Strange Famous

And they all say stupid stuff like how I am really funny or really sweet.

I'm guessing that what they are meaning is either:

a) "yeah, you could be ok, except you are kind of ugly and really pretty fat, so no thanks"

b) "well, you make me laugh, but at you not with you, I might have liked you when I was 18, but now I want a real man and the whole alienated, mad at the world thing is so passe"

I mean, seriously, I get on well with people, and I get on well with girls - I don't really have a lot of confidence and I don't meet a lot of new people. but I think nearly all the people I know like me, and I dont know of anyone who really dislikes me... I probably am not very physically good looking, but I mean, it could be worse, its not like Im freak show fat or that ugly, Ive got quite a few good female friends, and I make people laugh, I am probably at least as smart as average, I have a Masters and I got a First in my bachelor's degree - I dont have a brilliant job but its ok and I earn an ok salary, I have my own car, my own place, if I had to defend someone's honour I'd have a go, I used to box when I was younger so I can probably still fight ok... what Im asking is, how do I make people LIKE me as in maybe wanting to be with me, rather than like me as in thinking "oh, he's a nice guy, he's really sweet, or he makes me laugh, blah blah blah..."

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

sillygirl

What you've said right there is enough. Marry me...

Just be yourself. That's all you can do. If you get along with people, and you have friends, etc., then you aren't doing anything wrong. It'll happen eventually, give it time....

__________________

Anyone can be passionate, but it takes real lovers to be silly-Rose Franken
....absence makes me miss him more...

analog

I think your approach is what's killing you. You might be giving off too much of a "brother" or "best friend" vibe. Try Plan9's guide to women found here in sexuality, you'll be happy you did.

Chuckles

what u stated about not having alot of confidence. Build that up, im quoting plan9's guide here but build up that up by talking a little differently to girls who you really wouldn't consider dating, but hey, its PRACTICE! As you get better and better, start movin up the leagues :P I believe its all about confidence, and as soon as I built mine up things turned for the better

RAGEAngel9

Welcome to the club.
I have unfortunately moved into the "undesirable friend" long ago. As much as I wish I could blame women, it's simply because I cannot talk to women I'm interested in unless I already know them or we're forced to interact (School or work or something)
Now the answer to fixing my problem seems easy enough.... Just be more open and talk to more girls.
Too bad I just can't make myself do it.

hmmm. Guess none of that had a point.

Strange Famous

I did read Plan9's topic, and as self defeating and as ironic as this may sound, I guess I would rather just be myself and make someone like me than use a whole plan or a whole book of tactics. A lot of people say confidence is a big thing and if you dont really like yourself no one else will,,, I guess its just easier in theory than practise, you cant just decide you will be confident, or at least I have never been able to - but thanks for the tips everyone, maybe I'll work out how to change the way I am, I hope so.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

diddagirl

Yes- you are right. You cannot just say "hey I want to be confident", then snap your fingers and its done. Unfortunatly it is not that easy. Set up a plan...think about the things you are least confident in and then work on building yourself some confidence in those areas.

__________________
"Is it so small a thing to have enjoyed the sun, to have lived long in the spring, to have loved, to have thought, to have done."
-Matthew Arnold

skysooner

This is a very hard problem. Yes, you might not want to use a plan such as that. I had some problems with it, but then I'm happily married. I got really lucky in how I met my wife. What I have learned in life though is that you get to where you see yourself being. Sometimes the process is slow and sometimes it is fast. I visualize myself doing or accomplishing something, and it seems to help my confidence and ability to do something. I was around 250 lbs 6 months ago. I weighed in today at 186 with about 12 lbs to go. A year ago I couldn't have done this. I finally got sick of being heavy and visualized myself then. It took a long time to make the exercise, etc. work to the point where it was a habit more than something I just did. The same thing works for approaching or talking to people or women. You just have to visualize yourself doing it and do it. Are you going to fail more than you succeed? Sure you are. The best guy I ever saw at picking up women would go 1 for 15 or so. He just threw out his vibe to so many women that he eventually found one that went for it. Do I recommend this approach? Not really, but there is something to be said for practice makes perfect.

phlox

You don't need a whole rulebook, Strange. Just be more aggressive. Approach women, call them, ask them out. Woo. You'll both like it, I promise.

World's King

Do you wanna be my friend?

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

taylorspl

Stay exactly the way you are its more important that trying to be Rico Suave. Or you could just treat them like shit.

grouchie

I understand where you are coming from because i have been in that situation pretty much my whole life.

I seem to be the perfect friend for the opposite sex. Kinda like the gay guy who hangs out with all the chicks and gets close to them and is basically one of them. I'm that guy, but i'm straight. It's odd, but oh well, this is my life for a reason i guess.

I just got out of a 5 year relationship though, so i suppose every dog gets a bone now and then.

i'm 27, have only had 3 relationships in my life. 1 year, 1.5 years and 5 years. Though I have long droughts between when i'm seeing someone.

wilbjammin

You just have to have courage. Don't worry about the outcome as much as putting yourself out there and proving to yourself that you're doing everything you can to get what you want. If the girl doesn't get it, then she doesn't get. You can't make her get it, and you shouldn't want to make her get it. Just put yourself out there, and let others make their choices. If you don't feel confident, you're probably going to give off a vibe that being with you will be an uncomfortable experience. Just relax, be creative, and give yourself opportunities (I used to like only the girls I knew wouldn't have me... don't get caught in that trap).

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Innominate.

jeenyus

*I had to be edited by a mod*

phlox

That was helpful.

Strange Famous

Well, I am kind of overweight, but I don't know if I'm ugly or not. I am quite laid back and I guess I am not a very assertive or domineering person, but at the same time I wouldnt say I was a bitch either, I don't let people push me around - I just sometimes kind of let the world pass me by.

Then again, I am guessing you were just trying to insult me?

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

phlox

Well, I like my men with some meat on them (I think Philip Seymour Hoffman is incredibly sexy), and I'm sure there are lots of women who feel the same way. If you're comfortable with yourself and your weight, people will find you attractive.

emphant

There is your problem right there. You don't have to be domineering, but you DO have to make moves on girls, ask for their numbers, ask them on dates, try to kiss them, etc...

It should go both ways but...it doesn't. People say just be yourself don't change blah blah blah but they are full of it. Obviously being yourself(laid back and letting stuff happen) isn't working.

You say everyone likes you, so you must have a good personaility, you just need to start taking action. Unfortunatly, since all the girls you know already think of you as a friend, you have to meet new girls. You don't even have to be confident, you just have to act like it.

arch13

Even if this was in sarcasm, it was still uncalled for. Lay off the smart ass comments unless you have a fullly formed contribution to make.

__________________
Seen on an employer evaluation:

"The wheel is turning but the hamsters dead"
____________________________
Is arch13 really a porn diety ? find out after the film at 11.
-Nanofever

nanofever

I find this piece of dialog is helpful when remembering the single's mindset.

Preface: you have been chatting up a girl and now move for the close

SF: *use the funny and calibrate the girl before trying this* Normally I don't go out with people I have just met, fear of being sexually assaulted and all that, but if you feel you can control your raging femine urges; we should go get coffee after class.

Girl: Gee you are weird and I don't want to go get coffee with you, but we can still be friends right ?

SF: No that's okay, I have too many friends as it is. *walks away*

Or some varation of that...

__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

mtsgsd

Have they all said they just want to be friends or are you assuming that?
This reminds me of me when I was in High School. I had tons of girl "friends" who I hung around with and I mean a lot of them. But they only wanted to be friends after all. It wasn't untill about 5 years later that a girl I knew from then told me that I was considered really cute and most of them were hoping I get interested in them and were disappointed!!! WTF? ME? I just never saw myself that way! What a waste. LOL

Steenoob

I'm in a similar situation, Strange. I can list a few things about me that might take away from my general attractiveness, but tonight I'm joining a group of people to help me out with that by going to the gym regularly. I'm a pretty scrawny guy and have been for quite some time.

Putting the best "package" out there you can without changing your personality is a great way (only a theory of mine*) to get the girls. You said you were a little overweight, so maybe try shedding some pounds in a constructive environment with some real friends that recognize that you're trying to better yourself. Any motivation that includes, "Are you too much of a wimp, fatty!?" is not postitive at all.

[possible_hijack]
[catharsis]
*I say only a theory of mine because either I'm blind and can't pick up on signals from girls or there are none to begin with. I've read those 'guides' to try and see what's going on around me, but so far nothing. Though I catch myself... That's not entirely true. I am happy to say that things might be turning around for me and I don't think I've changed much about myself at all.

Though I do notice I keep quiet less. This probably has much to do with the fact that, while nerdy and unbecoming, I've been playing pen'n'paper RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons. This taught me to act like other people and fill others shoes. It showed me that not caring what others think of you (you really do end up acting like an ass sometimes), really helps. I think that confidence stems from apathy, but saying that may be dangerous. How about I'll just stick to, "everyone finds it differently?"
[/catharsis]
[/hijack]

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YUM!

macmanmike6100

I would suggest working on that self-confidence. If you work on that, without any thought given to those around you, you will start to exude a completely different persona, and attract completely different people. (no warranty, express or implied...)

AfterBurn

I consider you guys lucky, girls never want to be friends with me, they either just don't like me or they like me as like a potential boyfriend but alot of the times I just want to be friends instead so it never works out.

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smoking weed everyday keeps the doctor away

nanofever

And this is a problem because you are not into women ? I'm sure it is a rough life, but then again I can see this is one of those "grass is greener" things.

__________________
I'm leaving for the University of California: Santa Barbara in 5 hours, give me your best college advice - things I need, good ideas, bad ideas, nooky, ect.

Originally Posted by Norseman on another forum:
"Yeah, the problem with the world is the stupid people are all cocksure of themselves and the intellectuals are full of doubt."

ApexgriN

You don't really have to change the way you are, just use the "tactics" mentioned before to express it differently. I'm no expert, but I do know that these girls you want to be with are using tactics and strategies, they are the masters of it.

BTW "I'm a quiet natured player who outwardly hates the game..." -Sage Francis

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-
apexGrin

Strange Famous

Cool quote!

I think I am falling into the same trap again. there is an 18 year girl who has started work and she is going to be working with me and taking some of the work off me, I keep doing stupid things. I know it's wrong and unhelpful, but a part of me just can't stop myself

1 - showing how I have no self esteem and running myself down, just so she says "oh, dont say that, I dont think that"

2 - Acting clownish to make her laugh.

We get on really well, and we both make each other laugh a lot and stuff, but I know there is no way that she would ever look at me in a romantic way.

In a way, I probably wouldnt at her, Im 25 and she is nearly 19, so she is kind of but not quite too young - which is another thing, I feel I can be a lot more outgoing with someone I dont really anticipate there being any romance with. Plus in a way I feel sometimes maybe I almost encourage the things I know on one level will make someone not want to be with me, because its somehow safer than really wanting to get with someone and be rejected.

I mean, I know all the things people said here are true - and I'm alone now and not too confident, so getting rejected is just going to mean I'm still alone - I just find it really hard to get out of the pattern of the way I always act around girls - and I mean it is nice to make friends and get along with people, but I havent had a girlfriend for 3 years and it gets kind of lonely. There's a lot of times in life, especially when things are going better, and I think "hmm, it would be nice to be sharing this with someone"

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

Ustwo

Ok Strange famous I'll share with you the 'tricks' I learned from being a one night stander with no long term serious girls to dating several at the same time and I ended up marrying one of them.

#1 - Work out. You don't have to look very built but it helps the confidence a LOT. I don't know if its hormonal or just a state of mind, but working out changed my mindset quite a bit. I don't know if women have a ability to 'sense' fitness, but it seemed more were approaching me and interested in me after I had been working out for about 4 months then before. Maybe its some Darwinian genetic thing, or maybe something they could see, but it helped.

#2 - Treat them like an asshole, you are being to nice. Now before you say this isn't you, it doesn't have to be you, you just need to get them interested and involved with you, and THEN you can be 100% you. Let me explain. When I was only doing 'so-so' with women, I couldn't figure it out. I was nice, I was smart, I was pretty good looking, and I was sleeping alone WAY to often. Then I realized my problem, I was being to nice to girls, to attentive, to willing to please them. Sure many will SAY they want that, but sex doesn't think with the forebrain. What that says to a woman's gonads is 'He really wants you, lets see if you can get someone even better!'. They know they could have you and most will not be attracted to it. Maybe if you were an Adonis it wouldn't matter, but not many of us are. You need to make HER think you are not really that interested in her. Then it becomes a challenge, her gonads think 'hey I’m good enough for this guy, I bet I can get him!' and she is attracted to you. This sounds silly to a lot of people, and I've told this theory to mixed company before, and most girls would say in a group I was wrong, and then later several would talk to me and say I was right but they didn't want to say it in front of other people.

Now when I say treat them like an asshole that doesn't mean tell them to fuck off, beat them, or steal their lunch money. It just means be less attentive, less willing to please, and more willing to leave them alone. Be more aloof. Don't tell them your feelings on this and that, and they will WANT to know them. You won't start out a friend, but you may gain a lover. Then after she is dating you and the like you can lower your guard, so to speak, be yourself, and have a lot of sex too.

__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Mantus

Strange Famous, I know you have your principles. Many people feel the same as you do. But you have to remember something. “You can’t chase some one if they aren’t running away.” In this case, you want to be the one being chased. So if you are trying to please too much, or being too friendly then girls will just eat the bait and swim away, so you gota pull away a little.

Are looks important? NOPE. Don’t matter at all, all that your looks help with is boosting your own confidence. Now it sounds like you are already a social animal, and that’s a huge gift to have. Use it to your advantage! Your goal is to become a “catch” when chicks are talking about you, but it sounds like you got everything going for you, now all you go to do is show a little resistance.

So take the advice of some of these people. You don’t have to be an asshole. Just make yourself seem less needy. If girls like talking to you, make them compete for your attention. Don’t drop everything to please them the moment they come up. Try to end conversations yourself, don’t wait until she has to run – if they ask you to stay don’t always take the bait. See you can still be nice and funny and good to people just elevate yourself in priority a little.

Good luck, but you wont need it once you realize that you got all the cards in your hand, you just gota play them right.

Johnny Rotten

It sounds like you're defeating yourself by thinking too much about what's going on and what kind of prospect you are. We've all been there, and it's a nasty rut to get out of. I think what you have isn't a lack of confidence so much as insecurity. And you know, the best cure for that is diet and exercise. By exercise, I mean running and lifting weights, not a regular evening stroll. You want results? You gotta earn 'em. But it'll be worth it. By diet, I don't mean just cutting out a bunch of calories and/or fat. You have to look at a different, structured way of eating, whether it's Atkins or something prescribed by your doctor. You get out of it only what you put in. But diet and exercise will make you feel a lot better about yourself. So will buying some new clothes to fit your new body .

__________________
"The idea that money doesn't buy you happiness is a lie put about by the rich, to stop the poor from killing them." -- Michael Caine

DrJekyll

Here's the part of being aloof that I don't get...how do you meet girls and get to know them if you're acting aloof? Let's say I notice a girl in my class...I'm supposed to talk to her once, right? And then what? Not talk to her again? Well, that'll probably just result in us never talking again and going our separate ways.

isis

Its not so much about 'aloofness', I guess. People who talk to me once, then never again - I never have a second thought about.

I honestly still have the same problem as you. I was always "one of the boys" to the guys I was hanging out with in my earlier high school years, but now I actually get a little bit of attention. Honestly, my 'stopping caring' is what probably got me out of my rut. I didn't go out of my way to impress anyone, and I didn't do things in order to get with guys. Friendships developed, which turned into relationships.

Well, my advice completely sucks, so I'm sorry. My best best is probably just confidence building, and be the nice guy that you already are. Aloofness and cockyness doesn't get you anywhere. (In my books, anyways)

Cakewalk12

Honestly, like many have said here, looks don't matter at all... I work out quite a bit but I'm still pretty overweight and it's never stopped me

Whoever said "Work out" was right on the money. It really does help confidence a lot, makes you feel good, and even makes you look better too! It's not easy sometimes, but after a while you can't live without doing a bit of jogging or lifting some weights twice or three times a week.

What you need to do, and I learned this too in my younger years, is to be less of a "submissive nice guy" and more of a "alpha"... now I'm not saying turn yourself into a complete arsehole, because really even if girls like that I know you wouldn't like yourself inside. What I'm saying is when a girl asks for you to hold her purse while she goes outside to talk to some boy on her cell phone (not that this has ever happened to me before :P) tell her "no". You're not there to submit to her, you're trying to get her to (hopefully) submit to you. BE AGGRESSIVE. Even with female friends you have right now, you can not-so-easily change your status in the relationship in two fashions: 1. Leave for a few months and then meet again, it's like new most of the time. 2. Start doing a bit more physical interaction with them, nothing too insane, but arm touching, massaging, etc. If you make them feel good physically, and suddenly you're not being submissive to them, there is a (miniscule) chance you can escape the friend zone and actually get somewhere. (not saying there is any problem with the friend zone, if what you're looking for is female friends)

Or, honestly, you can just wait. Trust me, any relationship will occur to ANYONE if you just give it time. That's how come even the obnoxious losers you knew as a kid end up happily married later on.

Anyway, I hope my advice either helped, or at least didn't offend. Good luck on your quest for the pretty ladies!

aintyoboyfriend

this is right on point.

Unfortunately for them, Women cannot control who they are attracted to.

Typically women are looking for a strong provider, someone with confidence. You just need to approach things a little differently. Still be yourself, but don't be too complimentary, don't be too nice, and don't go too far out of your way to do things for girls. There will be plenty of time for all of that stuff when you find the right one.

HFrankenstein

Sorry if somebody already said this, but man are there ever some long posts to read in this thread.

Anyhoo, clearly you have no problem getting acquainted with women, or they wouldn't even have the opportunity to give you the friends excuse. I noticed, however, that your original post is absolutely riddled with self-deprecation. No doubt you're more willing to be emo to people you've never spoken to in person, but this does show a great deal of self-underconfidence on your part. A lot of times (most times), this can lead to a guy opening up way too much to a girl he has feelings for, which can scare a girl off, usually resulting in the tried-and-true "friends" bail-out. I used to have this problem ALL the time.

If you're being good and not, in fact, opening up like this, then the problem is probably just the lack of self-confidence in and of itself. You may think you're covering it up, but women can sense these things.

I've found that a good solution for gaining self-confidence, is to just fake it until you believe it yourself. I know that sounds sketchy, but when you do something enough, it becomes natural, to the point where the problem disappears.

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When in doubt, sauerkraut.

wolke

half a year ago my best friend said 'i'd never go out with you cause we're just friends'
now we've been happily going out for 3 months

Carly

It's all about confidence Strange Famous. You can be as ugly as you want (well, to a point), but if you can pull off the confidence/hint of arrogance routine without being a complete rabbit, your basically home.

As HFrankenstein said, too much self-deprecation. Be a little more arrogant, and a lot more confident, and things will change. Sure, be the gentleman, but only after she knows what you want and is still sticking around.

Another thing, when a girl says 'Your like a brother' or words to that effect, get out of there. I've used that old chestnut plenty of times, and I'll tell you right now, I say that after I know I never want to sleep with them. If she just want to be friends, walk away, you seem like you have plenty of female friends, who needs another? Worst case scenario is she never speaks to you again... more time to continue your search. Best case scenario, she likes the new you!

Good luck!!!

Strange Famous

Well, the problem is I occasionaly do switch to a "David Brent" impression, and start making random and ridicolous boasts, like:

"Georgio Armini designed this suit for me, well actually I basically designed it, he said to me "Adam thats the best suit I've ever seen in my life, you could millions of pounds doing that" but I said "Nah, I make SHIT LOADS in Financial accounting", but
anyway, he wanted to make it up, it's a one of a kind..."

I was telling a girl at work that last week anyway. But other than joking super arrogance, I really have a hard time acting confident - because basically I am not, and at the back of my mind is always the assumption that people dont really want to hang around me, or that they only will if I make them laugh, and that although people might like me, they wouldnt ever really LIKE me. I mean, objectively, I can see that this is a problem and acting the way I do increases it, but when you really feel it I guess its hard to change.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas

HFrankenstein

I see. Well then, it sounds to me like you're very much aware of your problem with self-confidence, but you don't quite have the willpower or the knowledge to really counteract it. Maybe you just need some extra help. Have you considered seeing a professional about this?

__________________
When in doubt, sauerkraut.

Strange Famous

I never really considered professional help - I guess I just think I'll muddle along and one day find someone that see's something in me that she likes, and I like her - and we live happily for a while at least.

__________________
"Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate,
for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing
hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain
without being uncovered."

The Gospel of Thomas