in the world for someone, emotionally and romantically, but get tired of their penis (or the presence thereof, since I'm bisexual) now and then. It has absolutely nothing to do with my love for them, no more than it does if they insist upon making me pizza to eat every night, and I get tired of the same dish night after night. In my opinion, I think it's entirely possible to be completely in love and committed to one relationship, yet want variety sexually with other people.

Does this go for purposefully open marriages, in your opinion, as well? Are you saying that you believe that acting upon any desire to sleep with someone else while in a relationship directly correlates to a lack of commitment?

inBOIL

I think a lot of it is fear of your partner starting a new relationship with someone else and leaving you. Sex without emotional intimacy is possible and common, but it's very easy for emotion to spark and grow. Once that emotion is there, it's very tempting to let it grow, and very hard to break things off with the other person, even at the risk of losing your existing relationship. If you want to maintain emotional exclusivity, your partner has to have the willpower to end any liaison should it get emotional, and the self-awareness to realize that emotion is there before it gets too big. A lot of people lack that combination of high self-awareness and strong willpower.

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Manic_Skafe

I've always imagined a truly health relationship to be on that includes self-reliant individuals who are comfortable enough in themselves to let go of jealousy and possessiveness. I'd like to hope that whenever my relationship gets there I'll be more than comfortable enough to accept the fact that my lover will desire other people sexually.

It's just sex. And more importantly, I don't ever want to feel like I own her.

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"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

settie

In that case, when I typed out that sentence, I was referring to couples that cheat dishonestly. That's based on personal experience. I wasn't very connected on any level to the person I was seeing, so I didn't really give a damn whether I looked to someone else for sexual gratification. Once I realized that, I told them the truth, and left.

It is simplistic, and general, yes. Everyone's different of course. As for your pizza analogy: Anyone would get tired of their SO if they were stuck on plain old vanilla sex. If you're unwilling to spice it up in the bedroom, of course you'll go to others for something different, and that thrill of sleeping with someone new is always exciting. But it'll likely just happen again... they'll become just as dull sexually as your SO. Thus, if you're fully committed to one person, I think you're much more likely to keep your sexual lifestyle always changing and exciting. I've experienced both sides of the spectrum. I've been in a relationship where I was very sexually attracted to my boyfriend, then suddenly have that attraction disappear, and look elsewhere for sexual gratification. That relationship died quickly once I did that, because that connection we had was gone, and that "vanilla sex" killed it. haha. Now, in my current relationship, we're so open and willing to try new things, our sex life is never dull... and I don't think it will ever be dull for us.

Hmm, I didn't consider open marriages. I think they're different altogether. Couples in open marriages seem to have a good connection socially, but not sexually. I've never seen a successful open marriage last more than 4 years. Why? You're always looking elsewhere for pleasure, what's the point of that sexual commitment now? How can your relationship still be the same with other sexual partners involved in your sex life? Wouldn't you think (no matter how much you separate sex and love, or sex and emotions) that sex would affect your other relationships? I think so.

Bingo. You said it ten times better than I could have ever put it.

I don't know. Like I said, I've experienced both sides: I've been the cheater, I've been cheated on, I've been in open relationships, and now I'm in a fully committed relationship. So far the latter has been the best by far.

abaya

/me waits for ratbastid et. al. to get in here and correct the notions being put forth about "open marriages" (or polygamy, more accurately). No one can do it like you do, rb!

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

ratbastid

I'm waiting on that for a bit. I don't want to stomp on discussion too badly. I've done it before, in threads like this.

BTW, it's polyamory, not polygamy. BIG difference.

abaya

Sorry, sorry!! I admit I had just woken up and was not thinking very clearly. I should know better, obviously.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

SabrinaFair

Like most socially conditioned notions, the idea of exclusivity is something I've spent a lot of time questioning (its my nature to challenge things). And honestly, I've never really come up with an answer that suits me. It doesn't help that I've never met anyone with I'd like to make a life commitment, so the idea of exclusive marriage is something that's hard to wrap my head around. Of course, it's also hard to completely throw away my conditioned response that monogamy = good. So, in answer to your question, I'm not sure.

A friend of mine (also a former lover) a notorious cheater, always justified his infidelity as just two people enjoying the same activity. He had completely emotionless view of sex. He only feels guilty for "emotional infidelity." Now, I don't agree with this guy's take on things, but it raises some interesting questions. Which is worse, emotional infidelity, or physical infidelity? Moreover, in the absence of sexual exclusivity (AKA an open relationship), is there some sort of code about emotional exclusivity? I'm afraid I don't know any polyamorists, so I wait with bated breath for ratbastid to weigh in on this thread.

In the end, I can't come up with any better answer than, "Live and let live." I don't judge other people's decisions when it comes to their relationship, so long as they're both happy (and in the know). I still haven't quite figure out my own reaction.

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it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful. Strive to be happy."
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ColonelSpecial

I think that exclusive relationships, including marriage, have been built on the thinking that one person can be everything to another person. They can be friend, confidant, lover, etc. For some people, maybe even the majority, they make this work. They may not be completely happy about it, but they make exclusivity work.

I would say that if my husband came to me and talked about having sex with someone else, but that there was nothing wrong with our relationship, I would seriously think about it and I like to think I would say yes. I agree that it is the dishonesty I would hate more than the actual sex.

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Dexter Morgan

I can totally understand emotional exclusivity, which would put me outside the realm of most true polyamorists; I know my limit would end at the notion of having a deep emotional bond with more than one person. To me, that's the very foundation of a relationship - the emotion, the mental bonding, that more or less IS the whole relationship itself. You can't truly build two completely separate houses on one foundation.

I grew up completely distancing sex from love. I learned that, sure, you can have sex with people you love, but early on in my life, I was more likely to have sex that was just about sex. I'd watch a few of my peers interchange sex and love, and end up devastated when some horny teenager got what he wanted and ended things shortly thereafter. They earnestly believed that, because some guy said, "Don't you love me?" when she refused sex, that sex really DID have deep roots in love.

Thing is - sex is kind of the opposite of love, in my opinion. Sex requires nothing but a desire for pleasure. Sex is coveted and sought by all. You can't gauge love on the amount of sex you have with someone, or IF you even have sex. How would that even work? "I love you so much that I think I want to have an orgasm." People individually get too much out of sex personally, selfishly, for it to have anything to do with love.

Making sacrifices - doing things like staying awake with someone to nurse them while they're sick, helping them do household chores, choosing time with him or her over your friends. Those are all physical actions that more closely indicate love, in my opinion. Sex is probably the poorest indicator of love there could ever be.

However, if I were in a committed relationship and were able to have outside sex, I'd want my partner to be involved with it as much as possible. While I may want someone else to give me physical pleasure, it doesn't mean it has to be a part of my life I don't share with him. In fact, I'd rather it not be.

inBOIL

I've heard of studies that suggest men are more bothered by their partner cheating physically and women are more bothered by their partner cheating emotionally. I think the answer to this is partially biologically based, and it depends on what you're getting out of the relationship. Though I've never heard of a relationship where two people were sexually exclusive but allowed emotional dalliances with others.

__________________
And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

ShaniFaye

Im also waiting for your comments, since we are like minded and you'll say it so much better than me....Im just waiting to make my "ditto" post lol

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stellabella1978

Unfortunately, human beings "pair bond" and usually with whom they are having sex with - if people have sex with someone besides their SO, there is a chance of pair bonding with that other person. So, jealousy takes on a new meaning - it is not just protecting your heart, your feelings; it is protecting your very home situation.

settie

I'm really starting to feel age and upbringing are big determining factors too. But I really have no clue. I don't think something like this can be generalized anyways, because everyone is so different. I kind of regret voicing my opinion now, because it was from personal experience, which isn't much anyways. Ah well.

levite

For me, personally, a lot of this comes down to honesty: generally, monogamy dies a very secret death, and I believe in honesty above all in relationships. I would also imagine that, even given fair warning and so forth, I personally would be jealous of my partner's lover, would be envious and frustrated that my partner wanted something I could not provide enough to seek it with another person, and would doubtless be insecure about the relationship, and about my own desirability. Maybe some people could get past those things. I could not. And I'm OK with that.

That said, I know that there are some people who claim to be able to make open relationships or relations of multiple partners work fine, without jealousy, insecurity, or any negative repercussions. I confess that I am skeptical about this. I have known a number of self-professed open-relationshippers, and several polyamorous relationship groups in my time-- courtesy of, among other things, seven years spent living in Santa Cruz, CA-- and the vast majority of them were kidding themselves: you could cut the tensions in their households with a knife, or at least strum them with a dull spoon. Their lives were a juggler's chaos of insecurities, envy, jealousies, and frustration.

That, in turn, said, I did encounter one polyamorous group which seemed to be enjoying a fairly stable and successful relationship. They were very grounded people, very open and honest with each other, and they appeared to really be supportive and mutually appreciative of each other on every level. I do think, nonetheless, it is worthwhile to note that they were an MFF triad, with a fourth who only occasionally lived with them and joined their relationship; and even they admitted that, as much as they loved him (their fourth), it could be a bit much arranging everything when he was in town. I question whether an equally successful and high-functioning relationship could be conducted with four or more constant participants, or possibly even a triad, if it were MMF.

I think human emotions and needs are difficult enough to deal with just one on one: triads might sometimes be just as feasible (at least MFF triads, given that women are frequently more emotionally mature than men, and more able to make complex psychoemotional compromises; also, it helps that women are bi more often than men), but larger groups just seem to me to be destined to be intolerably entangled within their own crossing psychoemotional dynamics.

In regard to the open relationships, I did meet one couple who had a comparatively successful open relationship-- both partners travelled almost constantly for business, and rarely were in the same country, let alone city or house-- but to me, their relations with each other always seemed more like good old friends (except old friends with privileges) and not like lovers, or husband and wife. I guess it was sufficient for them. I can't imagine it being sufficient for me. I did, being completely honest, also once meet a couple whose relationship was open: they were not in a position to marry (for complicated reasons), but were "bonded for life," and considered themselves exclusively partnered to each other. But they both occasionally dated and had sex with other people, just to "keep busy," as they used to put it. It never seemed healthy to me, but then, it seemed to work just fine for them. They never seemed to have any diminishment of romantic desire for one another, and never got jealous, envious, or insecure.

I tend to think that if people are going to have relationships with each other (that is, psychoemotional bonding that is more than just sex), it generally works best in a well-conducted monogamous relationship. I'm not saying that an open relationship or polyamorous relationship can't ever work in a healthy or high-functioning way, I just think that it is so difficult to accomplish, and demands such a unique constellation of personalities and life circumstances, as to not be worth seeking out for most people.

__________________
Dull sublunary lovers love,
Whose soul is sense, cannot admit
Absence, because it doth remove
That thing which elemented it.

(From "A Valediction: Forbidding Mourning" by John Donne)

curiousbear

If one knows the SO has a sexual desire for others (or rather an other kind of BODY) it is fair and mature to let him/her have it. May be they can together set a list of 'first things first rule' if they want to develop the relationship and committment to the level of confidence. For instance a gf/wife can have sexual desire for women, or different body build types or even ethnicity...
I strongly beleive it should still be avoided with family or friends as there is a strong chance of emotions kicking in...

sometimes I think than sexual desire for others, a strong desire for variety or spice in sexual life, if two couples mingle.. It is interesting. But I think the individual couples have to be very matured and highly committed. such things can go well if the involved people have a strange combo of traits like { naughty silly slutty voyeur pervert nasty } and { trust adventerous generous confidence mutual-respect }. And if they are a totally different physical type, personality type and interests.

I personally have a fantasy my gf exploring girls. Other than that I had not thought or felt about other possibilities

snowy

The level of exclusivity--be it emotional or sexual--of a relationship is something to be worked out by the people in the relationship. It's not really anybody else's business. Exclusivity works for some, but not for others, and consenting adults can figure out for themselves what works for them and what doesn't. I've been in relationships that weren't exclusive, and the men involved with me knew it. My current relationship is exclusive, and to be honest, it would take something--or more importantly someone--really exceptional to make me question that. But we're not the sort of people who wouldn't talk about that sort of thing. If I met a woman that really tickled my fancy, I would talk to my partner about it. He isn't as comfortable as I am talking about members of the opposite or same sex that we find attractive, but it is definitely something we talk about. We also talk about the boundaries of our relationship, and what would constitute cheating for us--because it isn't the same for all couples.

I think in the end, what this all comes down to is open and honest communication with current partners.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

MSD

If you're not fucking anyone else, you can get tested a few times, find birth control that works for you, and ditch the condoms. Nobody likes using condoms.

allfullup

There is "fluid bonding", whereby in a group of people who are sexually involved. a subset of the group agree to go barrier-free only with those in that subset. It's not risk free, and it requires significant trust, but for those who will not or cannot use condoms it is an option that works.

And latex fetishists love condoms.

MSD

OK, you got me there, but who out there can't use condoms? There are non-lambskin alternatives for latex allergies.

RaviNara

I feel that this is the case; that the meaning we put into relationships is a fabrication, designed to help us rationalize doing all the things we do to maintain a regular source of sex and companionship. It helps us deal with our urges and feelings, but that it's an artifact of evolution and that no relationship means any more or less than any other.

It's a little like the tendency of people to put special meaning to random events that occur within their lives and say "Wow, I'm lucky!" or "God must love me!" or anything of that vein. The events are no different than any other possible outcome, but we ascribe meaning to them to make our day-to-day lives easier to deal with and understand.

It's from this perspective that I make my contribution to the question posed by the OP: I feel that sexual exclusivity is totally unnecessary for a relationship to work, but is almost totally inevitable anyway. Any person is capable of dealing with a non-exclusive partner if they are not given an obvious reason to object (like dishonesty), but that people are hard-wired to control access to their partner and so will eventually attempt to end the other partner's other relationship(s). You can see examples of this in relationships where one partner is clearly cheating on the other and everyone (including the partner) knows it, but the partner attempts to ignore or downplay the behavior. These are often people who normally are more jealous or controlling, or at least unwilling to tolerate infidelity.

There are those in whom the hard-wiring does not function the same or as well, and so they are more able to ignore the urge to claim their partner as their own. Some others are able to form a bond close enough that they see their partner as equivalent to themselves in the literal sense, and so their partner having sex with someone else is the same as if they were the one doing it in their mind. However, these people are the exception rather than the rule.


As is always the case where ever I post, no part of this was meant to offend anyone.

Cernunnos

In my current relationship, I am not sure if we are at the point where both of us feel secure enough to separately dabble sexually with other people. We had a few rough patches that nearly ended the relationship and caused a great deal of emotional turmoil, and while we seem to be past the issues that surrounded it, our skin is somewhat tender. What makes matters more complicated is that we are separated by long distance for the following few years, which only allows us to be together through IM, e-mail, and IRC.

We've discussed the situation on many occasions, and what I gathered from it is that neither of us are able to accept sexual exploration with others unless we engage in it as a couple, and since distance keeps us apart, that limits the scope to virtual threesomes. We have little experience with that, however, and we aren't actively pursuing the possibility.

Essentially, we're willing to allow others into our bed, but we won't venture elsewhere unless doing so together.

Cross-Over

I think this is a quality statement about the subject.

If two people who have always been in exclusive relationships chose to dabble, so to speak, then a high degree of self-awareness and strong willpower are essential. Discussing boundaries for dabbling and feelings/possible reactions to it is indicative of having a certain degree of self-awareness, but not necessarily a high enough degree of self-awareness to make it work.

Starkizzer

I have no problem with polyamory, in fact in some ways the idea appeals to me and excites me. But somewhere along the way I have determined its not for me, at least not at this time. im2smrt4u and I are each others only partners...ever. We have never been with any one else and while we do talk openly about the idea of a threesome or something we have both kinda determined that its not really the best option for us. At this point, we are still learning about each other and we don't need to complicate things by bringing in an outside person.

As for one of us going it alone and finding someone to sleep with on our own, thats a deal breaker. As we have both entered into our relationship under the idea that we would be exclusive. The day he wants someone else or the day I want someone else with out each other, will be the day we no longer want each other. (Not sure I'm expressing this right) I want him more than anything and that cancels out any feelings or wanting I may have for anyone else. This is just how I am and I know how he is. But that is due to my upbringing, my mother cheated and it destroyed my dad for a long time.

Neither of us could stand the thought of the other one touching someone else for pleasure. Now if the situation were to ever arise, and we discussed it completely, where we found one person that we both loved and felt attracted to we might bring them into the relationship. But at the moment I feel very much like Lois in the one episode of Family Guy where she gets her black belt:
"This is mine, this is where my babies come from"
I love that segment!

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