Suzz04

Ok, I haven't posted in forever other than one a few minutes ago.

I have a recently turned 15 year old daughter. Over Thanksgiving, we found out she's pregnant. I'm not thrilled, happy, etc. I'm highly pissed off, angry, hatred and depressed.

I'm at the point now that it's.... "it's done, it can't be changed, deal with it" state I guess. But I seriously would like to strangle the two for breaking my trust. Yes, she was on the pill, supposedly using condoms. I got the "I guess the condom broke or had a hole"... either he's hung like a horse or someone put the hole there is my line of thinking. (yes, sarcasm)

Before anyone goes on the "why did you let her date at that age", I remember when I was that age and when mommy and daddy said no, I did it anyway. So I felt better at knowing she was dating that it going on behind my back, clueless. I think getting hit with I'm pregnant and no clue dating would have caused me to have another nervous breakdown.

I'm ready to throw in the towel so to speak and give up. I'm a single parent, her father is no where in the scene except when he's not needed. My s/o is trying his hardest to keep me "sane", making sure I take my medicine, also keeping everything stocked in the kitchen to make sure she's eating good. I'll admit he's not happy about it either but like me, what's done is done.

The thing that scares me right now is, she's 15. Should I watch carefully for a miscarriage to happen? Worry about not going to full term cause she is small, like I was but I was 18, and I didn't carry full term.

Oh and I guess I should add that one of her friends, decide to put her up on the list for that 16 & Pregnant show for the next season. Daughter thinks it's a big laugh and I think that I could blow up and be a projectile at the next moving thing. I seriously think that show is giving the idea of that it's ok to be that age and get pregnant.

I guess my post will be is there someone out there that has related experiences with this and how in the hell did you/they cope?

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Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

Cynthetiq

As far as 16 & Pregnant, I have friends that work on that show. I know they don't try to glorify it in any way. They show that it is okay that it's not the end of the world, but also they show that it isn't easy. They show that it is hard work to continue to get an education, to find work, and to deal with the baby daddy.

I'm going to have to ask have you actually watched the show before you made judgment on the idea that they believe or are trying to promote it is "ok to be that age and get pregnant."

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Cimarron29414

Cyn-

You are missing the point. The show makes the participants famous, famous for being irresponsible. Teenagers place a value on "fame." That is why it's "cool" to get knocked up because, "Hey, I'll be able to get on that show and make some serious cash."

As to the OP, I have no experience in this regard. All I can say is, don't take let anyone take this mistake out on the baby.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Cynthetiq

Cim, I don't think I'm missing the point. Media rewards assholes because the community rewards them. The girls that have come out of the show haven't become movie stars, cable stars, or even d-list stars. They aren't doing sponsorships, advertising, guest appearances etc.

By your statement than anyone who is on the news or documentary makes them famous. It does not. It just means they were on TV.

---------- Post added at 01:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:26 PM ----------

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

jewels

I used to think about this constantly as I have raised three daughters. My youngest is now 17.

If it had happened, I would have informed them of their choices. If she's glorified pregnancy due to that show (which is funny because my daughter watches it out of curiosity and thinks they're all "losers") then she needs to understand exactly what having that child will do to her life, his life, the baby's life and your life. It sounds as though she's clueless and it is your responsibility to clue her in.

Unpopular as it may be around these parts, she does have choices.

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Cimarron29414

Cyn -

...and in their circle of friends they will become the most famous person they know. Like it or not, it places poor choices on pedestal - even if that is not the intent of the producers of the show. This is not a slam on your friends or their career choices. The story needs told, it just doesn't need told on MTV with Jersey Shore coming up next. It needs to be told on TLC or Discovery.

Suzz04 - would she consider adoption?

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

ZombieSquirrel

I have seen the show. GUILTY PLEASURE. However, I don't think it's done as well as the True Life shows that MTV does. As a parent Suzz, I would try to prevent your child from being on the show. Whether the show itself does or does not glorify Teen Pregnancies, the media will inflate things. I have seen a few of the girls on the cover of tabloid magazines.

I was wondering what has been discussed. Is she going to keep the baby? Is she going to consider adoption? Do you think she needs to raise the child as part of the consequence of her choices? How are the baby daddy's parents handling the situation?

I would look for an OB/GYN that has experience with high risk pregnancies.

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Cynthetiq

ZS, I agree that True Life is a much better experience. That is the news and docs group where as 16 and Pregnant or Teen Mom was done by the short form group series and specials. Many of the same people work on the show, but the direction it comes from is very different. /end mtv threadjack

As far as the choices that Jewels puts together, I think that's what is important to show. It's important to highlight the one always has choices and I would say underline that making no choice is also a choice.

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Shadowex3

The greatest risks are not going to be to her body, not directly. What's "best" for your daughter is not something I'm going to get into, but I will remind you that the greatest threats to a pregnant teenager are their own family: directly, by driving them away, or by forcing them one way or another into a bad situation because they "deserve" it.

Keep your head, keep your family, and to protect all of you make sure she really does have an honest choice between all her options of what to do with her body.

__________________

Suzz04

In answer to the question of have I actually seen the show, yes I did watch some of it. Sadly the part I got to see was the girl at school with her friends in the bathroom giggling about how mom took it and they all seemed excited.

I have to agree that this regardless of becoming a actress/etc later doesn't come from being on the show, but it puts her up on the famous list at school for this.

Everyone in regards to her being pregnant are being supportive. Yes, there have been lectures, appointments scheduled, and including when you need to talk you know where to find any of us. That includes myself, my parents, her father, and several others.

She realizes that we're not "happy" with the situation and that she does have options on what we will do once birth has happened. I'm along the feeling of she needs to at least attempt to do her best at taking care of the baby on (not completely) her own. Who am I to say that daddy will stick around and not just disappear? If it becomes too much for her mentally, given her age, I will step in and adoption will most likely be our next step.

Finishing school is required. I already told her that I want her to finish high school. It's going to all be hard. School as well as going through the changes til birth and including afterward. I will say that she is a smart girl, however she's very stubborn and hard headed. No matter what anyone tells her, even if she asked the question to start, it's "I already know this" or the eye roll and "I know".

So far, daddy is around. Not that I really want him being around, apparently they're fighting because of he doesn't like what people say and can't keep his mouth shut. Neither can she. I've tried to explain to both that the more that they "mouth off" to these people trying to control what they say, they're just throwing fuel to the fire. That has went absolutely no where other than a fire building higher from their own actions.

In regards to his family, I don't know them. I know the mother had her first at 15 so I don't know if she's on the "I had one at 15 done fine so what?" or is in the feeling I am "I don't like this but it's done"

I admit I have problems with the whole idea. I'm doing my best in controlling everything I say or do. However, being as children are parents best button pushers, she's been taking a sledge hammer to said buttons. Last night was a battle over, she wanted to go visit with daddy, I said ok but you're coming back by this time. Then it was "No I'm not, I'm spending the night". Then the cliche of "And the fight started...." No she did not spend the night and daddy was pissed because he thinks that I said for them to break up.

Getting her to talk has been nearly impossible. It comes down to eye rolling, snapping, and walking off with "I don't want to talk about this anymore". From what I have gathered so far, previously before pregnancy happened, they had broken up because I didn't interact with him and that caused him to think I hated him and wanted them broke up. Gosh, makes me really wish that I had known that and went to make sure that there wasn't a getting back together. Yes, hind sight is 20/20.

Now, we're at the same step again of breaking up, cause I told him there would be restricted visits. I didn't have time to go into a long lengthy detail of what that meant since I was being bombarded with questions by several people.

Choices I hope have been made obvious, but given that she's prone to ignore everything I say, I'll be repeating them and getting the "You've already told me this" answer with attitude.

And I thank everyone for their input, whether or not they have been in the situation. Everyone that I try to talk to gives me this "You don't have to like it but you're gonna have to like it regardless" talk, or the "You're gonna have to bond with her even harder now" which I can't even get her to talk to me without her turning every thing I say into something else. So, now I have no way to say what I feel and think. I even had to tell my mother she was getting out of control due to the "Get down on your knees and pray to the lord with me" over the phone. I'm not highly religious and feel I'm getting it shoved down my throat by someone who just recently (she's nearing 60 if that helps) started spouting pray to the lord and other stuff. I'm not trying to offend anyone on their religion. I just find it odd she's suddenly after 50 years went from we don't talk religion to that's all I hear.

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Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

ZombieSquirrel

You have a good head on your shoulders and you're really putting her first in all of this. Even if she can't see that right now. I think that the best thing we can do is be here for you when you need to vent.

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Cimarron29414

Suzz04,

I'm just going to say it: Your daughter is not equipped to raise a child successfully. She lacks the maturity, the income, the patience. If she doesn't adopt this child out AT BIRTH, you are going to raise it. Period. That's the only decision you need to make: "Am I willing to raise this child, or not?" You do have a say-so.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Suzz04

no, not at this time she doesn't have the maturity or patience. income is a definite no, but i really want her to finish high school regardless on that part. the daddy will be old enough to take a job to do his part of support.

if she isn't capable of it once the birth happens, then yes, i am willing to raise the child. however, that remains to be seen if she is willing to continue her education. if she's not willing to continue then i have family members who are childless and would love the option to adopt if it was presented. that has been discussed but NOT around the daughter. i don't want her thinking that she has a free out at the end because she decides that it's just too hard and wants to blow the baby off onto someone else then come back later.

if i do raise the child, and she's unwilling to do her part for education and take care of the baby when she's not in school, then adoption to me will come into play.

i'm not telling her the option to adopt straight after birth because i don't want her to think this is a "get out of jail" free card (using the monopoly game card here heh). it remains to be seen if she will gain some maturity and patience within the next few months.

even at my age, when i gave birth, i had developed a bit in that department and still felt unprepared to handle a baby. she was premature but i learned as i went along these years. i still feel that same way when i was trying to have another child a while back. now, i feel if i continue to try that people will come to the thought that "oh she's jealous of the daughter because she's having one before she got to have her second child".

her biggest issue seems to be at the moment she believes daddy's family is going to be oh so helpful. before i divorced, my ex's family spent about 3 days total taking care of her in the 2 years after birth to give me a break to sleep some. i don't know that the daddy's family will actually help, but i'm not counting it ahead of time that it will happen.

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

bagatelle

I haven't experienced anything like this, not in family or with friends. I'm glad I currently have sons in teenage, not daughters, but I'm fearing for my five year old daughter already... feels like I need to start talking with her soon enough!

You seem to be wanting to help them take the responsiblity. It would be hard for me to let 15 year old son or daughter make their decision alone. They don't know yet what's ahead of them in life. I'm sure I would try to find a way to raise the baby together with them and the other family - even though the young parents wouldn't stay together later - and make sure the teens also get education and job and start supporting themselves soon enough.

I would also need to realize it's not my baby. My mother-in-law clearly didn't realize that her son is grown up, when he became dad at age of 26! But since they both are so young, your "interfering" will be needed, imo.

It is possibly to study and have a child, but they would have to realize their own resposibility. I wish your family luck in all this.

LaLa1

That's not only not fair but not "always" true.

I was pregnant at 15, and my first child was born 33 days after my 16th birthday.

No, I was not mature enough to have a child at that age. And I'm not one to cheer on teenagers to get knocked up, but... I did just fine. I struggled hard. I was scared to death, but I had a loving supportive "single mother" to help me. I grew up really really fast. There is something that happens to you maturity wise when you hold a newborn baby in your arms and you know that you created that life and you are responsible for that life.

I wont say it was easy because it wasn't. I did not finish high school, but I did go back to school when she was old enough to go to preschool. I got my GED and then a few years later after having a second daughter, went to college and got my Accounting degree. I worked several part time jobs during those years to make ends meet without having to go on state assistance. And I moved out with my first daughter when I was eighteen. She is now almost 28 and is a thriving productive member of society. She graduated high school and has a great job that she loves. Neither of my girls went on to have babies at a young age, they are both in their 20's and I'm still not a grandma (yay!)

Raising a child when being only a child myself was hard. I had a bit of time where I felt like I had been cheated out of my youth, but that didn't last long. I made the decision to have the baby and I knew I had to get my shit together quick.

Suzz, you wont know until the time comes how she'll respond to the child. Although, I'm pretty sure you know what type of person your daughter is and whether or not she'll feel a connection to her baby will be the biggest deciding factor on how things progress from there. There will probably be times where she goes and goofs off instead of being home doing what she's supposed to be doing because, yes we are not mature enough at that age to handle that type of responsibility. But I KNOW that some of us come around a lot earlier than others.

As for how to cope, I wish my mother was still here so I could ask her for advice for you but she's not. I remember her being angry and all the emotions you expressed. And I remember her resigning to the fact of what was to come and then showing me her excitement. I remember feeling horribly ashamed and masking it with the laughs and "I don't care attitude" and I remember feeling so much better and at ease when she came to me to show me things she had picked out of the Sears catalog to buy for my still unborn child. The feeling of her accepting me in that moment did more for my self esteem and I can do this attitude than anything else.

Just try to support her as much as you can, and remember if you're a strong mother then you've already taught her how to be one as well.

I hope this helps some.

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Suzz04

thank you lala1... that did help alot... i just had a talk with my daughter, just trying to talk.

evidently she must like goofing up, because she sent the daddy a text much earlier prior to the talk and it went basically like this.

I will not be allowed around the baby once it's born. Because I "supposedly" said that he can't see the baby. I never said that he couldn't. I said that MY child could not spend the night with him. I never said that they couldn't see each other. They came up with that on their own. I said it was going to be restricted on them. My trust was broken and thus must be earned back.

Now, I have this "wonderful" daddy, threatening that once the baby is born, he'll be 18 and my daughter 15, she will live with him (apparently the only way they can take care of the baby together is to live together) and if I don't let them do this he will take it to court and take the baby away from her. Plus, if I let her "live" with him, I will still not be allowed to see the baby and the only way my child will see me is if and when she wants without the baby.

Well, my temper has not got the best of me yet, but I really am now despising this boy. I don't know what the courts do in Virginia on cases like this, but I'm pretty sure that unless I give approval for marriage then he's going to be going to court over trying to live with a minor. I already said once to her that marriage was out of the question til she was 18 because she needed to grow up more. My giving that approval makes it seem as if *I* really do approve of all this when I don't.

He's basing all the temper I've had the last couple of months (since September) that I've had and alot of things that have went on til November on what he's seen of my yelling, apparent not allowing her to do more with him (i think they did too much), and some things during a time that I was completely off medication in order to have a second child. I went back on my medicine at the end of October and have been faithfully taking it since.

If this is what is being thrown at me that I will not see my daughter or grandchild, then I have to say that I will highly be seeing what options that I will have towards him. Now I know that his way of thinking is going to be one of that he isn't going to grow up and she's going to just follow along with what ever he says because she grew up with out a dad and doesn't want the same for hers.

I've had guilt trips thrown at me today. One, because I've said I would send her to her father in the past to let him take care of her (he stayed in Louisiana and New York to escape having to keep her except summers) to at least have a break from her. Every parent needs a break at some point. I got thrown in my face that I never wanted her at any point in her life because of that.

I did have points of time where I snapped prior to the diagnosis that I have what was wrong with me that I said things I don't remember saying because I was "seeing red" from finally breaking with all the stress of trying to single parent and work. I'm admitting that it has not been a perfect life and has had alot of stress in the years.

But this thing the boy is pulling has put him in a rather bad situation, at least with me

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

The_Jazz

Marriage Requirements

Well, she can't marry him without your (or her father's) say-so unless she emancipates herself. Which would be tricky with a baby, no means of support and still having to go to school (hopefully).

That said, remember that he's a dumb kid. She's a dumb kid. They're doing dumb things. But were you much smarter at that age? It'll be tough, but try to stay on the high road. You've done well so far.

If I were you, I'd make it a point to reach out to his folks to see what they have to say. You're going to share this grandchild, and if nothing else, it would be good to get on the same page about that.

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Shadowex3

Am I the only person on TFP really concerned by this statement?

It sounds like you're admitting to us that you're not only forcing a 15 year old child to carry a baby to term and also keeping her in the dark about her options as some kind of disciplinary measure, which is... pretty concerning to say the least. I've seen too many girls forced into exactly the situation you're creating out of desperation and decide to just leave, or worse.

That said, even though I know what you really wanted was unconditional affirmation and sympathy, I really think you need to think about this from her perspective before everyone's behavior gets even more extreme.
It's hard sometimes given that your brain's literally wired differently now but it's still possible if you're willing to make an effort and consider the consequences of your actions.

So look at all of this from the point of view of someone with pretty much no control at all over her life right now:

You say that you're losing it because she refuses to listen to you. Have you considered what would happen if she ever found out that you withheld her options from her? All because you thought she'd think of it as a "get out of jail free" card? I'm sure that sounds reasonable and mature to you, and I can honestly see the logic you used to come to that conclusion and it IS internally consistent, but when you hear that said from the ouside that sounds vindictive and like you don't care about what's best for her as long as she "learns a lesson".

Since pregnancy tends to carry with it a stigma that someone deserves to be punished for getting pregnant lets look at that logic from another point of view: If she started smoking when she was this age instead of getting pregnant and then she was diagnosed with cancer at age 17 would you withhold her options from her and force things on her because you don't want her to think something is a "get out of jail free" card? No, you wouldn't. The very idea is practically unimaginable. A pregnancy is not really any less life threatening for a desperate 15 year old.

I know it's hard, and yes I know she's 15 and not remotely mature enough to make these decisions on her own, but the key word here is "on her own". As long as we're dealing with consequences of actions, have you seriously considered yours? Your lies by omission, or worse if you've made any more direct lies, may lead to her trying to induce a miscarriage because she didn't know she had the option of an instant adoption. Do you really think she won't get that desperate? Especially if she winds up thinking you're lying to her and manipulating her just so she gets what you think she deserves?

Is an adult going to find a lot of this logical or consistent? Probably not, especially not if they're emotionally involved. But from her point of view, it is, and as much trouble as it's likely to bring me for admitting it some of her behavior makes perfect sense from mine as well. But it's at least along the same kinds of logic a teenager would be using. She's not going to think about get out of jail free cards, or maturity, or the future. She's 15. She's going to see the closest person to her in the world, the one person that she was supposed to be able to trust with her life without question, betraying her out of spite just to teach her a lesson.

Right now she needs a support network, strong emotional connections that will help her get through the worst of this without running off or trying to kill herself, and above all she needs to know she can (literally) trust you with her life. And right now from her point of view you're doing a pretty good job of removing all three.

Get some outside help, and not just people who'll agree with you. You're going to need some brakes now and then when things get really stressful so you don't wind up doing something else extreme, like this, just because nobody thought it was unreasonable. For example other than punishing her (its basically a grounding/curfew) what purpose does not letting her spend the night with him serve? She's already pregnant, Virginia if I recall is a parental consent state so it's not like they can sneak off to a Clinic on their own, what is going to happen other than her spending a night crying on his shoulder and dealing with hormones and stress?

Emotions are running strong for all three of you. He's desperately trying to fit whatever his internal idea of a man and father is, and you two are flat out losing it. You need to ask yourself "is there a legitimate reason for doing X or is it just because I think it will 'teach her a lesson' and she deserves that."

__________________

Suzz04

I'm not asking everyone to agree with me. I asked for their experiences.

To quote myself to you , Shadowex3, I did say
If it becomes too much for her mentally, given her age, I will step in and adoption will most likely be our next step.

She does know the option of adoption. But I'm not giving her that option unless she has at least tried. How can she know that she's going to be able to do it if she doesn't even try?

Being pregnant is a responsibility. Not a thing that can be solved by just handing the problem over to someone else to deal with. That's what it sounds to me. Let someone else deal with a problem that a 15 year old has.

What if she has another child and she's over 18? Do we give her those same options to give up this child like the first? Let her refuse to take responsibility for her actions?

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

spindles

I went to my 20 year school reunion a couple of years ago and the girl who was pregnant in high school now looks back with fond memories. Her boy is in his twenties and also has just had a baby, so she is 40(ish) and a grandma.

She said that she would not change a thing!

Hopefully, once you get past being angry, you can be the supportive mother that you would like to be. I'd echo having discussions with the father and his family. This is a huge turning point in your daughter's life. She will do a better job of it if she is backed up by as many rational people as she can get her hands on. Just remember that she will make decisions that you won't agree with - that is natural and you might find it hard, but your daughter really needs as much positive help from you as possible.

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Shadowex3

No Suzz allow me to quote myself to YOU:
I wasn't sure at first so I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you've now made it very clear that what you care about right now is forcing her into a situation that you think will "teach her a lesson". You're not talking about any of this in terms of what's best for her, you're talking about using this pregnancy to punish her, everything you say revolves around the idea that she needs to "learn a lesson" and that you're going to lie to her and force her into whatever situation you think will do that.

They are HER options to choose from, not yours to give or take in order to ensure that she suffers enough to satisfy you. It's 2010, not 1910, she doesn't "deserve" any kind of punishment because she was on birth control and using condoms and something still went wrong. The line of reasoning you're using isn't logical, it's emotional. And while that's understandable given how huge this is, it's not going to help either of you as you've already seen based on what you've told us.

Think about it in pretty much any other terms and it gets really clear just how crazy this line of reasoning is:

What if she smoked and developed cancer? Would you let her know all her treatment options or force her down the path with the lowest survival rate and the most pain and suffering to teach her a lesson? Would you consider the other choices "letting her refuse to take responsibility for her actions"?

If she were in a car accident and the doctors had many options would you force her to have a painful amputation and take a poor prosthesis just because anything else, from a better functioning prosthesis to saving her limb, would be "letting her refuse to take responsibility for her actions"?


I think you really need to step back and ask yourself why everything you say and do comes back to punishment rather than helping your daughter have a better future. This is an incredible emotional strain, and having grown up in Virginia I don't need to imagine the kind of cultural shock it is as well, but I really wasn't kidding when I said that it's 2010 and not 1910. A pregnancy is not something you use to discipline someone.

If you really want to try and help her have a chance at a real future, you can start by changing the attitude you're taking here from "How can I teach her a lesson she'll never forget" to more or less anything else and working with her with honesty. That way you don't have to deal with the irrecoverable fallout of her finding out on her own that you've been lying to her, and the odds are very much in favor that she will find out on her own. She's 15, not 5, she's going to talk to people, she's going to read things on her own.

She's pregnant Suzz, there isn't a thing in this world you can do that will punish or hurt her more than that already is, and if it isn't then there's really nothing you can do to her. You're dealing with someone who more than likely, whether she shows it or not, feels like she's got nothing left to lose. Ultimatums, lies, arbitrary punishments, and using the pregnancy itself as a weapon against her are not going to do anything productive.

The fact that she hasn't run off for a backalley abortion already shows you that she's taking (or trying to take) responsibility, stop trying to find ways to force her down a path you think will punish her enough, it's just working against what you say you both want. I grew up in Virginia, I know it's going to be hard to find any kind of support that goes further than "Punish the promiscuous" in that state, but it does exist and are people who can help all of you whatever choice she makes.

You can't have it both ways though. You can't keep trying to "teach her a lesson" AND help her have a better future.

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Suzz04

i haven't posted the last couple of days due to the fact of following shadow's advice of trying to make sure my daughter knew every option that she had. which included that she could do adoption after birth. which, btw, blew up in my face. that sent her fuming and hadn't spoke to me in over a day from that option. i'm going to refrain of what i'd really like to say about that piece of advice.

sometimes some options might be best left unsaid as that they would severely upset someone. apparently instead of listening to my own thoughts of not saying that one, i made a mistake and upset her even more.

however, i won't be posting for a bit due to new light of incidents that happened today. we are now talking and trying to support EACH other now. we had the shocking news of her father passing away today. it was very sudden and coping factor has been upped to extreme levels for both of us. her father and i may have not gotten along 100% but we always remained what was needed as parents and amiable to each other.

this has hit me rather harder than i thought that it would, i think it has to do with the future grandchild and this would be his and mine first. and now my daughter will be dwelling alot on that he won't be here to see his first.

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Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

LaLa1

Wow Suzz, sorry to hear that. She's going to need you to be strong, just love her and guide her and you'll both be alright.

*hugs*

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Never make someone a priority in your life when you are just an option in theirs - Author Unknown

Cynthetiq

Holy crap. I'm sorry to hear that Suzz, that sucks. I'm sorry for your loss.

I only want to say this once because of your loss, but it does underline how much your daughter needs to be as self reliant as she can and as quickly as she can because, god forbid something happens to you, she's not going to have anyone to fall back on.

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bagatelle

That's a lot to handle for both of you. Wishing you strength to carry on.

The_Jazz

I was recently reminded (by something work-related) of a poster that my mother hung in her kitchen for about 10 years. It said "90% of your message comes from tone of voice." It was there to remind my brother and I what the main source of our friction was - pissing each other off.

Suzz, you're blaming Shadow for enouraging you to make sure your daughter knows ALL her options. I realize that you're frustrated and lashing out at people, but the fault that this backfired on you lies only with you and your daughter. I'm not saying that to be mean but to hopefully get you to realize that you have to try harder to control the situation.

Look, you are in no way in an enviable situation, but this isn't the end of the world and it isn't the worst thing that ever happened to anyone. Neither your daughter's nor your life is ruined. Things are going to necessarily be different but that's not to say it's going to be bad.

I suggest that you sit down and write out your points for the next "big discussion" and stick to them. Be as emotionless as possible. Don't get angry, don't get frustrated and try to answer any questions as truthfully and calmly as possible. If you can, do this with both of them. You don't have to be happy about the situation but you do have a responsibility to not make it worse.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cimarron29414

Suzz,

The act of successfully fertilizing an egg does not make a boyfriend a grown-up. The act of successfully carrying a zygote to term does not make a daughter a grown-up. While they believe their mating success has somehow granted them magically fantastic decision and money-making skills, we adults know otherwise. You guys are not on level terms, do not let them convince you that you are. Remember, there is only one adult in this situation - you. The only hope they have of rising to this occasion is witnessing you rise to it.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."