SpaceMonkey

Hi everybody! Long time member, first time caller. Been wasting the bandwith of you productive form users for free porn for forever now, and now that I need advice I come crawling over to you.

BUT I DIGRESS (This next part is going to take awhile)

Anyway, my girlfriend and I are both 18 and have been together nearly six months. This is her first relationship and my second. She hadn't kissed a guy before me; I went to 3rd base with my first girlfriend. Up until a week or two ago we'd pretty much just been kissing on the mouth/neck/ears and I'd played with her boobs and ass over her clothes. The occasions we talked about things not moving further she said it was because her gut told her she wasn't ready, and since I felt like I went with my gut in choosing not to have sex in my last relationship and have been very grateful of that, I didn't question her instinct and figured she would feel ready at the right time.

Now while the emotional aspect of the relationship has progressed beyond all expectations (I dearly love this girl), the physical side hasn't (although I've been amazed at how good just making out can be). In the last few weeks I've started kissing and licking her stomach, side, and back as well as cleavage, and also sucked on her nipples over her clothes. She is usually able to have at least one orgasm each time we're together, though it should be noted she's extremely quiet about it and most of them I can't tell when this happens.

Last night she was on her stomach and I was kissing, licking and rubbing her back I started gently grinding my crotch into her lower butt/thigh area. This continued and got more and more passionate with both of us enjoying things thoroughly until the point where I decided that underwear washing be damned, I was going to have an orgasm (I once accidently crossed the point of no return once about a month and a half ago). Despite the presence of clothes, it was probably one of the most physically intimate experiences I've had. She found the whole thing perfectly fine and comfortable and enjoyed it a ton also.

While I'd always assumed that the level of intimacy and the base system were closely related, it seems we've become incredibly physically intimate without doing anything overtly sexual. We talked about it tonight and both determined she has difficulty with anything directly and explicitly sexual, with the standard fooling around practices seeming to her more primal and sexual and less romantic than what we're doing now. She likens this connection with her traditional Catholic upbringing and education.

Now with 18 being a sensitive time for all this and me not wanting to ever make this girl I love feel pressured or rushed, I've been fairly cautious in dealing with all this and don't regret that. But I do feel emotionally that we are more than ready to explore more traditional ways to fool around and am looking for a way to make her feel comfortable with that.

Aside from not having reached a certain emotional level with a partner, what reasons might a girl not be ready to fool around? How is a valuable gut-feeling distinguished from the resistance that comes from going outside a comfort zone to try something new and unfamiliar?

Please feel free to offer whatever insight comes to mind as far as what I should do in this situation, whether attempting to progress sexually is a good idea, and what might be the best way to go about that to make her most comfortable with the transition. I'll answer any clarifying questions as soon as I read them.

Vincentt

The fact that everyone has been telling her that sex is wrong for the past 18 years.
That maybe she would be pregnet no matter what, IE, airsperm, comdoms don't work, etc.

She might not want to have sex now because she views it as wrong. My first girl friend said something along the lines of "girls who have sex before marriage are sluts and very dirty."

She thinks if she has sex she will change, that the hymen will break and her entire life will be changed for ever. I guess the fact that something phycially changes isn't something I would understand, but I can't think it would matter... But she might be thinking it will.


The fact that it is okay to touch through clothing, but not skiin to skin is kinda strange but also common.

I hope each encounter isn't like you crawling all over her. while she lays there and 'enjoys' but also feels she is doing you a favor.

Anyway, no advice but some brain storming ne?

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MoJoPokeyBlue

From the way you've articulated your situation, you sound a lot older than 18. At the same time however, you seem immature in the ways of a lasting relationship. My instinct is that you're not telling us everything or not being completely truthful about the circumstances. However, in the spirit of helpfulness I'll try to answer your question from two perspectives.

If you are 18: Relax. There will be other girlfriends and other relationships in the years ahead. Don't try to pressure or maniplulate her into doing something that she's already said she isn't ready for.

If you are older: Talk to her. Be honest with how you feel about the situation. Tell her pretty much the same thing you've posted here and let her know that you want more of a physical relationship. On a scale of 1 to 10, you have to decide how important a sexual relationship is to you at this point in your life, and if it's more important than she is. Be ready to make some decisions.

Mojo

SpaceMonkey

I'm open to the idea that I may be immature as far as the long term relationship goes, but if you could clarify exactly how, that would be helpful.

I am actually 18, coming up on 19. If I didn't reveal anything more its because I already felt like I was writing a manuscript, so it seems like your gut instinct may not be right on this occasion. I would never do anything to pressure or manipulate her; I've told her that no decision she can make about that is going to compromise our relationship. And that's true. As far as what's more important she is by a long shot, but if the sexual side of things is something we could comfortably share, I'm interested in that.

After this summer I'll be going to UCLA and she'll be going to UCI, and while that distance isn't completely convienient, it's doable, but not exactly the ideal situation for cultivating a physical relationship. I'm not naive about probability, but I don't view this relationship as one of many that I'll have in the years to come. Hope that clears a few things up, I've got to get going to one of my last days of high school. Let me know if I can clarify anything else.

Daniel_

If you love her, wait for her.

You are articulate and thoughtful - write her a letter (by hand) and explain your hopes, dreams and fears.

Tell the truth.

It will be ok.

cowgirl02

Daniel beat me to it!! I think that the best thing to do is wait for her and respect her and her beliefs and eventually she will come around. Good luck with things!!

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SpaceMonkey

Well we've actually been talking about it so to me a letter would almost make it seem more of an urgent situation, which its not. The whole idea of waiting for her to be ready has gotten a little confusing to me, as I always imagined your standard sexual practices and physical intimacy being intertwined, but things have developed where incredibly physical things will occur but nothing overtly sexual. I'd be fine with waiting, but I'm wondering if its not our emotional state this is contigent on, exactly what will change over time. Is it just that the social stigma attached to these things will lessen as she branches out from her more repressed roots, or is there some other factor time would help that I'm missing?

Daniel_

Going to college will change both of you in ways you cannot imagine.

I predict that things will change DRAMATICALLY by the end of the first term.

You may not like that.

Sage

she's traditional Catholic, and if she's never been out from under her parents' roof she's never understood a different way to look at the world. I go with what Dan said- she's gonna CHANGE her POV a ton... just be patient! And, if it's meant to be, nothing can stop it, and if it isn't meant to be, then nothing either of you will do will make it work!

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SpaceMonkey

Well Daniel given the numbers that's a pretty safe prediction to make, although it's not at all constructive and its not like thats something I haven't heard before. I'm aware of the probability, but that doesn't change my desire to pursue things or my general course of action in the relationship.

KinkyKiwi

i'm amazed at how mature you sound! just be paitient...sex isnt the most important thing in a relationship and it sounds like you have a great one. going to college will open her up alot and probably make her more comfortable with sex anyway. hang in there and wait till she tells you shes ready

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Play with each other. Play with yourselves. Just don't play with the squirrels, they bite.

Scipio

She's scared and probably lacking information about what to expect. At this point, she's probably not in any kind of a hurry to lose her virginity, as she has her first years of college ahead of her.

Here are a few things that I have learned about the whole process. The first time is special in a way, but it might hurt for her, and it probably won't be that good for you either. It's a meaningful thing to do, and a major step, but it's just the tip of the iceberg, and once you're doing it on a regular basis, you'll look back and realize that it wasn't such a big deal. If she loves you, and she's decided that you're "first time" material, all you have to do is muster up some courage and lead the way. Humans have been doing this thing for millenia, so don't worry too much. It only gets better.

So, in a sense I disagree with the wait until she says she's ready bit. Women are funny, and she might be ready, but not ready to talk about it, if that makes sense. If she likes you enough, and you lead the way, she might follow.

(Blindingly obvious, yet necessary, caveat: if you go for it, and she tells you to stop, stop. Non-verbal communication on an issue this complex can be a very imprecise game. If nothing else, it will at least tell you where you stand, and whatever else you can learn from the conversation afterwards.)

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mokle

I can't add anything that hasn't been said, but I just wanted to comment on how well written that post was. I wish everyone took the time to articulate half as good as you have.

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Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

snowy

Your patience is truly admirable. Keep it up and it won't go unrewarded. Eventually she'll figure out what she wants--and if what she wants isn't sex, bear with her. We're not all ready to go at the same time. I didn't lose my virginity till I was 19 and I grew up in a perfectly liberal and understanding household. It's like a puzzle--all the pieces have to fall into place for it to work and for a girl to want to take that step. So just wait, continue to be understanding, and all will be well. There's nothing you can do to help her make this decision except be understanding and willing to talk about it with her--but don't push her. That's the worst thing you can do. I realize you aren't doing that now, but the longer the waiting goes on, the more likely men are to start--don't be like other men. Good luck.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Daniel_

I guess I deserved that.

Sorry.

The point I was trying (ineffectually) to make is that right now she is your emotional centre and your desire. You love her, and she loves you, but there are sexual issues in your relationship.

As has been said elsewhere in the thread, she sounds like she comes from a very conservative background, and she's almost certainly not yet come to her own conclusions about the long term personality traits that she will exhibit.

It may be that college will cause her to tighten up more in backlash against the "loose morals" of her co-students - bt it's vastly more likely that she will relax a whole load and begin the glorious exploration of her own physical sexuality.

I hope that if she does, she does it with you. If you love her and she knows it, there's little reason that she'd go elsewhere.
I wish you both well.

And I supose, if she goes off the idea of a long distance relationship, you're gonna be in the best place in the world for a single guy that wants to express his love for the female of the species in the traditional way.

MoJoPokeyBlue

First, I'll buy the fact that you're 18. You've provided other facts about school and your relationship that seem to bear this out.

Second, what do YOU want out of this relationship? It sounds like you want a sexual relationship with this person and are meeting some resistance. Your post suggests that you want some help in trying to understand her feelings, so that you can persuade her into becoming more physical.

Let's run through a few scenarios. Let's assume that she doesn't want to have sex right now, nor will she for the next year. Is this okay with you? Are you willing to wait for several months?

Let's now assume that she agrees to have sex right away. What kind of relationship are you wanting to develop with her? Are you thinking long-term or just wait-and-see what happens?

You age has a lot to do with this situation. Couples that get together at 18 (whether sexually active or not) usually don't go on to spend the rest of their lives together. Not that this can't happen in this particular situation, but you'll have to agree that it's unlikely.

Your intelligence is showing through...your smarter than your originial post/question. You already know what she wants and you know what you want. Fortunately, you're both at an age where you don't have to make "any" decisions. Take each day as it comes and let us know how it all turns out.

MoJo

SpaceMonkey

So for the sake of the discussion, are we defining sex as anything beyond first base? I mean it's much less foreign to me to be taking all these things in account for sex, because I've always seen that as a huge commitment of intimacy, especially when virginity was involved, but it's a bit of surprise to me to be taking things as much into account for what I'd seen more as "fooling around". I still assign plenty of value to anything of the hands and mouth variety, but it always seemed to me as something developed along with the emotional part of the relationship. So feel free to clarify/comment on that at will.

So right now my girlfriend views sex as something seeming unromantic and primal, and admits this is not a healthy perspective but one that she's been conditioned to over time. Though it's getting increasingly difficult to find an outlet for all emotions I have that carry over into the physical part of things, I feel like I could definetly handle waiting for an extended period of time. The thing I'm less eager about is having to deal with this particular hangup after we're in college and have the long distance issue to deal with as well. So assuming she decides developing things physically is not something she wants to do for now, is there any other way to ease her out of this perspective and help her see sex (in the right contex of course) as a healthy and romantic thing to make things easier once she physically feels ready?

Daniel_

I think the answer here is that going to college will expose her to more attitudes from different perspectives. It did me.

It's likely that she will make friends with her peer group, and meet girls that have been sexually active for years and not died of shame or caught diseases, or whatever she's frightened of.

It sounds like she's not frightened of LOVE, she's frightened of LUST.

Seeing lusty behaviour around her will open her up (re-reading that I realise it's an appaling pun, for which I apologise) to new ideas about her own sexuality I suspect.

If waiting is cool with you the gentlest thing you can do is wait until she wants to try lust.

And when she does - hang onto your hat. There is nothing on earth that has the primal force of a good catholic girl that decides to get dirrty.

MSD

Join date Apr. 20, 2003. You know that it's illegal to look at porn while underage (also against TFP rules to be a member at that age,) right?


As for your issue, I was raised traditional Catholic and I turned out perfectly fine (I do not consider my formerly religious self to be fine in any respect.) I'll offer advice based on my personal experience.

What you have to understand is that even if she wants to turn 180° and abandon her upbringing, it will take time for her to question and dismiss what she has been told for well over 99% of her life. Remember that while you see it as a great way to express your love, she's been told that doing anything including and beyond french kissing will result in eternity in hell. Even if you don't believe it, it's hard to shake that.

It may be a while before she's comfortable with anything more than what you're doing now. Unlike most situations in which compromise is the best solution, you have to go at her pace since you're ready and willing to go faster than she is. She's the one who would be changing, you have to support her.

Considering what you wrote, it seems that you're interested in much more than just a physical relationship, and you'll do fine if you're willing to let her take the lead.

SpaceMonkey

Oh, I was 18 when I joined the TFP. I just got held back, that's all. It's like a Groundhog Day type thing, only a year instead of a day. And there's no Andie MacDowell.

v_Jaded_v

Let me see if I can help shed some light on your situation. I was born and raised Catholic. I waited until I was close to 19 before I lost my virginity. I came from a very restrictive and authoritarian household. The guy I lost it to had been my boyfriend on and off since I was fifteen years old. Part of the reason I held back was for one, everything I had been taught. For two, I was terrified of my parents, and believed that they would somehow know. Three, the friends that I had at the time would have looke down on me if I had. I was afraid that if I went off to college and things didn't work out between myself and my love, that I would be spoiled goods.

That was fourteen years ago. Once I moved out of my parents house, was exposed to divergent view points, made guy friends (therefore gaining perspective into the male psyche, and learning that most men would rather have a woman that knows what she's doing in the bedroom and is confident in her sexuality) and had a few experiences of my own....I came to find that I'm a very sexual person, and have embraced my sexual nature with gusto.

That said, give her time. Wait until she is in a different environment, and you have proven that the distance thing will work. Then she may be more comfortable giving herself to you. Also, there is a difference between f*@%ing, having sex and making love. When you've been around the block a few times, you'll recgonize the difference. While all three are great, for a virgin with her background, make sure that the first time is special. Don't just decide one night to get it on on the couch with the TV blaring in the background.....When she says she's ready, plan it out and pull out all the stops...Flowers, candles, a picnic dinner...whatever, it will help make that first time smoother, more memorable and special. For a woman the difference between a good first time and and uncomfortable first time can make all the difference as to how she views sex down the road.

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