ShaniFaye

As a person with compassion for others, yes even people I dont know, which obviously some people dont posses....yes its that hard to get over it. But as you seem a person who doesnt give a crap what other people think why do you care?

It seems you're just advocating the behaviour and I think thats really sad. Its just good there are people in the world that dont really mind that quality in a person, same as there are people that dont mind that I abhor it.

anything else?

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Menoman

obviously I give mine out conditionally, because I'm not naive, and that's how I was raised.

You give the respect where it's earned, I respect alot of people all who have earned it.

What you're showing me is that I don't deserve your respect, because I have different feelings on a situation than you do.

Ever think people grow up differently? Have completely different senses of morality than you do?

You think you're better than people because they don't fit into your sense of morality.

I think I'm better than people because they haven't "earned" my respect yet.


Po-tay-to?
Po-tah-to?

Maybe you should think about what this board is actually all about, it's about acceptance of others points of view. It's not about YOUR POINT OF VIEW IS WRONG WRONG WRONG YOU'RE OBVIOUSLY IMMATURE AND DON'T DESERVE MY RESPECT.


You do have a bit of respect from me, simply because you have a belief and you obviously use it in your day to day life.

Though it's tainted by the fact that you won't understand that others who grow up in completely different enviroments than you, can and will have different sense of morality and respect than you.

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Cynthetiq

I see and I understand where you are coming from. I live in a melting pot of 8 million people who have to all get along and have enough respect to bump into each other and stand next to each other.

So the guy picking up the trash doesn't get your respect because he's not done anything to earn it. The guy trying to make a right turn in the car next to you he's not getting your respect because he didn't do anything to earn it. The person taking your order at the local fast food joint, he doesn't deserve your respect because he's getting paid to get your your food, and he's not earned it. The guy you are staning in line behind or in front of, they don't deserve your respect because what have they done to deserve it?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

Yes, the post I just made goes for you as well.

In short - how can you actually act like you're better than someone else, when this entire community is about acceptance of others points of view. It is NOT about coming here to tell someone they are ignorant, or that you abhor them, because their different than you.

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ShaniFaye

there are those of us that dont there are forms of respect that dont have to be earned.

do you think common courtesty has to be earned too?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Menoman

Why the hell would I care about these people in the first place? I don't know them, I probably never will.

No they do not get my respect, why would they?

They will get my common courtesy, yes, but my respect? Fuck no, What have they done to make me respect them?

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Cynthetiq

Please tell me what your definition of respect is, because as far as my parents raised me common courtesy is the lowest form of respect.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

You're reaching for reasons to act like you're superior to me morally, next are you going to ask me if I go around raping little kids because omg yu dun respektc them!

Just stop before it becomes a pissing contest.

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ShaniFaye

please remind me where I used the word ignorant.

you're not being very accepting of people's different point of view either. You insist on blasting those of us that dont think the way you do, so you're really no different...I dont see where I've said I have no respect for you.

and I didnt say I abhor the person, I said I abhor the quality.

Thats no different from me telling my daughter....I love you but I hate what you just did....now is it?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Menoman

I would define respect, as a... Mutual Understanding of Worth.

Now, how do I know that guy working at the drive-thru isn't a lazy piece of shit?

Or the lady taking a right turn next to me isn't a crackwhore heading downtown?



How can respect just be "given" away.



And, No, I don't believe common courtesy is the lowest form of respect, it is something completely different from respect.

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ShaniFaye

ahahahaha any one who knows me would never think I'd claim to be morally superior to anyone....oh thats funny. I guess my parents just taught me that you just dont do what some of you are doing....I guess its a difference of concious.

oh and I dont "reach" for anything.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

Okay... let's all take a step back. Since I've been posting in this thread, I don't want it to seem biased that I moderate it or edit anything.

But let's look at what we are talking about because we are all long time members here having a row about semantics and point of view.

We agree that this place is to be a place of respect, acceptance, and tolerance.

We agree that people should be extended common courtesy.

We diverge from that point.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynthetiq

the dictionary.com definition of respect:

I think I see where we diverge in definition.

you are using the primary definition and I am using the secondary. I believe that Shani and shakran is also using the secondary, please correct me if I'm mistaken.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

I agree the definition is different for us.

At this point I'm trying to understand how someone can give someone "my definition" of respect, without them earning it?

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Cynthetiq

and menoman, my apologies as if you did not continue this discourse, my level of respect would have dropped to the lowest it could be for an individual.

my statement was quite knee jerk.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

ShaniFaye

I guess I just respect all people until they give me a reason not to. I dont see how respecting a persons feelings and not doing something that "I" consider childish is something that another person has to earn from me. They only thing they can do is "un earn" it.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

You are correct, for your definition it is one to be earned.

I do not give that level of respect away freely either.

But the second definition is the one that I tend to give away before I even realize you are standing in front of me. I think we can agree that we do not trample on someone in various levels of the second definition of respect. Be it cut in front of someone in line, take their possessions, and the like.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

I can agree that common courtesy, as I call it, is something that is given out as a stepping stone to earning respect.

Though I can't say that 2+ pages of blasting someone for using a word is respectful, which is kind of what I was trying to point out, though the word respect was getting into the way a little bit -_-

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Cynthetiq

arrgh... I'm trying to express that I do respect you, I do respect your opinion in all the definitions above.

the fact that we are all trying to find where the common ground really is shows we are what this place is really about, and for that I thank you all.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynthetiq

Can we agree that definition 2 is a good definition that equates to common courtesy?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

yeah that's what I meant.

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Cynthetiq

So if we agree that definition 2 of respect (To avoid violation of or interference with) is equal to common courtesy, would you not give that "common courtesy" or respect to someone's feelings?

My example: If someone who went to Cambridge or some other Ivy League school, and they called you "stupid" and "uneducated" because you don't have their level of education, would that not be as harmful in the same manner as "fugly?"

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

perhaps it would, but I'm not saying it's different.

I'm just saying, well... I guess I'm rather, hoping, that people nowadays wouldn't actually be offended by a namecaller. I call people stuff all the time, and if someone calls me a name, which I'm sure I'm called an Asshole more often than most (probably a few times it was "thought" but not posted in this thread -_^ ) I'm not going to get all mopey, and crushed.

Chances are I will laugh, coz it's probably true in however way said person views the world, and thats that.



I just find it hard to believe that in today's society, where words are abused until they don't even mean the same thing as they used to, that someone could be offended by something like this.

Also, it's my feeling that if they are offended, then they should lighten up.

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match000

I'm sorry guys, it looks like I started way more than I bargained for. Regardless of my view on this, I hope you guys and girls do not let this one small point be the cause of any more fallout.

Thanks for everyone's views. I still agree with Menoman, but I also agree that in mixed company and amongst non-close friends I need to watch the language more.

ShaniFaye

so....before "nowadays" it was okay to be offended by a namecaller.....but now its not? What changed to make it more ok to call a person names than it used to be?

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Cynthetiq

I agree, "sticks and stones" and all that rot. Words are words and if you let them hurt you they will hurt you.

We're examing how people can have respect for one's feelings and still express their own thoughts without prejudice. That is the challenge presented by this topic.

I think that we've found our common ground now we have to get to it.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

My guess is you were called names, and that's why you're so adamant to judge me because I have the balls, nah, the self-confidence, to laugh when I'm called something.

Until you actually say something that isn't aimed to 1) make me look dumb 2) make you look better than others, I'll refrain from even responding.

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Menoman

See, I think you understand, you just said exactly what I mean

"if you LET them hurt you, they will hurt you"

There ya go, I think that sums up exactly what I mean by "lighten up" and "toughen up" when you're called stuff.


(I guess what I'm saying, is if people would just look at things from a not so serious, not so "oh we must be PC about everything" point of view.

Would there even be a challenge to this thread?

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ShaniFaye

ok, I give up...I cant even ask for clarification of your statements without you getting all....oh you're trying to make me look stupid and make yourself look better, which is not what Im doing........YOU said it, not me...if you dont care to explain it then fine.

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Menoman

A sarcastic remark, that changes the subject completely away from the point I was making, is hardly asking for clarification.


Did you honestly think that I meant that it was perfectly "OK" to be offended by names? If you honestly thought that's what I meant, and you were asking for clarification, then I will comply.

But to me, it surely seems like you're answering all my questions with questions that are meant to be the "high road" way of thinking.

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Cynthetiq

Interesting, as we are in agreement that "thick skin" etc. and to have enough self confidence to shake it off.

But I have to point out that #1 or #2 is where this I see Shani coming from... which brings us right back to the beginning, since if you had "thick skin" then you'd not bothre.... but I think I can round this out.. for you it's "make you look dumb" and "make one look better than others" that happens to be your trigger, your button.

Can we agree that fugly, is possible to be someone else's button or trigger?

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Menoman

I am not offended by someone who acts better than other people, I actually pity them most of the time, because I was like that in high school, I was in the crowd who had anything they wanted, had all the nice clothes. I know how pathetic it is to honestly believe you're better than someone else.

No, what I meant Cynthetiq, was that I refuse to argue with someone like that, because the arguements will never end, due to the "holier than thou* never admitting being wrong, even if they were face to face with flawless logic perhaps. That is how I felt she was coming off, so that's how I played my cards.

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ShaniFaye

I will try this one more time....and I will note...that as a rule in discussion's like this I do not try to come off as sarcastic.....you said and I quote

I was trying to understand why a person "nowadays" should be any less offended by a name caller then in the past. Name calling, IMO, was/is/always will be something thats not nice....how can times make it any less hurtful to the person on the receiving end? Now Im not talking about joking around name calling...yes I do my fair share of that....I am talking serious name calling.

I stated earlier in this thread that yes I've been called names....thats not a secret from anyone....but it hasnt happend in a long time (at least to my face lol), but I can 100% guarantee you that I would be of the same opinion if I'd never had the word "fugly" or any other word directed towards me.

Anyone that knows me knows that it takes a LOT for me to make a detrimental comment about ANYONE because I dont really see the point in it. Yes, to a degree I see myself as "above" that kind of behaviour, I dont deny that....but I have NEVER tried to make myself seem better than anyone cause lord knows I have my faults just like anyone else, if it comes off that way Im sorry...If we were talking in person you'd know that wasnt my intention at all

__________________
I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Menoman

like I said in the same post as you quoting me.

words today are used, and abused soooo much, that they don't even mean the same thing anymore.

Someone calls you a fucker, and they are serious, can you actually get upset about this? about being called a fucker?

I hardly think the word nigger means the same thing as it once did... and that's one of the names that used to really really mean something awful. Today, it's like sayin hey buddy, whats up bro.

What name today, in its bastardized definition could actually bring pain to someone, because "Fugly" would make me laugh, more than it would hurt, if someone was actually dumb enough to say it.

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ShaniFaye

YOU may not think it means the same...but I can tell you that to some people the N word is just as bad as its always been, maybe in the younger generations it doesnt, but to someone my age and older, when its said from a white person to a black person...yes its BAD.

If someone calls me a bitch and isnt joking around about it...yes its very hurtful because I hate knowing somebody could have that impression of me...and I dont see why I should be expected to take it as just a "word" when its obvious if its said in a derogatory manner....its an accustation of ME, and tries to define me in a way that I dont like...same as comments about my appearance.

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

match000

So, now there are 2 days left before the girls leave.

The 2nd cute girl who was very distant from me, especially after I hit on her, well, it turns out that night I hit on her she *did* have a fight with her BF. In fact, they had broken up that night just before I hit on her. Actually, the cute girl had only told me and The One I'm Not Interested In this news yesterday when the 3 of us were hanging out. She had not told any of her close girlfriends (all 7 of them!) this news!

Any suggestions? Although she kept distant from me a week (she was wary/disliking of me for hitting on the other cute girl who had a BF), yesterday we hung out with The One I'm Not Interested In and things were patched up and going good.

Before I had made it clear to the One I'm NOt Interested In that I don't like her, this cute girl was afraid to talk to me much because she did not want to hurt The One I'm Not Interested In (b/c they are good friends). However, I had made it clear to The One I'm NOt Interested In, and I kept saying the same thing (that I'm not interested in The One I'm Not Interested In in that way) in front of the cute girl (She knew that anyways).

So is the coast clear to express my interest in her again? Or should I just be friends for the remaining 2 days and not risk her giving ME rejection?

Yesterday when we were talking I had made light/fun of my previous attempt at hitting on her, saying that after she distanced herself from me, I did likewise. I also mentioned that when I had hit on her last week, I didn't know she had a BF at all.

Also, this cute girl keeps saying she has to go back home to Asia to see if the relationship is ended for good, because she says before this had happened and her and her BF got back together after one of them made a small ammends. So basically she said she is going to just go home and see whats up, but she did say *she* was the one who ended the relationship over the phone here in the USA, not her BF.

Cynthetiq

Thank you both of you... I think that this way of discourse is really the only way we break down barriers and get an understanding of individuals.

We aren't too far off from each other, we're much closer than what it appeared intially.

This is a good example of how people can see a word and think that it means one thing yet the other individaul is totally misundertanding where the other is coming from. What words seem hurtful or disrespectful to one is something that slides off the like water off a duck.

Thank you all for your continued consideration and respect for each other.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Cynthetiq

My advice still has not changed.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Jimellow

What kind of relationship are you looking for in two days? It seems to me that people spend months, even years, trying to work out the gender issues you are hoping to resolve in two days time.

Also, you seem to assume that only reasoning behind the "cute" girls not talking to you is due to being under the power of their leader. It's possible they didn't want to talk to you regardless, and you are just ignoring that aspect.

Honestly, in two days time, I don't think you are going to accomplish anything, so I would recommend moving on and seeking a realistic goal. Anything accomplished in two days is likely going to be forced and unfulfilling anyway, so you might as well move on now.

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Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

pig

Hope this doesn't sound rude, but assuming that you won't see these girls after two days time, I would honestly say....

Give.
It.
Up.

Either that, or...

Hook.
Up.
With.
The One.

or...

Hook.
Up.
With.
The One.
And
Invite
Her
Friend
To
Watch.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style