New Support for the Atkins Diet

[FastShark85]

Yahoo Article finds evidence that the Atkins way of eating may prove some nay-sayers wrong.

FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. - The dietary establishment has long argued it's impossible, but a new study offers intriguing evidence for the idea that people on low-carbohydrate diets can actually eat more than folks on standard lowfat plans and still lose weight.

Perhaps no idea is more controversial in the diet world than the contention — long espoused by the late Dr. Robert Atkins — that people on low-carbohydrate diets can consume more calories without paying a price on the scales.

Over the past year, several small studies have shown, to many experts' surprise, that the Atkins approach actually does work better, at least in the short run. Dieters lose more than those on a standard American Heart Association plan without driving up their cholesterol levels, as many feared would happen.

Skeptics contend, however, that these dieters simply must be eating less. Maybe the low-carb diets are more satisfying, so they do not get so hungry. Or perhaps the food choices are just so limited that low-carb dieters are too bored to eat a lot.

Now, a small but carefully controlled study offers a strong hint that maybe Atkins was right: People on low-carb, high-fat diets actually can eat more.

The study, directed by Penelope Greene of the Harvard School of Public Health and presented at a meeting here this week of the American Association for the Study of Obesity, found that people eating an extra 300 calories a day on a very low-carb regimen lost just as much during a 12-week study as those on a standard lowfat diet.

Over the course of the study, they consumed an extra 25,000 calories. That should have added up to about seven pounds. But for some reason, it did not.

"There does indeed seem to be something about a low-carb diet that says you can eat more calories and lose a similar amount of weight," Greene said.

That strikes at one of the most revered beliefs in nutrition: A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It does not matter whether they come from bacon or mashed potatoes; they all go on the waistline in just the same way.

Not even Greene says this settles the case, but some at the meeting found her report fascinating.

"A lot of our assumptions about a calorie is a calorie are being challenged," said Marlene Schwartz of Yale. "As scientists, we need to be open-minded."

Others, though, found the data hard to swallow.

"It doesn't make sense, does it?" said Barbara Rolls of Pennsylvania State University. "It violates the laws of thermodynamics. No one has ever found any miraculous metabolic effects."

In the study, 21 overweight volunteers were divided into three categories: Two groups were randomly assigned to either lowfat or low-carb diets with 1,500 calories for women and 1,800 for men; a third group was also low-carb but got an extra 300 calories a day.

The study was unique because all the food was prepared at an upscale Italian restaurant in Cambridge, Mass., so researchers knew exactly what they ate. Most earlier studies simply sent people home with diet plans to follow as best they could.

Each afternoon, the volunteers picked up that evening's dinner, a bedtime snack and the next day's breakfast and lunch. Instead of lots of red meat and saturated fat, which many find disturbing about low-carb diets, these people ate mostly fish, chicken, salads, vegetables and unsaturated oils.

"This is not what people think of when they think about an Atkins diet," Greene said. Nevertheless, the Atkins organization agreed to pay for the research, though it had no input into the study's design, conduct or analysis.

Everyone's food looked similar but was cooked to different recipes. The low-carb meals were 5 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 65 percent fat. The rest got 55 percent carbohydrate, 15 percent protein and 30 percent fat.

In the end, everyone lost weight. Those on the lower-cal, low-carb regimen took off 23 pounds, while people who got the same calories on the lowfat approach lost 17 pounds. The big surprise, though, was that volunteers getting the extra 300 calories a day of low-carb food lost 20 pounds.

"It's very intriguing, but it raises more questions than it answers," said Gary Foster of the University of Pennsylvania. "There is lots of data to suggest this shouldn't be true."

Greene said she can only guess why the people getting the extra calories did so well. Maybe they burned up more calories digesting their food.

Dr. Samuel Klein of Washington University, the obesity organization's president, called the results "hard to believe" and said perhaps the people eating more calories also got more exercise or they were less apt to cheat because they were less hungry.

[WhatAboutBob]

Ask any good doctor. It is totally bad for you and you shouldn't do it.

What's wrong with grilled chicken, tuna, greens, brown rice, and fruit. I bet you will lose just as much weight and not gain it back.

I never understood how you can eat bacon and cheese all day and lose weight.

[FastShark85]

WhatAboutBob:

I did ask a good doctor. He's a board-certified gasterenterologist (and also my brother). He supports the diet completely.

Also, it's not a diet where people "eat bacon and cheese all day and lose weight". It's a way of eating that minimizes carbohydrate intake. Nothing is wrong with grilled chicken, tuna, greens, brown rice and fruit. You just need to limit the brown rice and fruit. Both have lots of carbs, and they're both allowed in moderation once the weight loss is finished or close to being finished.

Atkins requires regular exercise (as well as vitamin supplements for those on the less-than-20-carbs-per day portion of the diet).

There are a good number of people who are being successful on Atkins. It's just "better" news (i.e. more interesting) when there are reports of people living on bacon and cheese.

[Plan9Senior]

Balanced diet > all

[Sun Tzu]

I suggest any that choose to do the Atkins approach, to do it and more power to you. Nutritional science will need the results good or bad to truly know what long term effects are. I salute you for volunteering.

[FastShark85]

Sun Tzu:

Low carb'ing has been around for a looonnnng time. It's what people did by default before we had grocery stores filled with aisles and aisles of crap and junk food.

[zenmaster10665]

I am interested to know, as LC's effect seems to be proportional to total weight...if there is anyone out there who only has had about 20 lbs to lose and was able to do so through atkins...if so, how many carbs (grams) were they taking in? I have tried it on and off (I am on it now) and have seen some weight loss, however, I am interested in any anecdotal evidence from people who are in the 30-60g carbs/day range.

[FastShark85]

zen:

The Atkins book indicates that most people will be able to eat between 60-90g of carbs per day without changing weight. Each person will have his/her own equilibrium.

In the 30-60g range, you'll still lose weight, just not as quickly. The 20g per day thing with Atkins is not permanent....it's only required during the first 2 weeks. After that people can start adding 5g/day each week (25g/day for week 3, 30g/day for week 4, etc.). It allows you to slow your weight loss down and find out where your equilibrium is. Once you find it, if you still have weight to lose, you dial it back 5g-10g/day until you hit your goal.

I'm guessing mine is in the 90-100g range, but it'll probably drop as I get older.

[JohnnyRock]

I have been doing LC for a while now. I find it pretty easy to stick to--although I allow myself a cheat day to replenish glycogen stores--especially with all the low-carb products available today.

I do tend to eat healthier, lower fat foods than a traditional Atkins [yes, I realize that Atkins is more flexible folowing the induction phase] and keep my fiber intake fairly high.

In my opinion the key to the whole low-carb diet is cutting out sugar and ESPECIALLY high fructose corn syrup.

[saltfish]

Quote:
Ask any good doctor. It is totally bad for you and you shouldn't do it.

What's wrong with grilled chicken, tuna, greens, brown rice, and fruit. I bet you will lose just as much weight and not gain it back.

I never understood how you can eat bacon and cheese all day and lose weight.

---
See now this is funny, I can eat grilled chicken, tuna, greens, whole grain brown rice and non-glycemic fruit on the atkins diet. All of which I can eat as much as I want (excluding the brown rice, only good for a cup or so).



-SF

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by FastShark85
Sun Tzu:

Low carb'ing has been around for a looonnnng time. It's what people did by default before we had grocery stores filled with aisles and aisles of crap and junk food.

How long? (Not refering to tribes that predominanty ate more meat because of habitat) but a structured diet such as Atkins? It obviously hasnt been around long enough with solid data to stop the medical science community from debating. If privacy isnt a total issue, info from those doing would be helping provide that data here

http://www.atkinsdietalert.org/registry.html

if no complications have arose that valuable data.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by saltfish
Quote:
Ask any good doctor. It is totally bad for you and you shouldn't do it.

What's wrong with grilled chicken, tuna, greens, brown rice, and fruit. I bet you will lose just as much weight and not gain it back.

I never understood how you can eat bacon and cheese all day and lose weight.

---
See now this is funny, I can eat grilled chicken, tuna, greens, whole grain brown rice and non-glycemic fruit on the atkins diet. All of which I can eat as much as I want (excluding the brown rice, only good for a cup or so).



-SF

The only argument you may get from some when referencing someone that follows a modified zone apporach is the fruit. THats because its simple carbs vs complex. Not taking anything away form the antioxidant properties found in fruit, but the same can be found in green veggies. When speaking in terms of lowering the fat percentage; fruit or any SIMPLE carbs could be counter productive.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by JohnnyRock
I have been doing LC for a while now. I find it pretty easy to stick to--although I allow myself a cheat day to replenish glycogen stores--especially with all the low-carb products available today.

I do tend to eat healthier, lower fat foods than a traditional Atkins [yes, I realize that Atkins is more flexible folowing the induction phase] and keep my fiber intake fairly high.

In my opinion the key to the whole low-carb diet is cutting out sugar and ESPECIALLY high fructose corn syrup.

Have you ever monitored or gauged your insulin level on that cheat day?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by FastShark85
zen:

The Atkins book indicates that most people will be able to eat between 60-90g of carbs per day without changing weight. Each person will have his/her own equilibrium.

In the 30-60g range, you'll still lose weight, just not as quickly. The 20g per day thing with Atkins is not permanent....it's only required during the first 2 weeks. After that people can start adding 5g/day each week (25g/day for week 3, 30g/day for week 4, etc.). It allows you to slow your weight loss down and find out where your equilibrium is. Once you find it, if you still have weight to lose, you dial it back 5g-10g/day until you hit your goal.

I'm guessing mine is in the 90-100g range, but it'll probably drop as I get older.

a scale without gauging the fat percentage and lean mass measurements isnt telling the whole story. $9 calipers and $2 cloth tape measure are valuable tools and may be telling a whole different story that could turn backfire.

[FastShark85]

Well, if everyone wants to debate the topic, try doing so in a forum that has people a lot more experienced than I am.

Atkins Diet Bulletin Board

You'll probably never agree with anyone there, but at least you'll hear from people who have been doing it longer, have been engaged in the testing you recommend, and are equally adept at posting links to articles on Atkins. By the way, that link to the Atkins Diet Alert sight is sponsored by PETA.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by FastShark85
Well, if everyone wants to debate the topic, try doing so in a forum that has people a lot more experienced than I am.

Atkins Diet Bulletin Board

You'll probably never agree with anyone there, but at least you'll hear from people who have been doing it longer, have been engaged in the testing you recommend, and are equally adept at posting links to articles on Atkins. By the way, that link to the Atkins Diet Alert sight is sponsored by PETA.

Sorry about the PETA plug, no doubt theres going to be some biased going on there. A simple stroll through google Ive found it to be about 50-50 pro/against. Im saying that even though humans may have eaten similiar in the distant past in certain parts of the world we have it nice with grocery stores. I hope people that have been on it a while are OK as I dont wish bad health on anyone. Im saying that well know the results as numbers and data come in over the next 2 decades a more founded base, and Im sure the 50/50 thats out there in clinical data results now will have gone in either direction. Part of me says why when there's different paths thats arent questionable, just as effective, and probably more enjoyable. The other half is glad people are volunteering becasue without them we'd never know. I see your point, Ive probably beat this down and titer on preaching which I dont want to do. I'll create another thread with an approach I've found to be effective with every person Ive worked with, even if theres common disagreement; it may give some different things to think about. ---Thanks for the input

[Sun Tzu]

mistake

[danielboy]

Originally posted by WhatAboutBob
Ask any good doctor. It is totally bad for you and you shouldn't do it.

I know three doctors on it!

[FastShark85]

Apparently folks aren't reading the posts before them when they post. I already said my brother (who's an MD) told me he approves of Atkins.

danielboy: glad to hear it!

[ratbastid]

Originally posted by Plan9
Balanced diet > all

Problem is, the traditionally understood "balance" was politically motivated, driven by farmers and big processed food concerns. It has very little to do with health.

For 14 days I've balanced my diet much more strongly toward protein and fat than carbs. That's right, my 2-week Atkins induction ended yesterday, and I lost 12.4 pounds. All while eating plenty of salad and other vegetables.

[Hedgehog]

Atkins challenged traditional notions of nutrition with his diet. It's natural that doctors who had the 'food pyramid' drilled into their heads in medical school will resist the idea.

The thing is, if you've had even one semester of Biochem, you can see how the Atkins diet works. Simple sugars and simple starches break down into glycogen with almost zero energy input from the body. Protein and fats require a significant amount of energy from the body to be broken down into glycogen. Therefore, you can eat more raw calories of protein and fat and still lose weight.

Remember how everyone says that you burn more calories eating celery than you get from the celery? Similar principle.

[Sun Tzu]

Originally posted by Hedgehog
Atkins challenged traditional notions of nutrition with his diet. It's natural that doctors who had the 'food pyramid' drilled into their heads in medical school will resist the idea.

The thing is, if you've had even one semester of Biochem, you can see how the Atkins diet works. Simple sugars and simple starches break down into glycogen with almost zero energy input from the body. Protein and fats require a significant amount of energy from the body to be broken down into glycogen. Therefore, you can eat more raw calories of protein and fat and still lose weight.

Remember how everyone says that you burn more calories eating celery than you get from the celery? Similar principle.

A couple of questions:

Your statement about simple sugars and starches apply to someone that isnt working out and depleting glycogen at accelerated rates, but is most definately factual. But its only telling one aspect of the spectrum. Where does insulin the anabolic hormone in the body (even more than test) factor into what your referencing? WHy are you only mentioning simples? While the final breakdown is comparable the breakdown is different when targeting complex carbs; entirely different. What about the elevated cortisol level that will occur upon ketosis? There enough free radical production going on from just living in todays times why help it?

WHy only focus on weight? If a person starts dropping pounds (via looking at their scale to gauge progress) but are doing so in a catabolic state do you think that will last? Do you think living with ketosis with the body being in a catabolic state (it takes an enormous amount of dietary finese to be ketonic and anabolic) is a good thing? Why? A caliper and tape measure for lean mass measurements fills in the gaps, and in a majority of cases tell a much different and suprising picture.

WHat do you think the human brain's main source of nutrients and fuel comes from?

[Hedgehog]

Ah...you are going deeper than I intended into Biochem.

I do know that Atkins' is very similar to the diets recommended to diabetics. It stabilizes insulin levels and prevents the high-lows in blood sugar levels caused by the pancreas dumping huge amounts of insulin into the bloodstream right after meals in response to the spike in blood sugar. This benefits me personally, because I get migraines when my blood sugar falls too low, and that prevents me from successfully dieting on high-carb, low-fat diets.

Regarding the rest of your question, I'm afraid I can't answer reliably, since my Biochem is 15 years behind me. I'm sure someone at the Atkins Institute message boards can help, though.

[rockzilla]

From what I remember, the brain runs on glucose. If there's no glucose readily available, the body'll start tearing up muscle tissue to get amino acids to convert to glucose. I'm not a dietician, nor am I a biochemist, so I may be wrong.

[Mael]

Originally posted by rockzilla
From what I remember, the brain runs on glucose. If there's no glucose readily available, the body'll start tearing up muscle tissue to get amino acids to convert to glucose. I'm not a dietician, nor am I a biochemist, so I may be wrong.

actually, the brain also runs on ketone bodies, which are what you get from fat breakdown. it's just not as efficient and aren't used quite as well as glucose. so for someone on atkins, to feel a little mentally sluggish wouldn't be suprising. also, since so much protein is being eaten, there's plenty in the blood to be used to convert to glucose, so the breakdown of muscle isn't likely.

[thegreek]

my aunt lives by the atkins diet, she says that it makes her mood better during the day

maybe its phsycological, but i may try it, sounds great!

[Liquor Dealer]

I'm not going to throw in any three dollar words or numbers other than these - I've been on Adkins for almost sixty days - I've lost 35 pounds and gone down 4 pant sizes. Works for me!

[Kaos]

A friend of mine just started this diet, and he says he lost 9 pounds in a week. He has totally cut out carbs (to the best of his knowledge)

Is this healthy? Losing 9 pounds in a week? I thought there was 2 types of carbs, good ones (complex carbs) and the bad ones. Totally cutting out carbs is supposed to be really bad for you. Or am I wrong about this?

[Peetster]

I'm also down 35 pounds, and recent bloodwork confirms I'm healthier than I've been in a long time. I've had a complete blood panel done once a year for the past 21 years (those anal retentive flight physicians), so there is some trend data available. I look and feel healthy. Why argue with results?

[Mael]

Originally posted by Kaos
A friend of mine just started this diet, and he says he lost 9 pounds in a week. He has totally cut out carbs (to the best of his knowledge)

Is this healthy? Losing 9 pounds in a week? I thought there was 2 types of carbs, good ones (complex carbs) and the bad ones. Totally cutting out carbs is supposed to be really bad for you. Or am I wrong about this?

it depends on who you ask. so far research is showing it not to be harmful, and people do seem to be losing weight on it. but at the same time, you're cutting out your primary energy system, so, at least until you've mentally and physically adjusted, you might feel like crap.

[Kaos]

Originally posted by Mael
it depends on who you ask. so far research is showing it not to be harmful, and people do seem to be losing weight on it. but at the same time, you're cutting out your primary energy system, so, at least until you've mentally and physically adjusted, you might feel like crap.

Sounds like you have to suppliment this diet with exercise and weightlifting, or along with the weight you lose, you are going to lose muscle mass.

Can anyone point me towards a resource that tells you which Carbs are good and which are bad? I have been looking at the nutrition charts on everything today and it seems like even a bowl of Special K cereal seems to be high in carbs.

[Mael]

Originally posted by Kaos
[BCan anyone point me towards a resource that tells you which Carbs are good and which are bad? I have been looking at the nutrition charts on everything today and it seems like even a bowl of Special K cereal seems to be high in carbs. [/B]

i don't know of any resources off hand, but you can use this general rule: processed carbs - bad. natural carbs - good.

you need a mix of complex carbs and simple sugers, the simple sugers break down really quick and give short term energy, while the complex break down slower and give you longer term energy.

[Plan9Senior]

Originally posted by Kaos
Sounds like you have to suppliment this diet with exercise and weightlifting, or along with the weight you lose, you are going to lose muscle mass.

Can anyone point me towards a resource that tells you which Carbs are good and which are bad? I have been looking at the nutrition charts on everything today and it seems like even a bowl of Special K cereal seems to be high in carbs.

Well, about 99% of cereals are total crap regardless if they advertise as "healthy" or whatever they claim. They are usually loaded with simple sugars which means a bunch of bad carbs. Stick to oatmeal or cream of wheat instead of box cereals.

Carbs are divided into several categories. Here is a good site that I googled that can maybe help you understand the difference in the types of carbs: http://www.bodybuildingpro.com/carbdiet.html

Hope that helps.

[Kaos]

Very helpful Mael and Plan9. Thanks!