noodle

You boys are making me want to try this. I'm totally burnt out and bored at the gym, my paid membership has been used three times this year. I'm sick of Snap Fitness.
But, I've got a bum shoulder and weak wrists, so pushups and pull ups are out.
I'm looking at the P90 to start, so I don't kill myself, but I'm unable to locate it outside of the normal purchasing areas... I'm willing to modify my diet, which is pretty damn good anyway, I've maintained my current weight for six months without the gym, but I need to tone back up. Stupid "hi helens". And time has become a factor... my gym workouts were up to 2 hours with travel, cardio, and either abs/arms/upper body or abs/legs/back on any given day. I'd rather be at home where I have no excuses. So my question is... is the P90 worth the $100?

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rahl

I just finished week 3, and I love it. I've lost 8 pounds and an inch off my waist. This system doesn't build big muscle, but definately burns alot of fat. I'm looking forward to the next 9 weeks!

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

Willravel

The muscle will show up slowly in the next 5 weeks. Just remember to have a post workout drink high in protein. i have 2% chocolate milk with a bit of whey protein powder and it works fine. It also tastes good, so it works well as a reward for finishing.

rahl

I hate chocolate protein drinks. I can only stomach strawberry. I've modified my diet to eat 5 300 calorie meals per day. I do cheat on the weekends a bit, alcohol and pizza mostly. Also regarding yoga x, I hate it and don't do it. I substitute either cardio x or plyometrics. My goal is to get down to around 175 and have a relatively defined chest, shoulders and arms. I don't have the diet to have a six pack, but a reasonably flat stomach will suffice.

__________________
"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

Willravel

No, no actual chocolate milk. Like the brown stuff you buy from the dairy section next to the regular milk. The delicious stuff. You don't even have to add protein powder. Michael Phelps drinks it between races. The International Journal of Sport Nutrition and Exercise Metabolism found that chocolate milk is superior to sports drinks.
Honestly? Bad idea. When I mentioned to me previous personal trainer (now friend) that I was doing P90X and wanted to skip the recovery week, she explained that the program was designed to work a particular way, a particularly efficient way. By changing the program, I would have been reducing its proven effectiveness. Having actually done it 3 times all the way through, I can tell you Yoga X is a better overall workout than Cardio X. While Plyo undoubtedly burns more calories, it's intended to do different things. Yoga is the one exercise in the program that's best for compound exercise, or exercise that uses different sets of muscle groups.

And for the record, about 80% of P90X is the diet.

rahl

Thanks Will, I may have to reconsider Yoga X. My diet isn't really THAT bad, just mainly weekend cocktails and bad drunk eating. The rest of the time I'm pretty good about it.

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"Your life is Yours alone...Rise up and live it"

AquaFox

i know two people who do the p90x thing and both have good things to say about it.

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...AquaFox...

snowy

So...we just got the DVDs from a friend. I'm looking forward to trying this out. It sounds like the diet we already eat is pretty in-line with what they recommend for the nutritional side of things--just more protein. Since obviously we're not getting the little booklet, is there someone out there willing to share some more information with me?

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Meier_Link

If you're following the plan laid out in the book, the 1st phase is low carb, basically like your south beach diet, they recommend a lot of calories in the diet guide, about 2,400 on the low end but if your goal is to lose weight I'd probably go a little less (maybe 1800 or so if you're keeping track). The second month is more of a balance between good carbs and protiens and the third month is high carb. Personally, I just stick with a balance of carbs and proteins, protein shakes, whole grains, lean meat, etc. It's worked out well for me so far (155 from 220) but I can't help but wonder if I'd be all ripped up by now if I followed it to the t.

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Willravel

I don't care for the meal list they laid out (what kind of sick person puts tomatoes in scrambled eggs?!), but the unit plan is really easy to stick to. During my first phase, I had 7 units of protein, 3 of dairy, 1 of fruit (this was difficult, I love fruit), 4 of vegetables, 1 of fats, 1 of carbs, and 3 snacks. It just meant a lot of shakes, fish, poultry, etc.

snowy

Yeah, see--we eat vegetarian around these parts, so we're subbing in other sources of lean protein.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willravel

Wheat gluten FTW.

Panopticon

I just started P90x on Wednesday evening with the prescribed Chest & Back DVD.

All I can say is...WOW! I've never worked that hard in my life! I was mostly only doing 5 reps on the pull up exercises and about 10-20 on most of the push-up exercises. I can't imagine ever being able to get up to 20 or 30 like they do in the video!

I was so dead by the end that I couldn't even keep up with the Ab Ripper X that they tell you to do. For most of that video, I just laid on the ground in a mess.

I can't wait to try out the plyometrics tomorrow!

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.:Panopticon:.

Willravel

You'll get there a lot faster than you might think. I struggled with yoga on the first week, but by week 4 it was simple. Best of luck and don't give up!

snowy

I like Tony, but I'm pretty sure teaching yoga isn't his strong suit. I ended up doing my own routines of the same poses after turning him off. That, and since it was my SO's first time attempting yoga, I had to spend a lot of time correcting his form.

However, it was really awesome to find something athletic that I'm better than my SO at!

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

kutulu

I'm in my final recovery week of my second time through P90x. The first time I did lean, the second time I did classic. When I finish this, I'll start right back up again. I'm 5-10, 200 lbs. After 6 months, I really haven't lost any weight but I've exchanged a substantial amount of body fat for lean muscle mass. I don't really follow the diet plan. What I have done is to try and eat mostly good foods.

I do all my workouts in the morning. I used to do the Abripper at night before dinner but now I do my best to do it immediately after the workout without stopping. I did that because before I would be so tired after the workout that I wouldn't be able to make it through ABX, now I'm in better shape and it is actually easier to continue than it is to do the ABX from a cold start in the afternoon.

On the Yoga, yes Tony talks too much but the thing is that this is set up for someone who has never done Yoga before. You have to make it simple for someone doing it for the first time.

One thing that bugs the shit out of me: Why do they wear shoes during the KenpoX? I think that is a terrible idea. Shoes grip the floor, when you are spinning and kicking, you want the ease of movement that comes from being barefoot. Do to any martial arts school, do any of them wear shoes?

Willravel

I don't wear shoes for any of the exercises. I can easily see myself rolling my ankle if I wear running or basketball shoes while doing plyo, and that's no good.

You know what bugs me? Tony shamelessly flirting with a married woman. I can understand him maybe flirting once, just to entertain the people at home, but he won't let up. By the end of the exercises, I kinda want to hit him. iirc, the worst is Shoulders and Arms.

kutulu

I would think that shoes are more likely to protect you against rolling an ankle than cause it.

The flirting with Dreya is odd. I read somewhere that he knows her and her husband really well so it may not be as bad as it looks.

The_Jazz

Shoes generally add lateral stability, although there are exceptions. Running shoes only add a marginal amount. Tennis and basketball shoes usually add a lot.

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"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Baraka_Guru

I'm pretty sure cross-trainers give you a lot of lateral support comparatively. That's what I use in the gym, and I do all kinds of crazy shit.

Speaking of which, when I first started with my PT, I had the same reaction I've read here so far, which tells me the program is effective (as much as a PT!).

I remember doing a hell of a lot of lunges of varying types. By the time I moved on to upper-body work, my legs felt like they were those of a robotic toddler.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

The problem is that wearing shoes prevents you from learning to move naturally and prevents your natural muscles and tendons from developing for example lateral stability on their own. It's like keeping the training wheels on your bicycle forever. After you've developed the stability and strength, there's no way shoes can compete with the real thing.

imho and in my experience, I'm not a doctor or trainer.

Baraka_Guru

First, they're shoes, not robotic/mech implements, meaning that you are only getting some support, not a complete replacement of the stability required for the movements.

Second, a major purpose (for me anyway) is the shoes provide protection against slipping and awkward positioning. Shoes provide a constant "flat surface" (meaning the sole).

Sure there are benefits to going barefoot, but either option has its pros and cons.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

The_Jazz

Will, you're not a toddler. Nor are you a pre-teen. Your muscles and tendons have learned to move with shoes. That's why you don't see competitive distance runners drop their shoes unless they learned to run barefoot.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Wes Mantooth

So this is the first time I've ever heard about p90x and I've been reading a little about it as I am tired of the same old same old routine I usually go through. But considering somebody is already in pretty good shape and not looking for anything more then maintaining are there any major benefits to this program that one couldn't get from a normal exercise routine and proper diet? It sounds as though its a program that's based around improving physical fitness rather then just trying to stay fit, although I guess being in better shape isn't a bad thing.

Anyway I guess I'm just curious.

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Willravel

You're suggesting my muscles and tendons can't relearn or adapt? I've adapted to barefoot running over the past 6-8 months pretty well. I don't want to get too off-topic, but I've never heard that muscles and tendons can't adapt to new movements. Are you sure about that?

---------- Post added at 03:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:33 PM ----------

It's a well rounded exercise routine that comes with a okay diet program. The exercises are all pretty good at doing what they're supposed to do, and the program is put together well in that it covers different muscles and different uses of muscles while keeping it fresh. The diet program isn't necessarily anything new either, but it does work well enough. Low carb in the beginning to burn extra fat, medium carb in the middle to start putting on a bit of bulk and a good regular diet during the third phase.

I think the reason its so popular is that it's all in one package. You could go to a gym and get a good trainer and maybe buy a book on nutrition, but this is everything in one. Not only that, but there's a lot to be said about being able to work out in your own home. Don't get me wrong, I like gyms, but there's a lot to be said about the convenience of popping a dvd into your TV in your living room and just devoting about an hour (depending on the day) exercising after which you can just down a shake and shower.

Wes Mantooth

Thanks Will. Yeah convenience really does go a long way especially when you don't have a lot of time to spend working out, a gym is even worse considering travel time, waiting for equipment ect.

My own routine is usually stretching (10 min) Running (30-60 per day depending on how hot it is outside), Bowflex (30 min or so every other day, mostly focusing on upper body exercises), finish with more stretching. Its not pretty but I figure as long as it keeps me in shape I don't see any reason to change it but a little variety would be nice too, sometimes it gets a little boring. I'll take a look a this a little deeper when I have more time.

Is the diet a necessary part of the program or does the exercise routine stand alone?

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Willravel

That sounds like a perfectly fine exercise regiment. P90X is 6 different exercise routines 6 days a week (chest and back, jump training, shoulders and arms, yoga, back and legs, and kenpo). After you've spent a few weeks getting used to one set of 6 routines, the program shifts to 6 new videos featuring new exercises that focus on new areas. After that's finished, there's a third program of exercises. The theory behind it is muscle confusion, where you change your routine so that your muscles can't totally adapt to the exercises. I'm not 100% sure of the science behind it, but the results do seem consistent for those able to stick to it.

The_Jazz

Yes, I'm sure. So is science. The soles of your feet and muscles may have adapted to barefoot running, but the tendons and ligaments haven't yet. Muscle and skin is incredibly easy to train. Tendons and ligaments aren't. Actually, they aren't trainable at all since there's no perceptable change in them as muscle strength builds and ebbs. Their elasticity doesn't really improve after adolecence.

Think about this - how long does it take to fully recover from a moderate-serious sprained ankle? If you answered anything less than a year, you're wrong. It takes that long for the ligaments to regain their "springyness", if they ever do (see my right ankle for that example).

There's nothing wrong with barefoot running/working out, but you need to know that you're at risk for injury, particularly as you build intensity. After all, you go pounding around Asfault America long enough, and a piece of grizzle is going to go *pop*, and then you'll be a pedestrian.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

filtherton

I should be getting P90x in a few weeks. I've been getting up before the sun 5 days a week putting on am hour or so on an elliptical machine in addition to biking a lot. My upper body is weak, my lower body slightly less so. I'm looking forward to getting my ass kicked by a workout routine.

snowy

It will totally kick your ass, but in a really good, I-can-still-function-but-holy-hell-I'm-sore kind of way.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

filtherton

That's my favorite kind of asskicking. The kind where you can hardly take the lid off of your water bottle because your arms and hands are so shaky and weak.

Willravel

This doesn't seem to indicate one can't adapt at all, just that it takes more time for ligaments and tendons to catch up.

Panopticon

I was actually in a similar situation before I started P90x.

Until about 3 weeks ago, when my gym membership ran out, I was weight training three times a week and doing some light running (6 mph for ~30 mins) three or four times a week. I considered myself to be in pretty decent shape.

I bought P90x because you can do it at home. The gym I was going to was getting way too crowded and my usual ~60 minute workout was turning into 90 minutes because of machine and weight availability. With P90x, all you really need are some dumbbells and something to do pull-ups on (like a doorway pull-up bar).

The thing I like about it most, at the moment, is that it is a very structured and easy to follow program. One of the problems I ran into with training on my own was that I never really knew if I was doing enough to get in great shape. These videos give you that extra kick in the butt and tell you EXACTLY what you should be doing. Basically, it is easy because you don't need to track what exercise you did the week before or anything like that...just do what Tony tells you to do.

Granted, I'm only three days into the program, but P90x definitely seems like it takes fitness to the next level. I never worked this hard during my workouts and I thought I was working at a pretty high level.

I think P90x would be good for maintaining a fitness level (if you are already at a high level), but it definitely seems like the program is designed to bring you to a new fitness level.

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.:Panopticon:.

Willravel

After you finish P90X, btw, there's something called "Insanity" that features high intensity cardio. It's meant to finish the job of "ripping" you, or reducing your body fat to the point where you look damned good. After I finish P90X doubles, I'm going full bore into Insanity.

snowy

I've got to find a way to make this workout line up better with the weekends. Coming up, I've got a couple Saturdays where working out is going to be impossible.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willravel

You could do it on Sunday and make Saturday your rest day. Monday may take a bit more effort, but you'll be able to work it into your schedule.

Meier_Link

I'm with Will on the barefoot thing. I've been working out barefoot for about a year and it hasn't caused me any problems. Dancers train barefoot and they do a lot of jumping around. Probably a good idea to have some padding though, I use a tumbling mat. I don't know that I'd recommend running barefoot on concrete or asphalt.

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Plan9

As an aside, all that barefoot Crossfit / P90X / whatever stuff? Great way to pick up a mean case of athlete's foot. The cracking, the burning!

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snowy

Yeah, this is why I wear shoes (for most of it). I seem to be prone to picking it up. I also wash or sanitize my yoga mat after yoga

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Willravel

I should probably stop doing P90X in a pond and then cooling off with a 6-hour mud bath. Or at least wear shoes when I do it.