match000

Hi everyone,

I've met this group of 8 girls who are here in California as summer ESL students and will return to Asia afterwards. Well, initially the fugly one (who is the dominant, unquestionable leader of the group) was really nice to me and I thought she was just being friendly.

So I am nice to her in the hopes that she can continue to be a bridge to 2 cute girls in the group I want to ask out, but after a few more dinners with the whole group I realize that I have been "Claimed" by the fugly girl as the cute girls I want to hit on become all quiet when fugly's around, but are somewhat interested when I talk to them when she's not around.

I tried to sit with the one I like, but she told me to "go to the other end of the table." I was like "why?". And she was like "That's where you are supposed to sit." And yeah, it was a setup. I always must sit beside/across from fugly whenever I hang out with the group.

I now regret setting up the next few social activities with the group. I set them up in the hopes that I could talk to the cute girls I like, but instead it looks like I am stuck with fugly the whole way through!!

I have *very little* girl experience (even talking!) in my life, so I welcomed this opportunity to practice. Now it's driving me up the wazooo. The fugly girl has disallowed all the other girls from hitting on me.

So I come upon two choices:

1) Hit on cute girl I like, asking her to singly go out with me. This is highly likely to fail as she will be outcasted from the group by the fugly one and will experience hostility for the rest of her time here (10 days left only!). And well, she'd probably rather not make an enemy out of her floormates! None of them knew each other before their ESL group-tour, though.

Plus, shit blows up, and I'd rather not leave the girls with a bad impression/experience.

2) Finish off the next few events planned. Endure torture of fugly girl while not being able to talk to the cute girls I like. I do get some practice though, but I'd rather not have to look at fugly so much. And it's not much practice since I'm not attracted to her at all, of course.

I don't mean to sound mean, but this is not to her face and she will never know about this post.

What do you say? Suggestions?

Thanks for your time,
Troubled troubled guy

tecoyah

Fugly.......as in Fucking Ugly?

Take advantage of the "Practice"...you could use it.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

match000

Ok. I realize I've come off sounding like a real jerk. I didn't mean to. Just being straight up with you all. Which guys wouldn't refer to a fugly girl as fugly...

Sorry for any offense!

Cynthetiq

tell the ones you are not intersted in flat out that you aren't interested, tell those that you are, you are.

Let the chips fall where they will, otherwise you will wax nostalgic evermore of what "could have been" instead of "what happened"

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

healer

If there was only a way to get the rest of the group to turn on Fugly...then you'd be free to focus your attentions on all the other, less fugly ones

If it were me, I'd prolly go for broke. Let it be known (you don't even have to be subtle about it) that you don't "belong" to anyone and you'll sit wherever you want to and talk to whomever you bloody-well like.

No regrets.

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Martian

I'm with healer. Confidence is key and if you don't got it you can at least try to fake it well. At the next 'event', sit beside the girl you like and if she tells you where you're supposed to sit say something to the effect of 'well, I never had much use for the rules anyway.' Or something wittier, possibly. I got about half an hour's sleep, don't expect much from me right now.

Oh and instead of fugly, try 'girl I'm not interested in'. Part of the equation is confidence, another part is respect.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

pig

The problem is you've got ten days and you're up against territorial issues within the little social group. The first thing you have to decide is whether any stress incurred in this situation is worth the effort. If you decide it is, then go with the advice of the last two posters. It's not up to someone else to decide where you're supposed to sit - certainly not a girl you're not attracted to...who will leave the country in ten (9?) days. If you've already committed to some sort of planned social events, then go to them and do whatever it is that you would like to do while you're there. No reason to overtly rude.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

maleficent

I havent had coffee and the tone of the initial post kinda annoys me -- so

/begin rant

I'm going to speak for some of the 'fugly' girls out there... we need love too... she was nice to you... she gave you an in with the other girls.... and because she's not as cute as the other girls are she gets brushed aside.

Maybe you should consider yourself lucky that one of these people is paying attention to you... and go with that.

These girls are leaving the country in 10 days. What are the odds that you will ever see them again? Since you used the word hit on, it seems your objective is to get laid.. The 'fugly' girl seems to be your best shot... Why not look at what is in front of you...

There's more to women than their looks

/end rant

NOW... if you want to get a girl or even better a woman... Confidence is what will get you there... if you are moving because someone told you to (and they had no other reason other than they wanted you sitting somewhere else)... makes ya little bit whipped and well the attraction factor drops a few notches... You can carry yourself in such a way to say that I am going to sit where I want to sit and don't even bother to ask me to move... (and this can all be done without opening your mouth)

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ShaniFaye

mal....you said what I couldnt seem to say nicely....so thank you

Hopefully the "fugly" girl would have better taste than to really consider laying a person with that kind of attitude. I dont consider myself pretty (mal dont say a word lol) but I seem to have no problem attracting people with my personality and I can spot and reject a "player" from a mile away.

yes Im not being nice, sorry, I find a severe lack of maturity in the way the original post was worded

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Bill O'Rights

Well, as much of an insensitive ass as I was, in my early 20's, (and yes, I'm sorry to admit, that I was a class A jerk at times) I've never once used the term "fugly", when refering to any woman.

Now, that said, be happy than any of them are paying you any attention. I mean, obviously you're not exactly looking for a long term thing here, right? Just go with it, have your fun, and make some fun memories to look back on when you're old...like me.

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

lurkette

Serves you right for using the "fugly" girl to get in good with the ones you were really interested in. Whether the things you expressed above are said to her face or not, do you think she doesn't detect your disappointment that you got "stuck" with her? Do you think she doesn't sense that your interest in her was purely mercenary? Do you think she doesn't feel disapointment that your "niceness" didn't turn into anything else, and maybe even soured at some point? Do you think she doesn't smart at always being the one nobody's interested in? As the "smart girl" (I hope to god I've never been called fugly but I was called a dog plenty back in high school) who's always the sidekick to the hot girl everyone wants, I can tell you: she knows, and it hurts.

__________________
"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Martian

mal, I prefer to think of it this way - everyone has a type and some girls just aren't mine. What I don't consider attractive, some people might think is very attractive. There's no such thing as a 'fugly' girl outside of an individual's perception and the sooner a person realizes that the better off they'll be.

I attribute a great deal of my past and present success with women to the level of respect I show the fairer sex. Mind, I go to the point of being anachronistic (I've been known to open the car door for a girl if she'll let me and if a girl is cold she gets my jacket regardless of whether I'm interested or not) but a certain minimum level is required in my experience.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

tres

Next tie you have to have a buddy take the "fugly" girl so you can get the one you want


btw: My friends and I use "fugly" but only when it is a Unanimous agreeement that there are some ugly issues.. we don't use it to discriminate wih overweight or girls with slight visual imparments... basically.. we only use it when it's absolutly true......

__________________
"Its better to be hated for who you are, then loved for what your not" --Van Zant

"Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."

maleficent

I wasn't picking on you, Martian... and I really hope you would never describe a woman you didn't find attractive as fugly... That's just mean... Everyone has a type, I don't disagree, but to judge a person solely on what they look like is wrong.

I'm a nice person... most of the time anyhow... but I've also been called fugly (and it wasn't expected to get back to me - but it did) I can tell you it's something that stays with you for a long time... That's what I remember someone saying about me... not the good.. the bad things are what stay with you and it's a lot harder to bring the good things in to replace it.

The original poster's comment about how she was nice to him and basically got him accepted (otherwise he'd m ore than likely be alone) but he brushes her off becuase she's fugly... MEAN MEAN MEAN MEAN MEAN...

I know this woman who is drop dead gorgeous... I've seen people turn around on the street to look at her she's so gorgeous. She's also a class a prima donna, whiney, selfish bitch. Which is clearly evident within 2 minutes of talking to her. She doesn't understand why she can't keep a guy for more than just one night... There is more to a type than just what a person looks like...

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shakran

Yes, you did mean to sound like a jerk. Referring to a woman as fugly IS being a complete jerk. Your sentence structure is good enough that I can safely assume you're not mentally deficient, which leaves us only with the conclusion that you were being a jerk, you knew you were being a jerk, and now that you're being called on it, you think "but I didn't MEAN to" will fool all of us.

Saying she's "cockblocking" shows us you're out for cheap sex without considering what your partner wants, and that's it. If that's all you want, find a hooker or a jar of vaseline. As much as you may think they are, women are not the brainless sex objects portrayed in those videos you keep hiding from your parents.

Best move in this case? You've been a total asshole to these women. Apologize, then leave them alone so they can find someone who deserves them, and work on a little maturity before you go chase again.

Am I coming down pretty hard? Yeah I am, but people around here know me as someone who doesn't mince words when people are screwing up. You treated those women like crap, and no one deserves that.

martinguerre

it's not right to use someone to get to someone else. that goes for the poster, and the girl, too. posse head or player, it just doesn't seem right from the get go.

you tell people you're interested, that you're interested. and you leave other people out of it...

__________________
For God so loved creation, that God sent God's only Son that whosoever believed should not perish, but have everlasting life.

-John 3:16

maleficent

Ok, I'm riled up now...

While I appreciate your honesty... Do you think it's right to refer to another human being as fugly? Are you so perfect looking that you can sit in judgement on someone else?

Visual impairments? Does that mean glasses? Women who wear glasses can't possibly be attractive?

Just because all of your buddies agree that a person is not up to your standards does not give you the right to insult them - even if it is behind their back.

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Cynthetiq

hmmm this thread is devolving almost as quickly as "bros vs. hoes"

For the sake of continuing the discussion, I'll use unattractive instead of fugly.

As a youth I would go out with my group of friends and since I was not as aggressive as my friends, I'd always wind up with the one that was unattractive to me. It didn't mean I didn't want to talk to her, just didn't want to persue a relationship with her in any capacity that involved sex or love.

I was always hard pressed to feel like I needed to have some sort of crutch, even up into my dating 20s where I wore a simple wedding ring to give myself and out. At first it was a gift from grandma that I picked out myself, it looked just enough like one but not one. When I got older I made friends with a woman who got divorced and was tossing her ring out so I took that and it became a "friend's memory" once she died a year or two later.

But I always had it as a crutch to easily excuse and demure myself out of uncomfortable situations where I wasn't interested in the girl.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

pig

You know, I'm reading a lot of these responses so far, and it seems to me that it's a little harsh mayhaps...I'm guessing that most people have been in a situation similar to this before, in some context or another. Original Post be damned - I'm thinking in the general sense this basically describes the social networking process, and I think we all do it to a certain extent.

Imagine: You meet a group. You're attracted to some members of said group, but not all - reasons notwithstanding...could be professional, recreational, or in this case sexual. The first contact with the group isn't your desired target, but are you going to turn down the opportunity to get in with the group? I don't think most people are going to categorically do this. And regardless of whether or not we try to hide our objectives, from others or ourselves, with some sort of assumed WWJD / I'm-a-benevolent-creature-don't-we-all-love-unicorns-and-fuzzy-critters mentality...come on, those original objectives are still there. It's just the way we work.

I don't think it gives you the "right" to be mean or rude to anyone, but I also think that we all have objectives when we enter social situations. It seems to be that possibly a lot of posters are imposing their own bad experiences on the situation. The original poster may not have taken the most mature approach to this, but I also think some degree of his quandry shows up in all of our lives.

Am I wrong?

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

ngdawg

I have been called ugly to my face. I have had a guy tell me (after sex, no less) that I could be Miss America-if I had a bag over my head. I have been completely ignored by guys who focused all their attention to the friends I was with.
When did this all happen? High School on up to about the age of 19. So this shows me just how immature and clueless you are.
Maybe all these girls think YOU are "fugly" and figure by pushing you to the less pretty one, you won't be bothering them. Ah, Karma....

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

tres

Well, I certianly did not intend to rile you up. Visual imparments does not mean glasses... it means we don't discriminate because of stupid things like a big nose, or a mole or some crap like that... and no... I'm not all that great looking, and I know it... it's meant in fun, and it just means that its a girl that would not activly persue.. less we get to know them through a group and and forced to interact and to see beyond visual appearance. Your looks are your first impressions... the only way around that is by talking online before you meet... I'll be the first to admit, I have dated a few girls that I have met online, that had I met them at a bar or something, I would have probably not gone up to them myself. Even my current SO, while I would not have called her fugly, the picture she posted of herself was horrible... and I was not at first interested, but this did not stop me from talking with her.. and over a year later we are still together....... When I did meet her in person, she looked incredible.. but the visual I had was nowhere near that.. I was going mostly on the "real her" that I discoverd while talking. Again, did not intend to rile you up, and again, i'm the first to admit that "fugly" girls can be awsome people, but if you don't know somebody.....looks are the first thing you see... Now if people went around with signs on them stating their personalities and intrests we might be able to fight being discriminated against via first visual impression.

You might ask... if a "fugly" girl came up to me in a bar and started talking would I talk??? Absolutly... I'll give her a chance... But would you go up to a guy you did'nt find attractive??? I doubt it... I'm even willing to bet that most women, having an unattractive or "fugly" guy come up to them would totally blow them off........ ugly, as well as fucking ugly is an OPINION, we are all intitled to them, and we all have different tastes and preferences... what might be fugly to me might be smokin hot to you... Nothing personal....

__________________
"Its better to be hated for who you are, then loved for what your not" --Van Zant

"Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I learn."

maleficent

Not really - I think it's the original poster's choice of words and the attitude that I am reading into that peturbs me the most...

Until you have been called fugly or even ugly and passed over for the cuter friend... you have no idea how hurtful that attitude can be.

I don't expect us to all stand on a hill holding hands and singing kumbaya and having everyone love one another.. (there are people I just don't like - and I don't like them because of their personality) however.. You don't have to like someone to treat them the way you would want ot be treated.

I can easily find 10 flaws in any person... I can also just as easily find 10 good things in any person... The good things make for a much more pleasant world.

Words have power... Words have meaning...

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Ustwo

Maybe the other girls find you fugly and they are passing you off on the girl you find fugly

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

JustJess

I hope you are nicer to your right hand, since that's the only action you'll be getting.

Since you've pissed off both men and women, of various ages and points of view... I'd say you've fucked up royally. You're lucky they haven't caught on to just how much of a jerk you are. Everyone has certain types of attractiveness they aim for in a partner; just because she doesn't match with yours doesn't make her less.

Ah, objectification. Lovely way to start off the morning, don't you think?

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

*Nikki*

What goes around comes around.

Janey

so fugly means?? fucken ugly? it's an annoying contraction if it does...

ngdawg

Yes it certainly does and is....

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

Nisses

*looks up at some of the posts*

take a deep breath guys

(apart from Shakran, he's always strict from what I can tell )


I think ngdawg has it right, can we just chalk this up to quick, immature and clueless player asking for advice? I think by now he managed to catch on that this isn't the behaviour expected of most of this community's members...

Then again, I seem to remember Plan9's thread on dating and other things like it. I thought there was a place for less mature posts too.

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Moderation should be moderately moderated.

shakran

I prefer to think of myself as "crusty old fart"

StanT

Not that I'd take dating advice from myself, but women frequently pass judgement on guys based on how you treat their friends. You've blown it, in this case.

Everyone deserves to be treated with respect. Real women don't look like supermodels, but they are a whole lot more fun.

Bill O'Rights

I thought I was the "crusty old fart".

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

shakran

There's room for 2 in Old Fartville

maleficent

Got room for a fugly bitch? I like the company in old Fartville

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match000

Hi everyone,

I appreciate all your time to respond. I look upon your comments as a hopeful opportunity to improve myself, and I appreciate everyone's viewpoints.

Yes, I was being a jerk, and I don't deny it. However, I was not *trying* to be a jerk on purpose, as you say. Can you look at it from the other viewpoint? I am trying to get to know a certain one or two cute girls I like. Instead, I have been whipped and controlled by the girl I'm not interestd in to basically be her "American lovery boy" for the next 10 days... without *my* consent. I do realize, however, that my being nice to her may have slightly led her on, but in no way did I overtly show romantic interest in her.

Besides, at the time of posting, I could have easily gone back and changed the entire post and removed "fugly". Why didn't I? Ummm, I guess I just wanted to be straight up, no bullshit.

Oh yeah, and I have *not* been an asshole to these women. As much as I *do* sound like an asshole, I have planned fun stuff for them to do, taken them various places, and in fact have been a cheap, free tour guide if not anything else. If anything, I should be feeling very very used right now or after a week lol.

Also, I didn't mention that I *did* have my buddy wingman there at all times, but he was zeroed in by *another* cute girl of the group (not the ones I like). So he was held hostage too, but with a cute one.

Again, I appreciate the responses. I am a little short of time right now, but will try to respond to more when I get back later.

Bill O'Rights

/me shrugs
I suppose...why(?)...you know one?

__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

match000

Yeah, I considered that too Hey, maybe I am fugly too, who knows

match000

That's great advice. Yes, I am trying to learn how to treat everyone respectably and equally.

You guys seem to have gotten the impression that I treat the one I'm not interested in like shit when I see her. LOL. If that were the case, I wouldn't be in this mess. I'd be outta the group in no time. In fact, I treat her very well, and equally well to as many girls as I can (including the other ones I don't find cute). I now realize that there is no excuse to be mean just because I am on the net, but well, at least you guys knew what I meant.

pig

Mal, you have no idea how badly red hair and freckles goes over in your average middle school I'm not saying I can't understand where people are coming from, or that I don't agree with the notion that making snap judgements about people based on purely superficial qualities is a pretty narrowminded and ignorant way to view life - but I also detect a lot of people that really seem to come down on any judgement that is based on some superficial context, and I just think we all do it.

Alack and alas - chalk one up for the bastard side of pigglet mayhaps.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

ShaniFaye

You know....I had NO idea what dave looked like when I agreed to go out with him. All I knew was that he had long hair, wasnt very tall and was over weight....I have dated some men that my mother called quasimodo (is that spelled right) and said I was the only person in the world that would have dated them.

I have MANY times talked to the "ugly, geeky, not as handsome as the rest in some peoples eyes" guys because I learned very early in my teens not to discount ANYONE as somebody I wouldnt like until I talked to them first.

so yes, I come down on any "shallow hal or halette" because looks are not everything. I try to keep a mind frame of....what if I was blind....would I like this person then? and it hasnt failed me yet.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

match000

Hehehe. The ring one sounds like a good one to try after I hit about mid 20's. Right now still 21