Views of Christian Music - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

tspikes51 · 09-24-2004, 05:04 AM

Why do most non-Christian people, in general, look down on Christian music? It doesn't make sense to me. I have some friends who will listen to something, like it, and then find out it is "Christian" and hate it. It isn't any different from any other kind of music except for sometimes it has a different subject lyrically. Quite a few "Christian" groups write plenty of songs that have nothing to do with church, God, Jesus, or religion at all. I honestly don't understand. I could see maybe if it were a matter of music taste, but to dislike ALL Christian music because of the simple fact that it is Christian music is just wrong. I don't even consider it a separate genre, and I don't know why it is. I can see not liking country or rap, but Christian music just covers such a wide array of genres, I don't see how anyone can't like SOMETHING. There also seems to be an certain level of acceptance, but it is limited to Switchfoot and P.O.D., and that's soley because of marketing.

Gortexfogg · 09-24-2004, 05:25 AM

I don't know about other people, but for me I usually frown on Christian music because it can be plain silly. The lyrics and messages being sent out aren't interesting or worthwhile to listen to. Also, a lot of people don't liked to be preached to, which is something Christian music has a tendency to do. However, the little Christian music I do listen too (Dylan's stuff and Ceili Rain) has lyrics that are intriguing or ambiguous, make you think and aren't just ripped out of pslams or something.

vanblah · 09-24-2004, 05:34 AM

I don't dislike Christian music per se. What I don't like is the hypocrisy and santimony which seems to be rife in the Christian music scene. Other than that I have heard several Christian artists that were very talented and have even been in bands with people who "would prefer to perform Christian music."

I think the stigma associated with being a listener of Christian music is what causes your friends to claim that they hate it. This attitude usually goes away with age and/or wisdom. Unfortunately, the two aren't mutually inclusive. You don't have to be a Christian to like Christian music. I like early Metallica ... I'm not a metal-head.

trickyy · 09-24-2004, 07:20 AM

i don't gravitate toward it because it is too predictable. to me, if a groups falls under the wing of the christian media empire, the band will be limited in their ability to express themselves. they have to be acceptible for the shelves of a christian bookstore, so the content and tone of the music will be a certain way. not always, but usually.

a lot of the christian music i have heard just isn't that good. i'm not sure why. many acts are marketed as the "christian version of _____" (insert popular mainstream artist). so it's like a sub par version of already sub par music. since i don't really like the mainstream artists to being with, i do not really embrace the christian counterpart either.

one christian artist that i like is sufjan stevens. i don't think he is very associated with the whole christian media empire, which is a good thing in my opinion. yet he is doing his own thing, making interesting music. and he is has achieved appeal with many people (regardless of their beliefs), at least on the underground. another worthy group is the danielson famile, who have been recognized for their unique sound. in these cases, i think the quality and originality of the craft supersedes the label of "christian music."

Stompy · 09-24-2004, 07:40 AM

(the following is my opinion, no offense meant to anyone)

I listen to it if I want a good laugh, kinda like how I'll bust out with a Milli Vanilli/Vanilla Ice/MC Hammer mp3 every now and then. DC Talk is hilarious, but the thing that REALLY makes it funny is that they are SERIOUS.

Hearing songs about "being saved" or "praising the lord" doesn't really hold any interest to me at all, and I can see why most others don't like it either. The songs just aren't very interesting and the lyrics are often sappy/lame. Creed and Evanescence are two very popular Christian bands... and there isn't a single song that isn't cheesy.

I wanna hear songs about important real life issues that affect EVERYONE, like drug use, hypocrisy in society, oppression, etc, not things like, "I used to be bad, but then I found Jesus and I'm happy. You should find him too or you'll be miserable."

Pretty much the same reason I don't listen to gospel, jewish, buddhist, islamic music.

ShaniFaye · 09-24-2004, 07:42 AM

I was not aware that Evanescence was considered a christian band? Where does that info come from?

Stompy · 09-24-2004, 07:50 AM

What do you mean "where does that info come from"? The band? The lyrics?

I thought everyone knew. Their songs scream christianity.

http://www.cmcentral.com/news/1271.html
http://www.christianitytoday.com/mus...03/fallen.html

vanblah · 09-24-2004, 07:54 AM

Both Creed and Evanescence started as Christian bands but "fell from grace" shortly after making it big. How convenient.

ShaniFaye · 09-24-2004, 07:58 AM

um ok...well lookin at your link from christianity today it says this

Quote:

Then after two months, the bombshell hit. In an April 15, 2003 interview with Entertainment Weekly, Evanescence emphatically declared they aren't a Christian band. According to Amy Lee, "There are people hell-bent on the idea that we're a Christian band in disguise, and that we have some secret message … We have no spiritual affiliation with this music. It's simply about life experience." Unfortunately, Ben and Amy used profanity to communicate their request to be removed from Christian bookstores and radio stations. The industry quickly complied.

and your other link says this

Quote:

"We're actually high on the Christian charts," says Ben Moody in the EW article, "and I'm like, 'What the f--- are we even doing there?'" Vocalist Amy Lee adds, "I guarantee that if the Christian bookstore owners listened to some of those songs, they wouldn't sell the CD."

Stompy · 09-24-2004, 08:03 AM

They are a christian band, trust me.

Just listen to the songs.

[edit]
I didn't even read the links. Just search on google, should be self explanitory. The band has actually said they were christian before (the singer), so that's pretty funny that it has her quoted as saying that

That'd be like a band actually praising satan and then being surprised when people label them as devil worshippers or a "satanic band".

ShaniFaye · 09-24-2004, 08:07 AM

oh I have...I listen to them everyday, Fallen stays in my cd player in my office and when I get tired of talk radio it gets switched to that, (sorry guys I love her voice) and have for quite awhile...their lyrics never once impressed me as "christian music", which about 5 years ago was music I listened to all the time.

I listen to several bands that could have songs that I would consider on the "spiritual" side...but that doesnt mean I consider them a christian genre

*edit....I never really read up on them...the only bands I every "read" on are Ratt and Enuff Z'nuff...anybody else I just "enjoy" the music....I dont hunt out stuff to read on them...I guess I get a different meaning out of Amy's lyrics cause I def wouldnt call some of them christian

Its interesting to know that some people think of them that way....hmm Creed..they sing that song My Sacrifice right? I dont know much about them or know many of their songs

Rdr4evr · 09-24-2004, 08:13 AM

I agree with Stompy on this. I find the music more humorous than anything. I personally never understood Christianity as it oozes with hypocrisy, and the music is just more of the same drivel in my opinion.

Stompy · 09-24-2004, 08:14 AM

Haha, well, *I* don't classify the music.

They are known as a christian band though. Take it up w/ the fans I guess

There's a reason why they (and Creed) make it big on those lists, and it's not because a christian fella randomly decided to pick "pop band X".

roachboy · 09-24-2004, 09:11 AM

if by christian music you mean palestrina, for example, it is quite lovely...a whole range of it, through messaien. i even like some arvo part.
all of this is music that reaches for something that it can not quite grasp--yes.

if you mean music on the order of creed: it is a joke, musically and conceptually.
i would rather listen to black metal. or psychic tv. neither of which i go particularly out of my way to hear. but at least there is something going on through the music, a kind of blast from somewhere else.

Redjake · 09-24-2004, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanblah

Both Creed and Evanescence started as Christian bands but "fell from grace" shortly after making it big. How convenient.

Creed said GD in one of their songs didn't they? Boy now they went out of the genre with a bang

tspikes51 · 09-24-2004, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trickyy

i don't gravitate toward it because it is too predictable. to me, if a groups falls under the wing of the christian media empire, the band will be limited in their ability to express themselves. they have to be acceptible for the shelves of a christian bookstore, so the content and tone of the music will be a certain way. not always, but usually.

This is the same with almost every other genre of music. Usually, but not always, punk bands' lyrics for a good chunk of their music should be anti-governmental and bashing of mainstream society. Country should be about getting drunk, losing a girl/guy, or being a cowboy. The stigma that comes with limiting yourself to listening to one type of music nearly exclusively just doesn't sit well with me (to make me credible: here are some exerpts from my "Most Played" playlist on Winamp: first is Shinedown-.45 with 41 plays, tied for 2nd is Story of the Year-In The Shadows w/28, tied for 3rdth is Lil' Flip-Game Over w/ 27 plays; tied for fifth is OAR-That Was A Crazy Game Of Poker w/ 23; t for 6th is Whitesnake-Here I Go Again; t for 7th is POD-Revolution; t for 8th is Blindside-Sleepwalking. Browsing down just a bit I see names like Project 86, Jay-Z, Garth Brooks, J.S. Bach, Metallica, and Marvin Gaye). I so often see stereotypes associated with people that listen to a certain type of music, including Christian music. I listen to Christian music, and am a Christian. Does that mean that I won't listen to music that has lyrics that I don't agree with? Absolutely not (I listen to Tool and Marylin Manson frequently). It sickens me that music is being separated into genres not only by their sound, but by their lyrics, and it especially makes me ill to see that music is now almost synonymous with poetry and language to the point that people think "instrumental" music sucks.

maximusveritas · 09-24-2004, 09:41 PM

Well, if you heard a song whose lyrics were comprised of racist hate speech, would you still like it as long as it had a good beat? I'm not comparing Christian music to hate speech, I'm just saying that it is impossible, for me at least, to completely seperate the lyrics from the music.
In fact, the lyrics are the most important part of the song for me. I can still appreciate an instrumental song or even a song with unintelligible lyrics, but I think songs that use their lyrics to convey a deeper meaning are more valuable. You may disagree, but I hope you now understand where people like me are coming from.

K-Wise · 09-25-2004, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

I agree with Stompy on this. I find the music more humorous than anything. I personally never understood Christianity as it oozes with hypocrisy, and the music is just more of the same drivel in my opinion.

How so does Christianity ooze with hypocrisy? I bet all you can list is a bunch of stupid generalizations and stereotypes when I ask that right? The only thing that oozes with hypocrisy is mankind itself. When we all grow up and have kids we'll teach em it's not right to steal, or lie, curse, or do drugs, or objectify women and disrespect them when we've all done it ourselves and will do most still even when we have them. Teachings which are synonomous with the Christian way of life. I'm not talking about Priests who do sermons and then molest the alter boys or preachers who take money out of the collection plate to buy their wife a new dress to wear on Sundays. Again that would be making a generalization...just because one priest or preacher or even a hundred do it doesn't mean the entire Church is a bunch of hypocrits. Lots of black and brown people rob convenience stores but you wouldn't dare say that all black and brown people are criminals would you? Hypocrite. If it's the Church it's just fine though. These are the same type of people who wanna beat you up if you try to label them. Christian people have a belief(s) and most of them follow it(them). The ones that you think are hypocrites probably are because they just say they go to church and believe in God but don't really try to follow in his footsteps at all. Judge Christianity by Christ alone...nothing more we're human we are not perfect. On to the topic at hand I like a lot of christian artists like Jennify Knapp, Third Day, 4 Him, Mars Ill, etc. They make great songs and sing with feeling so of course I like them most I do not like though for the obvious reasons listed above. I gotta admit though I do not listen to music that mocks the Christian faith or has anything bad to say about it in general. Why I don't listen to a lot of great bands like A Perfect Circle or Nine Inch Nails. I'm not saying I'm the best Christian either. I try but I still do many things that aren't right with Christian way of life. No man is without sin. I repent, and ask forgiveness even though sadly I'll probably go right back out and do it again...what can I say...the flesh is weak.

Asta!!

Rdr4evr · 09-25-2004, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

How so does Christianity ooze with hypocrisy? I bet all you can list is a bunch of stupid generalizations and stereotypes when I ask that right? The only thing that oozes with hypocrisy is mankind itself. When we all grow up and have kids we'll teach em it's not right to steal, or lie, curse, or do drugs, or objectify women and disrespect them when we've all done it ourselves and will do most still even when we have them. Teachings which are synonomous with the Christian way of life. I'm not talking about Priests who do sermons and then molest the alter boys or preachers who take money out of the collection plate to buy their wife a new dress to wear on Sundays. Again that would be making a generalization...just because one priest or preacher or even a hundred do it doesn't mean the entire Church is a bunch of hypocrits. Lots of black and brown people rob convenience stores but you wouldn't dare say that all black and brown people are criminals would you? Hypocrite. If it's the Church it's just fine though. These are the same type of people who wanna beat you up if you try to label them. Christian people have a belief(s) and most of them follow it(them). The ones that you think are hypocrites probably are because they just say they go to church and believe in God but don't really try to follow in his footsteps at all. Judge Christianity by Christ alone...nothing more we're human we are not perfect. On to the topic at hand I like a lot of christian artists like Jennify Knapp, Third Day, 4 Him, Mars Ill, etc. They make great songs and sing with feeling so of course I like them most I do not like though for the obvious reasons listed above. I gotta admit though I do not listen to music that mocks the Christian faith or has anything bad to say about it in general. Why I don't listen to a lot of great bands like A Perfect Circle or Nine Inch Nails. I'm not saying I'm the best Christian either. I try but I still do many things that aren't right with Christian way of life. No man is without sin. I repent, and ask forgiveness even though sadly I'll probably go right back out and do it again...what can I say...the flesh is weak.

Asta!!

Whenever I say hypocrisy, I don’t mean it in the sense that a priest rapes a kid. I mean the religion itself is filled with hypocrisy, and the people that follow it even more so. I don’t think they are "stupid generalizations" either because it is the truth. Christians believe that the only way to the lord is through Christ, correct? So I could be a good person and help others but I will burn in hell, but a murdering rapist or someone similar will go to heaven just because he/she believes in Jesus?? I find that repulsive and plain stupid. Christians want everyone else but themselves to be perfect. This is not a generalization, it is a fact. The bible says the only way to god is through Christ. That in itself is filled with hypocrisy, you can’t argue it.

Techno · 09-25-2004, 10:39 AM

A topic good for some laughs.
See if we're talking about christian X music (where X is some already existing genre, like goth for example) - it's all a little crazy. It's blatantly an effort by those who have religious mental defects* to create an acceptable alternative for those under their control to listen to. Which imo, is enough reason to laugh and point at these silly bands.

Karl

*i.e. those who seek to censor/control music that criticises their religion

trickyy · 09-25-2004, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tspikes51

... The stigma that comes with limiting yourself to listening to one type of music nearly exclusively just doesn't sit well with me. ...

ok, maybe i was writing off an entire genre of music with a broad sweep. but i guess i view christian music somewhat like i view canadian music. there could be some good stuff there, but it usually doesn't appeal to me. in the past, people have exposed me to certain christian ska/punk and alt-rock bands, but i wasn't feeling it. similarly, watching the old much music station and interaction with my canadian friends has failed to turn me on to the tragically hip or the tea party. none of what i have heard has led me to pursue these specific types of music. but just as i mentioned a couple interesting artists that happen to be christian (and i also like several artists that are canadian), i don't actively search for christian/canadian aritsts.

i do limit my listening because that's how i find the "best stuff" in my subjective opinion. almost all of the stuff i like is from the ninja tune label, reviewed on pitchforkmedia.com, played on kexp or kcrw, popular outside north america, is classical (from the baroque to romantic periods), alt-country, space-rock, post-rock, instrumental hip-hop, underground rap, top-40 rap, downbeat, or just isn't very well known. it's often college radio/independent stuff, which covers a range of sound in itself. it's a big chunk, but i'm still limiting myself. this is how i have refined my paths to new music because it has proven to work in the past. most of this stuff was interesting the first time i heard it, so i looked into it. i'm open to anything of course, but (for better or for worse) i will be less receptive to stuff coming from "less reliable sources" (ex. modern country and rock radio stations, TRL, christian bookstores) based upon their past performance.

filtherton · 09-25-2004, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Whenever I say hypocrisy, I don’t mean it in the sense that a priest rapes a kid. I mean the religion itself is filled with hypocrisy, and the people that follow it even more so. I don’t think they are "stupid generalizations" either because it is the truth. Christians believe that the only way to the lord is through Christ, correct? So I could be a good person and help others but I will burn in hell, but a murdering rapist or someone similar will go to heaven just because he/she believes in Jesus?? I find that repulsive and plain stupid. Christians want everyone else but themselves to be perfect. This is not a generalization, it is a fact. The bible says the only way to god is through Christ. That in itself is filled with hypocrisy, you can’t argue it.

Some christians believe that, just like some muslims believe that martyrdom buys you an afterlife of hot sex with a gaggle of virgins. You can't characterize all of christianity as having that perspective though. Many christians believe that all humans are on the path to god, regardless of what they do or believe. So while you may find the idea of jesus as the only doorway to heaven repulsive and stupid(i'm inclined to agree), you're mistaken if you think such things are a commonality across all of christianity.

As for christian music, i don't really care for a lot of music. Having blatant or subtle christian undertones isn't really that important to me. I evaluate christian music, on the rare occasion that i hear it, based on whether the particular brand of christianity i'm hearing is some sort of fundamentalist bullshit, or something based on independent thought. Pedro the lion gets credit as a christian musician who i respect because christianity is only a small part of what he sings about and he is introspective. He doesn't sing "praise hymns", the obnoxious song where someone is proclaiming their love of god over and over again, as if a god would be so insecure as to need the praise of its subjects.

archer2371 · 09-26-2004, 11:35 AM

For me personally, as a Christian, I don't even like some of the stuff that Christian artists come out with. I'm a guitarist, and if I hear an awesome riff, or if the guitarist shreds pretty well, I'll generally listen to it. I just don't hear a lot of that in the stuff put out on Christian Radio stations, usually it sounds too much like Kumbaya for me to get in to it. Bands like Thousand Foot Krutch, P.O.D., etc. with some pretty hard licks that I like, I listen to. On the other side of the coin, I listen to some Slipknot because I absolutely love the way they utilise the guitar, but I can't stand their singing style so I don't listen to it a whole lot. Marilyn Manson, while I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff, he puts out a lot of good stuff music-wise. This is why I've shied away from organized "church" and just read the Bible, mainly New Testament, but I come back to Proverbs a lot, because if I ever admitted that I like stuff that Marilyn Manson puts out, I'd be a pariah, I'd been seen as the guy who isn't really a Christian, which isn't true. Is there hipocrisy in the church, yeah, is there hypocrisy everywhere, yeah, hypocrisy isn't something that's Christian-specific, it's human-specific.

KWSN · 09-26-2004, 02:00 PM

I like some Christian bands for their music and completely disregard their Christianity. It doesn't make any difference. If the music is good, the music is good.

I hate both Evanescense and Creed. If their music was good, I wouldn't hate them, Christian or not.

Norma Jean are a Christian band, and I love their music. I like Five Iron Frenzy, and they're a Christian band. Dead Poetic, Zao, Underoath, As I Lay Dying, The Beautiful Mistake, Blindside, and many more, are Christian bands whose music I like. Conversely, I like numerous artists that are (at least to some extent) anti-Christian (Slayer and Bright Eyes for example). It's not about the message, it's about the music.

tspikes51 · 09-26-2004, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maximusveritas

Well, if you heard a song whose lyrics were comprised of racist hate speech, would you still like it as long as it had a good beat? I'm not comparing Christian music to hate speech, I'm just saying that it is impossible, for me at least, to completely seperate the lyrics from the music.
In fact, the lyrics are the most important part of the song for me. I can still appreciate an instrumental song or even a song with unintelligible lyrics, but I think songs that use their lyrics to convey a deeper meaning are more valuable. You may disagree, but I hope you now understand where people like me are coming from.

#1) I, as many people do, listen to David Allen Coe. Pretty much all racist hate speech.

#2) So, you are saying that music by itself, without words, can't convey a meaning??? I can interpret the meaning of many songs without lyrics. It's called emotional connection, what art is all about. If I want to listen to people's opinions verbally, I would just as soon hear them speak, because I rarely can make sense of what they are singing without reading it first. I'm too busy listening to the music.

#3) You just reduced music to beat??? That's like saying the "Mona Lisa" is just lines. Do not most paintings have form, colors, and values??? Does not most music have rhythm, pitch, dynamics, and expressions (not to mention so many more elements)??? They all meld together to make an extension of the artist's emotion. Sadly, music is becoming more of a convenient way of spreading political views rather than conveying their emotions. I enjoy hard rock music because of the raw energy that goes into it. I enjoy country because it sounds like they are either having fun or in deep sorrow. I enjoy the emotion of music. I only listen to the words after listening to it a few times. Oddly enough, I am a music major, and my chosen instrument is voice. When I sing, I have to interpret what the lyrics mean through my voice, not by just simply repeating the words, but by putting the appropriate expression in my voice, thus making music. It is one thing to like music or appreciate it, it's a totally different thing to connect with it emotionally. I sometimes feel like I am inside music itself, and that I can manipulate its meaning to whatever I please, as long as what the artist has made it into agrees with me. All that, and I don't smoke pot, do any kind of drugs (not even prescriptions), or drink. That's why I find all music attractive. It is sound that the artist has harnessed and formed to convey what he/she is thinking/feeling. Music can be mental, but it has so much more to offer.

tspikes51 · 09-26-2004, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KWSN

I like some Christian bands for their music and completely disregard their Christianity. It doesn't make any difference. If the music is good, the music is good.

I hate both Evanescense and Creed. If their music was good, I wouldn't hate them, Christian or not.

Norma Jean are a Christian band, and I love their music. I like Five Iron Frenzy, and they're a Christian band. Dead Poetic, Zao, Underoath, As I Lay Dying, The Beautiful Mistake, Blindside, and many more, are Christian bands whose music I like. Conversely, I like numerous artists that are (at least to some extent) anti-Christian (Slayer and Bright Eyes for example). It's not about the message, it's about the music.

Well put. I love Slayer. I love Blindside (in fact, I am listening to them right now). I was just listening to a song by Propagandhi that talks about him being gay (I had to read the lyrics to figure it out), which is against my moral code, but hey, while I don't like the fact that he's gay, I like the guy, and his music especially. The music just has that special something about it. Lyrics just make it easier for shallow or lazy people to get meaning out of the music. I treat the voice as another instrument, usually the melody. Someday I'll write a song, and just for this reason, make lyrics for it that totally are unintelligible and meaningless. Then I'll write one where the words contradict themselves. Now, it won't sell extremely well probably, but somebody will be able to connect with it, and will like it. For example, I have no idea what Rammstein's songs are about, or even what any of the words mean, but I absolutely love it.

phyzix525 · 09-27-2004, 07:03 PM

OK, I grew up listening to christian music. Back in the day when it was DC talk, Micheal W smith, geoff more and the distance, newsboys and audio adrenaline.

My musical tastes have grown up and most christian music has not. I knew the very first time I heard Evanessence that they were, or had been a christian band without ever knowing who they were, same with switchfoot. There are some bands that are getting air play that some people do not even know are christian, like Chevelle and MXPX.

In my opinoin there were only a handfull of bands in the 90s that were decent christian bands. If some of you would look them up I am sure you would like them no matter what you think about christians.

Hoi Polloi, Flemming and John, Curious fools, Starflyer 59, danielson, driver eight, Havolina Rail CO, Mike Knott and MXPX come to mind.

The best Christian band ever? Poor Old Lu.

http://www.pooroldlu.com/

Please everyone listen to some of their stuff from the 90's. Its some of the greatest stuff to come out of the Christian music scene.

Some say they sound sorta like Mates of State. but im not so sure.

Sargeman · 09-27-2004, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

(the following is my opinion, no offense meant to anyone)

I listen to it if I want a good laugh, kinda like how I'll bust out with a Milli Vanilli/Vanilla Ice/MC Hammer mp3 every now and then. DC Talk is hilarious, but the thing that REALLY makes it funny is that they are SERIOUS.

Hearing songs about "being saved" or "praising the lord" doesn't really hold any interest to me at all, and I can see why most others don't like it either. The songs just aren't very interesting and the lyrics are often sappy/lame. Creed and Evanescence are two very popular Christian bands... and there isn't a single song that isn't cheesy.

I wanna hear songs about important real life issues that affect EVERYONE, like drug use, hypocrisy in society, oppression, etc, not things like, "I used to be bad, but then I found Jesus and I'm happy. You should find him too or you'll be miserable."

Pretty much the same reason I don't listen to gospel, jewish, buddhist, islamic music.

Again, you're generalizing about Christian music. The same band that you think is hilarious, has songs about real life issues. Obviously you haven't heard "What have we become" by DC Talk. Michael Taits solo album, he was one of the singers of DC Talk, has quite a few songs that talk about racism, death, your father walking out of your life.

To me it's no more ridiculous than hearing some rap song about how some playa has hit all these HO's, or some Country guy that lost his love to his best friend so he's getting in his pickup and going to the bar, or some metal song that sings about tearing you to shreds and eating your insides. It's all hypocrisy!

irateplatypus · 09-27-2004, 09:36 PM

i'm a christian who doesn't really enjoy the bulk of christian music... but i've got to call BS on a lot of the reasons some posters are giving.

you don't listen to christian music because of hypocrisy? can you think of anything more hypcritical and fake than the secular music industry? i can't speak for any single person on here, but most of the music you hear on the radio is probably more manufactured and disengenuous. christian music may be hypocritical at times... but the secular industry has got nothing on it in that department.

another classical reason is lyrical content. it's amazing how people can reject a song about Christ but have no problem listening to lyrics glorifying drug abuse, rape, murder, etc.

i think the most sincere argument against christian music is that most of it just plain sucks.

There are some bright spots though. Third day, Newsboys, Jars of Clay and a few others could compete with most of the secular bands out there on a level playing field. DC Talk is kinda funny a lot of the time especially their old stuff. They got better towards the end, but it was truly a hilarious beginning. For those not used to listening to christian music within a christian community... trust me, a lot of people just listen to it for smiles and its campy sort of style.

Anyone remember that DC Talk album "Free at Last"? LOL, good times.

K-Wise · 09-28-2004, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Whenever I say hypocrisy, I don’t mean it in the sense that a priest rapes a kid. I mean the religion itself is filled with hypocrisy, and the people that follow it even more so. I don’t think they are "stupid generalizations" either because it is the truth. Christians believe that the only way to the lord is through Christ, correct? So I could be a good person and help others but I will burn in hell, but a murdering rapist or someone similar will go to heaven just because he/she believes in Jesus?? I find that repulsive and plain stupid. Christians want everyone else but themselves to be perfect. This is not a generalization, it is a fact. The bible says the only way to god is through Christ. That in itself is filled with hypocrisy, you can’t argue it.

(Let me note that I am not responding with anger or lashing out on you. I'm simply enlightening you to the falacy of your statements in hopes to give you a better understanding of a true Christian belief.)

First of all you can't just "believe" in Jesus and expect to get in so there goes your whole argument right there. You don't know what you are talking about. You cannot get into heaven through faith alone. Faith being believing in Christ...you also have to have works...faith without works is almost meaningless. Christians do not want everyone else but themselves to be perfect because no one can be perfect. I already told you that. You're basing your opinions on fundamental beliefs. So that is a generalization because I myself am a Christian and I do not expect you to be perfect. I don't even expect myself to be perfect.

Quote:

The bible says the only way to god is through Christ. That in itself is filled with hypocrisy, you can’t argue it.

I can't argue it? Think about what you just said. Do you even know who Christ is? Christ is basically the human manifestation of all that God represents. So how is it that the only way to God through him is a hypocrisy in and of itself? I don't think you quite grasp the definition of hypocrisy enough to be throwing the word around so authoritatively. Maybe you should look it up again.

Asta!!

Rdr4evr · 09-28-2004, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

(Let me note that I am not responding with anger or lashing out on you. I'm simply enlightening you to the falacy of your statements in hopes to give you a better understanding of a true Christian belief.)

Well you certainly did what you did not intend. Just more proof that Christians will bash others who do not agree with their religion.

Quote:

I can't argue it? Think about what you just said. Do you even know who Christ is? Christ is basically the human manifestation of all that God represents. So how is it that the only way to God through him is a hypocrisy in and of itself? I don't think you quite grasp the definition of hypocrisy enough to be throwing the word around so authoritatively. Maybe you should look it up again.

Asta!!

Do I know who Christ is. To me he is nothing but a mere story that was put together by man to make us believe in a higher power so we can live in peace...too bad that idea failed miserably. I have come to this conclusion partly because there is no historical record of Jesus. Therefore I wont believe something just because the Church wants me to. Even if that were not the case though, I probably would still not believe for the sheer hypocrisy I explain below ( you know, the one that I don’t know the meaning of).

So you say Christ is a manifestation of god in human form, which basically means he IS God. Unless I am completely missing something here, the bible seems to state otherwise. I listed quotes below, why don’t you try and change those into another meaning as well. Maybe Jesus just enjoys speaking in both third and first person for fun.

John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "

John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."

John 4:34 "Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work.' "

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."

Luke 22:42 "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from me; nevertheless not my will, but Yours, be done."

Matthew 20:23 "...But sitting at my right hand or my left is not mine to give. That is for those to whom it has been reserved by my Father."

John 5:19 "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."

John 5:30 "I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me."

John 8:42 "Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but He sent me.' "

John 15:2 "My Father takes away every branch in me that bears not fruit; he purges it; that it may bring forth more fruit."

John 8:31 "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God”

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

John 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me."

My comment about hypocrisy in that the only way to God is through Jesus (which are not the same) is that it denounces all other religions. If you are Muslim, Jew, etc, you will burn in hell.... why? Because you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior.

Please do enlighten me with your wisdom and knowledge, as I am nothing but a clueless idiot who doesn't know anything.

filtherton · 09-28-2004, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Stuff

It is not difficult to take random one-line quotes from anything and make your source seem like whatever you want it to seem like. The bible is a complex book, and one-line quotes do it no justice.

Like i said before, not all christians believe that the only way to god is through christ. Not all christians believe that adherence to a different, non christian dogma earns one a one way ticket to hell. In your rush to pigeonhole all of christianity you do yourself a disservice.

K-Wise · 09-28-2004, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rdr4evr

Well you certainly did what you did not intend. Just more proof that Christians will bash others who do not agree with their religion.

Do I know who Christ is. To me he is nothing but a mere story that was put together by man to make us believe in a higher power so we can live in peace...too bad that idea failed miserably. I have come to this conclusion partly because there is no historical record of Jesus. Therefore I wont believe something just because the Church wants me to. Even if that were not the case though, I probably would still not believe for the sheer hypocrisy I explain below ( you know, the one that I don’t know the meaning of).

So you say Christ is a manifestation of god in human form, which basically means he IS God. Unless I am completely missing something here, the bible seems to state otherwise. I listed quotes below, why don’t you try and change those into another meaning as well. Maybe Jesus just enjoys speaking in both third and first person for fun.

John 7:16 "Jesus answered them and said, 'My doctrine is not mine, but His who sent me.' "

John 14:24 "He who does not love me does not keep my words; and the word which you hear is not mine but The Father's who sent me."

John 12:49 "For I have not spoken on my own authority; but the Father who sent me gave me a command, what I should say and what I should speak."

John 4:34 "Jesus said to them, 'My food is to do the will of Him who sent me, and to accomplish His work.' "

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me."

Luke 22:42 "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from me; nevertheless not my will, but Yours, be done."

Matthew 20:23 "...But sitting at my right hand or my left is not mine to give. That is for those to whom it has been reserved by my Father."

John 5:19 "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do..."

John 5:30 "I can of myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and my judgment is righteous, because I do not seek my own will but the will of the Father who sent me."

John 8:42 "Jesus said to them, 'If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but He sent me.' "

John 15:2 "My Father takes away every branch in me that bears not fruit; he purges it; that it may bring forth more fruit."

John 8:31 "You are determined to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God”

Mark 13:32 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."

Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."

John 7:16 So Jesus answered them, "My teaching is not mine, but His who sent me."

My comment about hypocrisy in that the only way to God is through Jesus (which are not the same) is that it denounces all other religions. If you are Muslim, Jew, etc, you will burn in hell.... why? Because you have not accepted Jesus as your Savior.

Please do enlighten me with your wisdom and knowledge, as I am nothing but a clueless idiot who doesn't know anything.

Again you are wrong. This time on an entirely different level. Jesus Christ did exist, and he was crucified. I don't know what history books you've read but he is in ACTUAL history books and he the man actually did exist. And Jesus himself says that the Jews will be taken up. Jesus himself was a Jew so you think he did not make it into heaven? Muslims believe in Allah and if you've ever read the Koran(sp?) I hear the first book is exactly the same as the bible word for word. Catholics believe that Allah is the same God we worship just called a different name. So no Christians do NOT denounce ALL other religions you're probably basing your opinions off of ignorant Protestants who don't even know the true history of the church let alone what they REALLY believe in. I have met Protestants who shun all other religions even Catholicism..they believe we "worship" the Virgin Mary which any true Catholic will tell you is completely false. And never did I "bash" you. I corrected you as I am correcting you now. I'm not even debating whether or not you "believe" in or agree with my religion which is another thing you are wrong about. I'm only correcting the untruths you keep throwing about like you actually know what you are talking about. Coming from a man who doesn't believe in any of this how would you know what a real Christian really believes? Have you ever heard of the Holy Trinity? And the idea of it? Father, Son, Holy Ghost? See I myself never said Jesus WAS God..you said that I said that. However Jesus and God himself have.

John 10:30 - Jesus says "The Father and I are one."

Hebrews 1:8,9 - God the Father speaks "But unto the Son he sayeth, Thy throne oh God is forever and ever. A sceptre of thy kingdom Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; Therefore, God even Thy God hath annointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Asta!!

Rdr4evr · 09-28-2004, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K-Wise

Again you are wrong. This time on an entirely different level. Jesus Christ did exist, and he was crucified. I don't know what history books you've read but he is in ACTUAL history books and he the man actually did exist. And Jesus himself says that the Jews will be taken up. Jesus himself was a Jew so you think he did not make it into heaven? Muslims believe in Allah and if you've ever read the Koran(sp?) I hear the first book is exactly the same as the bible word for word. Catholics believe that Allah is the same God we worship just called a different name. So no Christians do NOT denounce ALL other religions you're probably basing your opinions off of ignorant Protestants who don't even know the true history of the church let alone what they REALLY believe in. I have met Protestants who shun all other religions even Catholicism..they believe we "worship" the Virgin Mary which any true Catholic will tell you is completely false. And never did I "bash" you. I corrected you as I am correcting you now. I'm not even debating whether or not you "believe" in or agree with my religion which is another thing you are wrong about. I'm only correcting the untruths you keep throwing about like you actually know what you are talking about. Coming from a man who doesn't believe in any of this how would you know what a real Christian really believes? Have you ever heard of the Holy Trinity? And the idea of it? Father, Son, Holy Ghost? See I myself never said Jesus WAS God..you said that I said that. However Jesus and God himself have.

John 10:30 - Jesus says "The Father and I are one."

Hebrews 1:8,9 - God the Father speaks "But unto the Son he sayeth, Thy throne oh God is forever and ever. A sceptre of thy kingdom Thou hast loved righteousness and hated iniquity; Therefore, God even Thy God hath annointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows."

Asta!!

LOL! Of course EVERYTHING I said is incorrect. I would expect that from a Christian. I need to get an unbiased objective opinion from someone who has not been brainwashed.

Jesus says "the father and I are one." yet he also says all of those other quotes I typed that you don’t want to mention. Jesus sure was an indecisive person. He really should have made up his mind.

All I will say is that all claims of Jesus are from hearsay accounts. I know you don’t want to believe that because your church will not allow you to, and you will immediately brush it off as "wrong", but it is the truth. Anyways, don’t bother arguing with your subjective ness, it kills your argument.

K-Wise · 09-28-2004, 03:42 PM

Man this kind of argument will never end. I never said you are wrong about Jesus reffering to God as the Father. But he also said He and Him were one..God himself said it as well. Hypocrisy is the feigning(pretend) to be what one is not. What I listed in my first post and the examples of priests and preachers is hypocrisy..not what you are reffering to. Because see you cannot prove that any other religion is right either so it can't be a hypocrisy. So no you are not using the word correctly. You might be looking for the word contradiction or something of the sort. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore I've already said all I need to say whether or not my believes are true or not is yet to be seen. I have outlined the difference from what we actually believe and what you THINK we believe and I have faith that they, my beliefs, are true. I of course cannot prove they are true which is why this type of argument will never end. I could probably never prove that God exists. But in truth I don't think anyone could ever prove he doesn't exist. Cause scientists keep searching and searching for answers to how we work, how our bodies work, how we came into being, how certain things in the world work and they will probably never understand how everything works. They're whole lives revolve around answers and questions that need answers trying endlessly to prove that we really are alone out there. But some of these theories (thats all they are are theories because they can't prove them beyond a shadow of a doubt) are just as far fetched as an everliving always existing being out there who watches over all of us. I won't argue with you anymore there is no point. I can't change the way you believe and I'm not trying to either. I respect your beliefs you're entitled to them. I was only defending my own beliefs. If I keep arguing with you it'll never end...Halx might even close the thread I don't know. So thats it I've said my piece you can keep going but I promise I'm not.

Asta!!

tspikes51 · 09-28-2004, 06:31 PM

Guys, I didn't intend this to be another Christian/Whatever else war. I just wanted people to think about why they reject the music that they do, and why we put labels on music. Christian music just seemed to me like the music that people reject the most.

tspikes51 · 09-28-2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irateplatypus

i'm a christian who doesn't really enjoy the bulk of christian music... but i've got to call BS on a lot of the reasons some posters are giving.

you don't listen to christian music because of hypocrisy? can you think of anything more hypcritical and fake than the secular music industry? i can't speak for any single person on here, but most of the music you hear on the radio is probably more manufactured and disengenuous. christian music may be hypocritical at times... but the secular industry has got nothing on it in that department.

another classical reason is lyrical content. it's amazing how people can reject a song about Christ but have no problem listening to lyrics glorifying drug abuse, rape, murder, etc.

i think the most sincere argument against christian music is that most of it just plain sucks.

There are some bright spots though. Third day, Newsboys, Jars of Clay and a few others could compete with most of the secular bands out there on a level playing field. DC Talk is kinda funny a lot of the time especially their old stuff. They got better towards the end, but it was truly a hilarious beginning. For those not used to listening to christian music within a christian community... trust me, a lot of people just listen to it for smiles and its campy sort of style.

Best argument so far, or at least the one I agree with most. Most Christian music does suck, but does that mean that you can hate a song just b/c it is Christian? Also, in the case of hypocrisy; look at people like Good Charlotte and Avril Lavigne who, while condemning pop culture, define it. Now that's hypocrisy.

To the subject of ALL Christians being the same way... I honestly think that you should do whatever suits you at the time. Most sincere Christians, and adherents to other religions seem to think so to. It doesn't mean I agree with what you're doing, it doesn't mean I condemn you, just as long as you have thought about what you believe before arguing it. So don't put that label on every Christian, please

phyzix525 · 09-29-2004, 03:30 PM

yeah how about getting back to the music.

tspikes51 · 09-29-2004, 07:55 PM

phyzix, are you an Ohio native??? Just wondering 'cause of the avatar.

Neptune · 10-06-2004, 03:29 AM

I listened to a lot of Christian music in my younger years. Stryper, Lighbearer, The Toerags, Vengeance etc etc. At the time I was involved in the church scene and the music seemed quite normal to me.

I am not involved with the church scene any more, for my own reasons, and from the outside it certainly does look a lot different. I've never agreed with the whole 'round the sinners up and convince them that our way is the best' philosphy, and Christian music reeks of those tones.

Not many secular bands write songs which are all about the same thing, because that gets boring. A Chrisian album is 11-12 songs of 'outreach' which takes away from the pure muisical talent. I find it hard to relax and get into the feel of the music when I am at the same time being told I am living my life the wrong way and I should be doing it differently.

So to sum up, I don't dislike Christian music because of any cool factor, I dislike it because Christian artists seem to have one track minds and ruin good music by constantly preaching to me. It makes me uncomfortable.
Imagine an album full of some other kind of advertising... That wouldn't be enjoyable either!

09-24-2004, 05:04 AM	#1 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	Views of Christian Music Why do most non-Christian people, in general, look down on Christian music? It doesn't make sense to me. I have some friends who will listen to something, like it, and then find out it is "Christian" and hate it. It isn't any different from any other kind of music except for sometimes it has a different subject lyrically. Quite a few "Christian" groups write plenty of songs that have nothing to do with church, God, Jesus, or religion at all. I honestly don't understand. I could see maybe if it were a matter of music taste, but to dislike ALL Christian music because of the simple fact that it is Christian music is just wrong. I don't even consider it a separate genre, and I don't know why it is. I can see not liking country or rap, but Christian music just covers such a wide array of genres, I don't see how anyone can't like SOMETHING. There also seems to be an certain level of acceptance, but it is limited to Switchfoot and P.O.D., and that's soley because of marketing. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

09-24-2004, 07:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	(the following is my opinion, no offense meant to anyone) I listen to it if I want a good laugh, kinda like how I'll bust out with a Milli Vanilli/Vanilla Ice/MC Hammer mp3 every now and then. DC Talk is hilarious, but the thing that REALLY makes it funny is that they are SERIOUS. Hearing songs about "being saved" or "praising the lord" doesn't really hold any interest to me at all, and I can see why most others don't like it either. The songs just aren't very interesting and the lyrics are often sappy/lame. Creed and Evanescence are two very popular Christian bands... and there isn't a single song that isn't cheesy. I wanna hear songs about important real life issues that affect EVERYONE, like drug use, hypocrisy in society, oppression, etc, not things like, "I used to be bad, but then I found Jesus and I'm happy. You should find him too or you'll be miserable." Pretty much the same reason I don't listen to gospel, jewish, buddhist, islamic music. __________________ I love lamp.

09-24-2004, 07:42 AM	#6 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	I was not aware that Evanescence was considered a christian band? Where does that info come from? __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

09-24-2004, 07:50 AM	#7 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	What do you mean "where does that info come from"? The band? The lyrics? I thought everyone knew. Their songs scream christianity. http://www.cmcentral.com/news/1271.html http://www.christianitytoday.com/mus...03/fallen.html __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 09-24-2004 at 07:54 AM..

09-24-2004, 08:03 AM	#10 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	They are a christian band, trust me. Just listen to the songs. [edit] I didn't even read the links. Just search on google, should be self explanitory. The band has actually said they were christian before (the singer), so that's pretty funny that it has her quoted as saying that That'd be like a band actually praising satan and then being surprised when people label them as devil worshippers or a "satanic band". __________________ I love lamp. Last edited by Stompy; 09-24-2004 at 08:06 AM..

09-24-2004, 05:25 AM	#2 (permalink)
Gortexfogg I and I Location: Stillwater, OK	I don't know about other people, but for me I usually frown on Christian music because it can be plain silly. The lyrics and messages being sent out aren't interesting or worthwhile to listen to. Also, a lot of people don't liked to be preached to, which is something Christian music has a tendency to do. However, the little Christian music I do listen too (Dylan's stuff and Ceili Rain) has lyrics that are intriguing or ambiguous, make you think and aren't just ripped out of pslams or something.

09-24-2004, 05:34 AM	#3 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	I don't dislike Christian music per se. What I don't like is the hypocrisy and santimony which seems to be rife in the Christian music scene. Other than that I have heard several Christian artists that were very talented and have even been in bands with people who "would prefer to perform Christian music." I think the stigma associated with being a listener of Christian music is what causes your friends to claim that they hate it. This attitude usually goes away with age and/or wisdom. Unfortunately, the two aren't mutually inclusive. You don't have to be a Christian to like Christian music. I like early Metallica ... I'm not a metal-head.

09-24-2004, 07:20 AM	#4 (permalink)
trickyy ►	i don't gravitate toward it because it is too predictable. to me, if a groups falls under the wing of the christian media empire, the band will be limited in their ability to express themselves. they have to be acceptible for the shelves of a christian bookstore, so the content and tone of the music will be a certain way. not always, but usually. a lot of the christian music i have heard just isn't that good. i'm not sure why. many acts are marketed as the "christian version of _____" (insert popular mainstream artist). so it's like a sub par version of already sub par music. since i don't really like the mainstream artists to being with, i do not really embrace the christian counterpart either. one christian artist that i like is sufjan stevens. i don't think he is very associated with the whole christian media empire, which is a good thing in my opinion. yet he is doing his own thing, making interesting music. and he is has achieved appeal with many people (regardless of their beliefs), at least on the underground. another worthy group is the danielson famile, who have been recognized for their unique sound. in these cases, i think the quality and originality of the craft supersedes the label of "christian music."

09-24-2004, 07:54 AM	#8 (permalink)
vanblah Junkie	Both Creed and Evanescence started as Christian bands but "fell from grace" shortly after making it big. How convenient.

09-24-2004, 08:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	oh I have...I listen to them everyday, Fallen stays in my cd player in my office and when I get tired of talk radio it gets switched to that, (sorry guys I love her voice) and have for quite awhile...their lyrics never once impressed me as "christian music", which about 5 years ago was music I listened to all the time. I listen to several bands that could have songs that I would consider on the "spiritual" side...but that doesnt mean I consider them a christian genre edit....I never really read up on them...the only bands I every "read" on are Ratt and Enuff Z'nuff...anybody else I just "enjoy" the music....I dont hunt out stuff to read on them...I guess I get a different meaning out of Amy's lyrics cause I def wouldnt call some of them christian Its interesting to know that some people think of them that way....hmm Creed..they sing that song My Sacrifice right? I dont know much about them or know many of their songs __________________ I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!* Last edited by ShaniFaye; 09-24-2004 at 08:10 AM..

09-24-2004, 08:13 AM	#12 (permalink)
Rdr4evr Banned	I agree with Stompy on this. I find the music more humorous than anything. I personally never understood Christianity as it oozes with hypocrisy, and the music is just more of the same drivel in my opinion.

09-24-2004, 08:14 AM	#13 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Haha, well, I don't classify the music. They are known as a christian band though. Take it up w/ the fans I guess There's a reason why they (and Creed) make it big on those lists, and it's not because a christian fella randomly decided to pick "pop band X". __________________ I love lamp.

09-24-2004, 09:11 AM	#14 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	if by christian music you mean palestrina, for example, it is quite lovely...a whole range of it, through messaien. i even like some arvo part. all of this is music that reaches for something that it can not quite grasp--yes. if you mean music on the order of creed: it is a joke, musically and conceptually. i would rather listen to black metal. or psychic tv. neither of which i go particularly out of my way to hear. but at least there is something going on through the music, a kind of blast from somewhere else. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-24-2004, 09:41 PM	#17 (permalink)
maximusveritas Winner	Well, if you heard a song whose lyrics were comprised of racist hate speech, would you still like it as long as it had a good beat? I'm not comparing Christian music to hate speech, I'm just saying that it is impossible, for me at least, to completely seperate the lyrics from the music. In fact, the lyrics are the most important part of the song for me. I can still appreciate an instrumental song or even a song with unintelligible lyrics, but I think songs that use their lyrics to convey a deeper meaning are more valuable. You may disagree, but I hope you now understand where people like me are coming from.

09-25-2004, 10:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
Techno Upright Location: In this weak human flesh	A topic good for some laughs. See if we're talking about christian X music (where X is some already existing genre, like goth for example) - it's all a little crazy. It's blatantly an effort by those who have religious mental defects* to create an acceptable alternative for those under their control to listen to. Which imo, is enough reason to laugh and point at these silly bands. Karl *i.e. those who seek to censor/control music that criticises their religion __________________ "Don't take any guff from these swine"

09-26-2004, 11:35 AM	#23 (permalink)
archer2371 Sarge of Blood Gulch Red Outpost Number One Location: On the front lines against our very enemy	For me personally, as a Christian, I don't even like some of the stuff that Christian artists come out with. I'm a guitarist, and if I hear an awesome riff, or if the guitarist shreds pretty well, I'll generally listen to it. I just don't hear a lot of that in the stuff put out on Christian Radio stations, usually it sounds too much like Kumbaya for me to get in to it. Bands like Thousand Foot Krutch, P.O.D., etc. with some pretty hard licks that I like, I listen to. On the other side of the coin, I listen to some Slipknot because I absolutely love the way they utilise the guitar, but I can't stand their singing style so I don't listen to it a whole lot. Marilyn Manson, while I don't agree with him on a lot of stuff, he puts out a lot of good stuff music-wise. This is why I've shied away from organized "church" and just read the Bible, mainly New Testament, but I come back to Proverbs a lot, because if I ever admitted that I like stuff that Marilyn Manson puts out, I'd be a pariah, I'd been seen as the guy who isn't really a Christian, which isn't true. Is there hipocrisy in the church, yeah, is there hypocrisy everywhere, yeah, hypocrisy isn't something that's Christian-specific, it's human-specific. __________________ "This ain't no Ice Cream Social!" "Hey Grif, Chupathingy...how bout that? I like it...got a ring to it." "I have no earthly idea what it is I just saw, or what this place is, or where in the hell O'Malley is! My only choice is to blame Grif for coming up with such a flawed plan. Stupid, stupid Grif."

09-26-2004, 02:00 PM	#24 (permalink)
KWSN green	I like some Christian bands for their music and completely disregard their Christianity. It doesn't make any difference. If the music is good, the music is good. I hate both Evanescense and Creed. If their music was good, I wouldn't hate them, Christian or not. Norma Jean are a Christian band, and I love their music. I like Five Iron Frenzy, and they're a Christian band. Dead Poetic, Zao, Underoath, As I Lay Dying, The Beautiful Mistake, Blindside, and many more, are Christian bands whose music I like. Conversely, I like numerous artists that are (at least to some extent) anti-Christian (Slayer and Bright Eyes for example). It's not about the message, it's about the music. __________________ Your arms are broken!

09-27-2004, 07:03 PM	#27 (permalink)
phyzix525 Psycho Location: Broken Arrow, OK	OK, I grew up listening to christian music. Back in the day when it was DC talk, Micheal W smith, geoff more and the distance, newsboys and audio adrenaline. My musical tastes have grown up and most christian music has not. I knew the very first time I heard Evanessence that they were, or had been a christian band without ever knowing who they were, same with switchfoot. There are some bands that are getting air play that some people do not even know are christian, like Chevelle and MXPX. In my opinoin there were only a handfull of bands in the 90s that were decent christian bands. If some of you would look them up I am sure you would like them no matter what you think about christians. Hoi Polloi, Flemming and John, Curious fools, Starflyer 59, danielson, driver eight, Havolina Rail CO, Mike Knott and MXPX come to mind. The best Christian band ever? Poor Old Lu. http://www.pooroldlu.com/ Please everyone listen to some of their stuff from the 90's. Its some of the greatest stuff to come out of the Christian music scene. Some say they sound sorta like Mates of State. but im not so sure. __________________ It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

09-27-2004, 09:36 PM	#29 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm a christian who doesn't really enjoy the bulk of christian music... but i've got to call BS on a lot of the reasons some posters are giving. you don't listen to christian music because of hypocrisy? can you think of anything more hypcritical and fake than the secular music industry? i can't speak for any single person on here, but most of the music you hear on the radio is probably more manufactured and disengenuous. christian music may be hypocritical at times... but the secular industry has got nothing on it in that department. another classical reason is lyrical content. it's amazing how people can reject a song about Christ but have no problem listening to lyrics glorifying drug abuse, rape, murder, etc. i think the most sincere argument against christian music is that most of it just plain sucks. There are some bright spots though. Third day, Newsboys, Jars of Clay and a few others could compete with most of the secular bands out there on a level playing field. DC Talk is kinda funny a lot of the time especially their old stuff. They got better towards the end, but it was truly a hilarious beginning. For those not used to listening to christian music within a christian community... trust me, a lot of people just listen to it for smiles and its campy sort of style. Anyone remember that DC Talk album "Free at Last"? LOL, good times. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill Last edited by irateplatypus; 09-27-2004 at 09:38 PM..

09-28-2004, 03:42 PM	#35 (permalink)
K-Wise It's All About The Ass!! Location: In a pool of mayonnaise!!	Man this kind of argument will never end. I never said you are wrong about Jesus reffering to God as the Father. But he also said He and Him were one..God himself said it as well. Hypocrisy is the feigning(pretend) to be what one is not. What I listed in my first post and the examples of priests and preachers is hypocrisy..not what you are reffering to. Because see you cannot prove that any other religion is right either so it can't be a hypocrisy. So no you are not using the word correctly. You might be looking for the word contradiction or something of the sort. I'm not gonna argue with you anymore I've already said all I need to say whether or not my believes are true or not is yet to be seen. I have outlined the difference from what we actually believe and what you THINK we believe and I have faith that they, my beliefs, are true. I of course cannot prove they are true which is why this type of argument will never end. I could probably never prove that God exists. But in truth I don't think anyone could ever prove he doesn't exist. Cause scientists keep searching and searching for answers to how we work, how our bodies work, how we came into being, how certain things in the world work and they will probably never understand how everything works. They're whole lives revolve around answers and questions that need answers trying endlessly to prove that we really are alone out there. But some of these theories (thats all they are are theories because they can't prove them beyond a shadow of a doubt) are just as far fetched as an everliving always existing being out there who watches over all of us. I won't argue with you anymore there is no point. I can't change the way you believe and I'm not trying to either. I respect your beliefs you're entitled to them. I was only defending my own beliefs. If I keep arguing with you it'll never end...Halx might even close the thread I don't know. So thats it I've said my piece you can keep going but I promise I'm not. Asta!! __________________ "I love music and it's my parents fault (closing statement)." - Me..quoting myself...from when I said that...On TFP..thats here...Tilted Forum Project *It ain't goodbye, it's see ya later! I'll miss you guys!* - Asta!!

09-28-2004, 06:31 PM	#36 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	Guys, I didn't intend this to be another Christian/Whatever else war. I just wanted people to think about why they reject the music that they do, and why we put labels on music. Christian music just seemed to me like the music that people reject the most. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

09-29-2004, 03:30 PM	#38 (permalink)
phyzix525 Psycho Location: Broken Arrow, OK	yeah how about getting back to the music. __________________ It's hard to remember we're alive for the first time It's hard to remember we're alive for the last time It's hard to remember to live before you die It's hard to remember that our lives are such a short time It's hard to remember when it takes such a long time

09-29-2004, 07:55 PM	#39 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	phyzix, are you an Ohio native??? Just wondering 'cause of the avatar. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

10-06-2004, 03:29 AM	#40 (permalink)
Neptune Tilted Location: Sydney Australia	I listened to a lot of Christian music in my younger years. Stryper, Lighbearer, The Toerags, Vengeance etc etc. At the time I was involved in the church scene and the music seemed quite normal to me. I am not involved with the church scene any more, for my own reasons, and from the outside it certainly does look a lot different. I've never agreed with the whole 'round the sinners up and convince them that our way is the best' philosphy, and Christian music reeks of those tones. Not many secular bands write songs which are all about the same thing, because that gets boring. A Chrisian album is 11-12 songs of 'outreach' which takes away from the pure muisical talent. I find it hard to relax and get into the feel of the music when I am at the same time being told I am living my life the wrong way and I should be doing it differently. So to sum up, I don't dislike Christian music because of any cool factor, I dislike it because Christian artists seem to have one track minds and ruin good music by constantly preaching to me. It makes me uncomfortable. Imagine an album full of some other kind of advertising... That wouldn't be enjoyable either!