Sharon

My best friend is a guy I've known for a couple of years now, and have gotten closer to in the past few months after I broke up with my last boyfriend in Sept. We spend a fair bit of time together, going out to the movies, having dinner or being at each others' house, and we are in touch by phone or instant messenger pretty much every day. He made it clear from the start that he wouldn't be interested in being involved with me romantically, which I think has allowed our friendship to grow to where it is now.

He is the person I call when I don't know what to do, or have a personal crisis - and his response is constantly to encourage me to make decisions on my own and be independent. On several occasions, in my depression I hit the bars and pubs hard, and he took taken me home to safety, staying with me through my wailing and ranting, and resisting my drunken (and at the time, very much genuine) requests for him to take advantage of me - in other words being a true gentleman.

He has been a big part of my recent personal growth, and I honestly don't know what I'd have done without him.

Recently I have started dating again, and I really want him to meet and tell me what he thinks of my dates. His opinion means a great deal to me. He has resisted so far, saying the decision should be mine and he doesn't want to feel like he is partly responsible for who I go out with. He has also reiterated that I need to learn to cope on my own, and spend less time relying on him.

As friends, I want to be able to tell him the things that I am happy about as well as upset about, but he doesn't seem to particularly want to hear about my dating life. When I want to share how I feel about being stood up by someone, or one of my dates kissing me, he goes all quiet. He doesn't exactly say "I don't want to know about it", but his body language doesn't suggest he is keen to listen.

I feel like he is distancing himself from me, and it scares me... I called him earlier today, and part of conversation was discussing the view that close platonic friendships with members of the opposite sex only seem to work when both friends are single... that in his experience, every time his female friends found a boyfriend, they pretty much disappeared with the friendship, and we should both be prepared for that as I was starting to see other people.

I don't yet feel ready to have a boyfriend or a relationship, and have stresssed this repeatedly, but once again he says he has heard it all before, only for his friend to fall hopelessly in love and forget about him.

I would dearly love for us both to continue to double-date when we find partners... he dates regularly but has not managed to find someone he would like to see more seriously.

I am a bit confused - is he readying me or readying himself? I am guessing in his view, as soon as I find a man, I won't have time to think about him any more, so it seems like it is more for his benefit that mine... I sense that he may already be pre-emptively mourning the loss of our companionship. So far in our friendship, I have not been able to detect a shred of selfishness in his motives, but I guess it is only understandable that he should want to protect himself.

What do you think is going on here? Can a platonic friendship survive a new relationship with someone else?

And what should / can I do? Please help...

guthmund

Well, I'm of two minds on this...

The first is that he's lying. He is interested in you...just keeping it to himself. Lord knows I've played it this way more than few times. You hang out, you offer a bit of yourself and let her confide in you hoping that eventually, she's going to see what's right in front of her and make a move. Play the good guy, all the books say, and eventually she'll come round. He's moving away because you haven't choose him and it hurts him to see (and hear) you fawn over other guys. Guys that in his mind should be him. It's hard to be that guy.

On the other hand, you say he's not interested... Maybe he's pushing you away because he's disappointed in you. I mean, maybe he has a pretty high opinion of you and it hurts him to think his friend, who he holds in such high regard, would date what he thinks are unacceptable men. I've been friends with a lot of women over the years (and still am I guess ) and sometimes it irritates me to no end that my friend---this smart, loving, caring, incredibly strong woman---would stoop so low to date such knuckle-draggers. Women who say they respect intelligence and think that wit and a sense of humor are sexy and then turn around and date the young, intellectually vacant guy with the six-pack and tight ass. Again...hard to be that guy.

Just my nickel...

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Johnny Rotten

Sounds like he digs you but has intimacy problems. If I were in his shoes and had been doing the nice things he's doing, I would have made my move by now. Speaking as a guy, everything you say about him telegraphs affection. Maybe he's been burned in the past and can't quite get the wagon back on the trail yet. But he's had a helluva window of opportunity and hasn't done anything with it. I think he's holding himself up to a pretty high standard, so much so that I wonder if their isn't some relationship sin in his past that he's trying to absolve himself of.

Either way, his actions don't match his words. He's involved in your life pretty heavily, yet he insists you should make your own decisions. He insists he's not romantically interested, yet the feedback he gives you when you tell him about your dating life says the opposite to me. He sounds like a great guy who's killing himself a little bit each day because he doesn't have the courage to make the leap. And I'm willing to bet there's a little world-weary cynicism that has him convinced he'll be rejected.

But I ain't gonna offer you any advice, sister, and you've probably already come to similar conclusions anyway. If he doesn't go for it, he has no one to blame but himself. I can only have so much sympathy for a guy who's apparently intent on not helping himself out.

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Mojo_PeiPei

Yeah I'd say he digs you, I've been that guy before, his actions sound par for the course.

And on the chance that he isn't in to you, his lines about the where the road you are going in your relationship with him and on in respect to others in your romantic life, aren't that off base. Either way sounds like he probably has some intimacy issues; I know I'd be a little sore if I felt I was losing a friend more and more day by day, and ultimately there wasn't much that could remedy the situation.

But yeah. Being a gambling man, I'd bet the farm he digs you, but he is that "nice guy".

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Sharon

Thanks for the comments guys (I gather all three of you are guys).

This is what has me so confused - reading back what I wrote, it would seem obvious to me too that he's interested. If I am perfectly honest with myself, I kind of wish he was, because I would LOVE to have a man like him, that kind of stability and genuine care for another's well being is hard to find and a girl could feel very safe in it.

I've dropped hints several times, to try and find out if he's really secretly into me... once when we were out having dinner, I grabbed his hand and said with a wink, "I bet everyone is thinking we make a handsome couple." He smiled and thought about it for a moment, and then said, "I'm sure we would, and you're certainly a wonderful girl, but I don't think we're compatible enough in our needs and preferences... we would have a great time at first, then after a while those differences would start to take a strain on our relationship and we'd break up in spectacular fashion. I don't want us to get hurt like that, but I think it's cool that we can hang out as friends."

Which on second thought makes it sound like he had at least given it some think-time, but as it happened, it was me that was forcing a smile and nodding, and cried that night when he'd gone home. I'm still not really sure if I'm the one hung up on him and not wanting to admit it to myself. Or maybe as you say he fancies me a little, but I don't quite meet his requirements.

doncalypso

Sharon, based on your two posts thus far on this thread it would seem to me that this male friend of yours is really a good guy. Not only does he sound like a "nice guy," but you portray him to be quite the gentleman too, so I definitely tip my hat off to the guy for that.
However, while I can understand your curiosity in finding out whether he's interested in you or not, you have not mentioned once whether you're attracted to him physically or romantically. You did mention that he has desirable qualities, and you implied that you know you're safe in his company, but the bottom line is that you don't sound like you're that interested in him.

If you are attracted to him and would desire a relationship, then don't date other guys and be less subtle about throwing him hints that you're interested. Have you considered the fact that maybe he hasn't made a move on you because he knows he'd get rejected or he knows that despite his having attributes you admire in a man that he's just not your type?
I am more inclined to believe that he definitely digs you but he's keeping his mouth shut and not making a move because he knows he'll crash and burn if he reveals his true feelings for you---I honestly don't blame him because I have had plenty of personal experience with rejection and I know how much it hurts.

Maybe it's best that he keeps his distance. He probably needs some time to work through his own feelings and get over you before he can start seeing you just as a friend. And maybe he's really hurting inside because he's realized that no matter how good a friend he is to you and how close he may appear to you that he doesn't stand a chance because as Mojo_PeiPei said, he's "that nice guy." I'm not surprised the least bit that he's backing away, and this may be his only defense from having his heart shot out to a million pieces.

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BigBen

edit:

My response was too sappy.

Tell this guy how you feel. Very straight forward. Very blunt. No word games, no safe exits. Expose yourself, be vulnerable, and hope for the best.

It sounds like you guys were meant for each other. Plain and simple. Tell him I told you that.

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guthmund

I'm sure there's a joke there about...sappy...Canadians...trees or maybe...flapjacks...somewhere...

After further review, it sounds like the guy might be damaged goods. You said he dates...how often and is it ever anything serious?



Tell this guy how you feel. Very straight forward. Very blunt. No word games, no safe exits. Expose yourself, be vulnerable, and hope for the best.

If you guys are as close as you think...this should be easy-peasy, right? Good advice from our sappy, Canuckistani....flapjack... crap. I got nothing.

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Jinn

Man I'm straight and I'd do this guy if he's as sweet as you portray.. what you need to do is

(1) Decide if you like him as more than a platonic friend
If (yes), goto 2. If (no), goto 8.
(2) Tell him how you feel, straight up (ala BigBen)
(3) Get married
(4) Have sex
(5) More sex
(6) Babies
(7) Goto 9
(8) Realize that you won't keep a platonic relationship with a guy so madly in love with you
(9) Live happily ever after

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Toaster126

I was worried about writing my post in such a way as to be the bad guy here, but everyone has done my work for me, so I'll post now.

Talk about the situation point blank, without any games or subtlety.

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Sharon

Once again, thanks for your responses - it's very insightful to get a view on this from a male perspective.

He is more than a good guy, he is one of the most amazing people I have ever met, a true one-in-a-million and I cannot believe my luck that the likes of him would even take two minutes to bear - even listen to - my yapping.

At the risk of sounding like a cop-out, I don't know if I am interested in him. I guess the obvious response to that is that, if you don't know, you're not interested, but it isn't as simple as that to me. When we first got to know each other, he was like any other friend really, and after I broke up with my ex, I was looking for some kind of rebound or something, and fortunately before I managed to do anything too rash or stupid, he stopped my clumsy advances and instead gave me a friendship which didn't demand anything in return. In the process, I guess he filled the real need I had for acceptance without seeking it through superficial or sexual means, which I guess is a good thing.

I have definitely entertained the idea of us as a couple and like the idea a lot, but because he had made it clear that he wasn't interested romantically, I tried to put it out of my mind (and quietly looked at other men as options instead, at the risk of sounding like some kind of raving horny woman - though I guess that's probably not far from the truth). Now, our relationship is just so... "comfortable" is the best word I can think of. I constantly find myself wishing my next relationship has what we have, where it doesn't matter what my hair's like, if I've put on a few pounds, if I accidentally lose control of my more embarrassing bodily functions, where it almost feels like I could do the stupidest thing ever, and fall big-time, and he would just wait patiently, hand outstretched to help me up.

Do I look at him now and want to rip his clothes off? Probably not, but I do wonder if that's because I've not allowed myself to go down that road. I get the feeling he'd probably be a fantastic, selfless lover, who leaves his partner giddy and unable to walk after sex.

Would it be too cheesy for me to suggest that our relationship is like that of a close brother and little sister? I thought of this today and it does kind of explain not wanting to know the details of my dating life. It's kind of too much information to a brother.

As is probably obvious from all this so far, I'm not the most secure of people... and although I have certainly come a long way in the past several months, I really don't feel I deserve a guy like him. I have painfully glaring flaws obvious to anyone who's known me for any period of time, and I see him with a really beautiful, intelligent, stable, super-caring, charismatic woman with inhuman integrity. Hence, I don't think we are meant for each other outside the realm of being friends.

(oh, and btw, that will be one hell of a lucky bitch)

I know I should talk to him, I know it is the only way to find out what is really going on, but I am terrified. I am terrified that it will change anything, and I will lose the best thing that has ever happened to me. It's a cliche that women use the excuse of not wanting to lose a friendship, but it is absolutely true and if he were to tell me tomorrow that he didn't want to hear from me again... I don't even want to think about thinking about it.

I'm really sorry about my incessant ramblings, I guess I have a lot going through my mind at the moment and it's really not all that organised up here.

p/s: what are intimacy issues?

doncalypso

I don't mean to sound like I'm laying down the heavy end of the hammer on you, but the vibe I get from your post is that you're not interested in him. It seems to me that part of you wants to rationalize a reason for liking him because he has so many qualities that would be admirable and desirable in a partner, but those qualities are not making your heart skip a beat when you think of him because you're not interested in him romantically to begin with.

My conclusion is that if you were madly attracted to him---both sexually and romantically---then all of the attributes you've described about him would've made you fall head-over-heels for him, and he'd be the perfect catch. Unfortunately, you don't seem to be digging him, so whether you find out that he has the hots for you or not is inconsequential because if the woman doesn't dig the guy to begin with nothing is ever gonna happen.

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cybersharp

haha that is great! I second that.

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0PtIcAl

Redjake

You need to tell the guy straight out if you are interested in him (more than a friend). He obviously likes you more than a friend but doesn't want to ruin your friendship if you were to reject him. On the male perspective, this is a disastrous situation. No wonder he doesn't want to hear about your dates. He likes you! He is being forced into the role of the "Intellectual Whore." You use him for comfort, intelligent converstations, advice, but he doesn't "get any" in the end.

Check this site out for the best explanation: http://www.intellectualwhores.com/masterladder.html

Intellectual Whore defined: "Basically this is just a guy who has a very high position on the friends ladder. So far up the friends ladder that he gets the dubious honor of getting to provide all the intimacy that a girl is missing when she's off fucking guys who basically don't care about her like outlaw bikers and band members. So he gets to be the proxy father/confessor/friend/teddy bear for her, depending on what she is missing at the time."

Just straight up tell him if you like him or not. Depending on the type of guy he is, he may either 1) never talk to you again, or 2) be at ease around you, knowing nothing will ever happen. (1 and 2 are providing that you DON'T want him more than a friend)

Sounds like if you were to like him, you guys would be good together. Sounds like a nice guy. Sounds like I used to be around girls. You just end up getting your heart broken.

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Rodney

Somehow, I think at the heart of your confusion, you want to ask your friend one question: "What's going on with you?" There's a lot he isn't telling you, like: what does he want in a relationship? Why is he your friend? And the big one: what's he getting out of your friendship? You're getting his comfort and support, and a gentle shove now and again to keep you making your own decisions. But what's he getting? Why's he there? These are things you need to know. When you do know, you may be less confused about how _you_ feel. You may wanting to date him unconsciously just to learn more about him.

He sounds like a great guy, but you've put him on a pedestal. And he's got flaws and issues, we all do. If you two are really close friends, you get to ask him these questions. If the answers don't enlighten you, well, then there's part of him he's either not willing to share or doesn't understand himself. At that point you would have to back off. But at least you gave it a big shot, which as I said, is perfectly acceptable, justifiable, and understandable.

SERPENT7

If you like him, make a move. But be prepared for him to reject the fact that you are violating social norms. (He sounds like a traditional role kinda guy.) Just swallow the (temporary) hurt and press on.
I personally think more girls should be the 'agressor'. Be a trend setter!

Also, the fact that he had such a well-reasoned arguement for why you shouldn't date tells me as well that he has 'given it some think-time' and has constructed a rationalization about why he shouldn't hit on you. He might be in like with you, but since our cultures gender paradigm does not encourage love in a non-sexual context, that is causing him some distress.
My thoughts all involve serious straight talk.
But like i said before, be prepared for him to reject your role-violating.
Good luck!

Jimellow

I think I would tend to agree with this.

I consider myself to be a guy similiar to your friend, in that I've formed a few very close bonds with females that I don't intend to date. When they are single, or recently out of a relationship, they understandably have more time and interest in spending time with me. If, and when, they find a boyfriend that they start dating seriously, they do tend to disappear, because they don't "need" my companionship at the current time in their lives. They have a boyfriend that they are devoting their time to.

I am fine with that, and to me, being there at the bad/down times is what friendship is truly about. Anyone can be there when life is good. That is the easy part.

The interesting thing about becoming close friends with the opposite sex is that you get to know them really well, and with that comes the surfacing of turnoffs that would otherwise go unnoticed until you had dated for awhile. In a way, I guess it's kind of like skipping dating and being married. You know each other almost completely, moreso than a dating relationship, because in my experience friends talk to me about issues they have with their partner, and thus things they would never tell their partner.

I am skeptical about close friendships turning into relationships and succeeding. If you already know the person completely, I think a serious relationship will become very boring, very quickly. Part of the excitment and enjoyment of dating is discovering your partners likes, dislikes, and their entire person through experiences, both good and bad. If you already acquired all this information while "close friends" I am not sure there is enough new material to experience to keep things interesting and fresh. I also think that people that are too compatible as friends turning things into a relationship will potentially be "too much good" and not enough negatives. Negative situations are a realistic part of relationships, but if you have been very close to someone for years and come to that person to talk about external negativity, I think the potential is there to be "too compatible" and thus not have negativity, but instead boredom.

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Sharon

Well, we finally talked.

I must firstly confess that that I didn't suddenly summon up the courage to ask him point-blank.

We were having lunch together this afternoon, and a former colleague of his happened to come into the restaurant and recognise him. She asked him if I was his girlfriend, and he replied that I was just a very good friend. She then teased him briefly before saying her goodbyes and returning to her table.

After she had left our table, he turned to me and quipped that she was a renowned gossip and before the day was out, his old office would know about his "new girlfriend". I punched him in the arm and said, "Wow, you make it sound like you'd be ashamed of being associated with me."

(it occurs to me now how sometimes we girls end up using subtle feminine manipulation almost without thinking)

He looked me in the eye and gave me that "wait a minute..." look, and I guess he must have thought I was a little hurt by that comment, because he took my hand and said, very slowly, "Sharon, I like you a lot, and I enjoy spending time with you, and although I see you as a friend, and a very good friend, I would never be ashamed of being associated or seen with you. It might even be good for my reputation. And I really don't care if there are rumours, because I really don't care what people think anyway."

I guess that clears that one up then!

He then asked me what was bothering me (and he can usually tell, if he's not distracted), which was my cue to spill out what had been worrying me, about the distance, and him going quiet on the dating chat, the one-sidedness of our relationship etc.

It turns out that the distance thing was just him not wanting to get in the way of any potential relationship I might want to get into, because apparently some guys don't deal well with a close male friend.

His reluctance to discuss my dating life is purely because it just reminds him of the lack of current success in his own dating life - my bad news just reminds him of his lack of good news, and my good news reminds him of his lack of good news.

His comment on the one-sidedness of our relationship was very interesting to me - he says it's not at all one-sided, he just simply enjoys my company, that's what he gets out of it and that's pretty much it. That intellectual whores website turned out to be a fascinating read, by the way... and I guess our friendship fulfils both our needs for companionship while we're both single. In a crude way, I suppose that would make us emotional-buddies (like fuck-buddies but substituting emotional for sexual intimacy).

What made me rather sad was not just that I now know for sure that he is unattainable for me, but also the calm matter-of-factness with which he had accepted that our intimate friendship could only last as long as my single status. I obviously hope he turns out to be wrong on that, but he has been right on pretty much everything else as long as I've known him, so I guess it's not looking good.

I also really feel for him on his not having found the right girl for him yet. His two main worries are that he may be setting his standards unrealistically high (in his words, ruling out practically the entire dating pool), and that although he knows he would be a good - I would say sensational - catch, he doesn't seem to inspire the heart-skipping, can't-stop-thinking-about-him kind of feelings in the kind of women he would be interested in settling down with (ruling out the remainder of the pool).

Having now heard his description of what he would like from a potential partner, I have to say it is far more than fair considering what he brings to the table (and rules me out in so many ways it's not even funny), and also that I can't think of a single one of my friends who would be good enough to set him up with. He really does deserve someone at LEAST as good as he desires.

Maybe I should start another thread asking how I can help him find a woman like that, or help him find a way to find one...

Oh, and I want to say how thankful I am to all of you for your input and support, it has really given me a new perspective on relationships and friendships as men see them. All in all I am quite glad all this happened, I have learnt so much.

Jinn

God I'm so confused.. where did he say he didn't want you? Did you leave it out or was it just the:

Cause that doesn't sound like a shut-down at all, but rather a "I'd love to be your boyfriend and I wouldn't care what people say."

I don't want to lead you down a path of futility, but... ? He doesn't like you? It sounds like you two need to get married now because you're so in love with each other..

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Jinn

Oh and this is like the sweetest thread I've ever read on TFP..

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Sharon

Ha, reading it now I see what you mean, but I think it was clear from the way he said it (the inflections are lost in the typed word). I know because I have said those words "I see you as a friend" to my fair share of guys myself. I always struggled to put it across without hurting the guy, but in this case I think he actually managed to make me feel better while making his point.

On both counts, I'm trying to work out if you're kidding or serious.

snowy

Tell your best friend this: Any guy worth dating YOU (Sharon) will be totally fine with a best male friend.

I have two of them, and my guy is just a-okay with them. In fact, he's quite good friends with them now as well. Any guy who would be uncomfortable with the prospect of their girl having a best guy friend is not a good guy to be dating in the first place--trust me, I discovered that lesson the hard way.

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Rodney

As a friend, it would be entirely appropriate for you to find a way to help him; he must have an issue of some sort, because a guy as good as you say he is should be able to find someone close enough to what he wants to at least date in an exploratory way. Maybe he has trouble with the whole dating thing; many do. Maybe he's so serious about each date that he never has fun.

What I might suggest is that you offer to be his reality check on the opposite sex. Maybe he needs to know more about women in social situations: what they like, what they don't like, why a woman he went out with might have reacted to him the way she did, how he can be himself. You can be his adviser and cheerleader, if he'll let you. If so, you'd be doing him a vast service.

No blind dates, though! :-)

Cynthetiq

Skogafoss and I were good friends before we started dating... it took someone else to point out that we should be dating because the qualities we were looking for were within each other even though we didn't look at each other in that manner.

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oberon

Emotional support buddies are great!

Sounds to me like the dude is not interested in you except as such. Considering how close you make your relationship sound, however, I'm a little surprised he isn't more straightforward. Whether or not you'll be able to retain the friendship as is depends on the nature of your future relationships. I think onesnowyowl outlined this quite well.

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Johnny Rotten

I'll bet he'd be climbing the walls if you disappeared for a week and kicking himself up and down the street if you came back with a boyfriend. That gentlemanly detachment would go flying out the window. Man, he needs a good kick in the keister. I just want to shake the guy and say, "What are you doing!?! Good god, man, listen to yourself!"

Okay, so this is what I'm thinking. I'm thinking he has some really low self esteem and wouldn't step into the ring with you unless you pretty much threw yourself on top of him. But what can you do? The guy has to chase. This is The Rule. You're not obligated to throw your proverbial doors wide open. In the end, if it doesn't work out, don't blame yourself. I hope he at least learns a lesson about the downside of being a knight in shining armor. I think you've done everything you can to give this guy a chance to make his move. I applaud your patience. But I don't applaud his ridiculous mincing.

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Sharon

I agree with you both, definitely in principle at least. I certainly want to retain his friendship and hope that I will be strong enough to insist that any future partner respects that.

Oberon - I hear what you are saying, and it is true that in our relationship I am the one who is usually more open to sharing my feelings with him than the other way around... I also tend to be the one seeking him out for company, to hang out etc. Perhaps it is because I am the less secure one, or perhaps it is his introverted nature which allows him to be just as comfortable on his own as with other people.

I would really love to be his adviser and cheerleader... but he already seems to understand women a hell of a lot better than I do. He can always figure out rapidly what is at the root of my behaviour, doesn't put up with emotional blackmail or guilt games (something I am used to, and used to be use more than I'd like to admit).

One of the things I enjoy about his company is that he teases me all the time with a half-smile on his face, particularly about whatever I'm worrying about at the time, which both puts my paranoia into perspective remarkably well and makes me feel silly and girly... and I have seen the effect this has with women we meet when we're out and about. He seems very much at ease among women.

I don't know why he can't seem to find the right kind of woman... maybe he is just dating the wrong women, perhaps the ones that catch his eye just aren't the ones he actually wants long term, so he isn't getting around to dating his true "type" or something.

Or maybe - and this just occurred to me - he's secretly gay or something! (though I don't think so)

I think the "patience" you describe is probably a combination of:

(a) me hoping that he would become attracted to me, because I know he'd be a great boyfriend, and
(b) assuming doncalypso is right, me hoping that I become attracted to him, because I know he'd be a great boyfriend.

We were at mine last night hanging out with my roommate (who has long threatened that if I didn't jump on him, she would), and she embarrassed me thoroughly by bringing up a wine-fuelled late-night conversation we had when we first moved in together (that would make it about six months ago), when I discussed him with her, amidst grins and giggles. He was definitely amused by the story, but his body language didn't give away any signs that he would have wanted to know about it or that the little crush would have been reciprocated.

I think I have done all but throw the proverbial doors wide open, but he's decided that our relationship will be an asexual one.


I love that story, it sounds like it would be the ideal ending to my soap opera drama... sadly, I think the truth is that although he has all the qualities I am looking for in a partner, I don't have the ones he is looking for.

genuinegirly

ok.... Sharon, your scenario is a little different from mine but... Johnny Rotten's response pushed me into saying something.

Turbotom was there for me when I was dumped. He calmed my nerves, he helped me see things right. He was my "One true thing."

Push - by Sarah McLachlan

Every time I look at you the world just melts away
All my troubles all my fears dissolve in your affections
You've seen me at my weakest but you take me as I am
And when I fall you offer me a softer place to land

[CHORUS:]
You stay the course you hold the line you keep it all together
You're the one true thing I know I can believe in
You're all the things that I desire, you save me, you complete me
You're the one true thing I know I can believe

I get mad so easy but you give me room to breathe
No matter what I say or do 'cause you're to good to fight about it
Even when I have to push just to see how far you'll go
You wont stoop down to battle but you never turn to go

[CHORUS]

Your love is just the antidote when nothing else will cure me
There are times I cant decide when I cant tell up from down
You make me feel less crazy when otherwise I'd drown
But you pick me up and brush me off and tell me I'm OK
Sometimes thats just what we need to get us through the day

[CHORUS]


We started spending time with one another after I was dumped by someone dear. I was completely confused, distraught... even though the reason for the breakup was justified and understandable (now, not then). So Turbotom was there for me in every way possible. A month after the breakup I did manage to convince him to have sex with me. Perhaps the difference there between you and I is that when I asked, I was sober and completely reasonable. He felt HORRIBLE afterward. But I was at a point in my life were I needed to not be afraid of sex, where I needed to know that it wasn't something scary, that it could be fun. So our relationship was different than yours. We didn't have sex often, nothing regular, but it was there.

He was at a place in his life where he didn't want any relationship. He had his applications in for graduate school, waiting for responses, and he didn't want to start something that would turn into a long-distance relationship. He told me to date other guys. He wouldn't give advice. He wouldn't meet them. I dated some, then found one guy that I was interested in seeing more regularly. But I couldn't with a clear concience. My heart was secretly set on Turbotom. I decided that I could start seeing this other guy if I knew without a shadow of a doubt that nothing would happen between Turbotom and I. So I asked him one evening. Turbotom told me that he wasn't interested in me that way. He told me flat-out that he didn't love me that way. That he doesn't want a relationship, and never would. It hurt a lot. I took it, said thank you, and went home and cried. I then dated this other guy for 3 months. Turbotom would mention that he missed spending time with me. So I made time for him and our mutual friends. But he always had something to do when this other guy was going to be there. I didn't think anything of it.

The decision came when I was going to move in with this other guy. I went to visit the other guy at his place in Sacramento, was there for one weekend. Things weren't going well with the other guy and I was second-guessing my decision to move.

That weekend Turbotom's life fell apart. He received a rejection letter from his first pick grad school. His computer crashed. He called me up completely distraught. "What do I need to do to convince you to come home?"

Needless to say, I was confused. He then offered to move out to Sacramento to be near me. He said he didn't care what he had to do, he just wanted to be around me. As the conversation progressed, he confessed his love, and proposed over the phone (the first of 3 proposals). The next day he purchased two plane tickets to Paris. We backpacked through Europe for a month, side by side.


The rest is history.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Sultana

Girly, that's an amazing story! It's sweet, but I want to kick Turbo for putting you through that. ;P

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.