Halx

Here is my rant.

Straight • Bisexual • Gay

The common misconception among people today is that if you show ANY signs of attraction towards the same sex, then you are gay. THIS IS NOT TRUE. There is a reason why it's called PREFERENCE.

I consider myself straight, however there are a few men's bodies that can turn me on. Hell, the thought of men jacking off only leads me to imagine myself jacking off. Granted, I am not interested in having sex with a guy at this point, not a blow job or a hand job either. However, if I were to do so (actually have done in the past) it does not make me gay. I'm still sitting here, typing to you, and I crave women like nothing else!

What makes someone gay? It's simple, really. If a guy PREFERS intimate relationships with men over women, then he is gay, and he will readily admit it to himself. In fact, sex has very little to do with any part of being gay or straight. "Sexual" in "Sexual Preference" refers to the gender of one's desired partner, and not the actual activity of sex. Are you all following me?

Bisexual, is actually separate from Gay/Straight. I may be slightly off on this, but here is how I understand it. Of all the bisexual people I've met, they tend to have a sexual preference (man or woman) for relationships but enjoy sex with both parties just the same. In this way, Bi is just a label one gives oneself as being sexually open and able to swing either way in bed. There may be a minority who can accept intimate companionship from both sides, but my experiences and education lead me to believe this label is merely for show.

In conclusion, if I were to have sex with my best buddy who is gay, I wouldn't *instantly* be gay. I may consider being Bi if I enjoyed it though. Gay/Straight/Bi is all in the head of the individual.

*Fini*

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

WhoaitsZ

to be gay, i'd think you'd have to want to BE with someone of the same sex. to say any attraction at all is gay is silly.

BoCo

So what are you?

__________________
Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

Halx

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

Clacker

Let me see if I got this right. If I suck a cock but perfer women I'm straight, unless I liked it, in which case I'm bisexual. Hummm, now lets see the math add up here.


Lets say I put a blind fold on you. Tell you there a woman in font of you with her ass in the air and tell you to have fun fucking her ass. Best ass you ever had. I take the blindfold off and you see you just fucked a guy up the ass and you loved it. You're gay, right?

World's King

Pleasure is Pleasure.

__________________
heavy is the head that wears the crown

Halx

Clacker, stop being ignorant, we have punishments for that.

My point is that you are not anything you dont intend yourself to be. Actions do not make you gay, preferences do.

__________________
You have found this post informative.
-The Administrator
[Don't Feed The Animals]

MacGnG

Preference is preference and some have none. Pick who you wish and have some fun. Be safe.

CityOfAngels

Makes sense. I mean, if you get American History X'ed, or American Me'd, it doesn't mean you're gay. It just means your ass isn't a virgin anymore.

__________________
The words "love" and "life" go together. It is almost as if they are one. You must love to live, and you must live to love, or you have never lived nor loved at all.

Clacker

Hey I'm a rock, I was just following your logic which was a tad flawed. I knew what you ment I just wanted to hear you say it. BTW, what kind of punishemnt??? and what for? last I checked stupid is not a crime or did you mean something else?

raeanna74

I think I get what you mean. 2 years ago I would have considered myself completely straight. After a couple sexual adventures with women and finding that I enjoyed it I called myself "Bi-curious". BUT I didn't really consider myself Bi-sexual until I found myself watching women "checking" them out and seeking out women to pick up. I still prefer men but I also seek out women. Once I got to that point, I truely considered myself Bi. I mean you can try something and ENJOY it but if you aren't very interested in making it happen again it was just an experiment, an adventure. Once you desire that sort of thing to happen repeatedly and make an effort (however slight) to make it happen that you are really into it.

FOr example - I could paint a picture and it turn out very well. YET if I don't continue painting pictures that turn out well I wouldn't consider myself and Artist by name - The the artist of ONE picture. Does that make sense?

__________________
"Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama
My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

angela146

OK, I can't quite experience this as you suggest. However, let's add a couple of factors:

• Women and men smell different and that is a *big* part of sexual attraction.
• The pheromones from a woman or man are also different. You can't smell them but they act on your brain, changing the sexual experience
• men and women feel different (usually) including muscles, hair etc.

So, if I were blindfolded and a person lay next to me kissing me and touching my naughty bits, I would be affected by the maleness or femaleness of my lover on a whole bunch of levels, some of which I'm not even conscious of.

angela146

Hi Hal,

A lot of this is a matter of name-calling. Some people want to put people into categories so that they know whether or not to be prejudiced against them (i.e. are you one of "those people").

Those of us who are accepting of people regardless of sexual orientation don't care so much about applying labels.

Second, even if you set the name-calling aside, Gay, Bi and Straight aren't "buckets". They are points along a continuum. Trying to draw a line between Gay and Bi is like trying to draw a line between blonde and brown hair. At exactly what point is hair blonde enough to be blonde?

Third, there is a "having sex" dimension and a "making a life with" dimension. You might enjoy having sex with a man but not want to marry him and spend your life with him. On the other hand, you might not like sex with men but be perfectly comfortable living with a male roommate for a long period of time.

On this level, if you add the "making a life with" dimension to the "having sex with" dimension, it makes it easier to decide if you want to call yourself gay. I would call myself gay (lesbian) if I were making a life with a woman *and* having sex with her on a regular basis, even if I sometimes enjoyed sex with men sometimes.

Finally, there is one really valuable reason to give yourself a label: it is a way of telling someone what level of interest you have in having sex with them.

This is along the lines you describe: "a label one gives oneself as being sexually open and able to swing either way in bed".

In your case, if you described yourself as "bi-curious" that would go a long way toward letting someone know something useful. If you made overtures to (or accepted overtures from) a bi or gay man having told him you were "bi-curious" he would (hopefully) know enough to take it really slow and let you get used to it one step at a time.

BTW: there are a lot of people out there who are hetero only because their bi interests were beaten or ridiculed out of them when they were young and vulnerable (ages 3-10). A man I know very well falls into that category. He can have fun with a man *only* if there is an incredible degree of trust *and* if his (female) SO is there to be part of it. Without that, he isn't able to admit to himself that he has those desires.

*Nikki*

Damn I am tired of labels.

I like women, I like men. I like sex. It is just that simple.

People should be able to choose freely who they want to fuck without being put into a category.

EleqTrizi'T

A parapraph or three from the Land of Machismo.

A guy tells me, "Yeah I'm not gay, but I've sucked a dick". I think, "He's gay, cause I wouldn't even consider it.

To me, straight = wouldn't even consider any homosexual acts, much less do them, because they are not vaguely attracted to the same sex.

To me, gay = everything else.

Call it ignorant, arrogant, whatever. I'm labeling you, you don't get to label yourself. Just in the same way I'm sure you're dying to label my post ignorant, it won't really matter that I say it's not. Does it?

EleqTrizi'T

BTW I agree with Nikki to extent. Labels don't bother me. What really bothers me are the consequences of the labels you're assigned. Which I think lead us to the same place of disgust.

nulltype

I thought it was called "orientation".

Personally, I don't think it really matters. Do I care if someone may or may not be gay because they sometimes maybe sorta like looking at men and or women and or having sex with either? Nope.

__________________
Gib mir mein Destillat / Gib mir mein Alltagstot / Gib mir mein Gnadenbrot / zur Ewigkeit

aintyoboyfriend

I definitely agree with this. Especially after getting flack from some people not that long ago, for being able to say that another guy is attractive. Apparently, in their perception, that made me gay, even though I would never have any sexual relations with a man.

EleqTrizi'T

Is that all you said? I mean if that's all you said, that is definetely silly.

Spinach_Indeed

Ayup. Just agreeing with Nikki like others in this thread. I like who I like. Whether it's a Woman or a Man, or even a Sasquatch for that matter.

__________________
Spinach in Need is Spinach Indeed

cronopio

I'm straight. I'm not attracted to men, though there are some that I think are sexy or I can understand why people would think they are sexy.

I think sexual orientation is much more fluid. There are so many factors that determine why a person would have sex with another person. What we desire is not under our control, preference is not under our control. How we act on our preferences and desires is.

My question is why is that need to identify as one kind or another? It is definitely easier to be heterosexual in mainstream society, but other than that who cares?

Just my 2 cents.

__________________
Tu causes, tu causes, c'est tout ce que tu sais faire.

-- Zazie dans le metro

cheerios

cronopio: because when people don't understand something, they try to make it black and white. grey is scary. grey means you can be in there somewhere. you don't want to be something you fear. "gay is bad" is so much safer than "gay is not something I am interested in, but Johnny Depp is kinda handsome". Plus... what'll the guys think, if they know Depp's cute? It's a lesson in mob mentality, almost.

me, i'm labelless. i have juan, all my crushes up to him have been female. :shrug: make of that what you will, I'll just be over here being happy.

MSD

I'm not opposed to sex with a guy, but everyone I've been attracted to has been female. If I were really attracted to a guy, I wouldn't let a label stop me.

rodgerd

Your understanding is wrong, and the way you've chosen to express it is insulting.

rodgerd

Dingdingdingdingding.

We have a winner!

Sexuality is a lot more complex than a few labels, and while gay/bi/straight provide some useful quick sketches, they don't really cover the range of human experience; so-called "situational homosexuality" is a good example, where, eg, sailors, will have and enjoy sex with men when women aren't available, but prefer women when they are.

cheesemoney

Christ. I don't give a fuck what people do as long as they leave the farm animals out of it.
Cheese

MacGnG

HAVE SEX WITH WHOM EVER YOU WANT.

what do you need a label for? to tell other ppl what you are?
tell them whatever you want, don't use the "standard" label

I like girls, and i want to have sex with them. i recognize hansom men as such but thats as far as it goes.

daoist

my sexual preference is: often. :-D

my girlfriend recently asked me if I'd still love her if she got a sex-change operation. she isn't considering it; it was more of a thought-game. It was a really hard question to answer. I think I would, but the thought of doin a dude just, well, it's not what I like.

what sort of hole you prefer isn't really a preference at all. so many people think that gays can just "snap out of it" or something. it's hard for me to comprehend, but to my uber-ghey friend adam the thought of having sex with a girl is just as disgusting as the thought of having sex with a man is to me. It's just how people are wired.

__________________
I:IV:XV

woopdee

I am straight, but I am turned on by a nice male body, but not in a sexual way, but because I imagine myself having a body similar to he whom I am looking at. It's an erotic experience in it's own right, but nowhere near the excitement of a female body

angela146

When I think about having sex with a woman, I think of fun, pleasure, cuddlies, warmth, a connection on a friendship level etc. I don't have the intense, hungry, "God I *want* her to fuck me" feeling. Only men do that to me.

I think that's one difference between being a hetero bi-sexual and being a lesbian bi-sexual.

itchy93

I really am amazed at how open-minded people here are. It's refreshing.

Though I'm not sure if this is a little off-topic from Hal's original post, I will ask this: what would Hal's definition label me as?

Physically/Sexually, I have no interest in men. I'm not against the idea, I'm just naturally not enticed by men; I only find women sexually/intimately desirable. However, I will openly acknowledge that a man is handsome, sexy, or attractive, though I am not attracted to him.

Emotionally/Spiritually, I'm open. I've often thought that it's possible I'll never find what I want in a women (I haven't even come close so far), and I'm not opposed to the idea of loving a man; I think I'd be cool with a strong, platonic, lifelong heterosexual thing (a la Jay and Silent Bob). Again, I obviously have the "natural"/social preference towards women, but I wouldn't reject the idea of spending my life with a man.

But here's the monkey wrench: sex means next to nothing to me. I'm not the guy who wants to get laid, I'm not the guy who wants to have sex with his girlfriend; if anything I would "make love" to a life partner. Short of that, actual sexual activity does not fit my personal morals and beliefs. Still, I have found myself only attracted to (and in love with) women.

That being said, what would you make of my "sexual" preference? Just curious-- er--- wondering.

Itchy93

__________________
That's just my opinion; I could be wrong.

angela146

Absolutely!

Quote:

That being said, what would you make of my "sexual" preference? Just curious-- er--- wondering. Itchy93

Straight and tollerant.

If you can't see yourself with another guy's penis in your hand, I think that leaves you out of being bi.

Met22

Gay / Straight goes beyond sex.
It's relationship and that involves love.
Love and sex are two separate things and you can have one without the other but one can be an expression of the other.
It goes to what sets you off emotionally.
Sex is sex and sometimes different stuff makes you get off.
Catagorization is really worthless because it divides people and this world is about hooking up. I'm straight and I don't see me going otherwise but if I see someone else what is the big deal. It's a short life be happy, forget labels. To thyself be true

__________________
Living on the west end dreaming of the theater playing in the Metropolis - Dream the Dream Live the Dream

siryn

Here is one of my favorite ways to deal with this label situation. Basically, there is so much gray area between gay, bi, and straight, that I agree with Halx, that it is all in the mind of the individual and how they identify themself. True, when discussing another person's sexuality, people are prone to choosing the label, but give the person the benefit of the doubt...if they're unsure, they're unsure.

To get to the first sentence, my friend had this theory of "percentages." She said that basically, the number of people who prefer one sex 100% to 0% is extremely rare, and that at one point, everyone might think that someone of the same sex is attractive, even if that only happens once, you might be 99% to 1%. So when she was trying to figure out someone's preference, she would explain this, and ask what they considered their preference to be. Also, she and I agreed that percentages fluxuate, and would give each other daily updates. For instance, I'm bi, so under normal circumstances, I would say that I'm about attracted to 60% females and 40% males. This, of course can be further subdivided into emotional attraction and physical, but we'll keep it simple. As for adjustments, I'm in a relationship with a guy right now, so my percentage is totally different, because he totally satisfies my male-wanting side. Today and lately I would say I'm 90% female, 10% male.

XenuHubbard

I figure that in the end, it comes down to love.

Could you be in a loving relationship with the same sex, opposite sex, or both? Then the mentioned pigeon-holes apply.

Sex itself can be a very empty thing, used for instant gratification.
It can also be an act of love. Just a sexual act by itself is a very thin base for any assumptions.

Look at all the people looking for one-night stands, and how many of them don't care about their sex partner one bit.

__________________
The above was written by a true prophet. Trust me.

"What doesn't kill you, makes you bitter and paranoid". - SB2000

striker3303

In my ever so amazing eyes, individuality is all that separates us. Your life is in your hands, therefore, I will not judge you/can not judge you. It is no persons place to judge another person. I just rock in my socks, and hope that you do the same!!!!!!

__________________
Green mustard is the salvation

tisonlyi

Sexuality as multichoice.

How quaint.

Anyone ever heard of shades of grey?

A chap i once knew had a thing for sperm. facials in particular.

He didn't care if the receiver of the facial was male or female, he had fantasies of having sperm launched all over his own face.

Did he want to engage in a meaningful relationship with men? no.

Did he want to be soundly rogered in the rear by nigel, from just downt he road? no.

Did he love and care for his gf? yes.

Did he crave sexual congress with many and various lasses? yes.

but he still had a thing for getting creamed on.

sexuality and stimulation aren't a checkbox type deal.

Whatever floats your boat.

__________________
"I do not agree that the dog in a manger has the final right to the manger even though he may have lain there for a very long time. I do not admit that right. I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place." - Winston Churchill, 1937 --{ORLY?}--

motdakasha

I mostly agree with you. I think Het and Gay are two definitive points at the opposite ends of the continuum. Each of these prefer only one gender. Here's where my opinion differs slightly: I think Bi-sexual is a term used to explain/lump/label the entire middle section of the continuum. And I'd like to add that a lot of bi-sexuals often prefer one gender over another. It's really quite rare that someone will prefer each gender equally.

I also agree with siryn in that preference is ever-changing based on personal experiences. And to be truly hetero or truly homo is near impossible.

So, in a horrible ASCII example, this is what I think the continuum would look like:

^Het^-(bi-curious)--(__________Bi-sexual__________)--(bi-curious)-^Gay^

^^ represents a definite point, where () symbolizes mushy boundaries.

Personally, I don't know if I am placeable on this continuum because I hold no preferences. I go with what I think I will enjoy. I couldn't care less about what gender you are. I see that some others seem to live by this rule of thumb as well. I call it fun-osexual. :P

__________________
=^-^= motdakasha =^-^=
Just Google It.
BA Psychology & Photography
(I'm not going psychoanalyze you nor will I let you cry on my shoulder. Have a nice day.)

Thraeryn

Wow, there've been lots of good posts on this. I definitely agree with angela146 in that, if you're a guy and can't imagine having a cock in your hand, you're not bi. (Or gay, but that goes without saying.) I'm also behind tisonlyi's point that having one or two non-gender-specific fantasies doesn't necessarily make one bi or gay.

I think that what it really comes down to is novelty. For the bi-curious, having sexual relations with a member of their own sex is going to have a feeling of novelty to it. "Look at this fun, new thing I'm doing!" The true test then, I believe, is their feelings when it stops being novel and new. Is it still fun, or is it something you've done and didn't mind, but don't care about?

(Of course, for some, it might not ever lose its novelty. . . . )

cherylcannady

I had to jump in on this thread because I've spent the last six years trying to label my own sexuality. Finally, I've concluded that I can't.

Hard femme, soft butch, sappho silk, whatever. When I was a practicing lesbian, I didn't fit into a category. The closest I came to was 'chapstick lesbian.' That didn't even fit very well. I just knew I loved women and their bodies.

Even when I considered myself a lesbian, I still had exceptions. Certain guy friends of mine would be on my 'exceptional' list. That was the list of people that I would have a sexual relationship with because I was attracted to them. There have never been more than two guys on that list, but there was always one. I get really turned on by the cute butch lesbians out there, but I get like a giggly school girl around them. A beautiful femme really gets me going too. Who knows?

I am still not attracted to the body of a man. Looking at penises does not turn me on. The reason why I'm able to function sexually with Mr.S is that we share sexual adventures, he understands my needs, and it's all about pleasure and love and trust. He turns me on because I know how he can make me feel, and I know how much he enjoys what I can do to his body. It works out nicely that way.

It's kind of fun. We rent a lot of porn, buy a lot of sleazy magazines. He's amused and quite turned on by my reactions to naked women. He gets teased a lot that he's just marrying me because of the prospect of a threesome. We probably will do that later in life, but that's besides the point.

I believe that sexuality can be very fluid; it's so personal. It cannot be the same for everybody. Labels don't work.

I'm not gay, bisexual, or straight. I'm just Cheryl.

__________________
~I wonder who I am today. Any ideas?