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Old 05-15-2006, 06:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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How much mental control do you have? And is it important?

How much mental control do you have?

And how important is it to you?

I'm asking from the frame of my own mind - I consider myself an extremely mentally controlled person, and take a great deal of pride in it. However, many of the people I know and hear about exhibit an astonishing lack thereof and likewise don't see it as being an important trait.

By mental control, I mean the ability to take things rationally and not react emotionally to a situation that doesn't warrant it. I mean not crying unless there's a justifiable reason: strong mental or physical pain. I mean not letting undesirable emotions perpetuate in your pysche so long that they're destructive. I mean not staying sad for more than the absolute minimum necessary to learn and move on. I think the worst exhibition of a low mental control is justifying current actions with previous actions; "I am emotional like this becuase of X event in my past." No. You're not. You're emotional like that because you're lettting X event of your past CONTROL YOU NOW. This, to me, is the biggest sign of a lack of mental control.

Personally I'd rather stray towards the "emotionless" side than the "emotional-wreck" side, but I'd be interested to see how the TFPers as a whole place themselves.

On the whole, in general, from my own experience, women seem to be less mentally controlled then men. This implies nothing about any woman in particular and presumes nothing about individuals, just that my life experience has given me reason to find credibility in this idea.

Most mental disorders I classify as a mental disorder and not a physical disorder, and I believe they can be controlled quite well by a mentally controlled person. Depression, "suidical" tendencies, PTSD, etc. They are all very mental constructs, created usually by situation and not a chemical imbalance, especially later in life. I see people get ridiculously mad in arguments with their spouses, to the point of screaming and slamming things. To me, that's absolutely ridiculous -- it takes very little skill to realize when you're going to become emotional and avoid it. Do you feel controlled? Do you wish you were more controlled? And how important is it to you to improve that ability, if it is important to you?
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:56 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I have been described on a few occassions as an emotional monotone. I believe that some of the mental disorders you mentioned can be avoided but not cured by clear thinking and silencing emotions that lead to irrational conclusions. There are, however exceptions to the rule. There is such a thing as chemical imbalances.

For the last year I have had to take a hormone drug to help with infertility. One of the side effects is essentially a chemical imbalance that causes moderate to severe mood swings. I can honestly say that I have been able to keep control of my emotions, despite the excellent excuse for doing otherwise. So I know that it is possible to maintain control. I wonder though if I could exert the same control in this situation if I had not practiced for so many years during optimal conditions. That is why I think that many of the mental disorders you mentioned can be avoided, but perhaps not cured by controlling your emotions.
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Old 05-15-2006, 06:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Most likely stemming from my childhood - and I say this with no ego - I am likely the most mentally controlled person that I've ever known.

To be perfectly honest, I'm not really all that certain it is an advantage or not - certainly I don't suffer the extreme sadness/depression that many other people do, but I don't particularily get joyful or ridiculously happy either.

Again, this probably sounds like I'm attempting to toot my own horn here, but I honestly cannot remember any particular incidents where I have acted irrationally based on my emotions. Hell, for the longest time I was only vaguely aware that I even had emotions.

In all likelyhood it is probably just a defense mechanism that I've established, but I like to attribute it to my observations of emotional people. Very, very seldom in my life have I seen someone who is unduly upset make a rational decision - nor even one that I could foresee a positive end result. Extreme anger is especially the case.

I do my absolute best not to make any decisions based on any emotion alone. Certainly my emotions probably influence my decision whether I like it or not, but I have done precisely the opposite of what my emotions dictated time and time again because from a more intellectual viewpoint, it was the incorrect choice to make.

Boy, a psychologist would have a field day with me...
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Old 05-15-2006, 06:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It is important to realize the difference between self-control and suppressing your emotions. I used to think I was in control when the truth was that I was just ignoring the way I felt and didn't express it.

My late twenties have been a learning process where I'm learning to express my emotions constructively. It is ongoing. That way I don't sacrifice my own happiness.
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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I am "in control" of my emotions for most of my day, especially when I am at work or in school. This is because I don't see any other choice for exhibiting character, discipline, and integrity when I am responsible for tasks or other people. I restrict myself a great deal from expressing or even acknowledging emotions when I am in those roles. I would say 99% of the people in my life, from the time I was in high school up to now, have never seen me cry or "freak out" in any manner.

However, when I am alone or with one of the few people that I allow myself to be vulnerable around (mostly my bf but occasionally some close family members or friends), then I allow myself to feel emotions that I am otherwise forced to ignore by this illusion of "mental control" placed on us by Western society. I let myself feel genuinely happy, sad, grieving, etc, and when those emotions are ready to pass, I try to let them go their way. Sometimes it's hard work to let go of them, but like aberkok, I am learning a lot about myself in my later 20s. Meditation often helps, even if it's just me following my own breathing while I am falling asleep (to quiet my often racing mind and feelings). Mostly, I just need to talk things out, or write them out in a journal, and then the feelings go away.

This code-switching process is part of who I am, and I feel healthier by allowing myself to both remain in control (as society demands) and also to feel and express my passing emotions. I don't see the latter as a loss of mental control, whatsoever. I see extreme mental control as being rather counter-productive to one's health, actually, and overly suppressive to an individual's well-being and balance. I saw it the most when teaching adolescents... the inculcation of what is proper male vs. female "mental control"... it is pretty abhorrent to me, actually, because you see the psychological damage for both genders and their relationships with each other.

Finding a balance (or at least not getting too imbalanced) is far more important than grasping for control, in my opinion.
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:32 PM   #6 (permalink)
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This is a cool thread you started. I admire your strenght JinnKai. Being cool headed is a very good trait to have.

My experience in this department has been mixed and I've learned allot about myself.

Repression leads me to anxiety. I have seen time and time again that there is no such thing as ignoring my emotions. I either have to work though them or express them. Otherwise they come out in other forms, most commonly anxiety - and rare cases of believing I am Dick Clark.

I thought I had allot of control until I started leaving my comfort zones. That is, not just expossing myself to new environments and situations but challenging the states of my existing relationships. I was supperbly shocked at how uncomfortable I felt going into uncharted territories with people I've known for years. Now that my life is tumultuous, I relly on three things to keep me balanced...

One is having a strong inner reality - all experience is subjective, and all meaning depends on perspective. The stronger my frame of mind the less others are able to influence me with their negative emtotions. It also helps to think big. World's King is my rolemodel.

Second is the power of reframing - if I am ever caught off guard (which is often) I'll try to put the situation in a possitive context.

Finally, I am learning to live with emotion, I just wish them to be possitive. I find treading safely and putting a shell around myself kept me from experiencing the good as well as the bad.

Or, you can take the shortcut with pot and booze!

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Old 05-16-2006, 04:36 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't think control is that important - at least in the sense you refer to it. It is good to have some notion of what is appropriate. But I do not repress my emotions, instead working through them and expressing them when necessary and adequate.

You use the word control far too many times in your original post for me to believe that the form of mental self-control that you refer to is actually something balanced and healthy.

You say you'd rather be emotionless than an emotional wreck, but would you rather be emotionless, period? I'd rather be emotional. What is the point of so much control in one's life? Emotions are one of the few things people have in this world that makes them feel alive and of some value.

I agree that some people blow up at the slightest thing, and myself being a person with a, shall we say, interesting temper, I have learned throughout my life to keep that under control, and in the process I have learned a lot about understanding and listening to others. So I understand what you are saying about control.

But I think it's ok for people to feel depressed and let certain events that have happened to them and caused negative outcomes in their lives overcome them, because for a while, that's what those people need to feel. Sometimes you need to grieve. I'm not sure whether a stony resolve is a quality in this case. I'ts not good to wallow in self-pity, I agree. But allowing yourself to feel your own mind and heart's suffering is the best way of coming out a better, more mature and level-headed person.

I think your post is a bit judgmental of others, everyone is different. When you say that you think it's ridiculous that people have heated arguments about small things, and that "it takes very little skill to realize when you're going to become emotional and avoid it". I'm not sure it takes so little skill as you say. Many people don't have that skill. I dare say a great majority. I'm not saying I think it's a good thing, I think I have that skill to some extent. But perhaps what seems so simple to you is actually not so evident to others.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:05 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Wow. If everyone were in more "control" of themselves, do you realize there'd be no art whatsoever? Maybe that's okay for you and Spock, but I'd rather be dead than live in a world without emotional expression.
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Old 05-16-2006, 10:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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... ability to take things rationally and not react emotionally to a situation that doesn't warrant it.
Rationally To you.

Quote:
I mean not crying unless there's a justifiable reason: strong mental or physical pain.
Justifiable or strong to you.

Quote:
I mean not letting undesirable emotions perpetuate in your pysche so long that they're destructive.
There are really no undesireable emotions. There are no "good" nor "bad" emotions. They just are. It's your view on them that makes them what you perceive them to be.
Just like wood is just wood, whether you use it to build a house, or a concentration camp.

Repressing emotional response is very not healthy. Neither is rolling in one's emotional vomit.

Try to think of emotions as muscles. Yes, you could build them and build them and build them until you are a stiff brick walking around, but you are actually much more prone to injury because you are not flexible.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:56 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I have never advocated ignoring emotions or being emotion free. When making a decision to react to any given situation everything, including emotions, should be put on the pro/con list. Then a decision should be made. Usually the reactive emotion simply goes away once a situation has been rationaly analized. For example, if someone calls me an idiot, the first emotional response is to be hurt then angry. If the name caller was a two year old, suddenly those emotional responses become unnecessary and therefore counterproductive. Recognizing that an emotion is irrelavant is not the same as repression.

Quote:
Wow. If everyone were in more "control" of themselves, do you realize there'd be no art whatsoever? Maybe that's okay for you and Spock, but I'd rather be dead than live in a world without emotional expression.
Again emotional control does not mean zero emotion, it just means not allowing it to be the sole determinate in your decision making. I am a profesional artist and a very creative person, even by artists standards. My self mastery doesn't keep me from being creative and enjoying art and the many beautiful things in the world, I believe it helps me. I don't have to sit around waiting for my environment to generate an emotion in me to capture a mood in my paintings.
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Old 05-16-2006, 05:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Hey guys, I'm great too! Let's all hear me blab on about how awesome I think I am!
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:32 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Carno
Hey guys, I'm great too! Let's all hear me blab on about how awesome I think I am!
From the limited information I gather from your post, I get the impression that for whatever reason you believe that people that are non-emotional also believe they are better than others - why is that?
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Old 05-17-2006, 01:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I'm going to say without of course meaining to blow your stuff out of the water, but if you were so mentally controlled then why would you post a thread about your own computer addiction????

edit: found another thread where you state you don't have any self control.

I thought that addiction was as simple as a mental game and exerting my own control over it. I have learned that it is not the case, and that I have no mental control over it. I have no ability to be controlled enough now or ever. I may for short spurts of time, but truth be told in the long run I have shown that I cannot.

So it's been my experience, that I have control over my computer using, but yet you and many others your age do not. It is not my place to generalize that my experience shows that people younger than me have less mental control.

We are all different people, we have differences in abilities, fears, hopes, loves, hates, dreams, histories, experiences, and viewpoints.
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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How much mental control do you have?

And how important is it to you?
These were the primary questions of the OP.

I only offered a discussion of my OWN mental control for explanation's sake, and to avoid having my post deleted for not offering an opinion. How you feel about my assessment of my own mental control is truly an aside and doesn't address the question of the OP. I recognize that many readers detected a tone of superiority in my post, but I said what I said and I'm stickin' to it.

You see, it's a double-edged sword. If I post just the question, it'll be locked. If I post a question and my own personal belief, my belief tends to be addressed more than the question itself.


Maybe I need to get better at boldface, or offer such a noncomittal opinion that it can't be dissected at length? I didn't (and don't) really care to discuss my own personal self control so much as get an idea of how much others cared about controlling themselves.

The thought process was something like: "I wonder if other people put as much focus on mental control as I do? And I wonder if they're interested in improving it? I certainly am."

To address any thought of hypocrisy:
I am certainly not perfect, yet I hope to increase my mental control over time. In that regard, I think any post I've made in the past is relatively insignificant to the discussion, as I'm working to improve it. Recognizing our past is only a tool for improvement, not a point to dwell on. My discussion question was directed to whether OTHERS felt the need to improve their mental control, or if they were happy with where it was.

And in regards to repression:
What I'm describing isn't repression. Repressing or supressing your emotions is quite unheathly, because you fail to address them and they eat at your pysche until they're dealt with. What I meant by mental control is having the clarity to recognize a building emotion, quickly decide on how you wish to express it (if at all) and act on that decision. For me, the decision is most often "DO NOT ACT", as I decide that the emotion is unbounded and unncessary to express. It's not a repression, but a calculated decision to accept the situation as-is and not react emotionally to the stimulus.

MEAD:
Quote:
Wow. If everyone were in more "control" of themselves, do you realize there'd be no art whatsoever? Maybe that's okay for you and Spock, but I'd rather be dead than live in a world without emotional expression.
Regarding this, I'm not sure from what basis you derive this assumption. Why does art have to be an expression of emotion at all? While there are admittedly some emotional arts, such as love songs and etcetera, art is an expression of creativity more than emotion. I don't have to be sad or mad or happy or angry to create an amazing painting. I only need an idea, the skill to convey that idea, and the medium to convey it on. It's my belief that the idea is the most important, stemming from your creative faculties rather than your emotional ones. Frogza said it well:

Quote:
Again emotional control does not mean zero emotion, it just means not allowing it to be the sole determinate in your decision making. I am a profesional artist and a very creative person, even by artists standards. My self mastery doesn't keep me from being creative and enjoying art and the many beautiful things in the world, I believe it helps me. I don't have to sit around waiting for my environment to generate an emotion in me to capture a mood in my paintings.
Sultana:
Quote:
There are really no undesireable emotions. There are no "good" nor "bad" emotions. They just are. It's your view on them that makes them what you perceive them to be.
There are appropriate and inappropriate times to express emotions, and society has clearly defined boundaries on when it's acceptable and when it is not. There are emotions that are HARMFUL to your well-being, and I'd certainly consider them "bad" emotions. I think it'd be silly if you tried to tell me that its only my perception of anger that tells me it's a bad emotion to have all the time. You can honestly tell me that being angry all the time is not "undesirable"? Unless you can, you have to admit that some emotions are NOT desirable, only necessary for the evolution of response and change within an individual.
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Old 05-19-2006, 09:40 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I'm pleased to see you came back to fight the good fight, JinnKai.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sultana
There are really no undesireable emotions. There are no "good" nor "bad" emotions. They just are. It's your view on them that makes them what you perceive them to be.
While I wouldn't go that far, as I believe there are inherantly bad emotions (like that seething revenge emotion), I certainly believe that our views radically shape the world around us. We see what we believe is there, and we react in turn as well. I am continually surprised at how different the world seems to be sometimes. Then I realize that the my outlook on it is what has truely changed.
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Old 05-19-2006, 10:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Toaster126
I'm pleased to see you came back to fight the good fight, JinnKai.

While I wouldn't go that far, as I believe there are inherantly bad emotions (like that seething revenge emotion), I certainly believe that our views radically shape the world around us. We see what we believe is there, and we react in turn as well. I am continually surprised at how different the world seems to be sometimes. Then I realize that the my outlook on it is what has truely changed.
Emotions themselves aren't good or bad. They just exist.

Acting upon those emotions are where it can be bad. Your "seething revenge" emotion, isn't an emotion at all. It's Anger, with the action of revenge.

Jinn, as for ART is concerned for YOU cannot create art via emotion, that doesn't mean that everyone in the world needs to follow that method. You need to be open to the idea that while it's not for YOU and YOUR experience, it is and has to be a possibility that it is not that way for another human being.

Repressing feelings and emotions is definitely a bad thing. Repressing them with behaviors such as alcohol and drugs and other destructive habits is not a good thing.

Letting your emotions happen and not acting upon them is tantamount to serenity.
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Old 05-19-2006, 12:08 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You're splitting hairs on semantics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cynthetiq
Letting your emotions happen and not acting upon them is tantamount to serenity.
is the same thing as...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinnkai
What I meant by mental control is having the clarity to recognize a building emotion, quickly decide on how you wish to express it (if at all) and act on that decision.
And,
Quote:
Emotions themselves aren't good or bad. They just exist.
Since you've used the personalization argument on me, here it is in return:

Cyn, as for emotion is concerned, just because you can't accept that certain emotions are inherently bad, that doesn't mean that everyone in the world needs to follow your method. You need to be open to the idea that while it's not for YOU and YOUR experience, it is and has to be a possibility that it is not that way for another human being.

Do you realize the redundancy of this argument? It can be used in any context to declare that the position is subjective and relevant only to the person speaking. I'd hope it would be assumed that statements made by someone are, in fact, applicable to them but not universally extensible. Whether my language connotes universality or not, it is still up to the reader to decide whether it is truly applicable to their own unique situation.

On the argument itself, that emotions just "exist" and are not inherently bad or good, I (humbly) disagree. Anytime you discuss "good vs evil" its directly a philosophical argument, and I believe there is an a hierarchy of "good" when you're talking about emotions, rather than a line draw specifically at your response to them.

While you're content to draw the line as your actions alone being the purveyors of good or bad, I think that even FEELING certain emotions is bad. Under your construction, consistently feeling "anger" in response to a particulary offensive person would never be considered a bad thing. After all, they're just emotions and "feeling" them consistently could never be bad, right?

AnnoyingPerson says X, you feel anger. You decide to not act on that emotion.
AnnoyingPerson says X, you feel anger. You decide to not act on that emotion.

This continues ad nauseum without you ever deigning that there is a "bad" thing happening here. By making a conscious decision to NOT feel the anger in the future (by thickening your skin, perhaps) you avoid the entirely pointless loop above. This is a good thing.

In short, your actions in response to emotions can certainly be bad or good, but so can continously allowing an emotion to surface. Bad emotions like anger, sadness, and envy can be avoided, and the necessity to even MAKE a decision regarding their appropriateness in a given situation is removed. Their utilitarian purpose (in my personal belief) is only as motivators and decision makers. We allow them to surface to make key decisions (should I trust this person, should I continue to associate with this person), etc, and we discard them. Why discard them so hastily? Because they're bad.

And, as an aside, I noticed that our abbreviated names (Cyn/Jinn) rhyme and it made me giggle in the middle of a really serious typing session. Bastard.
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Old 05-19-2006, 01:26 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I am quite open to the fact that a bad emotion can exist, but as far as I have seen and others have shared with me their range of emotions, none are. Each emotion is balance within the being, for happiness needs sadness, joy needs sorrow, laughter needs anguish. If you have no sadness one can never appreciate happiness. Why? Because emotions are what make us human.

In reference to your anger piece, no you feel the anger. You should be removing what causes the anger. If being upset by traffic and peole cutting you off makes you angry, then you need to understand what it is you can do about it. If you have to drive to get to where you want to go, well then there is little you can do to change it. But what you can change is your own responsibiltiy to it and that is accepting it as it is. You cannot change the traffic, you cannot change the people cutting you off. You know it's going to happen. Accept it. The anger has no place any longer.

Sure you're very welcome to have your belief structure. I'm not stating that it is wrong. I'm just sharing my experience which is counter to yours.

Yours is something that I did believe for a very long time, and in my quest for inner peace, I found that I was standing too close to the tree to see the forest.

edit: I'm rereading it and the lower portion seems to actually be in more agreement with each other than at first pass. If you'd like to discuss this further I'd like to continue to do so, I am just hoping that we aren't keeping anyone else from participating in the discussion.
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Old 05-19-2006, 02:07 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Some of us can have inner peace without the crap on the edges, Cynthetiq. Having strong emotional responses removes or hinders the ability to use logic and reasoning to guide your actions. That is "bad".

Manic depressives \ bi-polar people have mania. That's certainly an emotional state, and I would say it is bad. It's cool to disagree with that, but at least acknowledge it's just a difference in opinion, not some fact.
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Old 05-19-2006, 02:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster126
Some of us can have inner peace without the crap on the edges, Cynthetiq. Having strong emotional responses removes or hinders the ability to use logic and reasoning to guide your actions. That is "bad".

Manic depressives \ bi-polar people have mania. That's certainly an emotional state, and I would say it is bad. It's cool to disagree with that, but at least acknowledge it's just a difference in opinion, not some fact.
Sure but that's not the scope that I was talking in. If we're to use that as the basis, then the whole conversation takes a completely different turn.

My opinion is that there are no attachments to emotions. Emotions stand on their own. Go back look at any philosophy about the human condition and from what I read and recall there isn't anything about the emotion itself as being quantified as good or bad. They just exist.

Again the emotions themselves aren't the issue, the issue is ACTING upon those emotions. If you act out in a BAD way then you attach that the emotion is bad. But if the emotion just exists as it is, and no action is taken then the emotion is just what it is, an emotion.

The manic or bipolar is acting on the emotions they are having. It's the acting on the emotions that causes the problems, not the emotion.

We are talking the same thing just using different language to get there. You are stating that action on the emotions is what is bad. Same thing I am.
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Old 05-19-2006, 02:28 PM   #21 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toaster126
Having strong emotional responses removes or hinders the ability to use logic and reasoning to guide your actions. That is "bad".
I have to point out, Toaster, that these statements are also opinions, not facts.

For my part, I do not think having strong emotional responses *in themselves* remove or hinder the ability to use logic and reasoning to guide one's actions. I think they *often* do, but that's correlation, not causation.

I think having emotional responses is not a value-laden experience, in itself. I do think that if one is unable to take one's emotional temperature, realize it's a bit too high for level-headed negotiation, and employ a self-soothing mechanism to take one's emotions down a level... well yeah, that is "bad" for negotiation. But feeling them in the first place does not somehow make a person stupid or incapable of making a good decision.

/just your friendly INFPer's personal opinions.
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Old 05-19-2006, 07:46 PM   #22 (permalink)
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For the most part i have a strong mental control....i am rational in situations and am able to step outta myself and see the situation for what it really is instead of drawing from the emotional part of me.
It is important b-cuz sometime being irrational is so unwarranted. I follow logic, and emotions stares one away from seeing that logic.
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Old 05-19-2006, 08:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JinnKai
I'm asking from the frame of my own mind - I consider myself an extremely mentally controlled person, and take a great deal of pride in it. However, many of the people I know and hear about exhibit an astonishing lack thereof and likewise don't see it as being an important trait.
For some reason this reminds me of another thread. It sticks out because you were saying something about cussing all the time and not understanding what the big deal was...not understanding why everyone chose to be offended.

And then here you are saying you think you have great self-control. Much moreso than people you know and hear about.

To me, this is contradiction. Or, if not, then maybe a bit of tunnel-vision.

Where you see great self-control, others see something different entirely.

It is a matter of perspective, obviously. You seem to become defensive when things like this are pointed out, which - to me, anyway - shows a lack of self-control. But like I said, that is simply my perspective.

To answer your question: When I find myself making a concentrated effort to control what I say or do, it usually means someone has made me very angry, very happy or very sad. I usually catch myself before doing or saying something that I'll regret later.

I think it is important not to overreact on a regular basis, as it will have a great effect on how others feel toward you. It is possible to alienate people without even trying. Or, more accurately, by not trying hard enough to keep in check some of the things you want to say.
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:49 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
For some reason this reminds me of another thread. It sticks out because you were saying something about cussing all the time and not understanding what the big deal was...not understanding why everyone chose to be offended.

And then here you are saying you think you have great self-control. Much moreso than people you know and hear about.

To me, this is contradiction. Or, if not, then maybe a bit of tunnel-vision.
Perhaps you should re-read that thread? I just did, and I see a consistency of purpose between my posts in that thread and my posts in this thread.

I argued the devil's advocate case in that thread; that people will always swear, no matter how you feel about it or what words you chose as "vulgar" words. I continued to argue (with mixed success) that the only mature solution was to stop letting other's offensive words bother you.

That too, was clearly an issue of self-control. While the swearer certainly has an obligation to exercise self-control and not swear, the swearee has a similar obligation to exercise self-control and not let it bother them. I argued the way I did simply because so many people do not feel that offense is under THEIR control. It's about taking control of your emotions and not letting them override your logic. Sound familiar?

Quote:
Where you see great self-control, others see something different entirely.
This is apparent, and has been discussed at length. I realize that certain users of this board consider me to be lacking in self-control, and its very likely that I'll never convince them otherwise, short of meeting them in person. I'm okay with that, but I'd like to avoid continously defending against other poster's PERCEPTIONS of my control level. I'd perhaps like others to analyze their own self-control and provide insight into (a) whether they consider themselves controlled, and (b) if they're interested in increasing or decreasing that control and why.

Quote:
It is a matter of perspective, obviously. You seem to become defensive when things like this are pointed out, which - to me, anyway - shows a lack of self-control. But like I said, that is simply my perspective.
Defensive, indeed; self-control is a personal trait that I hold in high regard, and you'll note that most of my posts are tinged with this bias. I'd like others' perception to be similar to my own, so I attempt to defend against misperceptions. It's evident, however, that online forums are not the place to convince others that their perceptions of your character, intelligence, etc are incorrect.

So as I've said before and will likely say again,
Quote:
I didn't (and don't) really care to discuss my own personal self control so much as get an idea of how much others cared about controlling themselves.
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Old 05-22-2006, 09:44 AM   #25 (permalink)
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No matter how often you say that you are not interested in discussing other's opinions on your own personal self-control, you still seem interested in "retaliating" to those opinions.

When you offer a subject up for discussion, because it is important to you, then naturally what will interest others the most is not only giving you their own views on the topic, but to discuss your views compared to their own, in a positive or negative way. So to say that you are not interested in what others think of your own views, I think defeats the purpose of the forum. But of course you can disagree with that.

One other thing that stood out for me in your replies was your ideas on art. I confess that I am not entirely aware whether you are an artist or like to create art of your own, but I find it strange that you would imply that art can exist devoid of all/any emotion. I have to disagree.

"...Regarding this, I'm not sure from what basis you derive this assumption. Why does art have to be an expression of emotion at all? While there are admittedly some emotional arts, such as love songs and etcetera, art is an expression of creativity more than emotion. I don't have to be sad or mad or happy or angry to create an amazing painting. I only need an idea, the skill to convey that idea, and the medium to convey it on. It's my belief that the idea is the most important, stemming from your creative faculties rather than your emotional ones.

Frogza: I am a profesional artist and a very creative person, even by artists standards. My self mastery doesn't keep me from being creative and enjoying art and the many beautiful things in the world, I believe it helps me. I don't have to sit around waiting for my environment to generate an emotion in me to capture a mood in my paintings."

Emotions aren't only those simple notions that you have captured in the words "happy" or "sad" or "angry". Art does not derive, IMO, from a rational objective. Maybe once you have an idea, it can become an objective/goal, because it will then begin to take on a physical form, through matter or sound or expression (theatre). But art does not arise from being hungry, or being sick, or any practical need. You do need creativity to come up with a piece of artwork. But creativity is fuelled by something other, by an emotion that drives you to want to create. In a sense it is a need of the soul, of the heart, of passion for an objective. Even artists who create the most emotionally devoid works, create those works to elicit an emotion from a viewer, a response. And those who do not create for the viewer, often create from a need to expell their own emotions in a means that will come as close as possible to effectively describing what they are feeling about themselves/others/any given subject.

I understand what Frogza is saying when he mentions that he does not need his environment to provoke an emotion in him to create. I'm not saying that driving force has to come from the environment. Sometimes it's all inside you. I do think that to create a given mood, you have to understand that mood and "know" it. If you don't know it, you may be able to create an artificial and even effective impression of that, but not more.

But anyway, this is possibly thread hijacking - but maybe an interesting topic for a separate thread.

And finally, to address what you are indeed asking of other posters in this thread:

I believe I have enough mental self-control. I try very hard to not react to a given pressing emotional situation with an emotional outburst if I think it will harm me and others in the process, irrevocably. Sometimes though it's good to scream and let it all out. It's really great. And I also think that most people have a lot less self-control than I do - so I think it's ok to let that control go sometimes and let them have it, when they deserve it.
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Old 05-22-2006, 10:07 AM   #26 (permalink)
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For me it really depends on the situation or event. In my professional life I have never lost it, well once, when I was younger. Occasionally I have seen my boss blow up, and even a few times at me. Truth is I find it sort of childish. At work I am very discipline, expect for all the time that I spend at my pooter not doing work related stuff. I use a different set of language skills, and do pretty much everything by the book.

I might piss some people off here, but I think that religion is a weakness of mental control. As a atheist I feel I have a pretty good handle on this. I find the appeal of God and Heaven very attractive, but I know what is real and what is fake and I won’t give in to it. It’s hard sometimes, but I just have to rationalize things then I am okay.

With women I have little mental control. I just cant help it. I let my emotions dictate my feelings. Its easy for me to fall for a girl and hard for me to get over one that I really like. I don’t know what power women have on me. I try every thing to convince myself one way, but I just feel as if I am lying to myself.

With my children, I don’t loose it not very much, but wish I never lost it with them. They can be the masters of the art of button pushing. I have said things in the past that I regret. I’m sure they don’t remember now, but I do. If I want to improve on anything, its in this area. I love them so much, and only want them to have great memories of me.
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Old 05-22-2006, 08:52 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JinnKai
This is apparent, and has been discussed at length. I realize that certain users of this board consider me to be lacking in self-control, and its very likely that I'll never convince them otherwise, short of meeting them in person. I'm okay with that, but I'd like to avoid continously defending against other poster's PERCEPTIONS of my control level. I'd perhaps like others to analyze their own self-control and provide insight into (a) whether they consider themselves controlled, and (b) if they're interested in increasing or decreasing that control and why.
Fair enough.

My outlook is different only in that I view others' perceptions to be more relevant than my own in these types of things, as self-perception is almost never quite in line with what others see. One with great self-control would, in theory at least, give the perception to others of having said control.

No offense intended in the earlier post; just being candid is all.
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Old 05-22-2006, 11:14 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I am in control, and yet, not in control. I blame, or explain, a lot of me now by my past, as I believe how you were raised affects you now. By denying your past had a part in your present, you're saying that there is no such thing as environmental effects.

That's not to say one should dwell, and I do tend to do a lot of that. I suffer from a lack of self-esteem (which leads to things like eating disorders), BUT I am in control of that.

All that being said- I have very little control of my feelings, but I do have more control than say, the husband screaming at his wife or the psycho that shoots up an entire school. Not saying much, eh?

Last edited by la petite moi; 05-22-2006 at 11:17 PM..
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Old 06-14-2006, 08:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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How much mental control do you have?

Mmmm. It's hard to say, as this is a somewhat vague question. I'm an emotional person and don't really seek to control my emotions so much as control my actions to the degree that they are appropriate to the situation. A few days ago a guy took a picture of me without asking first which brought on a flood of nearly overwhelming emotions, but I did manage to control my actions well enough not to make the situation worse than it already was. The boy in question had no way of knowing I have a phobia regarding having my picture taken, though it was a bit rude of him to have taken me by surprise rather than asking. I removed myself from the situation, and sought the nearest source of help to help me deal with how I was feeling. Did I control my feelings? No, and I don't really want to do that, as "control" in my experience has always meant "repress", which has never been good for me. I did control my actions, though, which is more important.

And how important is it to you?

Controlling my actions is important to me. So is accepting my feelings for what they are rather than trying to repress genuine reactions. I'm much more successful at the former than the latter.

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