Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community  

Go Back   Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community > The Academy > Tilted Life


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-13-2008, 08:05 PM   #1 (permalink)
Insane
 
miko's Avatar
 
Speaking of Working Out - P90X?

Anyone here do/doing this?
I just started and O...M...G...!

And I thought I was fairly fit. I workout, run, cycle, rollerblade... but this thing is KICKING MY ASS!!!
It works though. I mean, it's gotta the way I feel after doing. During doing it. Heck I'm scared to start doing it some days. lol
I've seen real results from others that have used it too. From what I've seen its better at cutting than at bulking. And I think that's what the average person needs anyway. Gain overall strength/stamina and lose lotsa fat.
You get a diet plan too, which actually is not bad.
We'll see.

Take a look...
http://www.beachbody.com/product/p90...de=GOOGLE_P90X
miko is offline  
Old 03-14-2008, 07:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Fotzlid's Avatar
 
Location: Greater Boston area
I've been trying to find more info about this program. The only thing I can find on the net is glowing, positive reviews. That alone makes me suspicious.
Fotzlid is offline  
Old 03-14-2008, 07:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
We work alone
 
LoganSnake's Avatar
 
Location: Cake Town
You could always try it for free and see if it works for you...
__________________
Maturity is knowing you were an idiot in the past. Wisdom is knowing that you'll be an idiot in the future. Common sense is knowing that you should try not to be an idiot now. - J. Jacques
LoganSnake is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 07:06 AM   #4 (permalink)
Insane
 
miko's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotzlid
I've been trying to find more info about this program. The only thing I can find on the net is glowing, positive reviews. That alone makes me suspicious.
That's funny cause all the positive reviews is what made me decide to get it.
But some of those reviews were from www.johnstonefitness.com forums which I usually trust very much. Most of the people there are pretty serious about their workouts.
miko is offline  
Old 03-15-2008, 09:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Fotzlid's Avatar
 
Location: Greater Boston area
I generally read the negative reviews before buying something. Nothing is perfect so i want to know the downsides before putting up my cash.
Nothing but positive reviews makes me think that the marketing department has gone overboard in an attempt to grab as much cash as possible till word gets out the product is no good.

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
Fotzlid is offline  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Ilow's Avatar
 
Location: Pats country
Well along with the fact that there are few negative reviews, there is definitely the essence of "too-good-to-be-true." Three months is a short period of time for any program to work. I would like to see the breakdowns of which workouts are done each day/week. I am also not overly keen on the idea of working two large muscle groups (i.e. chest/back, legs/back) the same workout. I guess I would like more info, but am scared off by the over the top Billy Mays style hype.
__________________
"Religion is the one area of our discourse in which it is considered noble to pretend to be certain about things no human being could possibly be certain about"
--Sam Harris
Ilow is offline  
Old 03-22-2008, 12:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
If anyone is on a workout routine that's not kicking their ass, they're not doing it right.

Be sure you're eating well and getting plenty of rest and enjoy it.
Willravel is offline  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
Young Crumudgeon
 
Martian's Avatar
 
Location: Canada
Umm.. yeah. Whenever somebody claims they can make me look like this:



in 90 days, my reaction is twofold.

1) They're full of shit. With a life centred completely around strict diet and intense exercise I might be able to achieve that, but even then I doubt I have the genetic predisposition necessary.

2) Even if they're not full of shit and they can make me look like that, why the hell would I want to?

Other than that, what willravel says. If it works for you good on ya I guess, but I'll stick with what I'm doing thanks.
__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame
Martian is offline  
Old 03-22-2008, 01:58 PM   #9 (permalink)
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
If you're just getting back into shape, 90 days is the first phase out of 4. In the first phase you will probably burn the most fat (if you know what the hell you're doing). You won't see someone looking like the guy in Martian's post until phase 4: the last 10 pounds. This is, of course, the most difficult phase.
Willravel is offline  
Old 04-17-2009, 05:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
Let's put a smile on that face
 
blahblah454's Avatar
 
Location: On the road...
Sorry to resurrect an old thread here, but I just started this last week. I just finished day 8 and I love it! Its all I think about work, coming home to work out.

My aunt bought the p90x program and she is big into fads, she tried the requirements and could not do it and so she gave it to me (as I already worked out plenty). I do not have the diet book, but I already eat a pretty good diet, lots of protein, low saturated fats and I eat about 5-6 times a day.

My roomie says she can see huge results already, I took the before pictures and I plan on taking them again after day 30. I suppose I will post them someday if you guys want to see if it actually works.

Week 1 I gave it about 90%, but today I gave it 110% and I absolutely loved it, I have not worked this hard in a long time!
blahblah454 is offline  
Old 04-17-2009, 07:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Mirth's Avatar
 
I used to do it when school wasn't kicking my ass 2 months ago. I could barely make it through some of the daily videos during the first 1 week, then I did the beginner's video for a week, and went back to the normal stuff. Then I could finish the videos. I did it for about 2 or 3 weeks, and I think it helped a bit. But I just don't have the hour to hour+1/2 to spend on working out everyday until this semester is over. I'll try it again in May, it's a fun workout program.
Mirth is offline  
Old 04-18-2009, 04:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
I have it but never used it..

if anyone is finding it too difficult they should try the P90 system or the beach body system.. if P90x isn't enough.. then go for P90x+ I'm sure that has plenty of ass kicking.

These things are meant to create money.. but Tony Horton is a smart guy and knows his stuff so don't discount him just because it's a "fad" routine. If you follow his diet plan and workout plan you will see some results and some results are better than no results because you're too lazy to workout at all or don't want to do it because it's a "fad"
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 04-18-2009, 08:19 AM   #13 (permalink)
immoral minority
 
ASU2003's Avatar
 
Location: Back in Ohio
If I had more time I would do this whole program (diet and exercise perfectly). I have been doing some P90X exercise routines this past winter, and I am starting out this spring a lot healthier and about where I was last fall in terms of fitness levels. It's a lot better than in previous years.

I think 50% of it is actually doing any exercise/weight training, and 30% is eating the right foods to keep fat from building up and to give you enough energy to exercise, and 20% is how hard you exercise and doing the correct exercises.

And I've watched that Biggest Loser TV show a few times, and if they can lose that much weight in 90 days (12 weeks?), I'm sure I could lose 5 pounds of fat and gain a few pounds of muscle.
Now, to look like the guy in the picture, I would probably need to stop drinking water for a day, but if you continue to exercise and eat the right foods, it is definitely possible.
ASU2003 is offline  
Old 04-18-2009, 10:05 AM   #14 (permalink)
Eccentric insomniac
 
Slims's Avatar
 
Location: North Carolina
Several of my fitness-fanatic friends have started doing P90X and have only good things to say about it.

I couldn't bring myself to work out to what appears to be an infomercial, but they are getting real results, and the program (despite how it is marketed) is very, very good. Even for people who are in excellent shape already.
__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence
Slims is offline  
Old 04-18-2009, 03:30 PM   #15 (permalink)
Junkie
 
I finally got my hands on it this winter. I haven't started it, I'm not ready yet. I know that might sound like bullshit, but after the bad injuries I've had, I have to be careful. I'll start slow, get out of my polar bear student slump, and back into working out every day. Once I feel strong enough to start p90, I'll be on a roll.

I'll post again about it maybe two weeks into the program. I expect it to kick my ass. And I used to train as an athlete. heh.
settie is offline  
Old 05-06-2009, 06:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Weezil's Avatar
 
Location: Deep in Jersey
I have it, and started it, but probably got 30-45 days through it the first two times I tried it. I had done about 2/3 of two rounds of Power 90 from the same company prior.

It is very serious and not easy, especially when you transition between phases. However, it's the first time I've had a real, structured plan, that I could actually feel making progress with me. I got nowhere going to the gym, but this system really laid it all out there.

I'll put it to you this way; how many infomercial products stay around more than 6 months to a year? P90X has been consistently marketed since 2005-2006 and doesn't show signs of going away. And actually, it's more than just everyday people using it; lots of celebrities and athletes have become P90Xers, too.

I have no intention of ever going back to a gym and am trying to convince more and more people that they can work out just as well if not better at home with a system like this.
Weezil is offline  
Old 05-17-2009, 07:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
Let's put a smile on that face
 
blahblah454's Avatar
 
Location: On the road...
Well thought I would comment on my progress. I have not been following it by the book as I am not always at home, sometimes I go back to Calgary and don't work out when I am there for the weekend. But so far great results. I am starting "week 5" tomorrow.

I have kept the same body weight, added 1/2 inch to each of my biceps, almost 1/2 inch to my forearms and about an inch to my chest. Added 40 lbs to my bench press as well.

As of last week I have been jogging 1 mile every now and then as well, and yesterday I went on a 11km walk with some dogs in my hiking boots to make sure they were broken in all nice still (been a few years since I have worn them). My plan is to get a respectable 1 mile run time (unfortunately I have no idea what this is), and eventually be able to jog 6+ miles to help build my endurance for hiking/biking season.
blahblah454 is offline  
Old 05-18-2009, 01:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
Confused Adult
 
Shauk's Avatar
 
Location: Spokane, WA


one of my friends, she swears by it.
Shauk is offline  
Old 05-18-2009, 07:07 AM   #19 (permalink)
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
 
dlish's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
Quote:
Originally Posted by blahblah454 View Post
Well thought I would comment on my progress. I have not been following it by the book as I am not always at home, sometimes I go back to Calgary and don't work out when I am there for the weekend. But so far great results. I am starting "week 5" tomorrow.

I have kept the same body weight, added 1/2 inch to each of my biceps, almost 1/2 inch to my forearms and about an inch to my chest. Added 40 lbs to my bench press as well.

As of last week I have been jogging 1 mile every now and then as well, and yesterday I went on a 11km walk with some dogs in my hiking boots to make sure they were broken in all nice still (been a few years since I have worn them). My plan is to get a respectable 1 mile run time (unfortunately I have no idea what this is), and eventually be able to jog 6+ miles to help build my endurance for hiking/biking season.
blah..you're always welcome to swing past and visit. ill prganise a trek for ya!
__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy
dlish is offline  
Old 05-22-2009, 07:36 AM   #20 (permalink)
I'm a family man - I run a family business.
 
Redjake's Avatar
 
Location: Wilson, NC
P90X - Extreme Home Fitness with Tony Horton DVD Boxset (13 DVDs)

P90X for $59.99

Won't last long!
__________________
Off the record, on the q.t., and very hush-hush.
Redjake is offline  
Old 05-22-2009, 08:16 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
if you're really hardcore go for the P90x+ routine. it makes P90x feel like jr. high phys ed.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 05-22-2009, 04:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
Let's put a smile on that face
 
blahblah454's Avatar
 
Location: On the road...
I plan on getting the p90x+ after I am done with the regular p90x. This is the greatest workout I have ever done!

I did the Bicep/Back dvd yesterday and my biceps are in so much pain today (in a good way), never before have I ever worked them so hard. I am highly addicted!
blahblah454 is offline  
Old 05-22-2009, 10:04 PM   #23 (permalink)
But You'll Never Prove It.
 
ItWasMe's Avatar
 
Location: under your bed
Ok I have a question about this program for those who have it.

Lately I have been sticking with my bike and treadmill. I have done aerobics to tv shows before, and I always have a hard time figuring out what to do. "Ok everybody do this..." By the time I've figured out what we're doing now, how to get my legs into that position (and WHY), and done it for 10 seconds, they've moved on to the next step. By the time I've figured out that step, tried it, and moved the furniture so that I don't whack my ankle again, they've gone through two more sets. And so on, and so on. They fly through the moves so quickly I have a hard time catching on to what I am supposed to be doing. If it was one cd, I could memorize it eventually.

I saw the ad and commercial for the program the OP mentioned. Several times they mentioned the variety causes muscle confusion, thus preventing a plateau. But do they change things so often that you find it difficult to mentally keep up with what they are doing?
__________________
. . . . . . . . . . . . . .


"Ok, no more truth-or-dare until somebody returns my underwear" ~ George Lopez

I bake cookies just so I can lick the bowl. ~ ItWasMe

ItWasMe is offline  
Old 05-23-2009, 03:52 AM   #24 (permalink)
Registered User
 
ItWasMe,

this program is broken up in to several levels, including music only, direction only, etc etc,

however, while they do change often, they give you the time on the bottom which allows you to pause, rewind, fast forward etc as needed. Plus, when you first start P90x, trust me, you won't be going the full minute for each discipline (sometimes the sets are longer). So to begin with you should be able to keep up as far as changes rather easily. The only one that is a bit difficult is the Yoga, especially if you aren't familiar with yoga. It's hard to do the pose/stretch correctly when you can't see the screen

to begin with it could be a bit overwhelming but like I said before you won't be doing the exercise long enough to be worried about keeping up. They'll be doing 30/40/50 pullups/pushups and to begin with you'll (universal you) be doing 5/10/20 or less. It's all about pacing yourself and Tony is very clear to go at your pace and not try to keep up with them.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 05-23-2009, 02:28 PM   #25 (permalink)
Paladin of the Palate
 
LordEden's Avatar
 
Location: Redneckville, NC
Could I use this system along with running? I just bought a gym membership and I still want to run everyday, but I don't want to overload my body. I have a broken down exercise list for muscle systems to work and how many reps, but I'm always looking for something new. I just don't want to waste my gym membership.

I'm just started running today, so I need a bit to break my body back into shape.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baraka_Guru View Post
In my own personal experience---this is just anecdotal, mind you---I have found that there is always room to be found between boobs.
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich
LordEden is offline  
Old 05-26-2009, 03:26 PM   #26 (permalink)
immoral minority
 
ASU2003's Avatar
 
Location: Back in Ohio
You probably don't need the videos when you are at the gym, but the pace, exercises, and muscles worked would apply to a gym setting. If you have a professional training plan, then you don't need it, and it is more important to do something rather than nothing. But, it might take you longer if you don't do the correct exercises.

Or if you travel to boring places on business and have free time, this can be done with minimal equipment.
ASU2003 is offline  
Old 05-26-2009, 04:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
Junkie
 
Location: My head.
You know what, I'm doing this !!!

**PUFFS CHEST**

Will post before pictures when I think the TFP can stomach it.
Xerxys is offline  
Old 05-26-2009, 06:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
 
dlish's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xerxys View Post
You know what, I'm doing this !!!

**PUFFS CHEST**

Will post before pictures when I think the TFP can stomach it.
you think 'stomach' is the right word?
__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Last edited by dlish; 05-26-2009 at 07:00 PM..
dlish is offline  
Old 05-27-2009, 03:32 PM   #29 (permalink)
Tilted
 
Location: California
My friend first went on P90 and he lost a lot of weight, although he didn't gain much muscle. After that he started the P90x program and he looks great! It's a lot of work, and really, a life style change and it's well worth it if you have the time and dedication. I also know of others that have tried it and achieved great results. You can look on craig's list as there might be some local groups in your community that actually get together and do these workouts as a group.
iwst99 is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 09:14 PM   #30 (permalink)
Misanthropic
 
Crack's Avatar
 
Location: Ohio! yay!
anyone want to explain wtf P90X stands for?
__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx
Crack is offline  
Old 06-01-2009, 09:27 PM   #31 (permalink)
I Confess a Shiver
 
Plan9's Avatar
 
The Fabrique Nationale P90 is a 5.7x28mm submachi... oh, wait.
__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."
Plan9 is offline  
Old 06-02-2009, 03:42 AM   #32 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crack View Post
anyone want to explain wtf P90X stands for?
Power 90(minutes) Xtreme

something like that. I'm thinking about doing it again.. I've become lazy and overworked, I need a stress reliever.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:16 AM   #33 (permalink)
Upright
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Martian View Post
Umm.. yeah. Whenever somebody claims they can make me look like this:

in 90 days, my reaction is twofold.

1) They're full of shit. With a life centred completely around strict diet and intense exercise I might be able to achieve that, but even then I doubt I have the genetic predisposition necessary.

2) Even if they're not full of shit and they can make me look like that, why the hell would I want to?

Other than that, what willravel says. If it works for you good on ya I guess, but I'll stick with what I'm doing thanks.
My first post here. Seems like a relatively no-hype zone. Hope so!

Agree 100%. Who really wants to look like that? Well i know a few people... In any case i have just ordered the program and will report on my progress. I have no interest in looking like someone who spends his entire life looking in the mirror or working out but i do wanna be in awesome shape and look my best.

Something no one seems to talk about is the application of this program for people who travel non stop for work. I am one of those. I travel about two weeks a month and often to places where there are few gyms accessible. I've ordered this program in hopes that it will be a hotel room friendly program that will keep me fit while i'm away. When i'm not traveling i'll stick to my master's swim team and a fully stocked gym.

Hopefully the program will be fun, keep me enaged and worth the $$$.

Can anyone comment on using the program while traveling? Any comments about it real value?
emdubillu is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:23 AM   #34 (permalink)
warrior bodhisattva
 
Baraka_Guru's Avatar
 
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
Hey, emdubillu, great first post, and welcome to TFP!

Although I'm not that familiar with the program, generally in your case any weightless (bodyweight) program would be of a benefit to you and your situation. You could always customize the P90X to suit you, as it appears the program uses dumbbells.

You can travel with resistance bands much easier than dumbbells, so look into those. You can do several things with them, including rows, curls, etc. They're lightweight and easily fold into luggage.

Find a program that works and just make the changes you need to suit your lifestyle/work environment.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot
Baraka_Guru is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 06:56 AM   #35 (permalink)
Registered User
 
they actually recommend starting with resistance bands anyway.. so yeah I'd go that route. You can easily adapt the program to your needs. You can use the bands in lieu of a pull up bar as well. Just get a set with a door adapter and you're all set.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 01:17 PM   #36 (permalink)
Please touch this.
 
Halx's Avatar
 
Owner/Admin
Location: Manhattan
If anyone knows what I look like (a lot of you), you'd know that I have absolutely no need for weight loss. So, if I were to partake of this program, it would be purely for muscle development. I wonder if my body could even handle it. I'm fairly resilient, but I am not very strong. I can do low-impact exercises forever, but my body fades quickly when I put it under heavy stress. I assume that if I build muscle mass, I will be able to withstand longer high-impact workouts. So, back to my concern about being able to handle this system. Should I try some junior workout first or does this scale to my capabilities?
__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]
Halx is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 02:21 PM   #37 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Halx, start with p90 and then p90x after that. The first stage of p90x is fat burning and weight loss, but I suppose you could go to the second stage, but you need to realize that it's not just a workout program, it's a full on change of eating (which you've started anyway) and lifestyle changes. So if you want, see if you can find someone with the program and browse through it and see if it's right for you.
Glory's Sun is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 03:00 PM   #38 (permalink)
Upright
 
achillesheel's Avatar
 
Location: Southern California
A friend gave me p90x but i'm just not in the right shape to start it so I'm starting with my father's p90 to lose weight first.

The friend who did it was already slightly in shape and after 90 days he was RIPPED, the program really works if you stick with it
achillesheel is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 03:28 PM   #39 (permalink)
Junkie
 
I do the Ab Ripper X! It's awesome! As for the other stuff....eh..
surferlove007 is offline  
Old 07-16-2009, 04:14 PM   #40 (permalink)
Junkie
 
highthief's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
So where are all the threatened before and after pics?
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Last edited by highthief; 07-16-2009 at 04:14 PM.. Reason: typo
highthief is offline  
 

Tags
p90x, speaking, working


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:40 PM.

Tilted Forum Project

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
© 2002-2012 Tilted Forum Project

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360