When is too much too much - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

FallenAvatar · 09-10-2006, 10:27 PM

I've brought it up before that I was in a relationship with someone I adore, the only problem is she has substance problems and doesn't know how to get away from them. She moved away weeks ago. We haven't been dating for over 2 months and I know that she picked up a relationship before she moved, the relationship was based on that addiction. She is coming back soon and wanted to come back for the relationship I just spoke of. I'm sure that it will be turned down because I know the individual.

I understand that things for me will never work as long as her problems follow her. I said I adore her and that is an understatement. I love her dearly but can't watch her throw her life away, but at the same time I can't fix things. I don't even know if she loves me anymore but I keep holding on hoping it will fix itself someday. I will keep this woman in my life no matter the cost, my only problem is I don't know if I should try and persue her like I wish to, if I can get herself to clean up. I understand that I can't make her clean up and that's her own choice but I'm so lost in this entire situation. She's too important to me to walk away from but I'm getting close to cutting my loses and thinking that someday years down the line that her and I could work. I know that it is possible, I've seen it in her eyes, we could have been everything together.

I'm kind of ranting here but I'm wondering what people think is the best option. Try and approach as a friend (which I am now) and get back with her if she can fix herself. Try and get back with her and fix things. Or totally walk away.

Nisses · 09-10-2006, 11:43 PM

Totally walk away for a few weeks/months and then come back and be a friend.

If you can't help her fix things for the moment, then all you're gonna do is get frustrated/irritated and it'll rub off on her.

So give her space, give her time, come back later, and *then* see if it's coming together a bit.

FallenAvatar · 09-11-2006, 12:32 AM

I understand what you mean, I just can't discribe how hard this is. The sad part is that I'm pretty sure she doesn't love me like she could have or like she did. The problem is I think of her constantly and think of our times together. I love her deep inside and I know it. I just wish there was some easy way to get rid of the pain, I want to stay her friend but I want to be with her more, and I'm not sure I'll get that option, and I don't want to press the subject but it's what I want. I know the potential is there but unfortunatly I don't know how to harness the power.

jth · 09-11-2006, 03:00 AM

I think you need to explain to her exactly how you feel and then let her know that if she wants to have any sort relationship with you in the future that she needs to get her sh!t together. You need to let her figure herself out I think, it works with any sort of substance abuse relationship... the abuser is generally extraordinarily selfish and will let it destroy whatever relationship they have until they realize that they have nothing left and then start making the changes to try and get some of it back after they decide they wish to clean up. Or they let the drug control every aspect of their life until they die or end up locked up.

Right now said person has no reason to stop abusing. Why would she, you seem obviously very attached to her, so she gets attention from you when she wants it, even if she doesn't want it and still gets to fix when she wants to. Heck, you're still holding onto a relationship after she's moved on 2 months prior.

To help her there are addiction centers all over the place, you can visit one and get a meeting with someone and as a professional for information on how to do an intervention with her, get her information about substance abuse with her drug of choice.

Ustwo · 09-11-2006, 06:40 AM

Wake up, and don't be a sad sack.

Sure you love her for whatever reason, shes treated you like crap, left you, was doing some other guy, and still you are there like a puppy dog.

Forget her addiction, she is treating you like a piece of crap, and don't let the addiction be an excuse for it.

Why drag your life into the same gutter shes intent on dragging hers into? You deserve better.

Jinn · 09-11-2006, 06:47 AM

She's not the only one with an addiction.

I'd personally advise some professional counseling - this is a tough issue that none of us will be able to really help you with. My pesonal opinion is that you need to walk, not run, away and find someone worth your time. You're giving far more than you're recieving, and that's never healthy. Take a long break from her - go out and meet new people, develop new activites and find other things to entertain you. She's not healthy right now, and you fawning over her is not healthy for you.

Most importantly, though.. schedule one meeting with a professional - therapist or relationship counselor..

Ustwo · 09-11-2006, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinnKai

Most importantly, though.. schedule one meeting with a professional - therapist or relationship counselor..

They don't even have a relationship now, and how is that going to get her off cocaine?

As soon as a problem seems serious people start to post you need a therapist, which I think is mostly a way of avoiding the issue. A therapist might be able to help some people save what was once a strong relationship, but they can't build one for you.

Sage · 09-11-2006, 07:06 AM

Ustwo, I think JinnKai was suggesting the OP find someone to talk to about the situation. A relationship counselor could help the OP (sans his lady) because they'd have more expierence with problems encountered in a relationship. I think the OP knows that he's on his own here.

Yes, go talk to someone. Distance yourself from this woman. Do it because you love her. If she ever loved you, she'll come back to that love and it will buoy her up in desperate times, but unfortunately that's something that SHE will have to realize. There's nothing you can do for her right now- this is the life she's chosen and the ball is in her court now.

Ustwo · 09-11-2006, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

Ustwo, I think JinnKai was suggesting the OP find someone to talk to about the situation. A relationship counselor could help the OP (sans his lady) because they'd have more expierence with problems encountered in a relationship. I think the OP knows that he's on his own here.

Only there isn't a relationship here anymore. Take the drug issue out and everyone would be telling him its over, but the drug issue I think clouds peoples thinking. If Fallen wants to help her get off drugs again, thats a great thing, but I'm warning him that as a relationship, forget about it.

Quote:

Yes, go talk to someone. Distance yourself from this woman. Do it because you love her. If she ever loved you, she'll come back to that love and it will buoy her up in desperate times, but unfortunately that's something that SHE will have to realize. There's nothing you can do for her right now- this is the life she's chosen and the ball is in her court now.

This whole concept worries me as one sided. Its saying to me, 'let her use him' and quite frankly people deserve better in a relationship then it being one sided. Whats going to happen when shes back on her feet? I'd be willing to bet shes off again. Being the nice guy thats always there for her, come thick or thin means she has no reason to be faithful or give anything in return, as he will be there for her....again.

hambone · 09-11-2006, 08:45 AM

You love this girl, right? And that is not contingent on the reciprocation of that love back to you? Then my personal advice is to follow your heart. If you love this girl as you say and genuinely wish the best for her, do all in your power to help her. I do agree with all that say a relationship with her in the sense of you two being a couple does not have the odds in your favor, BUT I strongly disagree with the side that tells you to just write her off because she is not good for you.

You can still be there for someone and not be 'used'.
You can give of yourself and not be a considered her puppy dog.
You can extend every possible ounce of help and assistance to better this woman and not lose your own integrity or quality of life.

I will never ever agree that someone is a lost cause. Never. Can you 'change' everyone? Nah. But you can do your absolute best to be a bright point in their otherwise dark life, whether they are able to recongnize it at the time or not.

Not sure if this helps, but I wish you the best.

FallenAvatar · 09-11-2006, 09:31 AM

I understand concerns of the population here and I thank you for the input. I realized I did get used and I was very careful after that point; that's not what draws me to her. There were many of times when I could tell things were there between us and where I could tell things could work out, but I don't think it was the right time in life. Regardless of the chances, I know a relationship may not be the best option and I know I may never get another chance, I still want to help her.

My biggest problem with this situation is I don't need to "look" for someone that can help her. I know a possible source, my only problem is if I take this option I lose everything. Any relationship, any friendship, everything. Her family owns a rehabilitation center; you can't however rehabilitate someone who isn't willing, they just end up coming out worse then they did in the first place.

I thank you on your concerns about a therapist, but I'm going to pass; I understand your goals and ideas for that suggestion but I haven't let it go that far. I'm not a wreck, I'm just a caring person. I hate watching people fall, especially ones that I really care for.

My relationship wasn't always one-sided but I will tell you as her problem started so did the problems with us. I'm nice person and sometimes I get used, I understand that full well. I however get to points where there are certain people in my life that I care for enough to try and protect at any cost, it is a list of a very few people but they are important. Even with all the troubles we've gone through she's still a smart, loving, decent person. I care but I won't let it drag me down, but I will try to help.

The one thing I know is this. If she comes back and wants to fix things I will be willing, if and only if she's clean; if she isn't then the situation will go no farther. So in essence she needs to take the first step, being that she's over 1,500 miles away. (I thank everyone for their help, please continue I'm interested in hearing more from each of you)

jth · 09-11-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Her family owns a rehabilitation center

That my friends is Ironic.

Be her friend I guess. Don't get your hopes up about anything. She's a drug abuser, a different breed. It's hard to help someone when the only thing they want to help is their fix.
She needs an intervention. It's for her health. You'll lose more if she OD's or wrecks a car or gets thrown in jail

FallenAvatar · 09-11-2006, 12:48 PM

It is ironic somewhat but it's still understandable how such things are possible.

Oh I know she needs an intervention. Honestly I believe she may have gotten one today, due to a health problem. I'm not sure yet, as I haven't heard from her but I'm pretty sure it's going to change somethings in life. The problem is she's going to have to realize something with this problem. This one is a real fight, if she gives up on it she's dead. I'm not happy about it of course but in one aspect it might help her atleast somebit. Life is a bitch.

Kaliena · 09-11-2006, 04:18 PM

Question: Do you love her as she is now (even messed up) or do you love what she was (assuming she wasn't addicted at the point you two were together).

If you're willing to get over the idea that she may never be the same person she was before (and she won't, the addiction will be there forever, memories, body needs, whatever) then I would say try to maintain a friendship at least. Clearly you're aware about the issues that could come along with that and as long as you're smart about it, go for it.

As for a relationship; a possible future relationship will be shot if you try to have one now. It's hard to get past the memories, arguments, etc of the bad drug days.

I recommend friendship. Best wishes to you both..

FallenAvatar · 09-11-2006, 06:44 PM

I always said I'd be a friend; I won't take that back. When I met her she was clean but I knew she'd been into things before. I'm a firm believer in the fact that people can change and I don't regret anything in life. People make mistakes, that's part of being human. She got back into it. I love her now even with her problems, but I was much more into her when she didn't have them. I will keep the friendship and somewhere down the line if it's right I'll try again.

Lindy · 09-11-2006, 09:46 PM

I think you would get a lot of help from a support group called Alanon. It is a group of friends, spouses, children, siblings, etc of alcoholics. A lot of areas have similar groups that focus on druggies instead of drunks. Her family's rehab center could put you in touch with a group, if you can't find one yourself. I used to go when I was married to my drunk husband. It's also free.
Lindy

FallenAvatar · 09-12-2006, 02:26 PM

Maybe I could, but I'm still unsure about telling her family. That's the only way I could get in contact with their rehab center. It's not in my area. Questions.. questions questions.

09-10-2006, 10:27 PM	#1 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	When is too much too much I've brought it up before that I was in a relationship with someone I adore, the only problem is she has substance problems and doesn't know how to get away from them. She moved away weeks ago. We haven't been dating for over 2 months and I know that she picked up a relationship before she moved, the relationship was based on that addiction. She is coming back soon and wanted to come back for the relationship I just spoke of. I'm sure that it will be turned down because I know the individual. I understand that things for me will never work as long as her problems follow her. I said I adore her and that is an understatement. I love her dearly but can't watch her throw her life away, but at the same time I can't fix things. I don't even know if she loves me anymore but I keep holding on hoping it will fix itself someday. I will keep this woman in my life no matter the cost, my only problem is I don't know if I should try and persue her like I wish to, if I can get herself to clean up. I understand that I can't make her clean up and that's her own choice but I'm so lost in this entire situation. She's too important to me to walk away from but I'm getting close to cutting my loses and thinking that someday years down the line that her and I could work. I know that it is possible, I've seen it in her eyes, we could have been everything together. I'm kind of ranting here but I'm wondering what people think is the best option. Try and approach as a friend (which I am now) and get back with her if she can fix herself. Try and get back with her and fix things. Or totally walk away. __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

09-10-2006, 11:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	Totally walk away for a few weeks/months and then come back and be a friend. If you can't help her fix things for the moment, then all you're gonna do is get frustrated/irritated and it'll rub off on her. So give her space, give her time, come back later, and then see if it's coming together a bit. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.

09-11-2006, 12:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	I understand what you mean, I just can't discribe how hard this is. The sad part is that I'm pretty sure she doesn't love me like she could have or like she did. The problem is I think of her constantly and think of our times together. I love her deep inside and I know it. I just wish there was some easy way to get rid of the pain, I want to stay her friend but I want to be with her more, and I'm not sure I'll get that option, and I don't want to press the subject but it's what I want. I know the potential is there but unfortunatly I don't know how to harness the power. __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

09-11-2006, 03:00 AM	#4 (permalink)
jth Insane Location: HRM	I think you need to explain to her exactly how you feel and then let her know that if she wants to have any sort relationship with you in the future that she needs to get her sh!t together. You need to let her figure herself out I think, it works with any sort of substance abuse relationship... the abuser is generally extraordinarily selfish and will let it destroy whatever relationship they have until they realize that they have nothing left and then start making the changes to try and get some of it back after they decide they wish to clean up. Or they let the drug control every aspect of their life until they die or end up locked up. Right now said person has no reason to stop abusing. Why would she, you seem obviously very attached to her, so she gets attention from you when she wants it, even if she doesn't want it and still gets to fix when she wants to. Heck, you're still holding onto a relationship after she's moved on 2 months prior. To help her there are addiction centers all over the place, you can visit one and get a meeting with someone and as a professional for information on how to do an intervention with her, get her information about substance abuse with her drug of choice. __________________ "A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

09-11-2006, 06:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Wake up, and don't be a sad sack. Sure you love her for whatever reason, shes treated you like crap, left you, was doing some other guy, and still you are there like a puppy dog. Forget her addiction, she is treating you like a piece of crap, and don't let the addiction be an excuse for it. Why drag your life into the same gutter shes intent on dragging hers into? You deserve better. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

09-11-2006, 06:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jinn Lover - Protector - Teacher Location: Seattle, WA	She's not the only one with an addiction. I'd personally advise some professional counseling - this is a tough issue that none of us will be able to really help you with. My pesonal opinion is that you need to walk, not run, away and find someone worth your time. You're giving far more than you're recieving, and that's never healthy. Take a long break from her - go out and meet new people, develop new activites and find other things to entertain you. She's not healthy right now, and you fawning over her is not healthy for you. Most importantly, though.. schedule one meeting with a professional - therapist or relationship counselor.. __________________ "I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

09-11-2006, 07:06 AM	#8 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	Ustwo, I think JinnKai was suggesting the OP find someone to talk to about the situation. A relationship counselor could help the OP (sans his lady) because they'd have more expierence with problems encountered in a relationship. I think the OP knows that he's on his own here. Yes, go talk to someone. Distance yourself from this woman. Do it because you love her. If she ever loved you, she'll come back to that love and it will buoy her up in desperate times, but unfortunately that's something that SHE will have to realize. There's nothing you can do for her right now- this is the life she's chosen and the ball is in her court now. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

09-11-2006, 08:45 AM	#10 (permalink)
hambone Zeroed In Location: CA	You love this girl, right? And that is not contingent on the reciprocation of that love back to you? Then my personal advice is to follow your heart. If you love this girl as you say and genuinely wish the best for her, do all in your power to help her. I do agree with all that say a relationship with her in the sense of you two being a couple does not have the odds in your favor, BUT I strongly disagree with the side that tells you to just write her off because she is not good for you. You can still be there for someone and not be 'used'. You can give of yourself and not be a considered her puppy dog. You can extend every possible ounce of help and assistance to better this woman and not lose your own integrity or quality of life. I will never ever agree that someone is a lost cause. Never. Can you 'change' everyone? Nah. But you can do your absolute best to be a bright point in their otherwise dark life, whether they are able to recongnize it at the time or not. Not sure if this helps, but I wish you the best. __________________ "Like liquid white from fallen glass, Nothing to cry over" Last edited by hambone; 09-11-2006 at 09:36 AM.. Reason: i mispelled a word, changing the meaning!

09-11-2006, 09:31 AM	#11 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	I understand concerns of the population here and I thank you for the input. I realized I did get used and I was very careful after that point; that's not what draws me to her. There were many of times when I could tell things were there between us and where I could tell things could work out, but I don't think it was the right time in life. Regardless of the chances, I know a relationship may not be the best option and I know I may never get another chance, I still want to help her. My biggest problem with this situation is I don't need to "look" for someone that can help her. I know a possible source, my only problem is if I take this option I lose everything. Any relationship, any friendship, everything. Her family owns a rehabilitation center; you can't however rehabilitate someone who isn't willing, they just end up coming out worse then they did in the first place. I thank you on your concerns about a therapist, but I'm going to pass; I understand your goals and ideas for that suggestion but I haven't let it go that far. I'm not a wreck, I'm just a caring person. I hate watching people fall, especially ones that I really care for. My relationship wasn't always one-sided but I will tell you as her problem started so did the problems with us. I'm nice person and sometimes I get used, I understand that full well. I however get to points where there are certain people in my life that I care for enough to try and protect at any cost, it is a list of a very few people but they are important. Even with all the troubles we've gone through she's still a smart, loving, decent person. I care but I won't let it drag me down, but I will try to help. The one thing I know is this. If she comes back and wants to fix things I will be willing, if and only if she's clean; if she isn't then the situation will go no farther. So in essence she needs to take the first step, being that she's over 1,500 miles away. (I thank everyone for their help, please continue I'm interested in hearing more from each of you) __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

09-11-2006, 12:48 PM	#13 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	It is ironic somewhat but it's still understandable how such things are possible. Oh I know she needs an intervention. Honestly I believe she may have gotten one today, due to a health problem. I'm not sure yet, as I haven't heard from her but I'm pretty sure it's going to change somethings in life. The problem is she's going to have to realize something with this problem. This one is a real fight, if she gives up on it she's dead. I'm not happy about it of course but in one aspect it might help her atleast somebit. Life is a bitch. __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

09-11-2006, 04:18 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kaliena Crazy Location: Pennsylvania, USA	Question: Do you love her as she is now (even messed up) or do you love what she was (assuming she wasn't addicted at the point you two were together). If you're willing to get over the idea that she may never be the same person she was before (and she won't, the addiction will be there forever, memories, body needs, whatever) then I would say try to maintain a friendship at least. Clearly you're aware about the issues that could come along with that and as long as you're smart about it, go for it. As for a relationship; a possible future relationship will be shot if you try to have one now. It's hard to get past the memories, arguments, etc of the bad drug days. I recommend friendship. Best wishes to you both.. __________________ ~Beware the waffle~

09-11-2006, 06:44 PM	#15 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	I always said I'd be a friend; I won't take that back. When I met her she was clean but I knew she'd been into things before. I'm a firm believer in the fact that people can change and I don't regret anything in life. People make mistakes, that's part of being human. She got back into it. I love her now even with her problems, but I was much more into her when she didn't have them. I will keep the friendship and somewhere down the line if it's right I'll try again. __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.

09-11-2006, 09:46 PM	#16 (permalink)
Lindy Junkie	I think you would get a lot of help from a support group called Alanon. It is a group of friends, spouses, children, siblings, etc of alcoholics. A lot of areas have similar groups that focus on druggies instead of drunks. Her family's rehab center could put you in touch with a group, if you can't find one yourself. I used to go when I was married to my drunk husband. It's also free. Lindy

09-12-2006, 02:26 PM	#17 (permalink)
FallenAvatar Psycho	Maybe I could, but I'm still unsure about telling her family. That's the only way I could get in contact with their rehab center. It's not in my area. Questions.. questions questions. __________________ Fetch me the spirit, the son and the father, Tell them their pillar of faith has ascended.