Sexual Behaviour - How much of it is learned? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

little_tippler · 02-02-2009, 06:52 AM

I was thinking about the way people act during sexual intercourse or in the moments leading up to it. How much of what we do is actually something we instinctively feel compelled to do and how much of it is something we saw someone else doing (in photos or film, written text, or even real life)?

To be honest, I have no idea for myself. I can only say that the first sexual experience I had was totally instinctive as I had never had any contact with anything sexual, visually speaking, before. But since that, I feel that the more I have seen and learned, the more I have acquired certain ways of doing things. And in a way, I don't like it. Sometimes I feel like it's putting on a performance. Lots of it is good, and when I'm into the sex, it's all good and I know I am reacting more naturally. The fact that these days we all have access to porn of all kinds and there are these amazing women with perfect bodies who do crazy sexual stunts, leads us all (as women, I can't say for men), to try to achieve certain things we'd probably never dream of doing, or want to do, had we not felt pressured into it to some degree, in the hopes of 'competing' for men's attention.

So how much of what you do, sexually, do you think, is coming from your own natural instincts? And how much of it did you pick up from somewhere? Does it all feel the same to you, is it all natural, regardless? Do you feel pressured to learn so that you can be 'better in the sack'?

Sometimes I wish I didn't have access to so much information and wasn't so shaped by society. We all are, to some extent. But then, though simplicity can mean that you are happy with less, the key, to me, is in finding the simplicity/satisfaction once you have a greater amount of knowledge. But, it's no easy task.

Manic_Skafe · 02-02-2009, 09:12 AM

I'm still sorting the bullshit from what I'd imagine to be my instinctual preferences.

Being raised by deeply religious parents, I pretty much grew up on porn.

I feel bad for my first few partners but I learned pretty quickly that ramming it in like Ron Jeremy whilst flexing and kissing your biceps is pretty far from romantic.

Yellow Tulip · 02-02-2009, 11:07 AM

The day I lost my virginity was the first time I had seen a naked man, I had never seen any porn, either films or magazines. I only knew what went where. My first experience went fine, I learned a lot and have been learning ever since. It's like life - we keep learning as we go along, we try new things, we use our imagination - something either works or it doesn't, it's all a learning experience and before long we build up a considerable repertoire.

I feel no pressure whatsoever to learn new things. I'm curious, and always like to know what pleases a new partner, but I don't feel it's necessary to impress with any sort of sexual tricks. I'm not sure what crazy sexual stunts you are referring to and I question whether anyone should feel they have to engage in anything they don't want to do. Sex is about you and your partner enjoying your bodies together. Would you really want a partner who expected you to do things you didn't want to? You need a partner who you feel comfortable with, who wants you for you, not because you can pull some sort of sexual trick. Most men are just pleased to get a woman into bed.

World's King · 02-02-2009, 11:37 AM

I don't know...

For guys I think it's a little different. We don't really have to know much at first. Stick it in. Thrust a few times back and forth. Kiss her. Tell her she's pretty. Choke her a little... pull out then come in her eye.

Willravel · 02-02-2009, 11:54 AM

Innate: attraction to favorable survival traits like intelligence and good health, attraction to erogenous body parts, the impulse to actively pursue, (mostly for men) the impulse to provide food, shelter and amenities, (mostly for women) the want to appear attractive leading to things like makeup. Oh, the the pistoning.

Environment, intellect: attraction to popular traits, choosing a particular body part that one most enjoys in a mate, appreciation of quirky or unique behavior, looking for common interests, more advanced foreplay—more than just general kissing, sucking, petting, etc.—like learning particular sexual needs of an individual, different sexual positions, and deciding who cleans the sheets.

These are of course just things I've noticed. I don't know how common this could be applied, and to be honest I've forgotten a bit of my sexuality courses from college.

lostgirl · 02-02-2009, 12:29 PM

I watched a lot of porn before ever having sex. My first boyfriend didn't believe I was a virgin when we first had sex, because I seemed too experienced.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

appreciation of quirky or unique behavior, looking for common interests, more advanced foreplay—more than just general kissing, sucking, petting, etc.—like learning particular sexual needs of an individual, different sexual positions, and deciding who cleans the sheets.

This is also true, as we go along we learn what each individual partner likes.

dlish · 02-02-2009, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I don't know...

For guys I think it's a little different. We don't really have to know much at first. Stick it in. Thrust a few times back and forth. Kiss her. Tell her she's pretty. Choke her a little... pull out then come in her eye.

so much for romance... and to think i had your quote in my signature all this time....

on the topic - its a thought provoking question. one that ive asked myself many times but have been unable (probably unwilling) to answer.

i do however feel sorry for the women because they do have to meet the expectations of men who have had years and years of pornstars ingrained into their psyche.

braisler · 02-02-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

i do however feel sorry for the women because they do have to meet the expectations of men who have had years and years of pornstars ingrained into their psyche.

I don't know about this. It is a topic that keeps coming up again and again and I just think that it is patently false. I'm a man who has seen his fair share of porn over the years. Does it affect my sexual expectations from my partner? Nope. Not at all. Porn is make-believe. It is entertainment for entertainment's sake. It would be the equivalent of saying that if I watched hours and hours of movies about friendly, flying dragons I would suddenly have the expectation that one would show up on my doorstep to fly me to work each morning. I similarly do not expect DD cupped bisexuals to gobble my knob as soon as I step into a room.

To answer the question: I think that a lot of sexual behavior is learned. I think that a lot of what we feel during sex is instinctual. I would say that my sexual instinct drives me to want to get off in the most pleasurable way possible usually directly as possible, but my sexual behavior dictates that I also focus on the pleasure of my partner. I have learned that I often want a repeat performance with my sexual partner, immediately, in the near future, and in the long term. The best way to ensure this is to allow some instinct and some learned behavior to control my actions. I guess that may be getting a bit existential or drawing too fine a point on things.

Willravel · 02-02-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish

i do however feel sorry for the women because they do have to meet the expectations of men who have had years and years of pornstars ingrained into their psyche.

Fake orgasms from plastic people can't compare with the real thing. If anything, I think pornography under-prepared me for the experience.

Xerxys · 02-02-2009, 04:29 PM

Porn has never once influenced my habits when it comes to ... anything at all. As Willravel may have said, I was underprepared. The feelings I got my first time, I dont think can be described by anything else besides experience. Books and films just constitute erotica when they try to describe it.

Lately I found myself behaving just as I may have once saw during porn but I never acted like that because I was 'taught' how to react to it .. I just reacted. I dont think I've changed how I express myself though.

Plan9 · 02-02-2009, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

Fake orgasms from plastic people can't compare with the real thing.

ALSO SEE: Girls from California.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Willravel

If anything, I think pornography under-prepared me for the experience.

DID YOU MEAN: Feelings.

...
-----Added 2/2/2009 at 07 : 58 : 56-----

Quote:

Originally Posted by braisler

I don't know about this. It is a topic that keeps coming up again and again and I just think that it is patently false. I'm a man who has seen his fair share of porn over the years. Does it affect my sexual expectations from my partner? Nope. Not at all. Porn is make-believe. It is entertainment for entertainment's sake. It would be the equivalent of saying that if I watched hours and hours of movies about friendly, flying dragons I would suddenly have the expectation that one would show up on my doorstep to fly me to work each morning. I similarly do not expect DD cupped bisexuals to gobble my knob as soon as I step into a room.

To answer the question: I think that a lot of sexual behavior is learned. I think that a lot of what we feel during sex is instinctual. I would say that my sexual instinct drives me to want to get off in the most pleasurable way possible usually directly as possible, but my sexual behavior dictates that I also focus on the pleasure of my partner. I have learned that I often want a repeat performance with my sexual partner, immediately, in the near future, and in the long term. The best way to ensure this is to allow some instinct and some learned behavior to control my actions. I guess that may be getting a bit existential or drawing too fine a point on things.

You, sir, are a genius. Allow me to buy you a beer sometime.

ASU2003 · 02-02-2009, 06:38 PM

As a virgin, I can only imagine what it would be like and what I would do. But there aren't too many differences from my fantasies of a pre-porn 15 year old me, and what I would want to do today. If I would have had sex with this girl in high school before I had seen porn and again at the 10 year reunion, I wouldn't have changed very much. I might work longer on making her cum, and would focus on other areas besides the erogenous zones, but I think most of it would still be instictive rather than (I saw this done, I need to do it, or I read this in Cosmo, let's try it).

There are a few things that I would have never thought about doing without seeing them in porn, but still I'm not too big of a fan of these things and wouldn't really want to do any of them. Doggy style, pulling out and cumming on her face, anal, rough sex, fake boobs,...

inBOIL · 02-02-2009, 08:11 PM

Sexual behavior is not very different from other kinds of interpersonal behavior in this regard. Humans are mimics; we spend a lot of time and effort trying to figure out how we should act and suppress our instincts. Sex is a little different because the templates we have to work off of tend to be more caricaturish or sparse than the templates we're given for other behaviors. It enhances the obviousness of the learned/natural dichotomy in human behavior.

settie · 02-03-2009, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little_tippler

I was thinking about the way people act during sexual intercourse or in the moments leading up to it. How much of what we do is actually something we instinctively feel compelled to do and how much of it is something we saw someone else doing (in photos or film, written text, or even real life)?

So how much of what you do, sexually, do you think, is coming from your own natural instincts? And how much of it did you pick up from somewhere? Does it all feel the same to you, is it all natural, regardless? Do you feel pressured to learn so that you can be 'better in the sack'

Good questions, I'm glad you made this thread ltippler

I am confident in saying 100% of what I do in bed is what I instinctively feel compelled to do, every time. I am naturally empathetic, I crave that connection from sex, and can easily switch between what I want, what I want to do, and what that man wants.

I've watched porn before, but never really "picked up" any moves from what I've seen. I look for hot sex, connective sex, the kind of sex you rarely see in porn, except amateur stuff. And even then, if I find it, I just think "wow, that is HOT"

I'm so lucky to have a man that wants that same connection. We just instinctively know what to do when, it all feels impulsive and much desired. We've never taken a pause mid-sex and said "let me try this..." lol

I think if we did want to try something different we saw or heard about, we'd discuss it when we're not having sex, and then if we were both interested, it'd somehow fit its way in at some point.

I definitely don't let what is so popular in the porn industry dictate my own sex life.

Hyacinthe · 02-03-2009, 01:00 AM

The best porn I have ever seen (with the exceptions of the Pirates movies and Porn wars - both hilarious) was a short amateur clip. Was a girl going down on her other half, almost gagging herself but she was so determined to learn to deep throat him (was an instructional video so I could learn to deep throat various things for work) and when she's working on it you can just see his genitalia and his hands, he spent the majority of his time just stroking her hair out of her face, trying to keep it out of her eyes. For some reason those little gestures were far more arousing then watching her blowing him because they showed that there was an actual connection between the two people involved. You don't see that in porn an actual emotional connection between the two participants often and never outside of amateur stuff.

Sorry that was off topic I know but kinda followed on from setties post

I don't rely on porn to learn anything in regards to sex I mean some of the positions they get themselves into just look awkward and I know they would do absolutely nothing for me. I tend to go much more by instinct, mainly because during a big part of my brain shuts off and all I am thinking is "Oh frick that feels good"

So I don't think much of it for me is learned behaviour at all - unless it's something little like playing with his balls while I ride him because I KNOW he will enjoy that. That's partially learned because I know intellectually that they're generally much more sensitive then the penis itself.

But the kissing and tastting and biting and scratching is all instinctual and I think he enjoys that as much if not more then when I am totally into the sex act itself and my brain is not able to remember things on an intellectual level.

settie · 02-03-2009, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hyacinthe

The best porn I have ever seen (with the exceptions of the Pirates movies and Porn wars - both hilarious) was a short amateur clip. Was a girl going down on her other half, almost gagging herself but she was so determined to learn to deep throat him (was an instructional video so I could learn to deep throat various things for work) and when she's working on it you can just see his genitalia and his hands, he spent the majority of his time just stroking her hair out of her face, trying to keep it out of her eyes. For some reason those little gestures were far more arousing then watching her blowing him because they showed that there was an actual connection between the two people involved. You don't see that in porn an actual emotional connection between the two participants often and never outside of amateur stuff.

Sorry that was off topic I know but kinda followed on from setties post

I don't rely on porn to learn anything in regards to sex I mean some of the positions they get themselves into just look awkward and I know they would do absolutely nothing for me. I tend to go much more by instinct, mainly because during a big part of my brain shuts off and all I am thinking is "Oh frick that feels good"

So I don't think much of it for me is learned behaviour at all - unless it's something little like playing with his balls while I ride him because I KNOW he will enjoy that. That's partially learned because I know intellectually that they're generally much more sensitive then the penis itself.

But the kissing and tastting and biting and scratching is all instinctual and I think he enjoys that as much if not more then when I am totally into the sex act itself and my brain is not able to remember things on an intellectual level.

*bows* you said it all so much better than I could! Cheers.

Hyacinthe · 02-03-2009, 06:09 AM

Personally i thought I was completely rambling and on the verge of incoherency - glad you understand me settie cause sometimes I sure don't!

girldetective · 02-03-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlish
i do however feel sorry for the women because they do have to meet the expectations of men who have had years and years of pornstars ingrained into their psyche.

Actually dlish, I feel sorry for you dudes setting yourself up for disappointment. I dont have to meet anyone's expectations other than my own, and i dont even have to meet those.

*

My thoughts in re the OP reflect braisler's above.

dlish · 02-04-2009, 12:20 PM

so you guys are telling me that guys instictively learn bukake, and instinctingly give golden showers, and instintingly crave BDSM.

let me put it another way...if a man and a woman, lived on a deserted island without the influence of the outside world, i dare say that their sex lives would probably consist of not much more than a handful of positions at most. everything else would be a learnt behaviour, would it not?

oh..and a bow to hyacinthe! all hail!

Hyacinthe · 02-08-2009, 12:02 AM

I go away for a week come back and find all hailing me - awesomeness!!

I guess the reason I feel porn has such a small influence for me and my other half is that for us sex isn't work and porn is.

Things like bukkake, golden showers and the like are work. He sells things about it and gets given dvd's of it that he has to watch. Bukkake is one of the major reasons that I take a giant tub of sorbolene to work with me or on a hot day will do a show in a kiddy pool filled with milk (cheap powdered crud)

We with our lifestyle are able to seperate 'work / porn' and our sex life, you have to in our industry or you'll go mad.

I'm not sure if like dlish I include BDSM in that - for my opinion in regards to BDSM go find that "Is BDSM a sex kink" thread - I should link it but I am lazy. I think that without porn I would still crave pain and submission, in every relationship (even the ones you think are equal) there is always one person dominant and one submissive, some of us just embrace that role more then others.

02-02-2009, 06:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
little_tippler Leaning against the -Sun- Super Moderator Location: on the other side	Sexual Behaviour - How much of it is learned? I was thinking about the way people act during sexual intercourse or in the moments leading up to it. How much of what we do is actually something we instinctively feel compelled to do and how much of it is something we saw someone else doing (in photos or film, written text, or even real life)? To be honest, I have no idea for myself. I can only say that the first sexual experience I had was totally instinctive as I had never had any contact with anything sexual, visually speaking, before. But since that, I feel that the more I have seen and learned, the more I have acquired certain ways of doing things. And in a way, I don't like it. Sometimes I feel like it's putting on a performance. Lots of it is good, and when I'm into the sex, it's all good and I know I am reacting more naturally. The fact that these days we all have access to porn of all kinds and there are these amazing women with perfect bodies who do crazy sexual stunts, leads us all (as women, I can't say for men), to try to achieve certain things we'd probably never dream of doing, or want to do, had we not felt pressured into it to some degree, in the hopes of 'competing' for men's attention. So how much of what you do, sexually, do you think, is coming from your own natural instincts? And how much of it did you pick up from somewhere? Does it all feel the same to you, is it all natural, regardless? Do you feel pressured to learn so that you can be 'better in the sack'? Sometimes I wish I didn't have access to so much information and wasn't so shaped by society. We all are, to some extent. But then, though simplicity can mean that you are happy with less, the key, to me, is in finding the simplicity/satisfaction once you have a greater amount of knowledge. But, it's no easy task. __________________ Whether we write or speak or do but look We are ever unapparent. What we are Cannot be transfused into word or book. Our soul from us is infinitely far. However much we give our thoughts the will To be our soul and gesture it abroad, Our hearts are incommunicable still. In what we show ourselves we are ignored. The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged By any skill of thought or trick of seeming. Unto our very selves we are abridged When we would utter to our thought our being. We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams, And each to each other dreams of others' dreams. Fernando Pessoa, 1918

02-02-2009, 09:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	I'm still sorting the bullshit from what I'd imagine to be my instinctual preferences. Being raised by deeply religious parents, I pretty much grew up on porn. I feel bad for my first few partners but I learned pretty quickly that ramming it in like Ron Jeremy whilst flexing and kissing your biceps is pretty far from romantic. __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

02-02-2009, 11:37 AM	#4 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I don't know... For guys I think it's a little different. We don't really have to know much at first. Stick it in. Thrust a few times back and forth. Kiss her. Tell her she's pretty. Choke her a little... pull out then come in her eye. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

02-02-2009, 08:11 PM	#13 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	Sexual behavior is not very different from other kinds of interpersonal behavior in this regard. Humans are mimics; we spend a lot of time and effort trying to figure out how we should act and suppress our instincts. Sex is a little different because the templates we have to work off of tend to be more caricaturish or sparse than the templates we're given for other behaviors. It enhances the obviousness of the learned/natural dichotomy in human behavior. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

02-03-2009, 01:00 AM	#15 (permalink)
Hyacinthe Psycho Location: Australia	The best porn I have ever seen (with the exceptions of the Pirates movies and Porn wars - both hilarious) was a short amateur clip. Was a girl going down on her other half, almost gagging herself but she was so determined to learn to deep throat him (was an instructional video so I could learn to deep throat various things for work) and when she's working on it you can just see his genitalia and his hands, he spent the majority of his time just stroking her hair out of her face, trying to keep it out of her eyes. For some reason those little gestures were far more arousing then watching her blowing him because they showed that there was an actual connection between the two people involved. You don't see that in porn an actual emotional connection between the two participants often and never outside of amateur stuff. Sorry that was off topic I know but kinda followed on from setties post I don't rely on porn to learn anything in regards to sex I mean some of the positions they get themselves into just look awkward and I know they would do absolutely nothing for me. I tend to go much more by instinct, mainly because during a big part of my brain shuts off and all I am thinking is "Oh frick that feels good" So I don't think much of it for me is learned behaviour at all - unless it's something little like playing with his balls while I ride him because I KNOW he will enjoy that. That's partially learned because I know intellectually that they're generally much more sensitive then the penis itself. But the kissing and tastting and biting and scratching is all instinctual and I think he enjoys that as much if not more then when I am totally into the sex act itself and my brain is not able to remember things on an intellectual level. __________________ "I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own" "Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

02-02-2009, 11:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
Yellow Tulip Upright Location: England	The day I lost my virginity was the first time I had seen a naked man, I had never seen any porn, either films or magazines. I only knew what went where. My first experience went fine, I learned a lot and have been learning ever since. It's like life - we keep learning as we go along, we try new things, we use our imagination - something either works or it doesn't, it's all a learning experience and before long we build up a considerable repertoire. I feel no pressure whatsoever to learn new things. I'm curious, and always like to know what pleases a new partner, but I don't feel it's necessary to impress with any sort of sexual tricks. I'm not sure what crazy sexual stunts you are referring to and I question whether anyone should feel they have to engage in anything they don't want to do. Sex is about you and your partner enjoying your bodies together. Would you really want a partner who expected you to do things you didn't want to? You need a partner who you feel comfortable with, who wants you for you, not because you can pull some sort of sexual trick. Most men are just pleased to get a woman into bed.

02-02-2009, 11:54 AM	#5 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	Innate: attraction to favorable survival traits like intelligence and good health, attraction to erogenous body parts, the impulse to actively pursue, (mostly for men) the impulse to provide food, shelter and amenities, (mostly for women) the want to appear attractive leading to things like makeup. Oh, the the pistoning. Environment, intellect: attraction to popular traits, choosing a particular body part that one most enjoys in a mate, appreciation of quirky or unique behavior, looking for common interests, more advanced foreplay—more than just general kissing, sucking, petting, etc.—like learning particular sexual needs of an individual, different sexual positions, and deciding who cleans the sheets. These are of course just things I've noticed. I don't know how common this could be applied, and to be honest I've forgotten a bit of my sexuality courses from college.

02-02-2009, 04:29 PM	#10 (permalink)
Xerxys Junkie Location: My head.	Porn has never once influenced my habits when it comes to ... anything at all. As Willravel may have said, I was underprepared. The feelings I got my first time, I dont think can be described by anything else besides experience. Books and films just constitute erotica when they try to describe it. Lately I found myself behaving just as I may have once saw during porn but I never acted like that because I was 'taught' how to react to it .. I just reacted. I dont think I've changed how I express myself though.

02-02-2009, 06:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	As a virgin, I can only imagine what it would be like and what I would do. But there aren't too many differences from my fantasies of a pre-porn 15 year old me, and what I would want to do today. If I would have had sex with this girl in high school before I had seen porn and again at the 10 year reunion, I wouldn't have changed very much. I might work longer on making her cum, and would focus on other areas besides the erogenous zones, but I think most of it would still be instictive rather than (I saw this done, I need to do it, or I read this in Cosmo, let's try it). There are a few things that I would have never thought about doing without seeing them in porn, but still I'm not too big of a fan of these things and wouldn't really want to do any of them. Doggy style, pulling out and cumming on her face, anal, rough sex, fake boobs,...

02-03-2009, 06:09 AM	#17 (permalink)
Hyacinthe Psycho Location: Australia	Personally i thought I was completely rambling and on the verge of incoherency - glad you understand me settie cause sometimes I sure don't! __________________ "I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own" "Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

02-04-2009, 12:20 PM	#19 (permalink)
dlish Currently sour but formerly Dlishs Super Moderator Location: Australia/UAE	so you guys are telling me that guys instictively learn bukake, and instinctingly give golden showers, and instintingly crave BDSM. let me put it another way...if a man and a woman, lived on a deserted island without the influence of the outside world, i dare say that their sex lives would probably consist of not much more than a handful of positions at most. everything else would be a learnt behaviour, would it not? oh..and a bow to hyacinthe! all hail! __________________ An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy

02-08-2009, 12:02 AM	#20 (permalink)
Hyacinthe Psycho Location: Australia	I go away for a week come back and find all hailing me - awesomeness!! I guess the reason I feel porn has such a small influence for me and my other half is that for us sex isn't work and porn is. Things like bukkake, golden showers and the like are work. He sells things about it and gets given dvd's of it that he has to watch. Bukkake is one of the major reasons that I take a giant tub of sorbolene to work with me or on a hot day will do a show in a kiddy pool filled with milk (cheap powdered crud) We with our lifestyle are able to seperate 'work / porn' and our sex life, you have to in our industry or you'll go mad. I'm not sure if like dlish I include BDSM in that - for my opinion in regards to BDSM go find that "Is BDSM a sex kink" thread - I should link it but I am lazy. I think that without porn I would still crave pain and submission, in every relationship (even the ones you think are equal) there is always one person dominant and one submissive, some of us just embrace that role more then others. __________________ "I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own" "Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."