cheerycheeks

Hey Ladies,

Here's my problem and hopefully you can help:

My boyfriend and I have recently broken up, but are trying to give it another try. There are a lot of things about each other that we really like, but both have some insecurities of our own that pull us apart. He tells me I am his best friend. I know he feels more comfortable with me than anyone else. I know he can talk to me about more than with anyone else. I know he considers me his best friend, but I still have a problem.

My issue is that I am jealous of his relationship with his "best friend"(same title, i know), Beth. They have been friends for 6 years beginning in high school and have wanted to date several times, but it has never worked out for them to date because of other circumstances (location, dating other people, whatever). I know way too much about this girl. I know all of the feelings he's had for her, how much he wanted to date her, and how much he really liked(s) her. She is his “what-if” girl.

He had not seen her in 2 years because he was too far away, but saw her two weekends ago since he lives closer to her now. His parents live in the same town she does now and so when he goes to see his parents, he goes to see her too. He tells me there is nothing going on and I know he is telling me the truth, at least phsyically, I know there is nothing going on between them. When he was staying at her apartment she said he could sleep in the bed with him but "no touching" so just as friends. My boyfriend didn't accept the offer, but she just seems more than friendly to me and it's really hard for me to handle. They went clubbing while he was visiting her and were freak dancing and getting drunk, which would be okay if she really was nothing more than a typical friend, but the thought of him pressing and rubbing against his "just my friend but I've always liked her and wonder about her" is just too much for me. He said they were not dancing really sexually, that he wouldn’t be comfortable dancing like that with someone other than me, so I guess that’s a comfort.

I have written Beth via email in an attempt to be friends with her saying that instead of me making her and my bf's relationship complicated, i would like to appreciate her and see her for who she is and be friendly with each other, even if it’s just something small. That I would like to get to know her because she is very important in my bf's life and I would like to get to know her. Beth took a week to respond with, "i'll get back to you later" saying she was really busy with work (she has time to talk to my bf online for hours, but can’t take 10 minutes to email me?- my bf says that she didn't know how to repond...i cant imagine it being that hard), and it has been over a month and i haven't heard anything else from her. My bf swears that she is such a nice person, but i can't help but feel like something is going on here, at least from her side.

My bf says that he wonders about her, but as we get happier together, he wonders about her less. My bf and i are going to his parent’s house this weekend and i'm thankful he hasn't made plans to see her. I had wanted to meet her a while ago, but have lost the passion to since she can't be bothered to respond to my letter. What else can i do to help myself believe him? what should i do about her not responding to my email? i feel like i opened my arms to her and she turned and walked away. If there is anyway i could be friends with her, i would like to be, but i can't be friends with someone like that. My bf knows my best friends, but i dont know her. If she's so important to him and i'm important too, why shouldn't her and I be friends? It's like she's hiding from me, maybe he's letting her hide from me, and I dont know what to think about it.

My bf and Beth talk for hours a day online and on the phone. She drunk dials him (even though i've been told this means nothing), but it just seems not just friendly. We have communicated and argued and we both know each other's side to all of this: I want him to back down a little in his friendship with her, but he feels like he shouldn’t have to. He swears his relationship with her is innocent. He says that he doesn't want to change his relationship with Beth and that if i can't handle it, we should break up, but i feel like he needs to do a little for me too. He swears they are doing nothing wrong, so I think, is it me? Am i just completely overreacting and not being supportive enough? Do i need to just accept it?

When my bf and i were broken up, I told him to go date her, to go figure it out with her, to go see if that's what he wants, but he didn't because he wanted me back. So, this maybe should show me that he does want me more, but she had just broken up with her serious bf and i'm not sure he was confident enough to go try with her because he didn't know what her reaction would be and didn't want to be rejected by her. I also know he was heartbroken about me and i'm sure he wasn't ready to go jump into something serious. I’m not really sure about that, just some thoughts. Well actually, I’m not sure about any of this. Hopefully you all can help me get it figured out!

Your thoughts would be appreciated!
Cheery

Sultana

I have to say I think it sounds like more than *just friends* feelings. The fact that they spend hours every single day communicating to each other, yet she can't invest any time in communicating with you is the big flag for me (by the way, what did your bf say about that?).

I've kinda sorta been in this situation too, as far as being the "beth" (a male's non-romantic friend), and I have *always* been sure to invest myself in my friend's SOs. It's not a problem, because they are just my friends, but as such if someone is important to them, than that person is important to me. I have a hard time believing it is "just friends", at least on her side, and yet she won't make the effort to get to know you. I can't believe she's such a big part of your bf's life, and you haven't even met her?? Wow.

I'm not saying they're fooling around or anything, but according to this (and of course I'm aware this is only one side of the coin), I can see how you'd be very uncomfortable with the situation. I would be too, and I am not a jealous person.

Good luck, and please feel free to keep us updated on the situation.

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"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

cheerycheeks

About her not communicating back with me, he said that he is disappointed that she hasn't and that she hasn't because she doesn't know what to say. I haven't met her yet because we live hours away and i currently dont have a car, so he either goes to see his parents and her or me and i have been unable to meet up with them.

Also, when he did go see her a few weekends ago, he wasn't feeling confident about us and so in turn neither was I. He couldn't tell me that i had nothing to worry about with her, so of course i was beside myself with worry. I did make the mistake of calling him the night he was out with her and he wasn't very happy with me. We are past the point of blaming eachother for the way we acted a few weekends ago, we both screwed up and we both know that. We both should've acted differently, but we didn't. Now I'm trying ot deal with my insecurities with this (him having a close friend of the opposite sex who has no interest in me). I was just hoping for some good advice with how to move on with this while still keeping him. He's a great guy, i would hate for this to be the thing that ends it. He's not cheating, he always tells me the truth. Yes, he's not completley blameless, but at the same time, I'm not making this any easier either. advice please!

thanks, Cheery

Sultana

Bogus!

Yes, I am a child of the 80's.

That is such a cop out, I'm surprised he can even say it. He's disappointed, and yet he continues along the same path with her, hmm? I know if I'm disappointed in people, I tend to not spend time with them. That's me, though.

May I ask the age ranges of those involved?

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

cheerycheeks

He says he doesn't want to tell her he's disappointed because then her reply to me might not be sincere. I am almost 20, he's 22, and she's 23-24(i'm not sure).

Sultana

Honestly, sounds to me like he's enabling the situation, maybe even encouraging it.

Of course you should get more input than just mine, but I would agree with you, it doesn't sound to me like you are over-reacting.

By the way, that's a control thing--discounting your feelings, making *you* feel like *you're* doing something inappropriate. Well fine then. You're crazy. Do you want to be in a situation where "you're the crazy one", long-term? Of course not. Either way, if something doesn't change, you're not happy.

__________________
"Love is a snowmobile racing across the tundra and then suddenly it flips over, pinning you underneath.
At night, the ice weasels come." -

Matt Groening

My goal? To fulfill my potential.

cheerycheeks

Thanks for your comments Sultana. I definitely dont want to be "the crazy one", but in his defense, he has taken a lot of blame for making me feel uncomfortable the other weekend...and hey! maybe i am crazy!

*Nikki*

Sounds to me like he is enjoying being the center of attention from two women. I would HIGHLY suspect he is/was up to something.

Sage

Let's review the facts as I see them (Ladies, perhaps you can also agree)

1- Men like women
2- your boyfriend is a man, therefore he likes women (note the plural)
3- your boyfriend gets to be jiggy with you, but has this woman that he's wanted to be with for SIX YEARS (that's a long time to be blue-balling for someone) that he gets to see frequently, and is unsupervised by you while doing so
4- this woman, who claims to be his friend, won't talk to you & won't make an effort to get to know you (as has been said, any friend of his should be a friend of yours, at least in a civil manner)
5- he seems decidedly passive to the whole thing

No, you're not overreacting, you're right to trust your gut and think something is going on. There is something going on- your boyfriend wants to bang another woman, and not only that, is going to see this other woman while you're not around. It sounds like she wants to bang your boyfriend too.

IT'S NEVER GOOD WHEN YOUR BOYFRIEND WANTS TO SLEEP WITH SOMEONE ELSE!!!

Sit down and talk to your boyfriend. You've already broken up once- there must of been a good reason for it. Move on, find a guy that doesn't have any baggage (especialy not the kind with breasts), and be happy. Let your boyfriend find out "what if" on his own, because it sounds like he's on his way to finding out "what if" with you in tow. and that's BAD.

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shesus

Sultana seems to have given some good advice and insight. I would dump this guy and not look back. It sounds like he wants his cake and eat it too. He has a 'back-uo' girl that he constantly talks to and hasn't been with because of circumstances. I'm guessing they are friends with benefits. You are 20 years old and you don't need to put up with a guy like this. I'd get out before it gets anymore dramatic and confusing. Sorry if this comes across as harsh, but life is too short to be miserable. This relationship is going to get worse, not better. Of course, I'm not a fortune teller. Just from what I have seen in my life, that's the most likely outcome.

They say that you have to work at relationships, but I've been married for almost 5 years and we've been together for 8. It seems that you've been working more at this relationship than any woman should. A good relationship has little drama. The guy you are with should be like your best friend. And while I'm on that...best friends don't hurt each other. It seems to me that he is hurting you pretty badly. Chin up and do what's best for you!

the end of my 2 cents.

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Whatever did happen to your soul?
I heard you sold it

Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

cheerycheeks

Sage, honestly, i really hope you're wrong. I know he's not that much of an ass and dont think that just being naive(the possibility is there, i suppose). He is a nice guy, a good guy, that is not trying to hurt me. He wants to have a relationship with this girl that he has known for years and he wants to be friends with her. although i do wish some things would've been handled differently, i do think their relationship is pretty innocent. i really think a lot of it is how i'm perceiving it...maybe it really isn't as bad as i make it out ot be. however, you could be right, and i will give what you've said some thought.


ohh---i agree this relationship has been too much work. he and i have both agreed on that, but when there's so much potential for something so good that is just mucked up by insecurity, is it really worth letting go? we have so much in common, are great friends, and have such a good time together. He is the kind of man i would marry eventually and he feels the same way about me. he has all the qualities that i want and is the one thing that bothers me really him...or my own insecurity? i dont know the answer.

Sweetpea

the thing that comes to mind is:

you're Worth it to be the only women a guy's spending this amount of time communicating with and spending time with.... Doesn't he have guy buddies he can chill with??

This situation would be a red flag to me and frankly, i wouldn't handle it well either... because well, i'd no longer be with him, he could have his "other best friend" and i'd be onto someone new who would appreciate me better.

i think you deserve more and someone who is Devoted to YOU not 'you and some other woman.'

What you do is your own choice, but know that you are worth more than the way he is treating your relationship right now. Don't let some guy who wants it all waste your time.

Sweetpea

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abaya

Hon, I've been there, and it sucks. You don't deserve this situation, and he doesn't deserve you. Nice and good guys can hurt you even worse than "bad boys" can, because they do it with a big smile and the best intentions.. but they are STILL hurting you. Isn't he hurting you now? That's not cool. He's not mature enough to consider the consequences of his behavior on your emotional state.

The right guy, a TRULY nice and good guy, would do all that he could to avoid hurting you in any way. He would give you a hell of a lot more credit and priority than your bf is giving you.. he would stop and try to help you feel more secure and prioritized.

Your bf's intimacy with this other girl (emotional intimacy is JUST as bad as physical cheating) is very big evidence of his lack of commitment to you. The fact that he would choose her over you says everything. Don't put up with this.. stand up for yourself and kick him to the curb, for good.

Btw, there is a thread in Tilted Living written from a guy's perspective on all this (he sounds a lot like your bf).. you might want to check it out. I think it's titled "Is this cheating" or something.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

little_tippler

Have you read this thread in Tilted Sexuality? The thread's OP is a guy, who is the boyfriend in a similar situation to yours.

I posted in that thread (post #47, page 2) and what I said there is my opinion on this subject, but to save you searching for it, here is an excerpt of what I told this guy whose girlfriend was jealous of his best friend ( a girl who was kind of his "what if" girl too):

" I don't like friends who were exes. If someone wants to dump me for it go ahead. My current SO has a friend who is an ex and he was with her for a year. I trust him when he tells me that he would never do that to me. I have never said to him I don't want you to be friends with her. But it's in my head. I don't like it.
I would be fine if she was a friend and only that. But he had a relationship with her. Luckily for me they are in different countries so I don't have to face it that often.

In your case, you see her often, talk to her all the time, and there is some sexual tension. If you tell your girlfriend that, how do you think she would feel? Maybe you should turn it around and put yourself in her shoes. If she had a male friend who she had dated for a time, and when you saw her together with him everything was all so palsy and touchy and giggly, how would it affect you? (Not assuming that this is what you do, but if you're good friends then you must certainly laugh together, rib each other playfully and act like good friends occasionally, just translating what your GF will see)

I'm not saying she shouldn't accept it. But the fact that even other people who see you together say you look like a cute couple suggests that the way you act together is probably not a "strictly friends" type of situation.

I know this is one of those situations where you feel torn between friends and girlfriend, but if you want to be with her seriously (your GF), then you should think whether you could tone things down with your friend to not cause her distress. Yes it's your friend, that pal for life, I feel the same about my friends. But your girlfriend, if you feel that way about her, could also be for life, your soulmate. Or not. "

I really understand your situation. I don't think you should have to just grin and bear it. You should be able to talk to your BF about anything that's upsetting you, and if he's serious about you, he will try on his part to take your feelings into consideration and maybe change his attitude with his "friend".

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

maleficent

Oh give me a break... :eyeroll:

How woudl you feel if your current SO asked you to not be friends with someone who you were friends with before they ever came into the picture, because of their gender?

I have been "beth" more times than i can count, because i've had more guy friends than female friends, so I am going to refrain from answering this question.

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lurkette

I think he's totally covering his bases. If she was just a friend, I would say swallow the jealousy and move on. But clearly both of them have had romantic feelings that have never um...blossomed, for whatever reason, into a real relationship. I hate "her or me" ultimatums - they seem so insecure and who wants to be on the losing end of that - so I think instead you might want to go back on a break with each other. The whole "if you love something set it free" thing...sounds like right now he has the best of both worlds - a kind, understanding, putting-out girlfriend, and a slutty attention-giving ego-boosting "umfriend". Don't "make" him choose, but don't put your life on hold waiting for him to make up his mind while it's making you miserable.

In a way, you've already done this - while you were broken up, you gave him permission to date her, and he chose you. If you still don't trust him, maybe he's not the guy for you.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

JustJess

Mal - I'd say it's different in your situations, because you have integrity. It sounds to me that this Beth does not have integrity.

He probably is a good guy. As the aphorism goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

But you two have had a rough time lately. You're both feeling insecure. BOTH OF YOU. And for the BF, this other woman is providing an ego boost that he probably desperately needs (not that that's your fault per se). My guess (based on my past experiences) is that they've probably done some making out, but no actual sex. Probably only while you were on a "break".

If this guy is worth salvaging, you need to have a conversation about it, and an honest one. Some key points that I would aim for were I you:
- You understand he can't change the chemistry with her
- You know he's chosen you
- With everything that's happened, you are feeling insecure
- You would never want to define who he can be friends with, of course
- But right now, with all that's happened, a compromise is needed - perhaps he would consider reducing some of his phone time, and try not to spend time alone with her without you BECAUSE:
- You trust him, but you can't trust her. The fact that she isn't willing to talk to or meet you says her intentions are far from pure. She thinks the BF is hers, he's always been in the past, so she isn't going to make nice with you. You can't trust HER. Try to explain that from YOUR perspective, this is how the situation appears. Try to illustrate that he wouldn't like it if it were him.

If he can't see it from your perspective, if he's not willing to take a little break from her (not that you're expecting him to give up a friendship by any stretch), if he can't see that Beth's actions are damaging your relationship...

Then walk away. He doesn't want to see it, no matter how good he is. That may be the only time he'll figure it out... or he won't, and you're BETTER OFF.

From your OP, you sound far more mature in this relationship than the average 19 year old (no offense to our younger members, of course). It appears you have an understanding of what a relationship can and should be for you.

Don't accept less.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

maleficent

Perhaps.. I just don't have a lot of patience when it comes to jealousy... With all the self esteem issues that i have - I know that jealousy comes from lack of self esteem.

It really comes down to one thing... You can either trust him or you can't. Don't think for one moment that you can change him... or her for that matter.

Listen to your instincts about him.. you broke up with him once... has the situation changed any?

__________________

maleficent

The boyfriend responds:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...0&postcount=60

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JustJess

Just a note:
I would have appreciated knowing that this other thread was the BF in question. It adds some important insight to both sides, and seems disingenuous to not mention it.

I'd say that jealousy is not a good thing - most of the time, it's the jealous person's issue, not their partner's. However, I believe that some people have solid instincts. Quad has been jealous occasionally in our past... and he was right.
Do you have solid instincts? Beats me.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

little_tippler

damn, I really missed something there...so this is actually the same couple as in that other thread....ops. I think it's the names that got me!

I just want to say, that I understand both points of view. Your BF doesn't want to compromise in relation to a friend, a good friend, and that's understandable. And on the other hand it's not fair to you either as you sense there is more than "just friends" feelings. Is it fair to suspect him if he hasn't done anything? No. Is it fair to feel uneasy about the situation anyway? Yes, of course, you're only human. You already compromise in the sense that you refrain from being upset at the situation and try to ignore his friend that is upsetting you. But quite clearly, you can't just ignore it, and that's fair also. You are the way you are. Everyone can tell you what you should feel and that you should just get on with things and he can have his female friends and it's not your business. But only you know how it affects you and whether you can deal with it alone or whether you need to tell your BF and ask him to understand. Your BF replied in the other thread saying he didn't think he should have to compromise.

But you know what? Relationships are all about compromise and doing the best thing for the relationship - not just yourself. He has given you no reason to distrust him, but it still upsets you. Like girls say sometimes, "I trust you, I just don't trust HER". Not saying, either, that his friend is trying to do anything. But it's at the back of your mind.

If something upsets you, either you can try to make it go away yourself, or if it bothers you so much that you can't, you need him to help you. If something upsets you, he can either ignore that and continue as always, which to me seems selfish. Ok, it doesn't bother him, but it bothers you right? So... he could compromise a little. The sticky question is how.

This is a sticky situation. Your BF says that his friend is almost his only good friend he talks to regularly at the moment - besides yourself. I don't know what you could do that would make you both happy. I do think though that it's a great sign that you're both so concerned about the issue that you will talk to each other, write here and expose your innermost feelings, and really think hard about how you can help each other. I'm sure you can find a way to sort this out if you're this committed.

By the way, I don't think either of you are wrong/bad in this situation. But there is a conflict in your separate opinions, and it's not just going to go away. One or both of you has to give way somehow. I hope you find the best way to stay together.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Sweetpea

I would respect his wishes and understand why he wouldn't want me to have a guy as my best friend... firstly, because he is already my best friend.. also... in my experience... guys and girls don't often make good friends without one trying to fuck teh other... all the guys i've been friends with had other motives (ding ding ding, they wanted to get into my pants) and i had to ditch them... So, yes, i find that having another Guy as my best friend, would be a problem considering my previous experiences. Which is why i have girls as good friends.

Mal, the Only thing i can Do is Speak from my own personal experience...

I am Not saying that isn't the case for other people, that they can have opposite gender friends, be married/committed and be totally fine with it and it's no problem at all... i was merely giving my own perspective from what My life has been like...
Sweetpea

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cheerycheeks

I've been on vacation so I haven't been on here, i'm sorry for leaving in the middle of this! I didn't post about my bf's thread because i was looking for advice on how to deal with being jealous because of his friend, not if we should end the relationship. I wasn't asking if i should break up with him. I didn't want that to happen. in my second post, i said, "I was just hoping for some good advice with how to move on with this (situation with him and her and my jealousy) while still keeping him" and that's really all i wanted from you ladies: How i can not be so jealous. Thank you if you did answer that and thanks for the other posts, too. I wasn't clear enough with my reason for posting. I did ask the questions in the first post that prompted your responses about their relationship, but really i was looking for advice on how to deal.

Eowyn_Vala

I have been in a similar situation. The difference was that the friend and I used to be friends as well. In my situation I was uncomfortable and jealous (I still am a bit) due to the fact my husband was still friends with her. Most of that stemmed from how she treated me and how things ended there. The other part of that is due to the fact that she always used my husband (boyfriend at the time we were all in college) as her fall-back when she need male attention. She was never content to have only one guys attention and it always seemed to me like she wanted more than just friendship with my husband. This makes me uncomfortable when I know she is going to be around him.

I trust him and know nothing would ever happen. Because of this I deal with the feelings of jealousy towards her. I won't ask him to not be friends with her just to appease me. It's crossed my mind a few times especially right before we got married. My husband has also listened to me and we have discussed both of our feelings on the issue. We were able to compromise. Like little_tippler said, relationships are all about compromise. I hope you finally come to a decision.

To me is seems like you need to decide if his friendship with "Beth" is something you might eventually come to deal with or not. If you won't ever be able to deal with this friendship, and if he can't compromise either to try to make you a bit more comfortable, then maybe you should move on to someone who can be with you. I'm not saying he has to give up his friendship but I do think he should be making more of an effort to work things out between the two of you.

It also sounds like he is trying to keep his options open with his friend in case she does turn into something more than a friend. This thought was due to his remark of her being a "back up." If you are in a relationship you want to work, you shouldn't have a "back up."

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Impetuous1

I've been in a similar situation. My old boyfriend had a "internet friend" who he would talk with several hours a day (especially in the evening when I was in bed). He swore up and down nothing was going on. But at the same time, whenever I came up on him while he was talking to her, he would shut down the window. This of course got me wondering. I'm not proud of what I did next. I broke into his computer and looked at their chatlogs and his email. Let's just say I was right to worry. I don't think the jealousy your feeling is a problem. It's a warning. To be repetitive, you need to really sit down and talk with him. Make sure he understands not only your feelings, but the reason behind them. If he doesn't listen, or is unwilling to compromise, walk away. The fact that he told you all about her in glowing terms and does not seem that determined to bring you together to meet, that he stayed over at her house on a day you were feeling unsecure, and that he made sure you knew that he always wanted to have a relationship with her are not good. It sounds like he's confused about what he wants. It's not your responsibility to help him figure that out. Do you want kids, marriage? How long are you willing to wait? With a guy like this, you might be waiting a very long time if ever. Especially if he's going to run crying to her and her all too open arms anytime you have problems.

genuinegirly

The best way to deal with jealousy is to get to know the person better that is causing it. As you understand and grow to love the person, the jealousy should start to die down. It's a difficult thing. Give it time and have a few girl's day out events with just the two of you. Also good to invite her along to things with the bf, s you can see their interactions and understand the differences between your relationship and the friendship he has with this other girl.

If he really won't give you the option of meeting her, I have no good advice, other than to convince him that it is important to you. Make sure you tell him how you are jealous and that you don't know how to deal with it.

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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy