jth

Hey all.

So this has got a bit of a long story so I'll hammer it out starts 3 yrs ago

I was a senior at my undergrad university and over the summer I was hired by the faculty to work RA and coach at a Jazz camp for highschool students or generally people between highschool and university (which was the demographic they were after). When I was teaching there I met a lot of young cats who were interested in music etc. One of them turned 18 during the camp and subsquently was enrolled in the fall semester at school. It appears that at this camp I made quite an impression or something and it quickly was brought to my attention in the fall that she liked me.

That all went down in a very highschool manner (she got her friends to talk to me "do ya like her do ya do ya" sort of deal) and I was uninterested for several reasons. A - being she had just turned 18, I was 23 and she was very much 18 in her attitude etc. B - I was a senior she was frosh and I was not sticking around and C - I didn't want to be involved with anyone. So quickly I managed to nip it in the bud and then next time one of her friends asked me what I thought about her and if I would date her I said no, I wouldn't reason A B and C.

A few years pass without seeing or hearing anything about her because there was no reason to know anything about her and I go to grad school in Texas (I'm from Novascotia, she's from here as well I think) and I get into this top school and work hard and get a scholarship for my hard work and come back home in the summertime to unwind, practice, perform etc. When I get back I hook up with my old teacher for a few beers and he tells me she is going to this school as well as her now Ex Boyfriend. Right away I feel redflaged that if she remembers me this could be trouble, big trouble. Unfortunately for me I'm to much of a nice guy and I then get added to her myspace page and I email her saying if she needs any help getting set up that I would be happy to help. It's been 3 years maybe she just had some random girl crush on me for some reason. Anyway, I know how hard it was for me to go down there and I had family there. She has only an exBF.

So next thing she's got me on MSn and is confessing that she likes me and liked me since she met me etc. Which from my end is alright at least she got it out in the open. She said that she wanted to take me out when we got to Denton just for saying thanks for helping her get ready for the semester, helping her with how to pick classes and what professors to watch out for. She didn't put it in a date way, but in a 'thank you' way.

Next thing I know she's driven down to my town for a gig that doesn't exist (i'm suspect if it ever really did exist or if it was an excuse to get her down here to see me, but I give her the benifit of the doubt). So she says, lets go hang tonight. I agree since I have nothing else to do (which was probably a mistake) and we go out, have dinner with our mutual professor friend, go play pool and then she says she wants to go out to the beeach to which I am not very receptive to. But we go anyway and she tries to put a move on me or whatever and I think I made it clear I was uninterested.

Needless to say we went seperate ways but had a good conversation but I think I was miss understood. I said to her that I liked her, she was funny and kind and easy to talk to. But that relationships are not something I am wanting to be apart of right now as I'm focused on my graduate work. She was agreeing with everything I said saying "yeah I mean I just want to you know go slowly and have a friend when I get down there etc." which was fine with me. But I know now that's horseshit because she really wants another BF as she has stated online in a blog that she "wants another boyfriend and I hope it happens soon" sort of deal. Plus on MSN she says shit like "I was thinking about you." or "I miss you". I'm like, I don't know freaking out I guess because I do want her as a friend but she's really clingy right now and trying to latch onto something, I don't know what.

My experience with women is limited and generally pesamistic which is probably causing me to see things that aren't there? I don't want to alienate her or avoid her but something tells me that she is someone that I'm going to want to know when i get down there since I don't know of anyone else from our part of the Country at the school and sometimes it's nice to be able to talk to someone who speaks the same language... but it's so obvious that she wants to be with me in a way I don't want anything to do with right now.

Sorry for the rant

Advice? Am I being selfish?

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"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

Seaver

Um... how about just dont overthink things?

My grandpa gave me really really good advice shortly before he died. He said, "To lead a happy life, dont question a good thing."

I know you dont want anything serious, you can still have fun for the summer. I honestly believe you might have low self-esteem and don't quite understand that this woman could be in her right mind and still like you.

Dont over-think it. This woman likes you. Whether you like her is the only part you should be thinking about.

match000

So what's the big deal... you don't find her unpleasant to look at, which you stated by "I like her too", plus "she's easy to talk to", so she makes a good friend.

And you made it clear to her you just want a friend, which in my experience girls have no shortage of needing (hehe, I'm the guy who lands in friend zone more often than I like).

I guess it can get quite annoying if she keeps trying to hook you in romantically, but I think sooner or later she will get the message if you stand your ground, and having more girl-friends around can only be good. Besides, you should be flattered somewhat, right?

Lasereth

Wait...you have a girl that seems like she's borderline obsessed about you, nice, funny, good looking, thoughtful, and you're asking for advice on how to make her go away? I have none. Most guys would die to have a girl obsessed about them.

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"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Redlemon

So, that's the key. You don't want to sacrifice your future for a bit of pleasure right now. Studying is topmost on your priority list. No problem with that. Make it clear, hold the line, and see her as a friend.

(I told a girl the same thing my Freshman year of college. Two weeks later we were dating. She's my wife now. YMMV.)

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I can't read your signature. Sorry.

Jinn

You know, I've never heard someone say that they "didn't want to be in a relationship" and actually stick to it. When I hear girls say it, it's to avoid hurting the feelings of a boy who is enamored with her. Usually, they're with another guy in a week or two. Such a sudden change of heart? I rarely hear guys say it, but usually it's even less of a conviction than when the girl says it. Maybe I just know too many people with weak convictions, but it seems to be almost universally applicable.

If you like her enough, your "future" will suddenly encorporate her into it.

When my met my girlfriend, she didn't want a relationship as she'd just gotten out of a bad one. She just wanted to "be single." We were dating less than a week later.

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

jth

I guess when I said I liked her I should have said it Platonically (sp). While no, I don't find her unattractive (great smile and eyes) It isn't for me I guess.

I do have when it comes to the opposite sex low self esteme because it's something I have gone without in lue of things I think are more important. of course, who knows what the future holds in that case. I suppose that I have been so focused on trying to make a career happen in such a way that when something unforseen comes into the mix I'm not sure how to handle the unexpected and this was unexpected. "Women aren't interested in me like me" is something I convinced myself of and still pretty much believe it. Obviously I was wrong.

The thing that really sticks out to me is that her Ex is coming as well. Apparently they broke up when he cheated on her and I certainly feel a tension in her voice when she mentions him. He as well as I am guitarists in the same program and degree so I have a feeling we will have to interact with each other and something tells me that I might be 'used' to get back at him or something to that effect. I don't know him, never met him yet she seems to be trying to already paint a picture of him that i will naturally dislike him because she probably either wants me to hate him and like her or just wants him to feel bad or something... i don'/t know

Anyway, I'm not trying to overthink it at least. I know what I want for myself and when i close my eyes I don't see her as that part of the situation. But I'm probably being to cut and dry about the whole thing and not leaving room for shifting. But that's gotten me this far and I'm generally a pretty happy person.

__________________
"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

Seaver

Dude, she liked you LONG before she knew him. She's not using you, she wants you.

fightnight

Took the words right out of my mouth.... I don't understand the back and forth here of whether you like her in one way or the other. Sounds like you need to commit to one side or the other. If she's not going to let the relationship thing go (and given that she's held onto it for 3 years, i'd say it's there to stay), then being friends will never work IMO, because you are clearly going to let that fact constantly bother you. I'd say either decide she's cool and you want to give the relationship a chance, or sever it all together, because in your experience with the girl so far, a middle ground doesn't seem reachable. I could be wrong here, but that's what i read into the whole thing.

Buk

Is she ugly or something?

monkeysugar

Just go with the flow. Don't actively try to make things happen or prevent them from happening. Things will work out, one way or another.

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I've got the love of my life and a job that I enjoy most of the time. Life is good.

Elphaba

An ex-boyfriend in your classes says it all to me. Even if you were interested in dating someone, you don't need the potentional problems that could come with this gal. I don't get the sense that she has matured much either. Be a friend and help her get adjusted to the new setting. She will find a boyfriend soon enough, I suspect.

Aside: Denton! I got my masters at UNT. Coming from Novascotia you must be experiencing a major climate and cultural shock. I did, coming from the PNW. Wishing you a successful graduate experience!

jth

Unlike most people Looks aren't a big factor for myself otherwise I would be a huge hipocrit. While I might be attracted to her personality I'm not interested in her the same way she is in me.

I think it's much clearer to me now that it's just not something that is possible. And unfortunately now I feel like I maybe leading her on which is something I really don't like because I know how I dispise being fooled around with in that way. I spoke to her again this morning on MSN and it's just really uncomfortable, and in my mind inapropreate (sp) for her to be 'hitting on me' after I told her that I was not interested in a relationship. Yet I want to try and spare her feelings and do want her to be a friend. Just complex I suppose.

Elphaba

Yes it was quite a change from the norm. I've lived all over Canada from the north (yes the great white north with no trees and polar bears in my yard, litterally). I went to Denton the November prior to audition and visit with my brother who was studying there. November it was in the hig 70's and it was in the low 30's back home. It was a huge change. Nothing prepared me for my move in August... and now I am returning in 20 days. At least now I know what to expect. What did you study at UNT? (random subject change)

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"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

yosho

hahaha damn she must be ugly or something...

very rare for a guy to turn down a girl who's into him.

So what's wrong with her? give us the dirt?

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mm...sex is fun

Deltona Couple

WOW, I was reading this and I know it's not on the subject, but just hearing the mention of the city of Denton brings back TONS of fun college memories( or should I say mamaries? lol) Some of my best times were spent cruisin University Blvd, and hangin out at the Sonic. I wonder if the same guy still owns it? I forgot his name after all these years, but he was a great guy!
I tell ya, you GOTTA love a city with not only a big University like UNT ( it was still North Texas State when I first started going there) But to also have Texas Women's University?.... NEVER a shortage of beautiful women!
AHHHH the memories!!!.................

jth

Not much has really changed here. She periodically sees me online if I am logged into MSN and continues with what she's been doing. I feel pretty uncomfortable about the entire situation, and I'm not about to tell her to back off over the internet, it seems awful impersonal to do so.

In clarification, I am not interested in her physically, but I think she's cool to hang with. I spoke to some mutal friends we have and it seems like she likes to bring me up in conversations which really sort of freaks me out a little bit. I told her not to think that I'm going to be around all the time for her to have someone to be with. I will be her friend but we're going to be busy (she doesn't have a clue what she's getting into with this school) and I just flat out am not interested in a relationship with anyone... sort of strange yes but that's just the place I am at.

Lots of UNTers here, which is kind of cool. And yes, I agree Denton has no shortage of beautiful women. That Sonic is where my brother and his wife first started to date... maybe it's a special place. I just like the tater tots

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"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

jth

random update just cuz i'm bored

I appear to be correct in my views that she was just seeking companionship. Our respectively busy schedules despite having 2 classes together and her desire to date people and my desire to not date people means I believe she gave up and now is head over heels for another dude at school. I figured something like this was going to happen when she would find someone else to deflect her attention to. She still is very young for her age, it's almost like she still has that 'high school or freshman' attitude... it's quite unappealing

Which makes it easier for everyone involved now because now there is no pressure on me, we can just have a good friendship thing and I'm down with that.

__________________
"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

Jimellow

This is an absolutely fantastic quote!

Regarding your situation.. I wouldn't lead her on, even if you aren't trying to and she isn't getting the message. I agree telling her online is shallow and inappropriate, and if you set up a meeting she will likely think it's a date, instead of a breaking off point. You could write her a letter, but that is distanced also, and likely not an ideal route.

I gather she enjoys being with you, and as long as she isn't trying to get into your pants, perhaps you could pursue friendship with her. Even if she is intent on getting into your pants, perhaps you could pursue friendship with her?

I think you ultimately have to take some action either way. Otherwise, this will likely linger and follow you around for awhile. I tend to overthink a lot, and given your lengthy post and thought process, it seems you are an overthinker also. This is good, but also can be bad if you let it linger too long.

You could talk with her and work towards a resolve. Or you could break off communication entirely, and just "disappear" to her. I would not recommend that latter, as I think resolving would ultimately be more comfortable for both of you.

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Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

SugahBritches

I've read this whole thread and the comments. It seems like you made the right decision, if it was indeed the right decision, for I'm not sure. I mean, it really didn't go anywhere. I mean, you made no move and therefore she moved on. Seems pretty simple to me.

I also agree that your education is very important. And I am also over 20 yrs older than you and hindsight is always better than foresight.

Good luck. Glad it all worked out for the best. Also, once the degree is out of the way and your career is on the move, don't be too busy to read the signs!!! ;-)

Mrs Master

Jth, I just wanted to let you know that I fully understand your lack of desire to jump into bed or a relationship with a girl just because she wants it. I say this because my partner is very similar to you in his views and I know it from historical witnessed facts guys so dont think that he's put one over me. I just heard all of the other blokes 'man talk' about the 'good thing' your'e onto. Believe it or not you men are not all like that, some guys have to have more than an alright face and a spot to put the rod. Some guys have other priorities over a quick root, and if they were looking would prefer the whole package (brains, maturity, looks etc) for a more worth while experience. Yes I know this sounds farcical, especially from a woman (my man shocked me believe it). Please correct me if Im only making assumptions here Jth because I know this type of male species isn't entirely common.

In case anything should start up again in the future and your'e still not interested(OMG whats she telling him!) I can smell the testosterone from here , try the boundry approach. Let her know she's overstepping a boundary you put in place out of respect for her and yourself and she's stomping on it. Tell the truth, you are not attracted to her anymore than you are George Bush (or whoever you think appropriate at the time) and would appreciate it, if she enjoys your company for what it is, and to get past the intimate issue. Make it clear if she can not respect your boundary its, farewell until she can. Then stick to that rule without guilt. You do that and she might learn something about respect for others. Im not saying she's a bad person either probably just can't understand why your not like so many other guys.

jth

Thank you Masters. I think I no doubt have issues to work out for my own self image and all that shit but in the end, the idea of just jumping into bed with someone makes little sense to me. For me, I need to be completely comfortable to be in that sort of relationship with someone, I haven't felt that way about anyone in a good many years. This was very much unexpected for me to have someone actually come forth about how they felt about this, it was a first for me, I contemplated it and I decided against it... selfish maybe to not even want to give it a try.

rant time


That being said, my goals in life demand a lot of personal sacrifice and I have been presuing my dreams for 8 years now with vigor and making a lot of sacrifices along the way and probably, I would say oversacrificing (is that a word?) in many cases. Certainly in the area of relationships since I have basically been in social environments that almost totaly consisted of men, and or any of the women that were in these social groups were shallow, self indulgent and highly competed for as if it was some sort of twisted game. Although I have learned I am not completely undesireable by some one out there... the timing is not right in every way.

I've never chased women, I don't have much of a desire to go and do it still. Maybe when I was in highschool I did, but highschool was 10 years ago for me. My interests and passion to create music over rides just about eveything that occupies my activities in one way or the other... I almost only associate myself with musicians of a high caliber, my day revolves around stints of practice or being in class (music classes) etc. Perhaps, as I look at it right now it is 'too much' of that for me and maybe I do need to go out and experience other things that life has to offer. If someone told me that to my face I would agree. But I doubt I would do anything about it because when I get home my guitar would be sitting on it's standing asking me to work on Giant Steps in 7 (for jazz geeks).

However, you are right. Not all men are sex crazed animals looking for the next knotch in the belt. I was raised in a Catholic environment, sex was for Husband and Wife. Now, I don't believe that anymore. But I know my parents were virgins when they got married and my Brother's only lover is his wife and he also is an extraordinarily focused and gifted musician who gave up a lot in his life as well however now is catching up so to speak. I watch a lot of men pawn over women and obsess about it (namely a lot of friends of mine) and watch them hurt themselves in the process of all of it. Sure, no pain no gain, all those cliche's are no doubt accurate. I had a friend of mine try and spur me to 'get out there into the scene' one time, and I prompty told him I was uninterested to which his response was "are you gay or something?" which I thought about not replying to however I didn't exactly want to send a mixed message, I just stated that I had more important things to do then try and pick up drunk women at bars on the weekend.

I often thought that perhaps because Musicians often have strange personality quirks about them that if I explained it to someone they wouldn't understand. Thankfully, most of my closest friends are artists in some way or at least very passionate about what they do and so they do not question my lack of desire to go and find a Woman or just go out and get laid. However, it seems every time I make new friends wonder why I don't want to go out to bars and try and "score chicks" with them. Because it is completely unappealing to me to do so, and therefore would be %100 unsuccessful every time. It's not me, never will be.

However, for those out there who are into that sort of thing, I say go for it and have fun doing it. I don't condemn anyone for whatever sexual adventures they have.

__________________
"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

surferlove007

If a girl is bothering you, just be straight up, don't put her on a leash with mixed signals which is what it sounds like you're doing by keeping the "friend" window. We're complicated, when a guy says he wants to be friends, girls usually think it means eventually he wants to be more than that. So either stop talking to her completely or just give it a shot and date the poor girl. She said she's liked you for three years, thats pretty committed. If nothing is gained than a bad date, so what, least you tried. Give her credit for being honest, you on the other hand need to figure out what you want because it seems like you're stringing her along which is not cool.
If you're really serious about not liking her or wanting her then completely sever the connection strings. Easy as pie, if you find it hard to do that maybe you're missing your own feelings on something deeper.
Don't think it through so much, thats what girls are suppose to do, I would know. Take things for face-value, and figure out what you really want.

SugahBritches

You know Jth, some folks just don't have the desire to want a relationship. Relationships take alot of energy. I don't think it's wrong. Even though I have been married forever, it doesn't mean I don't understand it.

But, there will ALWAYS be folks asking you why you don't have a relationship and wondering what is wrong with you. They do this because their make-up/view is different than yours and therefore, doesn't understand it.

It also takes alot of energy to explain something to someone that doesn't understand(I'm sure sometimes it doesn't seem worth the effort----yet you try). You only know you feel content with being alone. There is nothing wrong with you, it's just the majority that doesn't understand.

jth

well I feel good that someone understands that Britches.

Also, there is no tension between me and this Girl. We are friends, there's no issue there. She picked up on it I think pretty quickly. Unless she is completely just hiding it from me, and I do not believe that is the case. We did go on one 'date' a while ago (when this thread started) and I felt that it was clear that nothing as going to come of it. I think it took her little while and realized that "hey, this guy's not interested that way" so be it. She is as I mentioned seeing someone else now. I talk to her a fair bit, I see her all the time since we are taking two classes together. I don't feel uncomfortable about it, she seems content to tell me all about her new found Male companion, only because he and I are 'buddies' (we took some classes, recorded some music together).

I do overthink things. I suppose, as I approach 30 (2 years left of being able to be trusted) I start to wonder time to time if this 'contentment with being by myself' is something that I am forcing upon myself (convincing myself that it's what I want) or if it really truly is what I want. I feel as of late it is the truth that I enjoy my own company or perhaps, that I don't want to feel obligated to anyone except on my own terms, aka my concern with me being selfish.

If I was to make a list of 5 things in life I know that I want, a family or partnership with someone would not be on that list (no doubt much to the dismay of my parents). But things change, attitudes change, lifestyles change and all that good stuff.

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"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

Mrs Master

What the..?

IMO if she wasn't able to be just friends its shows what she believes is a priority to her, possessing someone. I dont think women are that complicated some just cant handle the rejection, nothing complicated about that. Most people ask others out expecting one of two answers yes or no, why does jth have to be the bad guy here just because he said no. Why cant someone accept something that simple?

Keep doing what your doing jth, obviously your passion for music takes care of any other excess energy you may have had if you weren't so focused on your talent. Its not uncommon to be completely fulfilled by doing what you love. I would love to hear some of your stuff one day. Though I'm not a big jazz fan

jth

is anyone?



There could be a link to my website somewhere in my tfp profile. There is music there.

Either way... i'm not a bad guy... i'm the guy that's to nice for his own good 1/2 the time

__________________
"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

Mrs Master

I'll check it out jth

Nice site jth, very professional. Your style of playing is very laid back, impressive, I could easily drink a cocktail to that

Good luck with your album.

goddess_otu

If this chick likes you as much as it sounds like, her mind may be tricking her into seeing something that isn't there. Sometimes highschool and college girls can be crazy bitches, lol. I think the best thing for you to do is to lay it out straight for her and let her know that you DO NOT like her. Otherwise you may be leading her on. It may not be pretty, and her feelings may get a little hurt, but it's probably for the best.