telekinetic

She'd never cheated on anyone, just taken advantage of the times when she was single. I was #71, I think there's been another two since then, both serious relationships, one of whom she is still with.

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twisted no more

Infinite_Loser

Sticking to ones values?

I'll 'chill' with anyone. Nothing says I have to date them.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

The_Jazz

Is it just me or is this a contradiction? Nothing would change between you and this fictional woman. But you don't want to be with someone who's been with an "unusually high" number of guys no matter what the circumstances.

Yet there you are with this fictional woman and nothing's changed.

I'm still trying to figure out why you think this matters if the person wants the same thing out of the relationships as you.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

telekinetic

So if I give you her phone number, and you call her, and she tells you how she's effectively engaged now, I get everything you own? Do you have anything cool?

I still stand by the fact that it is more dangerous (in terms of disease) to sleep with someone who's slept with 'a few' people' and isn't informed enough to use protection properly every time, and is too ashamed to get checked, than it is to have a roll in the hay with an independant woman who knows how to take care of herself. If sex with many people was inherently dangerous, we'd have a lot of dead porn stars.

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twisted no more

The_Jazz

Abaya, I'm starting to think that I_L knows a different 8 lb 6 oz Baby Jesus than you and I do.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Infinite_Loser

What I mean is I wouldn't be with her because nothing would have changed in my stance, not what I would be with her but not changing my stance (If that last part makes any sense at all).

Is she 23? And ummm... Nope. I have nothing cool. Sorry.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

abaya

Sure... as long as we agree that the Pharisees loved sticking to their values more than they loved Christ.

Yeah, well we all know that Jesus didn't date, period. But nowhere in the Bible does it say to hold someone's sexual past against them; quite the opposite. God looks at the heart. I don't see a whole lot of room for interpretation there.

Funnily enough, the Bible DOES say not to have sex before marriage, so it's interesting that you've decided to take such a lenient stance on that one, hmm...

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Willravel

Most people that don't have sex before marriage make that decision based on fear. Jesus Christ are they missing out. One person, and he/she is a virgin? That's like having a PBJ for every lunch for the rest of your life and never knowing what cold lamb or roast pheasant sandwiches taste like. At the most you get up to organic peanut butter, with jam and bread you make yourself. Delicious, of course, but you're still only getting a fraction of experience.

BTW, I looked up funnily and was surprised to find that it is a word. You learn something new every day, so ty abaya.

Infinite_Loser

...So why bring it up, then?

Okay... In case you haven't noticed, I'm not God, so I don't (And can't anyway lol). Still, everyone has preferences. Mine is that I don't want someone who has been around the proverbial block. It's really just that simple.

If I really, really, REALLY wanted to I could scream "Fornicators!". But I choose not to. Pus it'd make me a hypocrite. Therefore, I typically say nothing regarding those who choose engage in premarital sex. Simple, isn't it? =D

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Psycho Dad

I'll avoid the "How many partners would Jesus want me to have" aspect of this thread and say that the only problem I would have with my wife's previous partner count, is that count growing after we were married. Were I not able to accept the fact that she, like me, was sexually active prior to our relationship she would have been better off without me for the last 23 years.

And I half suspect that there are a fair amount of men who take issue to the number of partners a woman has had due to insecurity rather than "sticking to their values".

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

Martian

Except that it begs the question of why you're so adamant in following some tenets of the bible, but are perfectly okay with ignoring others; particularly when the one you're ignoring and the one you're espousing are essentially the same sin.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

telekinetic

Nope, she's now 25, after having been in (and currently being in) two serious relationships since then.

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twisted no more

abaya

Will, just because someone has only had one partner does not mean that they "waited until marriage;" I think you know that. Also, I wasn't suggesting that waiting till marriage was a good idea, but I'm holding I_L to his "good values"... which he has clearly drawn from the Bible. They are not my values, but I see them as relevant to the discussion as long as he's involved.Since you've put yourself out there as a Christian, it's relevant to pretty much everything you say. Be imitators of God. That's as clear as day, from what I remember. Well, except that it's not that simple. I can understand preferences, especially based on health reasons (you're right, condoms do not protect against all STD's). However, your reasons are not "simple" preferences. You are actively making judgments about the morality of people based on their number of sexual partners, which is more than just preference.
Yeah, your last word is the key one. It clarifies a lot. As does Psycho Dad's last sentence.

Psycho Dad: don't know if your first sentence was addressed to me, but I'm certainly not suggesting that Jesus would give a rat's ass about how many partners anyone has had. Pretty much the opposite. However, having formerly (long ago) called myself a Christian, I am always amazed at the lengths to which people will go to justify themselves using "good values" and "moral judgment," linking that to sexual activity and the Bible in various ways that please their lifestyle. Go figure. I prefer hell.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Infinite_Loser

Ummm... Ummm... Ummm... Didn't I already explain this? No one said I actively pick and choose what I adhere to. I did say, however, that it'd be hypocritical of me to get on other people's case about things which I've done, so I don't. It's really easy to understand >_>

You tried to make a point by linking it with an irrelevency (Since Jesus didn't date), so I'm still puzzled as to what your intentions were and/or what you were trying to prove.

Actually, it is that simple. You're just trying to make it more complicated then it really is. If I wanted to judge morality, I'd just say "I'm not dating any non-Christian!" That'd be much more effective, wouldn't you say? Yes, I believe it would.

No worries. You'll get your wish

(Just had to get that in.)

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Martian

Except that this doesn't actually explain anything. It's my understanding that all sins are damnable and that in the eyes of God there's no real difference. One partner or a thousand, they both break the same rule. How is it not hypocritical, then, to admit to premarital sex in one breath and condemn others for the same thing in the next? That seems to be the very definition of hypocritical to me.

If the number is significant from a theological standpoint, who decides what the appropriate number is? I'll admit that it's been several years since I read the bible, but I don't remember any passages that say 'breaking this commandment six times is cool, but seven is too much.'

I have no issue with wanting someone who may be limited due to personal comfort. As I said above, I'm pretty sure there is a number I'd be uncomfortable with myself, although I've never actually sat down and figured out exactly where that line is, nor have I encountered it. The difference is that I don't pass judgment on people who have surpassed that hypothetical number, except insofar as I don't think I'd personally want to add to it any further. If having a flavour of the week makes someone happy, who am I to tell them otherwise?

I guess what I'm saying is that I see no need to couch your own personal comfort in biblical terms, and that to condemn people based on that logic seems a bit weak to me. Perhaps you can clarify that, though.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Infinite_Loser

Once again, because I don't. You've never seen me tell anyone they're going to hell because they'd engaged in premarital sex, have you? No, you haven't. And you haven't for the reasons stated above. This isn't to say I couldn't (And boy could I ever), but I don't because I choose not to. Now, if you want me to start, I can lol

I never said it had any theological basing. I did say, however, it's a personal preference. Big difference.

See: Post #31

Well, you see, you'd have a point if I was couching my own comfort in Biblical terms.

*Points above to his previous response*

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Psycho Dad

It wasn't.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

MrFriendly

Considering I've only ever had one female sexual partner, the chances are any girl I'll sleep with in the future will have had many more partners than me.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me though. They had a life before they met me, I have no right to get jealous and weird about what they did before then.

The only thing I'm interested in is what the sex we're having now is like and that we both have the same expectations and understanding of our relationship.

Being honest with myself, there is an upper limit where I might feel a bit uncomfortable. But honestly, it's something I can get over.

Cheers

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You are not a slave

Challah

*Resists the urge to unleash a deluge of Biblical quotations.*

I don't think it matters at all. If they are clean and honest about their past (if you choose to ask), who cares? If someone was 23, had been with 70+ people and was behaving in a way that might suggest the continuation of that lifestyle, then I, personally, would not be interested in them. I don't want to be another notch but I don't care how many notches a person has, providing they're genuinely interested in me.

Bill O'Rights

Good point.

So how come when I do it...the cops get all pissy? I wonder how that argument would work during an arraignment.

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

Willravel

Can we end the threadjack please?
1) There are tons of different interpretations of the Bible. No ones interpretation is right and no ones interpretation is wrong.
2) Refer back to #1.
3) Threadjacking sucks.

Plan9

*busts through the walls, jumps up a soapbox labeled #71*

I forget who said it (Se7en?), but I think it applies a little:

"What sick little puppets we are and what a gross stage we dance on, dancing, laughing, fucking, all the while not realising that we are nothing. We are not what was intended."



The Great Reverend says:

...

Tell me again how having sex with 70 different people doesn't cheapen it.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

analog

Conversation is awesome, but how about those who want to walk about The Bible create a new thread somewhere, where it can be discussed at length without impeding the discussion people are having here?

Both discussions are worthy of having their own space, let's not derail a good thread (any more than it already has been). I think many people were really getting into the concepts presented here, and it'd be cool if we could go back to focusing on that.

Plan9

Not when it involves the bible. Turns out? The bible is the all time best seller and has lead to more deaths than cigarettes, firearms, and automobiles.

Like I was saying... high sexual body counts probably cheapen sex.

Just like drugs: You start small and eventually not even meth does it for you.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

noodle

Back to the OP....

I honestly never asked. I didn't want to know. I still don't want to, four years on and off later. My SO knows that my number was zero before him. Some days he likes that, sometimes he complains. I don't regret it one bit.
So by default, he's got more experience. What matters to me, like someone else said (PsychoDad, I think?), is that the number doesn't increase while we are together.

I still hold by my comment in the Ladies' Lounge a few months back...

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nonplussed

How would you know how many others your lover has had unless you asked? And why would you?

Willravel

Low
Self
Esteem
/end thread

Martian

I personally consider 'disclosing sexual history' to be a natural and necessary step in the development of a relationship. I don't expect an itemized list or anything like that, but getting a rough idea of where she's been and when falls firmly into the 'getting to know you' process.

EDIT - for cross-post with willravel. I don't think it's an issue of self-esteem as such. More one of self-protection. If she has a history of wild unprotected sex with outlaw bikers, I would want to know that. Conversely, if she's only been with one other guy I want to know that too; in that case, I'll know that I should probably be a bit more gentle than I might be with a more experienced girl.

Either way, it seems like prudent information to have.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Willravel

Natural and necessary is both parties being tested before becoming sexually active. I've dated my fair share of liars, and anyone else who's dated quite a bit will agree. Women can give a far lower number.

Infinite_Loser

Funny... I remember in sex ed class they said the one question you should ask your partner is how many other partners they've had. Didn't think it had anything to do with self-esteem.

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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.

Ustwo

I think its a stupid question designed to keep anyone from getting laid.

It would really break the mood.

Any answer greater than one puts you at risk, therefore the question to ask is 'are you a virgin'.

So the rule should be only virgins are allowed to have sex with a new partners, but only if they are a virgin too.

Mmmmm that sounds familiar.

Good thing I'm a sinner.

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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host

Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

Willravel

Do you think they were referring to Deuteronomy or Matthew?

The clear point is that partners can lie and blood tests are more reliable.

Martian

I think a distinction needs to be drawn here; personally, I see a big difference between a casual sex partner and a significant other. If you're just out to get laid than you're probably not going to have much success asking your companion of the evening how many partners they've had. At best you're inviting them to lie to you, although I suppose it would be a good way to protect yourself from STD's; as Ustwo pointed out, I can't imagine anything actually happening after you ask a question like that. This type of encounter carries an inherent risk and it's only sensible to be cognizant of that and take reasonable steps to protect oneself.

Dealing with a long-term partner, however, is a whole 'nother animal. In those circumstances (as presented in the OP) I would consider it a valid question. Personally, I select my long-term partners based on character traits that I find appealing, rather than sexual compatibility. Those character traits include honesty and integrity, which I expect from those around me every bit as much as I do from myself. If she tells me that she's had two partners before me and used condoms every time then I probably won't be as adamant on blood tests than if she's had ten and has had unprotected sex with all of them. The circumstances dictate the response. Yes, it's true that she could be lying, but if I thought that were the case I wouldn't be with her to begin with.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Plan9

Bingo. Always a worry of mine.

The number and the variety tells the story, I think. Regardless of gender.

Yes, oh-shit-I-said-it, men can be included in this here babble.

"This one time... I had sex with the Dallas Cowboys. All of them."

Like whoa.

It's like GI Joe says in those post-cartoon PSAs: Knowledge makes for safer sex.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

canuckguy

okay so why the need then to ask how many partners? why not just ask if she is clean? if that is the main concern.

tenchi069

Feel free to ask any questions of your SO. Just be prepared for 2 things.

1. He/She may not want to share the information (regardless of number)
2. You will have to live with knowing the answer.

If you can accept both of these I would have no problem asking, if you cannot, then I would not.

Btw, to put my input in. Both my wife and I asked each other before we were married and are both comfortable and accepting of the answers.

-Peace

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ERROR- PLBSAK
Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

pig

for someone i'm seriously dating, i agree with martian that it's a pretty natural topic in learning about your partner's pyschology, background, personality, etc. part of that whole bit where you give your personal histories. if you're just having sex; the question is probably pointless, and i don't see why it would matter. you're rolling the dice and you know it. you wrap it up or flush her out with a garden hose or bring biological agents and organic solvents mixed up in a squeegee bottle - whatever your particular approach, that's part of the game. if i assume i'm trying to get my funk on with her, then why get judgemental about it? although it probably does help you be discriminating about the whole thing. people on opposite sides of this question are just going to give each other headaches if they do actually manage to trip into each other's special purposes.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Plan9

Dude, you should teach sex ed in Africa.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pig

i'm on paid retainer for several high-ranking nigerian and south african public figures, now that you mention it.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Menoman

My number for significant others is 3 I'd say, I'll be the third, but anymore than that and I stay clear unless I'm drunk or something.

I think its a pretty satisfying number.

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