A little long winded, but I am calling for any help! - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

trache · 12-31-2007, 05:41 AM

If there are any questions to help make my post fair and balanced, please ask away. I am not interested in painting a poor picture of my girlfriend without trying to honestly explain myself to the public either... on the with show.

Seeing each other for about 8.5 years. She was in high school, I was in college. She went to university about an hour away, and we saw each other as much as we could during that time. Marriage was not in the fore-front of our minds, although it was something we discussed lightly.

She graduated, and I had been working at my job, until I got let go by my employer. At the same time, she had been going to school for another year. She completed a year at a new job, and almost a year went on, and I moved for a new job about 2 hours away. I had that job and lost it 4 months afterwards. All the while, she would come to visit. A got a better job in a larger city. This one was more stable.

I moved my life, and I asked her to be with me, and she did. She wanted a commitment from me before we moved that I would marry her, and I felt that I wasn't ready for one, but that if she moved it would be the "next stage" (in my mind) and I wasn't going to simply break up with her or move on without her or anything similar.

I also was not using that as an excuse to "test drive" the relationship. I cannot emphasize that enough. It simply wasn't the case, and I only wanted to be close to her, to live with her, and start a new life. I felt that buying a ring, with our limited incomes, wouldn't be the smart thing for us to do, especially in these times of student loans, car loans, low paying jobs, and un-stable job market. While buying something small and asking her to marry probably would have gone far with her thoughts of "us", I just didn't do it. I couldn't. Buying something she could be proud to show off was important to me. I wanted her to know, when the time was right, that I meant business and that I wasn't fooling around. I would save for a couple of months when I knew I could in order to buy her a ring.

Because of a hereditary condition in the family, her parents divorced. After a long battle trying to deal with it, her parents split. Not amicably. I'll leave it at that. My girlfriend may develop the condition later, which frightens me.

I should also mention that she is "overweight". I put that in quotes because it's all relative, for those of you who know what I mean. My girlfriend has a short stature, but has wide hips. It is a problem for me in that she always seems to have low self esteem about it. I'm also one of those guys who isn't exactly turned on by petite women, or ridiculously obese women either. I love love love her figure.

During a period about 2 or 3 years ago, she purchased a book by Dr Phil and it helped immensely. I cannot recommend it enough, and it did help her. She smiled! She loved being in pictures! More importantly, my family noticed many times and commented whenever I came home for a visit. Unfortunately, she fell out of that mindset and slowly became more depressed than she had been in recent months. Although I feel I could have dealt with it, I honestly don't know anymore. It means a lot to me to have my future wife be able to run around with her kids, or save one from a pool of water in a flash of a second if necessary.

I would try to encourage her and at the very least tell her I wasn't happy about her mind, more than her body. She wasn't very happy, and where would that lead the both of us? She is very attractive to me, and I understand that both men and women don't exactly look like Greek Mythological figures in later years. I didn't care that in 20 years she might not be the filly I know her to be now. At the very least, I want her to be content or at peace with herself, instead of always upset about the way she looks. I believe this affected a great deal of our relationship.

She always seems to be angry at me, and of course, because I am male, I'll never understand exactly why. She holds a very authoritarian job, so it probably shines through a bit. She'll always ask me if I love her (yes, always!). She'll always ask me if she looks good in that (yes!). She never compliments me. She never tells me she's proud of me, or that she's glad she's with me living our life, etc. She may say or do things that she thinks are up-lifting me, however, it seems like it's just when she sees fit, or that it's half-assed. Not with any feeling. Not with any sincerity. Meanwhile, if I try to tell her that I was sorry (sincerely), I only get trouble when she brings it up years afterwards. She's actually mentioned things that are long dead and buried, however, she'll do that just so she has a leg up ... somehow.

Do I have issues surrounding my parents? Sure. Do I have issues trying to trust her in certain ways? Sure. Does she really need to act spiteful (as she is prone to do when things don't go her way) - maybe not.

She even pushes my magical button by calling me "critical" when I have an opinion (sometimes she asks, sometimes I offer). Why can't she positively work out what's bothering her instead and just tell me instead of trying to win the argument? That makes me become silent, stew in my own anger and generally not be nice for anyone to interact with me for awhile. I don't harbour grudges or even anger for very long, though. I'll often do my best to just forget the argument. She fights with me often for "one-upmanship".

In early August of this year, I went to Europe with my father to visit family. I wanted to bring her, but I couldn't afford it and neither could she. I thought it would be a nice pre-honeymoon trip we could take. While I was away for 2 weeks, she needed to borrow money (because she didn't save any) in order to buy the things she needed. Contacting me was difficult if not impossible, and when I did chat with her in the middle of the vacation, she did not mention the need for money. when I returned I found out, and was pretty upset. She now owed someone close to her a sizable amount of money. On top of her school loan and car loan (I don't have any similar sizable debts EXCEPT a credit card balance).

Two days after I returned, my employer let me go due to hard times at the company. I was unemployed for a month but was able to pay the rent. She didn't pay her share of the rent for August (I think we agreed that because she moved so late, or that she was denied employment insurance for a brief period she didn't have to pay - I honestly can't remember). September was hard for us and I believe she paid her share of the rent. I managed to get a job in early October that is primarily based out of our apartment, while she works during the day. She hasn't paid for December - she asked that I forgive that because she still needed to pay her friend from August's empty bank account during my European vacation.

My computer died. I poured some money into it and unfortunately didn't work any better afterwards. I bought a brand new computer in early November, about $2000. I had been mentioning buying this computer for 3 years here and there, but never went through with it. I mentioned to her that starting right after this, I would be saving for a ring. The thought was I would be proposing in February or early March, and in that time find a compromise or talk about the major issues that were bothering me.

If we reached a compromise, I would be happy as a clam and gladly propose. If not, I would simply have money saved. It's not about the money being saved, it's about the money we have for the future, or our plans for the future.

She broke up with me the Thursday before Christmas. She said she waited until then to make sure we both had time apart. I don't know when her feelings started to change, so I couldn't tell you exactly how long she had been waiting. I'm heartbroken. I feel as though the floor should just swallow me up. She said that I was irresponsible with my money. I think that seeing me buy the computer , or perhaps having a little bit of money to myself was the last straw. She explained to me that she wanted to be on her own and that she wasn't sure why. Like a typical guy, I got a little logical and asked her what about the apartment? What do we do? The first thing she said, not a word of a lie was: "Whoa, don't get so hostile... I thought you'd move out."

My name is the only name on the lease. She didn't ask me about the apartment, and she wasn't taking the high road. She simply thought that because it would put her in a bad financial situation that I should be the one to move out. After all, I can work from anywhere, she said (especially my home town a few hours drive away!). Neither of us have the money right now to pay for first and last month's rent.

After 2 uncomfortable days under the same roof trying to pry answers from her (like a typical guy), we went home separately for Christmas. Of course, I don't have closure from those 2 days. She wrote me a half-assed Dear John letter /on Christmas Day/, trying to tell me that we just weren't meant to be married and that we were better as friends. And of course, after 8.5 years, I'm a wreck. My family is becoming sick of me trying to help. Of course they wouldn't abandon me, but you get the picture if you've been there.

Am I "comfortable" and not really looking for anything better? A little. I am comfortable in the fact that I have (had?) a great girl who seems to understand me. Am I afraid that I am in a big city with very little to say about a social circle? Yes.

The girl and I spoke a couple of nights ago. I tried to bargain with her asking her to please talk etc, but she wasn't having any of it. She said she made a decision and there was NO discussion about it. To be honest, if I held her back somehow, she would later resent both of us for doing so. I don't want to hang on to her in that way - however, I wish she would sit down with me and try to work it out for something more positive in our relationship instead of cutting and running.

Earlier that day, I made myself a plan: a list that would better myself, our environment, and that I would keep at it. If it was a larger apartment, the needed furniture, the need for me to clean up (during the day while I'm working), go to cooking, dance, social clubs (for the both of us)... whatever we both needed... I told her of it, and it still didn't change her mind. She's already made up her mind, disconnected herself from the situation I think, and there is no turning back.

While she hasn't discounted us contacting one another, she hasn't promised *anything*. I mean, *anything*. Her thought is that as long as it's strictly non-committal in all respects, she and I could be friends (or more if it happens) in the future. If she stays, she wouldn't be doing the relationship it's due justice. And I want her to go, but if it isn't obvious already, I want to work it out with her staying put.

She just wants her space, she said, right now. You know, in the end, I do want to marry her.

To the TFP: I need your advice, I need your help. Is there anything I could do for myself, for the relationship? Is there anything worth saving? Can it be saved? Are there ways I can go about this? Is there anything else that you want to know to make things more clear? As I stated before, this does seem to be one sided. I am eager to try to tell both sides as best I can (and as neutral as I can)... so if you want to know something, just ask.

I know you're not my therapist, but I am looking for help!

n0nsensical · 12-31-2007, 06:31 AM

For one thing I would not move out on account of her. If you don't want to move, don't. Even if it means living with her broken up. You are in charge. It sounds like she's the one who can't pay rent. I don't know how she comes to the conclusion that YOU are the irresponsible one.

Maybe its easy for me to say but this relationship sounds like a load of shit you don't need. I would be worried about the state of my relationship anyway if it had trust and intimacy issues like you mention. Since you've been together for so long it will be especially difficult to move on.. but there are other women out there, who won't be so antagonistic. You can't make her want to be with you anyway. And the most likely way to get her back, is to make it look like you are moving on. Don't come across as desperate, she ought to be more worried than you. Women hate it when they break up with a guy who easily moves on and upgrades.

trache · 12-31-2007, 06:40 AM

I forgot to mention: I am not moving out, and told her as such. She is currently looking for an apartment and has said she'll likely move by the 15th.

Delirious · 12-31-2007, 06:53 AM

The best thing you can do is not press her to get back together. It is something that is very hard to do but chances are it will change how she feels.

I was in a similar situation where I couldn't accept that we weren't going to be together forever and I pressed and pressed and pressed. After about a month I told her that I had accepted it and was ready to move on and almost immediately her attitude changed and she wanted to be with me again.

Push-Pull · 12-31-2007, 08:01 AM

Dude, you have been paid a visit by the ghost of relationship future, and with the view from my comfy chair, it looks like this is an opportunity for you, not a tragedy. Yes, I know you feel like shit, yes I know you feel empty, yes I know that you don't want to eat, sleep, or be with anyone else right now, and this is all normal. What you don't see is that all the troubles you two were having would most likely escalate in the future after you were married making it far more troublesome to resolve. It would take a LOT of work before any compromise produced the desired results, and I predict that if you somehow manage to stay in the relationship, there would be a large dent in a block wall from all the banging your head would do against it.

In short, I sympathize, but you're getting a good deal here as is. Stick to your list, better YOUR situation, and move on.

jewels · 12-31-2007, 08:11 AM

I truly feel for you. But I've been on both sides of this situation and you may not like this.

Let her go. Although it may feel unresolved, it's obvious that she's given this a lot of thought. Women, in general, tend to want to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work and she may have been trying to say express something for a long time, or trying to make you see how she's felt. Sometimes we're blinded within the comfort of a relationship and don't see it coming. By the time the other party realizes what's happened, it's too late. The trust is gone because in the mind of the Leaving Party, they feel the other should have known what to do to make all things right, but they didn't and we run away feeling misunderstood. It's a symptom of lack of communication in the relationship, which makes both of you responsible.

She may change her mind, but most likely she won't. Once a gal's made her decision, you can pretty much rely on it. Don't try to convince her, give her that space she needs. If she can come to a realization and is willing to talk again, there's a chance. If you stay in touch, don't bring up anything serious but take cues from her.

I hope I'm dead wrong and do wish you strength to get through this, no matter what happens. I'm going through just about the same for some time now and I won't tell you it's easy.

james t kirk · 12-31-2007, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n0nsensical

Maybe its easy for me to say but this relationship sounds like a load of shit you don't need. .

I was thinking the exact same thing.

Way too much bullshit for me to ever deal with.

Here's my take on your situation - which is worth nothing by the way.

You have very little experience with women. You've been with the same woman since high school by the sounds of it and she was your first love. I know when I was in University, I met what I thought was the girl of my dreams. Tall, slim, beautiful, intelligent, I loved her so much I would have died for her. I was 20, she was 19. We were just a couple of kids who lived with our parents, who met in first year physics class. It was like I was struck by lightning the first time I saw her. Everytime I was walking around campus and saw her, my heart would speed up. I finally got up enough nerve to speak to her once when she was talking about a a physics assignment as being "easy". I said to her, "I don't think it was easy, I'd say it was doable, but not easy" (Meanwhile she had me freaked out because it took a lot out of me to complete that assignment.)

Anyway, I'm getting off track, however, know this. She was my first love and I was crazy about her. As time went on, I put up with more and more of her bullshit because I was so in love with her. She finally dumped me after 3 years because she felt like a train on a track and that track was leading to marriage and all that middle class stuff and she just didn't want it. I was devestated. However, the fact of the matter is that if by some miracle she and I had of married, I am 100% certain that I would have ended up standing on the parapet of the skyway bridge in Burlington (about 200 feet off of the water). We were doomed to failure for sure, and honestly, not because of me or my ways.

As strange as this might sound, from what you have described, I would say that God (and I am using that term strictly metaphorically speaking) is doing you a favour. You might not see it just now, but in time, you will. She sounds like a bundle of insecurity and if you were to stay with her, you'd forever feel like you were walking on eggshells around her. Always having to be so careful of her and her feelings. You can't live that way, it will wear you out.

You sound like a fairly intelligent guy. If you stick to your guns, eventually your work thing will sort itself out with time and experience. Working in the so called corporate world, I can assure you that one of the hardest things to find is someone who can think independently and execute. Your time will come there my friend.

This sounds like a chiche, however, you will meet other women. Other women who will tell you that they are proud of you and that they feel happy to be with you.

Ustwo · 12-31-2007, 09:42 AM

trache you are a very lucky man.

You are lucky because you never married her first.

I was going to tell YOU to break it off with her until I got to her ending it with you while reading.

Thank whatever mythical being you give thanks to and move on without her.

trache · 12-31-2007, 10:09 AM

Thanks for all the replies so far. It's a little comforting to hear that it isn't only an issue with me but with her handling 50% of the relationship as well. Please don't get me wrong and allow me to paint a rosy picture of myself. As the story goes, there are two sides to it and you're only seeing mine.

I imagine tempers may or may not flair but I don't know what will happen in the near future. I feel as though I'll be a ghost in my apartment until she moves out. How can she make me feel this way in my own home?

I do want to work amicably to resolve the situation still, if it all possible (slim to none right now, maybe greater later) but as jewels443 mentioned, once a girl makes up her mind, she's usually not going to change it. I hope that turns out to be false in the future. I'll have to do my best to cope with everything.

I should mention she is a member of TFP. I do not know how active she has been lately - she may or may not read this thread. Although we don't know many of you, I feel as though leaving her name out of this is just.

I would like to hear any more opinions you may have!

Strange Famous · 12-31-2007, 10:25 AM

Well, tbh buddy... its very hard for any of us to give a definite opinion, because however well you told it (and I certainly felt kt seemed like you were being fair) none of us can really KNOW whats going in.

Maybe all there is to do is chill out on things and see where it is in three months.

genuinegirly · 12-31-2007, 10:34 AM

She is saying you two can be friends. There is too much hurt in your heart to deal with that. Give her space. Take your own.

You are blessed that you never married. Marriage would not have solved this problem.

You will both find peace in this.

robot_parade · 12-31-2007, 10:44 AM

trache, it sounds to me like she checked out of the relationship a long time ago. Maybe she decided you weren't going to marry her soon enough. Maybe she just decided to move on. But from what you're telling me, it sounds like the relationship was on autopilot for her for quite awhile. For her, it was over months ago. From what you've said, you did all you could and should to try to make it work. Obviously you only can share your perspective, so maybe there's something else going on...but, it's time to stop trying to make it work, and move on.

You've already made it clear to her that you're willing to try again - if she changes her mind, she knows where to find you. Also, very good to hear that you aren't letting her push you out of your apartment. You don't need to be walked on by her, and she doesn't need to get away with treating you that way. Unhealthy for both of you.

pornclerk · 03-14-2008, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trache

If there are any questions to help make my post fair and balanced, please ask away. I am not interested in painting a poor picture of my girlfriend without trying to honestly explain myself to the public either... on the with show.

First of all, I must say that there are two sides to every story. Even though you have offered her side of the story from your point of view, it still does not make your statements fair until she actually says it herself.

Seeing each other for about 8.5 years. She was in high school, I was in college. She went to university about an hour away, and we saw each other as much as we could during that time. Marriage was not in the fore-front of our minds, although it was something we discussed lightly.

She graduated, and I had been working at my job, until I got let go by my employer. At the same time, she had been going to school for another year. She completed a year at a new job, and almost a year went on, and I moved for a new job about 2 hours away. I had that job and lost it 4 months afterwards. All the while, she would come to visit. A got a better job in a larger city. This one was more stable.

I moved my life, and I asked her to be with me, and she did. She wanted a commitment from me before we moved that I would marry her, and I felt that I wasn't ready for one, but that if she moved it would be the "next stage" (in my mind) and I wasn't going to simply break up with her or move on without her or anything similar.

I also was not using that as an excuse to "test drive" the relationship. I cannot emphasize that enough. It simply wasn't the case, and I only wanted to be close to her, to live with her, and start a new life. I felt that buying a ring, with our limited incomes, wouldn't be the smart thing for us to do, especially in these times of student loans, car loans, low paying jobs, and un-stable job market. While buying something small and asking her to marry probably would have gone far with her thoughts of "us", I just didn't do it. I couldn't. Buying something she could be proud to show off was important to me. I wanted her to know, when the time was right, that I meant business and that I wasn't fooling around. I would save for a couple of months when I knew I could in order to buy her a ring.

I do not believe that asking someone for a committment in that sense is unreasonable. You asked her to move and be with you and also give up her life in her home town. That is a big committment and sacrifice that she is giving to you. After 8 years I don't think a marriage proposal is unreasonable. I firmly believe that no one will ever be in a perfect financial situation. What exactly where you waiting for?

Because of a hereditary condition in the family, her parents divorced. After a long battle trying to deal with it, her parents split. Not amicably. I'll leave it at that. My girlfriend may develop the condition later, which frightens me.

How do you know this for sure? Why would you continue a relationship if you were that scared about the future? It doesn't seem fair.

I should also mention that she is "overweight". I put that in quotes because it's all relative, for those of you who know what I mean. My girlfriend has a short stature, but has wide hips. It is a problem for me in that she always seems to have low self esteem about it. I'm also one of those guys who isn't exactly turned on by petite women, or ridiculously obese women either. I love love love her figure.

During a period about 2 or 3 years ago, she purchased a book by Dr Phil and it helped immensely. I cannot recommend it enough, and it did help her. She smiled! She loved being in pictures! More importantly, my family noticed many times and commented whenever I came home for a visit. Unfortunately, she fell out of that mindset and slowly became more depressed than she had been in recent months. Although I feel I could have dealt with it, I honestly don't know anymore. It means a lot to me to have my future wife be able to run around with her kids, or save one from a pool of water in a flash of a second if necessary.

I would try to encourage her and at the very least tell her I wasn't happy about her mind, more than her body. She wasn't very happy, and where would that lead the both of us? She is very attractive to me, and I understand that both men and women don't exactly look like Greek Mythological figures in later years. I didn't care that in 20 years she might not be the filly I know her to be now. At the very least, I want her to be content or at peace with herself, instead of always upset about the way she looks. I believe this affected a great deal of our relationship.

Did you ever think that maybe there was another underlying issue here? Maybe her real issue was not her weight, but something else. Did she ever have any traumatic life experiences that caused her to be depressed? I don't think you should pass judgement on her in this sense. It is just not fair. Maybe you should have tried to make her feel good in other ways rather than always making it about her appearance, be it positive or negative.

She always seems to be angry at me, and of course, because I am male, I'll never understand exactly why. She holds a very authoritarian job, so it probably shines through a bit. She'll always ask me if I love her (yes, always!). She'll always ask me if she looks good in that (yes!). She never compliments me. She never tells me she's proud of me, or that she's glad she's with me living our life, etc. She may say or do things that she thinks are up-lifting me, however, it seems like it's just when she sees fit, or that it's half-assed. Not with any feeling. Not with any sincerity. Meanwhile, if I try to tell her that I was sorry (sincerely), I only get trouble when she brings it up years afterwards. She's actually mentioned things that are long dead and buried, however, she'll do that just so she has a leg up ... somehow.

My best guess is that you always thought she was angry at you because you are insecure or are making assumptions. As far as never being "proud of you" or "happy to live with you", I think you are wrong. If someone wasn't happy to be with you then why would they move a far distance to be with you and ask you for a committment? Some people have different ways of expressing things and you are only looking for words.

Do I have issues surrounding my parents? Sure. Do I have issues trying to trust her in certain ways? Sure. Does she really need to act spiteful (as she is prone to do when things don't go her way) - maybe not.

She even pushes my magical button by calling me "critical" when I have an opinion (sometimes she asks, sometimes I offer). Why can't she positively work out what's bothering her instead and just tell me instead of trying to win the argument? That makes me become silent, stew in my own anger and generally not be nice for anyone to interact with me for awhile. I don't harbour grudges or even anger for very long, though. I'll often do my best to just forget the argument. She fights with me often for "one-upmanship".

Why would someone call you critical for no reason? You say she is doing it to push your "magic button" yet maybe she is being genuine in her feelings. Are you a critical person? Do you put her down for bad reasons? Maybe she felt like she was being put down all the time and didn't like it. Maybe calling you critical was her way of saying "it really hurts me when you put me down" or "I don't like it when you say negative things all the time about my decisions." She is probably sincerley trying to communicate with you and you cannot see it.

In early August of this year, I went to Europe with my father to visit family. I wanted to bring her, but I couldn't afford it and neither could she. I thought it would be a nice pre-honeymoon trip we could take. While I was away for 2 weeks, she needed to borrow money (because she didn't save any) in order to buy the things she needed. Contacting me was difficult if not impossible, and when I did chat with her in the middle of the vacation, she did not mention the need for money. when I returned I found out, and was pretty upset. She now owed someone close to her a sizable amount of money. On top of her school loan and car loan (I don't have any similar sizable debts EXCEPT a credit card balance).

Two days after I returned, my employer let me go due to hard times at the company. I was unemployed for a month but was able to pay the rent. She didn't pay her share of the rent for August (I think we agreed that because she moved so late, or that she was denied employment insurance for a brief period she didn't have to pay - I honestly can't remember). September was hard for us and I believe she paid her share of the rent. I managed to get a job in early October that is primarily based out of our apartment, while she works during the day. She hasn't paid for December - she asked that I forgive that because she still needed to pay her friend from August's empty bank account during my European vacation.

I assume that because she didn't pay her rent and actually did pay her friend back, which is good. You seem to say this as though it is a problem for you. If a couple is living together, should they not work as a team and help each other out? It's not like she didn't pay because she wanted to go on a shopping spree, she was genuinely in a rough situation. If you don't hold grudges (as you said previously) then why did you not discuss the situation with her further rather than telling us about it?

My computer died. I poured some money into it and unfortunately didn't work any better afterwards. I bought a brand new computer in early November, about $2000. I had been mentioning buying this computer for 3 years here and there, but never went through with it. I mentioned to her that starting right after this, I would be saving for a ring. The thought was I would be proposing in February or early March, and in that time find a compromise or talk about the major issues that were bothering me.

When a girl is lead to believe that a relationship is not moving to the next stage for financial reasons, and you make a purchase like that, it does sting a bit. To her, that computer was her ring. Why did you not propose and then save for the computer? I can almost guarantee that by you buying that computer, she thought that it wasn't going to happen in the near future. Did you ever tell her of your plans in February? Also you say that you were going to compromise on the major issues that were bothering you before you proposed. If there is that much compromise in a relationship then why did you want to get married? Relationships should involve compromise, no doubt, but they should never be compromising.

If we reached a compromise, I would be happy as a clam and gladly propose. If not, I would simply have money saved. It's not about the money being saved, it's about the money we have for the future, or our plans for the future.

She broke up with me the Thursday before Christmas. She said she waited until then to make sure we both had time apart. I don't know when her feelings started to change, so I couldn't tell you exactly how long she had been waiting. I'm heartbroken. I feel as though the floor should just swallow me up. She said that I was irresponsible with my money. I think that seeing me buy the computer , or perhaps having a little bit of money to myself was the last straw. She explained to me that she wanted to be on her own and that she wasn't sure why. Like a typical guy, I got a little logical and asked her what about the apartment? What do we do? The first thing she said, not a word of a lie was: "Whoa, don't get so hostile... I thought you'd move out."

My name is the only name on the lease. She didn't ask me about the apartment, and she wasn't taking the high road. She simply thought that because it would put her in a bad financial situation that I should be the one to move out. After all, I can work from anywhere, she said (especially my home town a few hours drive away!). Neither of us have the money right now to pay for first and last month's rent.

Maybe in her mind, she thought this seemed reasonable. After all, even though it was your name on the lease, you both contributed to that apartment, financially and in other ways. If you two broke up, why did you immediately think that you would get the apartment? You obviously did because you thought she was being hostile in suggesting you move. Maybe the apartment being close to her work was a huge factor, or maybe it was something else. You don't really know. Maybe she felt insecure about moving somewhere new when that apartment was the only familiar thing she had in the city.

After 2 uncomfortable days under the same roof trying to pry answers from her (like a typical guy), we went home separately for Christmas. Of course, I don't have closure from those 2 days. She wrote me a half-assed Dear John letter /on Christmas Day/, trying to tell me that we just weren't meant to be married and that we were better as friends. And of course, after 8.5 years, I'm a wreck. My family is becoming sick of me trying to help. Of course they wouldn't abandon me, but you get the picture if you've been there.

Am I "comfortable" and not really looking for anything better? A little. I am comfortable in the fact that I have (had?) a great girl who seems to understand me. Am I afraid that I am in a big city with very little to say about a social circle? Yes.

Why would you stay in a relationship if you honestly feel this way? Life is too short to waste time with someone who isn't your true love. Maybe she did you a favour in breaking up with you because you did feel this way. You probably don't see it now, but you will in the future. It's not to say that she is a bad person and not capable of being loved, but maybe you just didn't love her or feel loved the way you wanted to be. It is possible that she even saw this in your relationship and this was a huge reason for her to end it. She is obviously more observant than you might think.

The girl and I spoke a couple of nights ago. I tried to bargain with her asking her to please talk etc, but she wasn't having any of it. She said she made a decision and there was NO discussion about it. To be honest, if I held her back somehow, she would later resent both of us for doing so. I don't want to hang on to her in that way - however, I wish she would sit down with me and try to work it out for something more positive in our relationship instead of cutting and running.

She probably doesn't feel comfortable doing this right now. Usually just after a break up there is a lot of resentment and bitterness and people can't reason clearly.

Earlier that day, I made myself a plan: a list that would better myself, our environment, and that I would keep at it. If it was a larger apartment, the needed furniture, the need for me to clean up (during the day while I'm working), go to cooking, dance, social clubs (for the both of us)... whatever we both needed... I told her of it, and it still didn't change her mind. She's already made up her mind, disconnected herself from the situation I think, and there is no turning back.

Are the things that you are improving the reasons why she left the relationship? Sure, you do need to be responsible and it is good to make those improvements, but I think there is a bigger reason why she left this relationship.

While she hasn't discounted us contacting one another, she hasn't promised *anything*. I mean, *anything*. Her thought is that as long as it's strictly non-committal in all respects, she and I could be friends (or more if it happens) in the future. If she stays, she wouldn't be doing the relationship it's due justice. And I want her to go, but if it isn't obvious already, I want to work it out with her staying put.

She just wants her space, she said, right now. You know, in the end, I do want to marry her.

To the TFP: I need your advice, I need your help. Is there anything I could do for myself, for the relationship? Is there anything worth saving? Can it be saved? Are there ways I can go about this? Is there anything else that you want to know to make things more clear? As I stated before, this does seem to be one sided. I am eager to try to tell both sides as best I can (and as neutral as I can)... so if you want to know something, just ask.

I believe that she checked out of this relationship well before it ended. After all someone once told me that when a woman makes a decision, it is because it is well thought out and there is no turning back.

I know you're not my therapist, but I am looking for help!

Jinn · 03-14-2008, 08:39 AM

12-31-2007 11:44 AM
03-14-2008, 09:52 AM

What?!

highthief · 03-14-2008, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trache

To the TFP: I need your advice, I need your help. Is there anything I could do for myself, for the relationship? Is there anything worth saving? Can it be saved? Are there ways I can go about this?

No, no, no and no.

I'm sorry, but it sounds quite terminal and perhaps that is for the best, you seem to have some very basic differences and issues between you that appear unlikely to be resolved.

neflyte · 03-14-2008, 06:02 PM

I must say, it's about time I heard at least some of the other side of this story. For a while I had many, many unanswered questions. Now, I have a few answers.

I think the both of you should just go your separate ways and be done with it. If the stars align one day and your paths cross again, maybe then something better will emerge. Until then, live life. That's what I did (eventually). From what I know through various sources, you both are doing well for yourselves. Keep it up.

As I know both parties personally, I'll reserve my comments for another time and place. I'm quite sure that if I speak up here, I'll be dredging up events from my own past which I fully intend to keep there.

Treat this as just one more part of life. Reminisce, enjoy the good, accept the bad and move forward.

Daniel_ · 04-05-2008, 12:37 PM

For balance, I'm posting a reciprocal link to http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=133479, and adding the same comments to both threads.

Clearly, Pornclerk and Trache are the couple involved, and it's also clear that both of them have divergent views as to what happened in their relationship.

I suspect that views posted by me and my ex-wife surrounding our separation would look like different stories; it's the way of people.

The death of a relationship is miserable to watch and miserable to partake in. It is never equal - even when people claim to have agreed to split.

People lash out and make hasty choices, which inevitably hurt themselves and others.

I have little to add in the way of solace, other than to say "this too will pass" and that moving on, whilst hard is the only way to live with yourself.

telekinetic · 04-06-2008, 01:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

12-31-2007 11:44 AM
03-14-2008, 09:52 AM

What?!

Yeah, pretty obvious that pornclerk just now stumbled accross this thread. I do find it extremely disingenuous that she tried to write her reply in third person (and also that she didn't reference this thread in her 'bitter' thread, instead letting us connect the obvious dots), and actually nothing she wrote really helped clarify anything (for me) past what they've both written in their versions except that trache, be glad that it ended now and move on.

Daniel_ · 04-06-2008, 09:38 AM

I think it reads like Pornclerk was trying to de-fuse the situation a little and not rack it up to the heights of anger.

Also, there's a few weeks between her post here and here "bitter" thread.

Like I said, there's more in any fight than you can know about unless you were there.

pornclerk · 04-06-2008, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel_

I think it reads like Pornclerk was trying to de-fuse the situation a little and not rack it up to the heights of anger.

Also, there's a few weeks between her post here and here "bitter" thread.

Like I said, there's more in any fight than you can know about unless you were there.

Thanks for your sincerity Daniel. I want closure for both of us in this situation and I guess not many people are picking up on that. It was my intent to de-fuse the comments that trache made and give him some answers. I am bitter about the whole situation and many of the people reading my thread don't realize that I ended the relationship because of things that we both did. If he had chosen to end it, I sense people here would have been on my side.

But like Daniel said, no one was there so only trache and I can ever know what really went on.

creepysusie · 04-06-2008, 12:00 PM

You said
"Earlier that day, I made myself a plan: a list that would better myself, our environment, and that I would keep at it. If it was a larger apartment, the needed furniture, the need for me to clean up (during the day while I'm working), go to cooking, dance, social clubs (for the both of us)... whatever we both needed... "

Keep the plan, just leave her out of it.

Marriage is not something to be taken lightly and under no circumstance should it be actually done until both parties are in the right place (financially and mentally) at the same time. Financial problems will arise in marriage, but don't let it be the first thing that causes the problem. You should rather have a fight concerning over caterers or date and location than serious financial issue whilst engaged.

It seems that her affection was never really there. As for closure, I highly reccommend doing the things you wanted to do to better yourself. As you said, it takes two to tango, it might be wise to figure out where things went wrong in the relationship to avoid said potholes in future circumstances. Take up some of your hobbies, go out, learn something new and prove to yourself that as a single person, you can still function. After getting out of a long term relationship, it is hard to remember what it is like to be single.
Sometimes, love really does suck.
Lovers come and go, but true love is stronger than this.

12-31-2007, 05:41 AM	#1 (permalink)
trache Insane	A little long winded, but I am calling for any help! If there are any questions to help make my post fair and balanced, please ask away. I am not interested in painting a poor picture of my girlfriend without trying to honestly explain myself to the public either... on the with show. Seeing each other for about 8.5 years. She was in high school, I was in college. She went to university about an hour away, and we saw each other as much as we could during that time. Marriage was not in the fore-front of our minds, although it was something we discussed lightly. She graduated, and I had been working at my job, until I got let go by my employer. At the same time, she had been going to school for another year. She completed a year at a new job, and almost a year went on, and I moved for a new job about 2 hours away. I had that job and lost it 4 months afterwards. All the while, she would come to visit. A got a better job in a larger city. This one was more stable. I moved my life, and I asked her to be with me, and she did. She wanted a commitment from me before we moved that I would marry her, and I felt that I wasn't ready for one, but that if she moved it would be the "next stage" (in my mind) and I wasn't going to simply break up with her or move on without her or anything similar. I also was not using that as an excuse to "test drive" the relationship. I cannot emphasize that enough. It simply wasn't the case, and I only wanted to be close to her, to live with her, and start a new life. I felt that buying a ring, with our limited incomes, wouldn't be the smart thing for us to do, especially in these times of student loans, car loans, low paying jobs, and un-stable job market. While buying something small and asking her to marry probably would have gone far with her thoughts of "us", I just didn't do it. I couldn't. Buying something she could be proud to show off was important to me. I wanted her to know, when the time was right, that I meant business and that I wasn't fooling around. I would save for a couple of months when I knew I could in order to buy her a ring. Because of a hereditary condition in the family, her parents divorced. After a long battle trying to deal with it, her parents split. Not amicably. I'll leave it at that. My girlfriend may develop the condition later, which frightens me. I should also mention that she is "overweight". I put that in quotes because it's all relative, for those of you who know what I mean. My girlfriend has a short stature, but has wide hips. It is a problem for me in that she always seems to have low self esteem about it. I'm also one of those guys who isn't exactly turned on by petite women, or ridiculously obese women either. I love love love her figure. During a period about 2 or 3 years ago, she purchased a book by Dr Phil and it helped immensely. I cannot recommend it enough, and it did help her. She smiled! She loved being in pictures! More importantly, my family noticed many times and commented whenever I came home for a visit. Unfortunately, she fell out of that mindset and slowly became more depressed than she had been in recent months. Although I feel I could have dealt with it, I honestly don't know anymore. It means a lot to me to have my future wife be able to run around with her kids, or save one from a pool of water in a flash of a second if necessary. I would try to encourage her and at the very least tell her I wasn't happy about her mind, more than her body. She wasn't very happy, and where would that lead the both of us? She is very attractive to me, and I understand that both men and women don't exactly look like Greek Mythological figures in later years. I didn't care that in 20 years she might not be the filly I know her to be now. At the very least, I want her to be content or at peace with herself, instead of always upset about the way she looks. I believe this affected a great deal of our relationship. She always seems to be angry at me, and of course, because I am male, I'll never understand exactly why. She holds a very authoritarian job, so it probably shines through a bit. She'll always ask me if I love her (yes, always!). She'll always ask me if she looks good in that (yes!). She never compliments me. She never tells me she's proud of me, or that she's glad she's with me living our life, etc. She may say or do things that she thinks are up-lifting me, however, it seems like it's just when she sees fit, or that it's half-assed. Not with any feeling. Not with any sincerity. Meanwhile, if I try to tell her that I was sorry (sincerely), I only get trouble when she brings it up years afterwards. She's actually mentioned things that are long dead and buried, however, she'll do that just so she has a leg up ... somehow. Do I have issues surrounding my parents? Sure. Do I have issues trying to trust her in certain ways? Sure. Does she really need to act spiteful (as she is prone to do when things don't go her way) - maybe not. She even pushes my magical button by calling me "critical" when I have an opinion (sometimes she asks, sometimes I offer). Why can't she positively work out what's bothering her instead and just tell me instead of trying to win the argument? That makes me become silent, stew in my own anger and generally not be nice for anyone to interact with me for awhile. I don't harbour grudges or even anger for very long, though. I'll often do my best to just forget the argument. She fights with me often for "one-upmanship". In early August of this year, I went to Europe with my father to visit family. I wanted to bring her, but I couldn't afford it and neither could she. I thought it would be a nice pre-honeymoon trip we could take. While I was away for 2 weeks, she needed to borrow money (because she didn't save any) in order to buy the things she needed. Contacting me was difficult if not impossible, and when I did chat with her in the middle of the vacation, she did not mention the need for money. when I returned I found out, and was pretty upset. She now owed someone close to her a sizable amount of money. On top of her school loan and car loan (I don't have any similar sizable debts EXCEPT a credit card balance). Two days after I returned, my employer let me go due to hard times at the company. I was unemployed for a month but was able to pay the rent. She didn't pay her share of the rent for August (I think we agreed that because she moved so late, or that she was denied employment insurance for a brief period she didn't have to pay - I honestly can't remember). September was hard for us and I believe she paid her share of the rent. I managed to get a job in early October that is primarily based out of our apartment, while she works during the day. She hasn't paid for December - she asked that I forgive that because she still needed to pay her friend from August's empty bank account during my European vacation. My computer died. I poured some money into it and unfortunately didn't work any better afterwards. I bought a brand new computer in early November, about $2000. I had been mentioning buying this computer for 3 years here and there, but never went through with it. I mentioned to her that starting right after this, I would be saving for a ring. The thought was I would be proposing in February or early March, and in that time find a compromise or talk about the major issues that were bothering me. If we reached a compromise, I would be happy as a clam and gladly propose. If not, I would simply have money saved. It's not about the money being saved, it's about the money we have for the future, or our plans for the future. She broke up with me the Thursday before Christmas. She said she waited until then to make sure we both had time apart. I don't know when her feelings started to change, so I couldn't tell you exactly how long she had been waiting. I'm heartbroken. I feel as though the floor should just swallow me up. She said that I was irresponsible with my money. I think that seeing me buy the computer , or perhaps having a little bit of money to myself was the last straw. She explained to me that she wanted to be on her own and that she wasn't sure why. Like a typical guy, I got a little logical and asked her what about the apartment? What do we do? The first thing she said, not a word of a lie was: "Whoa, don't get so hostile... I thought you'd move out." My name is the only name on the lease. She didn't ask me about the apartment, and she wasn't taking the high road. She simply thought that because it would put her in a bad financial situation that I should be the one to move out. After all, I can work from anywhere, she said (especially my home town a few hours drive away!). Neither of us have the money right now to pay for first and last month's rent. After 2 uncomfortable days under the same roof trying to pry answers from her (like a typical guy), we went home separately for Christmas. Of course, I don't have closure from those 2 days. She wrote me a half-assed Dear John letter /on Christmas Day/, trying to tell me that we just weren't meant to be married and that we were better as friends. And of course, after 8.5 years, I'm a wreck. My family is becoming sick of me trying to help. Of course they wouldn't abandon me, but you get the picture if you've been there. Am I "comfortable" and not really looking for anything better? A little. I am comfortable in the fact that I have (had?) a great girl who seems to understand me. Am I afraid that I am in a big city with very little to say about a social circle? Yes. The girl and I spoke a couple of nights ago. I tried to bargain with her asking her to please talk etc, but she wasn't having any of it. She said she made a decision and there was NO discussion about it. To be honest, if I held her back somehow, she would later resent both of us for doing so. I don't want to hang on to her in that way - however, I wish she would sit down with me and try to work it out for something more positive in our relationship instead of cutting and running. Earlier that day, I made myself a plan: a list that would better myself, our environment, and that I would keep at it. If it was a larger apartment, the needed furniture, the need for me to clean up (during the day while I'm working), go to cooking, dance, social clubs (for the both of us)... whatever we both needed... I told her of it, and it still didn't change her mind. She's already made up her mind, disconnected herself from the situation I think, and there is no turning back. While she hasn't discounted us contacting one another, she hasn't promised anything. I mean, anything. Her thought is that as long as it's strictly non-committal in all respects, she and I could be friends (or more if it happens) in the future. If she stays, she wouldn't be doing the relationship it's due justice. And I want her to go, but if it isn't obvious already, I want to work it out with her staying put. She just wants her space, she said, right now. You know, in the end, I do want to marry her. To the TFP: I need your advice, I need your help. Is there anything I could do for myself, for the relationship? Is there anything worth saving? Can it be saved? Are there ways I can go about this? Is there anything else that you want to know to make things more clear? As I stated before, this does seem to be one sided. I am eager to try to tell both sides as best I can (and as neutral as I can)... so if you want to know something, just ask. I know you're not my therapist, but I am looking for help! __________________ "You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip Last edited by trache; 12-31-2007 at 06:20 AM..

12-31-2007, 06:31 AM	#2 (permalink)
n0nsensical Junkie Location: San Francisco	For one thing I would not move out on account of her. If you don't want to move, don't. Even if it means living with her broken up. You are in charge. It sounds like she's the one who can't pay rent. I don't know how she comes to the conclusion that YOU are the irresponsible one. Maybe its easy for me to say but this relationship sounds like a load of shit you don't need. I would be worried about the state of my relationship anyway if it had trust and intimacy issues like you mention. Since you've been together for so long it will be especially difficult to move on.. but there are other women out there, who won't be so antagonistic. You can't make her want to be with you anyway. And the most likely way to get her back, is to make it look like you are moving on. Don't come across as desperate, she ought to be more worried than you. Women hate it when they break up with a guy who easily moves on and upgrades. __________________ "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." --Abraham Lincoln

12-31-2007, 06:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
trache Insane	I forgot to mention: I am not moving out, and told her as such. She is currently looking for an apartment and has said she'll likely move by the 15th. __________________ "You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip

12-31-2007, 08:01 AM	#5 (permalink)
Push-Pull I'll ask when I'm ready.... Location: Firmly in the middle....	Dude, you have been paid a visit by the ghost of relationship future, and with the view from my comfy chair, it looks like this is an opportunity for you, not a tragedy. Yes, I know you feel like shit, yes I know you feel empty, yes I know that you don't want to eat, sleep, or be with anyone else right now, and this is all normal. What you don't see is that all the troubles you two were having would most likely escalate in the future after you were married making it far more troublesome to resolve. It would take a LOT of work before any compromise produced the desired results, and I predict that if you somehow manage to stay in the relationship, there would be a large dent in a block wall from all the banging your head would do against it. In short, I sympathize, but you're getting a good deal here as is. Stick to your list, better YOUR situation, and move on. __________________ "No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me- "Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown- DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

12-31-2007, 08:11 AM	#6 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I truly feel for you. But I've been on both sides of this situation and you may not like this. Let her go. Although it may feel unresolved, it's obvious that she's given this a lot of thought. Women, in general, tend to want to do whatever it takes to make the relationship work and she may have been trying to say express something for a long time, or trying to make you see how she's felt. Sometimes we're blinded within the comfort of a relationship and don't see it coming. By the time the other party realizes what's happened, it's too late. The trust is gone because in the mind of the Leaving Party, they feel the other should have known what to do to make all things right, but they didn't and we run away feeling misunderstood. It's a symptom of lack of communication in the relationship, which makes both of you responsible. She may change her mind, but most likely she won't. Once a gal's made her decision, you can pretty much rely on it. Don't try to convince her, give her that space she needs. If she can come to a realization and is willing to talk again, there's a chance. If you stay in touch, don't bring up anything serious but take cues from her. I hope I'm dead wrong and do wish you strength to get through this, no matter what happens. I'm going through just about the same for some time now and I won't tell you it's easy. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

12-31-2007, 06:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
Delirious Crazy Location: Queens, NY	The best thing you can do is not press her to get back together. It is something that is very hard to do but chances are it will change how she feels. I was in a similar situation where I couldn't accept that we weren't going to be together forever and I pressed and pressed and pressed. After about a month I told her that I had accepted it and was ready to move on and almost immediately her attitude changed and she wanted to be with me again.

12-31-2007, 09:42 AM	#8 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	trache you are a very lucky man. You are lucky because you never married her first. I was going to tell YOU to break it off with her until I got to her ending it with you while reading. Thank whatever mythical being you give thanks to and move on without her. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-31-2007, 10:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
trache Insane	Thanks for all the replies so far. It's a little comforting to hear that it isn't only an issue with me but with her handling 50% of the relationship as well. Please don't get me wrong and allow me to paint a rosy picture of myself. As the story goes, there are two sides to it and you're only seeing mine. I imagine tempers may or may not flair but I don't know what will happen in the near future. I feel as though I'll be a ghost in my apartment until she moves out. How can she make me feel this way in my own home? I do want to work amicably to resolve the situation still, if it all possible (slim to none right now, maybe greater later) but as jewels443 mentioned, once a girl makes up her mind, she's usually not going to change it. I hope that turns out to be false in the future. I'll have to do my best to cope with everything. I should mention she is a member of TFP. I do not know how active she has been lately - she may or may not read this thread. Although we don't know many of you, I feel as though leaving her name out of this is just. I would like to hear any more opinions you may have! __________________ "You looked at me as if I was eating runny eggs in slow motion." - Gord Downie of The Tragically Hip

12-31-2007, 10:25 AM	#10 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	Well, tbh buddy... its very hard for any of us to give a definite opinion, because however well you told it (and I certainly felt kt seemed like you were being fair) none of us can really KNOW whats going in. Maybe all there is to do is chill out on things and see where it is in three months. __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

12-31-2007, 10:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	She is saying you two can be friends. There is too much hurt in your heart to deal with that. Give her space. Take your own. You are blessed that you never married. Marriage would not have solved this problem. You will both find peace in this. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

12-31-2007, 10:44 AM	#12 (permalink)
robot_parade Junkie Location: San Antonio, TX	trache, it sounds to me like she checked out of the relationship a long time ago. Maybe she decided you weren't going to marry her soon enough. Maybe she just decided to move on. But from what you're telling me, it sounds like the relationship was on autopilot for her for quite awhile. For her, it was over months ago. From what you've said, you did all you could and should to try to make it work. Obviously you only can share your perspective, so maybe there's something else going on...but, it's time to stop trying to make it work, and move on. You've already made it clear to her that you're willing to try again - if she changes her mind, she knows where to find you. Also, very good to hear that you aren't letting her push you out of your apartment. You don't need to be walked on by her, and she doesn't need to get away with treating you that way. Unhealthy for both of you.

03-14-2008, 08:39 AM	#14 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	12-31-2007 11:44 AM 03-14-2008, 09:52 AM What?! __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

03-14-2008, 06:02 PM	#16 (permalink)
neflyte Tilted Location: Kitchener, ON, CANADA	I must say, it's about time I heard at least some of the other side of this story. For a while I had many, many unanswered questions. Now, I have a few answers. I think the both of you should just go your separate ways and be done with it. If the stars align one day and your paths cross again, maybe then something better will emerge. Until then, live life. That's what I did (eventually). From what I know through various sources, you both are doing well for yourselves. Keep it up. As I know both parties personally, I'll reserve my comments for another time and place. I'm quite sure that if I speak up here, I'll be dredging up events from my own past which I fully intend to keep there. Treat this as just one more part of life. Reminisce, enjoy the good, accept the bad and move forward. __________________ "I'm not a vegatarian because I love animals. I'm a vegetarian because I hate plants." -- A. Whitney Brown

04-05-2008, 12:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	For balance, I'm posting a reciprocal link to http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthread.php?t=133479, and adding the same comments to both threads. Clearly, Pornclerk and Trache are the couple involved, and it's also clear that both of them have divergent views as to what happened in their relationship. I suspect that views posted by me and my ex-wife surrounding our separation would look like different stories; it's the way of people. The death of a relationship is miserable to watch and miserable to partake in. It is never equal - even when people claim to have agreed to split. People lash out and make hasty choices, which inevitably hurt themselves and others. I have little to add in the way of solace, other than to say "this too will pass" and that moving on, whilst hard is the only way to live with yourself. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

04-06-2008, 09:38 AM	#19 (permalink)
Daniel_ Evil Priest: The Devil Made Me Do It! Location: Southern England	I think it reads like Pornclerk was trying to de-fuse the situation a little and not rack it up to the heights of anger. Also, there's a few weeks between her post here and here "bitter" thread. Like I said, there's more in any fight than you can know about unless you were there. __________________ ╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗ Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air, And deep beneath the rolling waves, In labyrinths of Coral Caves, The Echo of a distant time Comes willowing across the sand; And everthing is Green and Submarine ╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

04-06-2008, 12:00 PM	#21 (permalink)
creepysusie Tilted	You said "Earlier that day, I made myself a plan: a list that would better myself, our environment, and that I would keep at it. If it was a larger apartment, the needed furniture, the need for me to clean up (during the day while I'm working), go to cooking, dance, social clubs (for the both of us)... whatever we both needed... " Keep the plan, just leave her out of it. Marriage is not something to be taken lightly and under no circumstance should it be actually done until both parties are in the right place (financially and mentally) at the same time. Financial problems will arise in marriage, but don't let it be the first thing that causes the problem. You should rather have a fight concerning over caterers or date and location than serious financial issue whilst engaged. It seems that her affection was never really there. As for closure, I highly reccommend doing the things you wanted to do to better yourself. As you said, it takes two to tango, it might be wise to figure out where things went wrong in the relationship to avoid said potholes in future circumstances. Take up some of your hobbies, go out, learn something new and prove to yourself that as a single person, you can still function. After getting out of a long term relationship, it is hard to remember what it is like to be single. Sometimes, love really does suck. Lovers come and go, but true love is stronger than this. Last edited by creepysusie; 04-06-2008 at 12:09 PM..