Help me convince T-Mobile...

[Sultana]

To try to make a long story short, I have a 2,500-minute family cell phone plane (for 3 people) with T-Mobile, nearing the end of a 2-yr contract. On last month's bill I saw a recurring number (incoming and outgoing calls) on my sister's phone that used up 2,120 of our minutes (I saw this just after my sister's purse was stolen, I was calling to disconnect service to her line). We didn't know this happened until we got the bill, and so between the 3 of us we used up many more than our alloted minutes, to the tune of $300-ish.

My sister swears up and down she didn't call that number, she doesn't know it at all, and I believe her. She's a single mom with 3 small kids, works full time, and can't even have her phone on during work hours (she works full-time). We haven't gone over our minutes in a very long time, it just doesn't make sense.

I contacted T-Mobile that very hour, and was told that a billing dispute was filed for me, and that I'd get an email within 3 business days telling me what they were going to do about it. I never was contacted, and in the meantime my bill went overdue. I waited a full week, and then contacted them again. Was basically told that they didn't consider it a viable dispute, so no action was taken, not even to tell me that! After a bit more stupid run-around, I *finally* spoke to a CS "manager" who basically told me that because they can id the serial number of the phone my sister uses to those calls, they weren't going to credit my account.

Now, I know somehow someone was using her line...I know those calls were attributed to her phone, that's why they are on her part of the bill! I don't know how that can happen, but it did.

I am pissed off at T-Mobile's CS, and I *don't* want to shell out a couple hundred $ because some low-level dunderhead can't see that I've been scammed (that number has never appeared on my bills, we've never gone over, this is all very unusual activity, etc.). They keep saying, "We can't pull up more than two month's worth of activity on our computer systems, so we don't know if this number's been in use for your account before that." Hello, it's not my fault they have a bad system!

My sister called the number, it's a Sprint carrier and has been temporarily disconnected...

I have to get this resolved ASAP. Any ideas or input would be greatly appreciated.

[SirLance]

First, you must put your dispute in writing and mail it (certified) to the billing inquiries address on your statement. This protects your rights. Phone calls and emails do not.

From the point at which they receive your dispute, they must acknowledge it in writing and they must investigate it and report the results, also in writing.

If they determine that the disputed amount is legitimate, they can take action to collect it, but they have to tell you in writing why they think your dispute has no basis.

Basically, if they can prove the calls were made from her phone, then they are legitimate. You have a responsibility to control your own stuff. Since the phone has been stolen, and they have been notified, no charges after the theft should hit your bill.

[analog]

You didn't know her phone was stolen until you got the bill?

You can't wait until the bill comes to report the phone as lost or stolen. You can't call well after the fact and say "oh that wasn't ours, the phone was stolen then"- it doesn't work that way, never has, and rightfully shouldn't.

Just be glad it's only $300, i've seen way worse.

[AngelicVampire]

Have to agree here, life sucks but if you didn't report the phone as stolen/report the loss as soon as possible then they aren't going to cover you because someone made the calls and it wasn't missing at the time so they get their money either way. If they did allow this the number of people who would "lose" their phones if they had a high bill would be silly... unfortunately my ex-flatmate tried to pull something similar (he was mugged, ran up a huge bill then tried to report the phone lost in the past, they said similar to yours but he was scamming).

I hate phone companies, I sent Vodafone a cancellation letter, they didn't recieve it then billed me for an extra 2 months... the contract doesn't say they have to recieve the cancellation merely that I have to mail it.

[Sultana]

Originally Posted by Sultana

I saw this just after my sister's purse was stolen, I was calling to disconnect service to her line

I had service disconnected to her phone less than 30 minutes after her purse was stolen. Which happened to be the day I got the previous month's bill and saw these calls/charges. So I was dealing with both issues during the same call to Customer Service.

[jwoody]

In your situation I would:

1) Call other phone companys, explain your situaton and that you'd like to like to switch as painlessly as possible.

2) Haggle with them until you get lots of discounts and free stuff.

3) Get the name of the person you spoke to and write down what you've been offered.

4) Call T-Mobile and tell them you're cancelling because you don't like their attitude and you've found a better deal elsewhere.

5) Improvise from there.

[Xazy]

Originally Posted by AngelicVampire

I hate phone companies, I sent Vodafone a cancellation letter, they didn't recieve it then billed me for an extra 2 months... the contract doesn't say they have to recieve the cancellation merely that I have to mail it.

Send the letter via certified mail; they cannot contest if they received it then.

I would also call the better business bureau, and after that contact your credit agencies, or get ready to in case they put in a claim that you are late on your payments.

[Sultana]

jwoody, I like the way you think!

[AngelicVampire]

I was never late on payments... my rent bounces every month for some unknown reason but phone companies have no problem taking money... I eventaully managed to get 2 months credit out of them .

Originally Posted by Sultana

I had service disconnected to her phone less than 30 minutes after her purse was stolen. Which happened to be the day I got the previous month's bill and saw these calls/charges. So I was dealing with both issues during the same call to Customer Service.

I am confused, the charges were run up the month prior to the theft of the phone?

The best thing to do is sit and hassle them, they want your custom and they want it for the forseeable future. So they are likely to bend to your will at least somewhat. Its the reason I change companies every year, they keep trying to fight for my custom (rather than keeping an existing happy customer) for some reason... stick with it and they will bend or break!

[thingstodo]

When you dispute something in writing it usually buys you 60 days. And when you send the letter certified it gets the attention of higher level people.

Since you didn't previously do this, I have a suggestion for you. Write a letter to the BBB just like it is one you plan to send them to explain why you are upset. Then, send a letter to the president's office of T-Mobile saying that you plan to send the attached letter to the BBB unless they work sincerely with you to resolve the issue. Specify that uou are giving them 10 days from reciept of the letter to respond. Then worst case you've done about all that you can.

It sounds like the calls were made from the phone and that it was still in your possesion when the calls were made. That makes it tough to deny unless there was a way someone could scam your phone. Also, I would send a certified letter to the company that had the original phone number to complain. Sometimes all this due dilligence pays off. Good luck...

[f6twister]

Did your sister report the purse as stolen to the police? If so, obtain a copy of the report which should state the date and time of the theft. That should be your proof to T-Mobile that the phone was not under the control of an authorized user. It may help get the charges removed.

[tooth]

I'm confused. Were these calls made before or after the theft?

[Sultana]

I'm sorry, it seems I'm not being clear enough.

The issue has nothing to do with the phone being stolen. It's just that the phone being stolen, and my immediate, subsequent action brought the fraudulent calls (made before the phone was stolen) to my attention.

It's the fraudulent call's charges I am trying to resolve. I had the phone's service was cancelled within 30 minutes of it being stolen. So no phone calls could have been made at that point. So no charges were incurred after it was stolen.

I've talked to T-Mobile again (rather, the hub did). We got yet another story, that the dispute is still being reviewed. Completely, 100% opposite of what I was told last time. They are still refusing to provide documentation for anything we are being told for any of the phone calls--wait, we did get a case number or something like that...so that's helpful. But still, it's extremely aggrevating how we get a completely different song and dance every time.
Will be calling back today.

[alinn]

4) Call T-Mobile and tell them you're cancelling because you don't like their attitude and you've found a better deal elsewhere.

I think you'll find you can get a lot of mileage out of this one. Company's want to make it difficult to get your money back, but not so hard that they would lose you and your family as customers. Hope you can get this resolved...and good luck

[Sage]

Yeah, if you call them ask for the retentions department. Those are the people who are responsible for keeping customers. They'll dance with you, for sure, so be prepared to spend a while on the phone, but don't back down and keep waffeling until you get what you want. They can give you as much or as little service as you're prepared to settle for, so don't settle!

Oh, and about all the legal stuff- I liked the idea of sending letters to the BBB and the higher ups within the company. You didn't make the calls, there's NO REASON you have to pay the bill- NO REASON AT ALL. Don't listen to anyone who tells you different! Keep pushing and pushing until you get them to do what you want. You're the customer, they need your money to stay in buisness. Make them earn it.

Oh, and PS- Martel said this to me in response to when I was talking with Sprint, renegotiating my contract- Make sure you get your time's worth for this. If you've spent six hours total working on all this stuff (getting fraudulent charges removed, etc) and you'd make $400 if you spent six hours bellydancing... well then, your new contract with them should reflect that. You are important and your time is money- make sure you get "paid" for the time you spent dealing with them!

[The_Jazz]

The problem may already be solved, but I saw this article in today's Chicago Tribune and thought that it was pretty relavent to this specific situation as well as anyone else that has to go through a customer service department that's being uncooperative.

Mary Schmich

No complain, no gain: Tales from readers


Published March 1, 2006


`My friends also call me the Complaint King," wrote Robb S. of Chicago after last week's column about a guy who's expert at scoring goodies as redress for his consumer woes.

He was one of many readers who responded with their own complaint tales and tips. Here are just a few, slightly edited.

"Some of my favorite victories," he went on, "were:

"The [bath-and-body-store] clerks I overheard that whispered that they hated all the `fags' that come into their store. I was the only customer, so it was definitely me they were referring to. I made certain to read their little nametags, find their regional supervisor online, and I received a $100 gift certificate for the humiliation.

"Number two, the girl at a downtown [fast food restaurant] who, right in the middle of my order stated, `I gotta pee' and just walked away from the register. I ate a LOT free for the next year."

Chuck H. of Chicago sent a Lily Tomlin quote: "I am thoroughly convinced that language evolved out of man's basic need to complain."

I would say all languages but French--which evolved out of man's need to find a more romantic way to say, "I gotta pee."

"As a former employee of a customer service call center," wrote Elliot of Chicago, "I took about 80 calls a day, which made my throat sore and my ear sorer. My advice for calling customer service: 1. Don't be a jerk. 2. Speaking with a supervisor is possible. 3. If the person has been truly helpful (and it does happen), let them know. It will make their day."

Bill M. of Chicago, whose "friendly-but-firm" complaints have netted store credits, refunds and an air conditioner, added this tip: "Documentation!"

Documentation may be notes of phone calls, photos of an offending item--or Charles B.'s unlikely ammunition.

"While driving to work one very snowy day, I was stopped and ticketed for running a red light," he wrote. "Choosing to appear in court to appeal, I showed the judge a copy of the Tribune showing what a horrible driving day it had been. She dismissed my case."

And who says the paper's not worth 50 cents?

"Some years ago," wrote Glenn M., "I was invited to purchase a six-pack of Canadian Ace beer by a very sexy lady manning an in-store display. At home, I decided to have a can. These were among the first flip-top cans and I cut my finger on a sharp edge. I put on a Band-Aid, drank the beer and decided to write a letter to the company. I did, enclosing the paper wrapping of the Band-Aid.

"A few days later, a small truck delivered two cases of beer from Canadian Ace along with their apologies. I took one case over to my brother's house. We weren't surprised to find that the cans didn't have a tab-top, but we certainly were distressed not to be able to find a beer can opener. We ended up cutting the top off the can with a can opener. Moral: Don't wish too hard--you might get what you wish for."

A Band-Aid wrapper? That's documentation.

And from Jeanne W. of Evanston: "I am a mostly ineffectual yet heedless complainer. Last summer, I did bargain $170 off the price of radiator-valve repairs after the workman stepped into a large, fresh pile of dog poop and duly tracked it all over my rugs. Encouraged by this success, I brought renewed vigor to my next complaint.

"When our old refrigerator died, we ordered a new one online. Between the GE people and the Home Depot people, our order got lost in cyberspace and the refrigerator never came.

"After a good round of back-and-forth on the phone, I was finally put in touch with a sympathetic Home Depot rep and told her about the hardship of having three children to feed and no fresh milk in the house.

"`I know just how you feel, honey,' she replied in soft southern tones. `I'm here at the headquarters, in Baton Rouge, and I still haven't got my electricity back after Katrina hit.' Needless to say, that shut me up."

Thanks to all of you who wrote.

[Sultana]

I do appreciate you guys adding to this.

We have decided to pay enough to keep our service on ($700+), but to continue to try to get a hold of the corporate office. I depend on the cell for business calls, and I just cannot be without it.

I'm frustrated and weary. They say they can track more than one way to say the calls came from and to that phone. All I have is 3 or 4 years of customer history to show that this number has never come up in any way before during all that time, and that this event is completely atypical of my entire history with them. That's not enough for customer service. They offered to take $10 off my bill. Insulting.

So now I gotta try to figure out how to go about talking to someone with initiative, intelligence, and the desire and authority to help me at the Corporate office. Frankly, I'm not hopeful, in fact I'm pretty darn discouraged.

But once again, I really do appreciate the input from folks here! Thank you!

[Martian]

If you pay, you won't see your money again. Paying the bill is as good as an admission.

If you want to dispute this, you need to be tough as nails. You have to be ready to do without their service, for one. You may lose it. You may not get it back. These people will play hardball here; it's what they're paid to do and this is their game you're playing. If you want to get anywhere you have to be able to stand up to them, which means you have to be ready to walk if it comes to that and you have to be prepared for the possibility that they'll do the same.

You also need to document everything. If it's not on paper, it doesn't exist. This includes but is not limited to notes taken during every phone conversation, copies of any and all written correspondence (sent certified because then you know when it was received) and any and all relevant bill statements.

Don't get too upset at the reps. You have to remember two things when you call. The first is that the person you're talking to is not T-Mobile. That person did not bill you and doesn't get your $300. They're an employee of the company (might even be contracted) and are just doing their job.

The other thing to remember is that these people most definitely take a guilty until proven innocent approach to disputes. They see many calls every day from people looking for a way to scam the system or get free stuff. You'd be surprised how often people call in just looking for a discount. The fabrications that these people make up are sometimes absurd, but it can also be heard to seperate a legitimate dispute from all the bullshit.

So keep your cool. Calm but firm is what will get your voice heard.

Having said all that, before continuing the dispute I would suggest you take a good look at your sister's phone usage. Cellular phones carry a unique identifier (it's called an electronic serial number or ESN) that allows the cellular carrier to identify them. This is necessary, since the carrier has to know which phones are where in order to know how to route calls. A side effect of that is that it's very difficult to scam the system in the way that you're describing. In order for someone to make calls to be attributed to your sister's bill without using her phone itself, that someone would have to figure out a way to spoof the ESN and would also need your sister's number. In the even that the individual did spoof the ESN, the phone company techs would know when looking at their records, because it would be registered in two seperate cells. I don't know if it's possible to spoof an ESN and I don't know what sort of counter-measures the carriers have in place in the event of two identical ESN's; but the whole thing would seem to suggest that either someone went to a lot of trouble to make calls on your dime, or that your sister's phone was actually used for the calls (in which case you're responsible for them).

I'm not saying your sister's lying, understand. But she is a single mother. It's not inconceivable that one of the kids got into trouble. Look inside before you look outside.

[Crack]

just remember when you are talking to them, that YOU are the customer. They are there to provide you a service, if you don't like the service they are providing, look at what Martian said. He speaks the truth.