squeeeb

been thinking about this for decades...

so many people say "it's not how you look, it's your personality, your brains, your confidence"

yet, what is the first thing a girl does when she walks into anywhere? scope you head to toe (yes, guys do it too, i know). she wants a guy who is tall, buffed, thick mane of fabio hair, perfect skin, etc etc. it doesn't matter if the guy is smart, sensitive, charismatic, all the things any girl says she looks for in a man. if he doesn't look the part, she usually will not give him the time of day to find out what he's made of.

i hear and see these lists of things a various girls want in a guy. i usually have more than one of those attributes. but because i look the way i look (i'm not hideously deformed, i'm just not "sculpted model") it don't matter, i'm not what they are looking for. i am not "attractive."

or so it seems to me. care to disagree?

__________________
onward to mayhem!

spectre

Based on what I've seen with people, both are important to everyone, but everyone has a different balance. No attraction makes it harder to let people see the personality and will have a negative effect on the amount of sex, which will lead to problems. No personality will make it harder to stay long term. That's not to say that one has an effect on the other, but people are more tolerable to lack of one aspect when the other is more important to them.

Oops, didn't see "confidence" when I made the post, but it still stands. Now confidence, that will always help. Confidence, note: not arrogance, will always be a plus. People, in general, tend to follow charismatic people, and the bulk of that charisma comes from confidence. That is always the key.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Ustwo

Being a pretty boy makes your life easier with women, but thankfully its not a requirement.

As a fuck toy, yea its all about the looks, but for a relationship there have even been studies which shows it plays very little role.

For example I have a patient thats a very good looking male. When he first started the women in my practice made comments about him and joked about fighting to get to take his xrays and the like. Well hes not a bad guy but he has a 'weak' personality. Hes still a pretty boy, hell hes even got a 'macho' job, but now they seem to no longer find him attractive.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Johnny Rotten

Stupid is forever.

What turns a girl on initially is one thing. What keeps her interested is... well, a mystery for the ages. But confidence, intelligence, and a sense of humor can help you weather the storm, if nothing else.

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

ngdawg

I have been with what many would consider 'ugly' men, but they were so beautiful...one, I knew the minute I met him, I would be with him. We were together 15 months and I still think about him after 3 decades.
Another, friends actually said 'ew!!', but we had a great relationship while it lasted and him too, I still miss.
While there are definite physical 'turn-offs'(overweight being #1 for me), it's ultimately the personality/interaction that draws me in. Ironically, I don't consider myself the 'beauty' the men in my life have proclaimed me to be and still have difficulty taking their compliments.

Plan9

I'd rather be physical fit than pretty. (OOOH, turns out I am, puts bag on his head)

Confidence is the key to everything in life. Grab life by the balls and yank.

Using what you got like you got what everybody wants. Posture, attitude, hooah.

That is the game. That is how people want to be played.

Like that Death From Above 1979 song babbles over and over:

"Sexy woman, take me to your bedroom... let me show you how I work, work, work."

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

MrFriendly

Dude, this is what most people do, guys, girls, whatever. Except they're usually looking for things that are to their personal taste. Don't ever make the mistake of thinking your not attractive because you don't have certain physical qualities.

I know plenty of gorgeous girls who get all funny in their pants when they meet skinny blokes. All of my male friends have quite varied tastes in what they find attractive in a woman.

So basically, there is going to be someone out there who will find you physically attractive.

This really depends on where you go to meet women. I can see this happening at night clubs and other assorted meat markets.

I used to live in a town where many young women did have this kind of attitude. But where I'm living now, I have never had a girl just walk away and not talk to me if I try to strike up a conversation.

There are a lot of people that will live their lives with a superficial view on life and the opposite sex. And there a lot of people who wont. Go out and find your kind of people man.

__________________
You are not a slave

Hydra1978

I pretty much agree with the above mentioned.

It doesn't matter what you look like, your bound to be attractive to someone. There are so many people out there with a variety of tastes.

Now this being said, there is still that first impression, then it's followed up with personality. I have a lot of friends that are "unique" but they have found some pretty good looking girls that are interested in them for who they are. One of them is married to a gorgeous lady, but their personalities fit completely.

Looks is for first impressions, but your personality is what will make it last. Just got to wait to find someone that will fit you.

__________________
Don't hate me because i'm beautiful. I have so many other attributes to hate me for!

KirStang

I find this to be true. Not to be cocky, but a lot of attractive women and their female friends have called me 'hot.' I'm in pretty good shape (read: nice body), have a decently shaped face w/ proper features, nice hair, dress well, girls turn to look at me when i walk by, etc. etc.

But there has been *so many* situations where I find women coming on to me strong, even going as far as getting physical with me, only to stop after they realize what a boring, studious and straight-laced brick I could be.

The most successful men, in terms of attracting the opposite sex, I find are those who look decent, but know *exactly* the right way to act around people.

In short--looks gets you noticed right away, but it's the personality that really holds em.'

LazyBoy

Its a combination....but I FAR prefer an average young lady, with a good personality. Looks fade with age, but a good personality is gonna stick around...

-Will

__________________
Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...

Hyacinthe

Is that what she's looking for or is that what you THINK she's looking for?

There's some movie (I can't remember the name of it) that has a line a little like

"Show me a gorgeous woman and I'll show you a man tired of fucking her"

You might look at that woman and think she's the most beautiful thing on two legs but your friend standing next to you won't agree. It works the same way in regards to men.

For example before I started going out socially I thought there was no way in hell guys would be attracted to me cause all guys want short petite blondes. Only just starting to realise how wrong I was.

Different strokes for different folks.

And I don't care how hot a guy is if he treats me like shit he doesn't have a chance, takes more then a pretty face to get into these panties.

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

MSD

How odd that physical appearance is the first thing people notice about others.

analog

I agree with this. What makes a person take interest at first might be based on looks, at least to some degree- but for most people, people who aren't insanely shallow, what will keep them interested is that brain of yours.

abaya

I don't know what kind of girls you've been hanging around with... but you need to find a new set. I don't remember the last time I "scoped a guy head to toe," perhaps it was in high school (10 years ago). I certainly did not do it with my husband, or any of the guys I dated in my 20s.

Other than being tall, ktspktsp is none of the above that you mention in that list... in fact, if he was, I wouldn't have given him the time of day. I never liked cookie-cutter men who were clearly tailoring themselves to get "game" or at the very least, attention from women. The fact that my husband was "smart, sensitive, charismatic," as you say, and had a HELL of a sense of humor, and didn't give a shit about game, is what got my attention. (Not to mention his eyes... mmm, how I love those eyes.)

The guy who ended up being the best man in our wedding was also "competing" with my husband at the time, to get my attention, and while he's been known before and since then to have all kinds of game... it was completely a waste of time to try that on me. He has no problem finding ways to get laid these days, but finding a woman to be in a relationship with... yeah, none of them ever work out, though from what he says, they're all hot. Doesn't keep him from being lonely, though.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

MrFriendly

I have a friend exactly like this, no problem getting women into bed, but that's about it.

Although when his attitude is that his quality of character is some how measured by how many women he sleeps with and has said "I just feel sleeping with women makes me feel like more of a man" then that's just the game you play.

__________________
You are not a slave

little_tippler

I have a few male friends who I really love as friends, and who are great, interesting, caring people - they'd make great partners. But I feel no physical chemistry with them.

Similarly, I have met several physically gorgeous men who had horrible personalities, that totally turned me off.

I think you have to like both the inside and the outside for things to work, but what keeps a relationship going in the longterm is clearly personality.

Of course, happily, we do meet a few people throughout our lives that fit the bill for each of us on both counts!

Sadly, I have often wanted to and willed myself to be attracted to male friends who have amazing personalities, but who I'm not physically attracted to, and it just can't be done.

I have a secret for you: you don't actually choose who you fall in love with, even though you may think so

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

xxxafterglow

HA HA HA.....

I think being well-groomed shows you have self-respect. You know how some pretty people seem exotic or mysterious and you're magnetically drawn...

and then they open their mouths and you can't get out of there fast enough!!!

Sometimes you talk to someone that looks totally average/unassuming and wind up being pleasantly surprised by their wit/intellect. That's when they become beautiful.

HELLOOOOOO Clark Kent!

__________________
Uh huh her.

Clare

both, i obviously have to be attracted to some one, but if they have no personality nothing will EVER happen. i can have somebody whos not one of the best looking people and be perfectly happy but give me someone with a bland personality and i'll run a mile

Jinn

The reason that women claim they want personality and really want physicality is a sort of cognitive dissonance. There are 'politically correct' reasons for wanting a guy, and being hot is not one of them. Our society doesn't encourage anyone to openly declare that they only want 'hot' people, but it's still the case. INITIAL attraction is always going to be a physical assessment, as it is largely subconscious (meaning our PC conscious can't affect it), and because there is little else to go on. They don't know your personality, ideals, confidence, etc, so what else do they have to go on?

So yes, being "pretty" is going to allow you to START many more conversations. It's a fact of life, and it's not going to change no matter how hard women try to convince themselves that they want a guy with "personality."

Long-term conversation and dating, however, is largely controlled by the conscious mind. This is where what a woman claims she wants will actually come into play.

So if a woman tells you she wants a guy with "a sense of humor, good personality, goals and a good job who is a great listener" what she means is she wants those AFTER you're dating. What she wants BEFORE you're dating is a mystery to you, and it's probably a mystery to her. It's a combination of subconscious effects, brought about by everything from her heredity to her previous experience with men, including her father.

And before any women read this and think that I'm singling out the female gender, "men" can replace every instance of "woman" in the paragraphs above.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

ngdawg

I'd have to disagree on some of those points, JinnKai.
There are guys that, no matter how 'hot' or charming a woman is, she'll be glanced over because her hair color is 'wrong'. There are guys (and I've known a few) who'd declare they never date a blond, brunette, etc. Similarly, there are those who think that redheads, blonds, whatever, are all a certain way and that's all they'll pay attention to.
I don't see men put 'personality' on the top of any lists, either, but how many times do you see a beautiful woman with a less than average appearing man and think "What's she see in him?" I have yet, in all my decades, to see a gorgeous hunk of a guy with his arm around a less than average looking woman, though.
There were studies done years ago (don't know if they're still applicable, but probably are), that men will choose partners equal to or better in personal appearance.

Terrell

I would think that both are necessary. I would weigh personality as being of more importance, but all the personality in the world isn't going to make me want to be her boyfriend, if she's homely. If she is of average or better looks though she's probably good to go on that side of the equation.

Jinn

I'm not sure how you disagreed. You kinda supported my whole idea that initial attraction is subconscious and relatively impossible to coerce to a PC "I like women with a sense of humor" idea. I did note at the end that the same held for men and women.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

xxxafterglow

ngdawg, that study sounds familiar... I think it may have to do with basic instinct. The beauty industry exists because people want to attract (for sex, power, recognition, etc.). In animal mating rituals, the males compete by flaunting their physical assets (plumage, musk-marking abilities, etc.) so I'd postulate that when we find mates attractive, we subconsciously feel that they are sexually ready, healthy and can produce offspring that others will want to mate with.

However, survival in society is contingent on more than just a pretty face. A good personality and sense of humor makes a mate valuable in a communal setting, the ability to hold a good job and earn money is key to survival, and since our lives are more than just eat-shit-sleep, there are a lot of variables that qualify the "ideal" mate.

Hair color!? Now that's silly (of the men/women).

__________________
Uh huh her.

Racnad

It is true that many for women (and men) physical attractiveness is a very important factor in choosing whether or not to date someone.

It is also true that physical attractiveness at most a minor factor in the success of long term relationships.

The problem is that unless initial attraction occurs, there will be no long term relationship.

A very good looking guy could go on 10 first dates in less than two months. It might take a less good looking guy several years to meet 10 women willing to go on a first date with him, especially if his job & hobbies don't bring him into contact with many single women.

Which one is more likely to have a women get to know him well enough to know if all the relevent factors of long term relationships are present?

So which one is more likely to meet someone?

Datalife2

I find that alot of girls like to make a project out of a guy and work on them. Instead of a guy who is already figured out.

__________________
where's my lighter?

Plan9

Those women need a hobby.

Good people don't change.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

MSD

If you have to try to change people, your standards are ridiculously high or you need to think before you dive in. Sure, there's compromise on small things to make life together easier, but people are who they are and nobody should have to change simply because someone else doesn't like it (unless they're particularly repulsive, in which case they should change for their own sake.)

Jenna

Actually, I scope out chicks more than I do guys.

I'm not particularily picky when it comes to men. But I am pretty picky about the girls I think are attractive.

inBOIL

I know when I meet a woman who has an attractive personality, she actually looks more attractive after I get to know her than she did when we first met. I think for many people, a good personality can help ameliorate an otherwise undesireable appearance.

Jetée

This is a very intriguing point of view, very well-thought out, and one in which I can personally identify with. Not to say that the particular person is unattractive at all, but to have an outstanding personality in addition to the looks coalesces into the overall beauty and attraction I may have to said person.

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

bluestars87

Well, I'm only twenty. But throughout high school is seemed to be the case that if you were a hot guy or whatever, then your chances of getting a girl that was attractive were a lot higher. Now I'm in college and things are quite different I guess. Everyone is pretty much in their own little world at my university.

As for me, I've always been in belief of the whole "Confidence and personality is what's most important." Now I'm not sure if that's true, or if I'm a sucker for believing into it. I mean it hasn't worked thus far, so why should I keep listening to that kind of advice? Good question. I suppose...I still feel like I can acquire a girl that's pretty and has a good persona while still being myself.

__________________
"Every light must fade, every heart return to darkness!"
-San Francisco 49ers: Five Time Super Bowl Champions-

LazyBoy

I'm naive enough to hope that people go for personality, because thats all I've got going for me...

Personally, I need a happy lil combination of the 2

-Will

__________________
Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...

Hyacinthe

Oh so true - was fun to play with those stereotypes though. I got hit on by someone that was generally considered "attractive" (in other words 3/4 of the girls swooned over him but he was just meh to me) I told him he reminded me of a Ken doll. Nice to look at but up top he was pretty hollow.

Brains to me are sexier then much else - only thing that can distract me is a guy / girl playing guitar

__________________
"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

Charlatan

I have met some devastatingly beautiful women that are, simply put, dull as a post. Sure, they make my libido do the mambo BUT that's it. I know from experience that as soon as we have done the deed, there is nothing more there but a need to get away to avoid the awkward pauses in the (lack) of conversation.

The opposite, however, is also true. I have met some extremely intelligent, highly conversant women who are just not what I think is attractive. I can sit and chat forever. Be best friends. But not a lover. It just isn't there. The spark.

For me... the best is a mix of the two. Good looks (and by this I do not mean she needs to be a model, just someone that I find attractive) as well good brains. Thankfully my wife is both of these in one convenient package.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

squeeeb

i have brains and play the guitar, do i count?

__________________
onward to mayhem!