Lasereth

I can't believe it's even a question. Nobody chooses to live a life surrounded by ignorant shitheads making fun of you. Gay people are born gay, even if the feelings do not develop until later. I'm a heterosexual and have no lust for men. If you are attracted to the same sex, it's not a damned choice, it's something in your genetics that made it happen, much like heterosexual people like the opposite sex by default. The notion that gay people choose to be gay is absolutely absurd and close minded.

I personally think that homosexuals are the human race's attempt at population control on our overcrowded planet. I believe in evolution, and the human race evolving into a fraction of non-reproducing homosexuals is a blatant attempt at controlling the population of the earth over a long period of time. It makes perfect sense...too many people on the earth, so our race evolves to control it.

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nmm

Didn't vote cos frankly I am not sure and I think it can be both, I think it is more a per case than a generality... People personalities are so different that there is no way it is a choice or not for every gay person...

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Martian

I don't know what causes someone to 'turn gay,' as the saying goes. Frankly, I've never put much effort into researching the root issues here and my first suspicion is that there is no one cause for every individual. Some folks might have a genetic predisposition or something, it could be environmental or caused by trauma, it could be some other unknown environmental or biological factor. What seems most probable to me is that it's all of the above, but I've never really felt the need to look into it.

I do know that I didn't choose to be heterosexual. I like girls. I like their shapes, their mannerisms, their voices. I happen to be a male. A female who shares my appreciation or a male who doesn't isn't really that big a deal. I'm fairly certain that no healthy individual would choose that path for themself; as has been pointed out, it's one fraught with doubt and discrimination.

Certainly one can choose to engage in acts of homosexuality without being homosexual, or vice versa. I know that I've heard of such things happening in the past. I have no interest in it; if you do, knock yourself out. But can one choose one's overall preference? I don't know, but somehow I doubt it.

My thinking is that the idea of homosexuality as a choice relates back to the perceived wrongness of it. One might presume that a homosexual individual is going against the natural order of things; if one were to further presuppose that each individual is normally inclined to follow said natural order, then one would assume that a person must make the conscious decision to defy it. This is flawed, of course, in that it assumes that nature is bound by our perceptions of the rules. No evidence of any such thing exists; indeed, it seems the opposite is true. We're bound by the rules of nature and we expend a great deal of time and energy in the attempt of discerning just what those rules are. Should something come along that doesn't fit our understanding, it seems to be the better option to assume that our understanding is wrong and modify it accordingly, rather than assume the rules themselves are wrong.

Of course, if someone is choosing to be gay said someone can choose not to be gay anymore, which would doubtless be a comfort to those in the conflicted position of believing homosexuality to be wrong but finding out a loved one is batting for the other team.

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fightnight

I'm curious if this isn't just because of the societal view of male homosexuality vs. female homosexuality. If you're on the spectrum (not at the extremes), that means you could be happy either way, and if society is more OK with females experimenting bisexually than with men experimenting bisexually, then wouldn't it make sense to see more of the women actually acting on their urges, as opposed to the men who would be less likely to do so, seeing as they still have a viable option in women and society would look down on them much more? I think this explains difference between the female and male spectrum (although i'm sure it's flawed in some way, and someone will point it out, I just can't see it right now).

As far as the question goes, I like Will's answer, I definitely think it's not a choice... I just don't know why it's not a choice. Biological? Environmental? Psychological? Who knows.

Sticky

I was trying to point out that an attraction to a certain look is different than sexual preference.

Even though you are attracted to asian and redhead women you may still sleep with a woman who is not asian or redhead.
Correct?
The answer is proabably yes but only you really know the answer.

But would you sleep with a guy?
The answer is probably no.


So what is the difference between those two.
I was trying to point out that your attraction to asian ans redhead women while learnt or developed over time is not really the same thing as your heterosexuality.

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sapiens

Researchers have used more than self-reported sexual preference to demonstrate this difference in distribution of sexual preference. Sexual arousal studies using physiological measures have supported the sex difference as well. I doubt that others opinions of male bisexuality would affect the physiological sexual arousal of males.

This isn't particular to your post, but how is psychological not biological? Choice versus no choice is not psychological versus biological. Both choice and no choice must be biological (unless we are reverting to Cartesian dualism).

How is environmental not biological? I suppose that environment might be considered separate from biology in the sense of heritability- Differences between people in their sexual preference could be due to something other than differences in their genes. But even in that case, I would expect environmental causes to be grounded in biology - an environmental influence would have to cause a biological change in the organism during development in order to affect sexual preference.

That makes me wonder about what kind of environmental information could change sexual preference during development.


Edit: If sexual preference was so malleable, if a person could simply decide to be sexually attracted to men, I don't think that the human race would have lasted as long as it has.

[Kidding]Men, homosexual or heterosexual, tend to have lower standards in mates, tend to require less time before having sexual intercourse with a mate, tend to require less commitment before sex, and tend to have a greater preference for short-term mating. If we could so easily change are sexual preference, all men would become homosexual just for the easier sexual access.[/kidding]

analog

Of course it's a choice, a gay friend of mine was telling me exactly that the other day:

"I want to live the rest of my life being looked down upon by ignorant people. I want to go through every day knowing that I may encounter violence just for being me. I want people's lack of understanding to grow into fear. I'd like to be ridiculed, hated, and taught through hurtful words and actions that different is not ok. Most of all, I want people to tell me that I'm not a worthwhile human being."

Of course it's not a choice. I have no idea where anyone ever got the idea that it would be.

fightnight

What I was getting at was that a male who was bisexual might not decide to act on their arousal toward another male due to societal factors, thus making it seem as though there is more of a spectrum with women than with men. However if we were talking about research on what men actually feel, as opposed to what we actually see happening in society, my point would be moot.

I think for the purpose of this thread, when people say "biological", they mean "inherited", or at least that's what I meant. The difference between "biological" and "environmental" would relate to something after birth, some stimulus from life experience, causing one to psychologically prefer a sexual orientation other than heterosexuality. Either way we're ultimately on the same side of the original question, in that homosexuality is not a choice a person makes, whether it be stemming from something inherited or something that happened after birth.

Topper

Well then the "cure" is simple, when infants... boys should be breast fed, girls should be given formula.

That will solve it right there!

sapiens

Right. I suppose that I'm talking about sexual arousal, and you're talking about who people actually choose to have sex with. When I spoke of male sexual preference being dichotomous and female sexual preference being more of a spectrum I was suggesting that men tend to display a dichotomous distribution of arousal (either they're attracted to men or their attracted to women), while women tend to be more of a spectrum of arousal. Some of the research demonstrating this uses equipment that presumably measures arousal directly (fMRIs, vaginal plethysmographs, etc.). So, the sprectrum/dichotomy difference is there independent of societal factors.

I agree, though I wouldn't consider psychological to be separate from biological.

Also, there are a lot of different categories of possible environmental causes of homosexuality:
-in utero trauma
-some other abnormality of the gestational environment
-a normal response to an environmental cue within the gestational environment caused by the mother herself
-environmental trauma after birth (during development)
-A normal response to environmental cues after birth
-A combination of the above
-A combination of the above with a genetically caused tendency toward homosexuality.

Spaz007

I was raised by 2 men, and with the both of them it was... just that way ever since they were small. For me I played around making sure I knew what I wanted seeing if I was like my father, and nothing get's me more then the scent of a woman. Had it been genitic I think it would have been a different story, but I do belive that some people got it and some don't.

Lady Sage

You are who you are and your true friends will still be there for you no matter what. I believe that some people are born homosexual and some choose the lifestyle later in life. It matters not to me what gender someone prefers to be intimate with. What matters is the kind of person they are and how they treat their loved ones.

dd3953

One thing I would like us all to remember is that: Being gay is not about sex. You can fuck anyone and it mean nothing.
Being gay is about who you fall in love with, who you connect with, and who you desire to be around, it is about love.

I understand that some people really are Bi while others (like the GUGs) are just having sex with anyone who will give it to them. My friends and I have began to call them "greedy."

So, while the people you are attracted to (and what to have sex with) may fall into a wide spectrum; I think that the people you can fall in love with falls into a spectrum that is a little more narrow.

Or maybe it is just my thinking that is narrow.

So this is going to be a pretty long post. I have just finished reading all the replies up to my last one, and here is my two cent.

Has anyone ever seen the movie "But I'm a Cheerleader"??? That is what comes to mind. I just found out that homosexuality was not taken out of the APA's book of illness until 1994. How many people are out there, you think, that still thinks that gayness is a sickness that one can be cured of? And if you know someone who can do the curing, send me their info, I would love to meet them.
On that note, if there really was a person who could make gay people straight, then and only then would I say that ganyness is a choice. Becuase there would be an option there.

Well said.

now, xepherys, your state your points very well. but I have a question for you.

When did you chose to be attracted to redheads? No, I don't think it was a choice that you made, and I do not think that you have some encoded gene either. And that is my point. You did not make the choice, but at some point in time you realized that you liked redheads more than you liked blonded. I didn't make the choice, either, but at some point I realized that I like women, in everyway, more than I liked men. I am the only out lesbian in my family, so I don't think there is a gene.

We make the choice to say, "I am going to be out" or "I will not be out." But I agree with Miss Badu when she sang "emotions don't lie."

You also said that my question to you is quite simple: What do you think the choices are?

Daniel stated, "There are a number of people who believe that if you are born gay, it is God testing you. Their thory seems to be that God doesn't like homosexuality, so he makes some people gay so that they have the chance to prove their strength by abstaining."

Well, 1 Cor 13 states that God is love. Before that in one of the gospels, Jesus states that man really only need to follow two commands: 1) Love the Lord your God with all your mind, strenght, soul, and understanding. 2) Love your nieghbor as you love yourself.

Nowhere, that I have found, does it say that some kind of love is wrong and some is right. If God is love why would He look down on any type of love? Ask your friend this. Let me know what they say.

If you don't care one way or another why make a choice at all?

Thank you Mead, but let me say that your vote does not mean that you are agaisnt homosexuality, it just means that you think it is a choice.

I am however wondering why you think it is science. Do you have cold hard proof that it is a choice? If so, I would love to read it. As we know, there is an execption to every rule.

And, so that everyone else here knows, I am not asking if you think it is right or wrong. Honestly, I care less if you think I will burn in hell or not, I just wanna know if you think I am chosing to burn in hell.

Mead, what other options do you think should be given? I did, however, set the opition limits so that people would discuss the topic, but if you think there should be more options, what should they be?

And my point was to get people to talk about those things at play.

Which I would like to thank you all for doing.

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captobvious

I would say that it's not a choice. I think the choice comes in accepting who you are, and that depends on a lot of other factors like the environment you were raised in.

Average_Joe

I can only speak from my perspective experience being a heterosexual male, but I think homosexuality is biological. When I reached puberty, all I could think about were gils, girls, and more girls. It wasn't a choice. I wasn't feeling pressured by society to think this way. It's just they way it was. I would imagine that having homosexual thoughts and feelings happen naturally, too.

swmnkdinthervr

What an extremely emotionally charged poll/question...no matter your answer at least some will disagree with you...some so vehemently it may be considered outrage...

I'm going to take a swing at it...I like some/most men am basically hetero but have entertained at least a curiosity about M2M sexuality. (though most men won't admit that) I've had numerous friends in the gay/lesbian community so I feel familiar with the subject as well. A fairly high percentage of the gay males and females I know are certain in their conviction about gender attraction and either have been all of their lives or have more recently identified that attraction. (for lack of a better word) I have no problem believing that is a genetic signal rather than choice. There are those I've met that have made a conscious choice about gender affiliation that I know as well...some because of traumatic events in their lives such as sexual abuse, others yet due to the symptoms of affective or emotion disorders resulting in low self esteem or debilitating insecurity. There are still others that consider themselves bisexual and because of that determination are shunned by both the gay community as well as the hetero community...it seems more an asexual choice but undeniably these people are attracted to the same sex as well.

In a nutshell I'd have to vote say (JMHO) that both elements of the poll are true to some degree...

I'd like to add a note to those using religion as a sword in their attack on sexuality as a whole...other than adultery, sexuality only became an issue in the last 300 years and only in Judaeo/Christianity...

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thespian86

for the sake of arguing? Don't people make choices everyday, even large choices, that put themselves in obvious uncomfortable places that cause anxiety and innerturmoil? And also, why would homosexuality and attraction to the same sex be any different if you are attracted to both? I know some people experiment but I will never do things more then once if I don't find an advantage in it.

that said I believe men and women are born gay. But not because of how hard the choice would be, simply because the choice could never be made. I like what I like and I never choose my preferences. They are simply who I am.

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kel

Nope, had the same issue with religion. Knew I didn't believe in god for years.

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dd3953

nicely put

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Deltona Couple

Hmm...that might change...lmao

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Sugarmouse

I dont think its a choice at all.sexual urge is a very primitive instinct based thing..

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Ustwo

Watching family guy reruns the other day, we saw the episode where Meg is invited to join the schools lesbian club and doesn't say shes straight because its a way to have friends. Two lines amused me when she confessed she was straight to the girl who invited her to join.

"You mean all those rounds of golf were lies?'

and

Meg: "I didn't think being gay was a choice?"
Girl: "Well for guys its not."

I think for male homosexuals there is no choice involved. Even if its more accepted its still a difficult thing for most people to tell their parents at best, and few people want to be that different or risk some of the reactions people have.

For females I think its something of another story. For some I think its the same as the men, there is no doubt, they are homosexual. For a lot of others though they seem to bounce around with it. I know two women who were in lesbian relationships and are now married to men. You won't find that nearly as often with men. Also currently female bisexuality is very accepted in many circles and even encouraged, to the point some straight females will be what I call 'socially bi' willing to do the flirting and kissing in public.

So while for some homosexuality is not a choice, for others it is.

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pocon1

nothing to say

Lady Sage

I feel there should be a third option to the poll.

I know people who have chosen to be homosexual because of preference.

I know people who have shown homoxesual traits from early childhood and therefore were in my humble opinion born homosexual.

Homosexual, straight or whatever, I will lose no sleep tonight over anyones sexual preferences. I respect people for being people but who they choose to have intimate incounters with.

Arsenic7

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my mind.

Besides, lots of animals have been known to be gay...there are gay fruit flies that have been positively linked to a certain genetic trait.

That said, I think the OP answered her own question. She has had these feelings since she can remember haveing sexual feelings and they won't just "go away."

I think it's certainly possible for someone to choose to have sex with someone of the same sex, but not for them to feel sexually attracted only to that sex.

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longbough

The only ones qualified to answer this question are the practicing homosexuals and bisexual folks out there.
Why do only self-proclaimed heterosexuals (like myself) feel that the truth will arise from debate and speculation? Just ask your gay friends and you'll get more insight.

hannukah harry

well, if i chose to be straight, how is that any different than someone choosing to be homosexual? same thing goes with if it was natural and no choice.

just because someone is gay doesn't mean that they should have arrived at their sexuality any differently than someone who's straight. we should be able to extrapolate based on our experience.

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longbough

I hope you're not implying that I say otherwise. I didn't offer an opinion. The only point I make is that the opinion of a heterosexual on the matter is just pointless academic pontification.

In theory that would be the case.

You made my point when you said "we should be able to extrapolate." It's still pure speculation on your part if you're not homosexual.

Personally, I believe individuals have specific sexual proclivities based on a complex and poorly understood interaction between psychology and neuroendocrine response. I'm inclined to think that the abstract notion of "psychology" is a product of BOTH hereditary and developmental influence.

It seems natural to presume one can make a direct analogy from homosexuality to heterosexuality. But that's a presumption conjured in vitro.

If a man wonders why his wife doesn't like sports - what's the point of debating the matter with his friends when he can just go home and ask his wife?

I stand by my point.

Ustwo

Who is to say we have'nt? I know my opinions on the subject are due to speaking with homosexuals and bi sexuals as well as my own observations.

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raeanna74

Most of the others have already voice my opinion - of which there isn't a totally accurate option for me to choose from.

In my experience, I was raised very conservatively, so I never entertained the idea of engaging in sexual behavior with someone of the other sex. But I recall many times feeling 'excited' and uncomfortable as a result when girlfriends were more physical with me, or when I saw them naked. I chalked it up to me just being unused to those situations. Even when I happened upon my grandpa's stash of playboy magazines, and enjoyed sneaking peaks at them while visiting my grandparents, I just thought it was because it was forbidden. But when I made the choice to actually engage in sexual behavior with another woman, it felt NATURAL, and NORMAL for me.

I could have gone my whole life without acknowledging any interest in women and I don't think I would have 'lost' a part of me but only because I am bi-sexual. For some who are STRONGLY homosexual in their brain chemistry, I would see it as less of a choice. In my case, where it wasn't a strong drive so much as an interest, it was a choice to engage in some sexual behavior with the same sex.

Sexual preferences vary so much that hard and firm extremes are more rarity. I think choice AND genetics BOTH play a role in where you end up.

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Cervantes

This is a very interesting question,
In my opinion it is not a choice, sexual preference is something that is not within our control.

I see the world a bit differently, like Freud I think, he had some similar ideas, can't remeber what he called it though.
It is like this, sexuality is sexuality, I don't belive in heterosexuality or homosexuality. Those lables gives the idea that sexuality is divided somehow by impassible limits.
As I see it we are all sexual (bisexual) by nature but our sexual preferences makes us prefer certain traits in the ones we fall in love with, such as gender.

I also differentiate between hard preferences and weak preferences, that being for somone who is, by the "old" way of defining it, heterosexual has a hard preference for partens with the opposite gender. Whereas a guy who prefers big breasts instead of small ones has a weak preference for big breasts. You get the idea.

The weak preferences you can go beyond (ie. the guy can fall in love with a smallbreasted woman) without any serious trouble, but the hard ones are usually, well, harder to pass, not insurmountable but just a heck of a lot harder and usually don't give even close to the same satisfaction as following your preference.

Just as bisexuality is usually biased, meaning they usually prefer one gender a bit more than the other, heterosexuality and homosexuality is hard biases in this "scale".

These preferences are not our choices as I see it, you can't convince somone to fall in love with you. Following that line of thought, you can't convince yourself to fall in love with somone inside or outside of the hard preferences.
Love is love and part of it's beauty is that we can't control it.

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dd3953

& just how did you come to decide that you were gonna be straight?

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hannukah harry

read the part you quoted again... if... IF i chose...

i didn't choose. i just am.

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longbough

this thread becomes an exercise in semantics because of how it's phrased. I guess homosexuality is a choice but only in the sense that eating is a choice. i.e. I have no choice to feel hungry but I choose to eat because I'm hungry.

While a homosexual (and heterosexual for that matter) consciously chooses to identify with that label by deed or declaration they may have no choice over their hormonal/emotional inclinations.

anyaslilbro

Man...I had a whole thing written out for this and then it was gone...poopy.

Anyways.

As a gay man, I have always felt that I had exactly 3 choices regarding my sexuality.

1. I could "hide" it. I tried this for a while, by having relationships and sex with only women. It was mildly enjoyable for me. I mean, cumming is cumming. But, it did lead to a lot of lying and self hatred, and because of that I tended to go through partners EXTREMELY quickly. It's like I was overcompensating by screwing lots of girls. A lot of people got hurt and that made it even harder to live with.

2. I could become asexual As the Catholic church used to say(and maybe still does..I am not up on it's stance at this point) "They accept everyone for who they are...even the gay's...they just don't condone the "act" of homosexuality". So it's alright to not have sex with women, as long as your not having sex at all. Basically, be gay, and never act on it. Of course that would lead to more lying and self-loathing.

3. I could "be" gay. Ah bliss! It's where I started out, and where I ended up. Kind of a "full circle" thing. LOL. I found out that even if the world hated me, I no longer did. I was able to live with myself much better without the lies and self-hatred.

Now I'll admit this was much more coherant before my internet crashed as I was posting it. But I think I got the gist of it.

I feel that you are born gay, straight, bi or whatever, but, you do have the choice if you are going to act on it.

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rockogre

This doesn't address the poll question, but it seems to me that you have waited long enough for the acceptance and getting on with the being happy part. You need to go for the happy and screw what the rest of us think!

I will say that it seems biological to me in that if I think with my little head, I find no interest in men what so ever, but a curvy woman will get my interest any time. There is no choice in it for me. My little head does the choosing just as I suspect your body does for you.

Go be happy!

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Gilda

I voted "no choice" though this is not universal, at least for females.

I did not choose to be lesbian, nor did my wife. She says she’s always been attracted to girls at least since puberty. Her sister reports the same. My sexuality was strongly affected by environmental influences, but this does not make my attraction to females a choice any more than my inability to use my left hand is a choice.

The evidence for males is very strong that exclusive homosexuality for the vast majority of males is a condition that is present at birth and is the result of a combination of genetic factors and gestational hormones. Specifically, unusually high levels of stress hormones early in gestation may activate certain genes, resulting in an orientation to males. This is likely a natural population control method, a built in response to environmental factors that would produce high levels of stress hormones. In non-human mammals the biggest environmental stressors tend to be overpopulation and scarcity of food, both conditions being served by reducing the population. In male-oriented young transitioning male to female transsexuals, the etiology appears to be very similar to that of gay males, though this group is a minority among MTFs. What accounts for the difference isn’t precisely known, but it is thought that the timing of the anomalous hormone levels probably plays a factor.

The evidence for lesbians is far more muddled. There are lesbians, those who exhibit strongly masculine characteristics, or the “bull dyke” stereotype, who seem to have unusual hormone profiles, which in this group points to a biological, though not genetic cause. This also seems to be the most common etiology for FTM transsexuals, who can be difficult to distinguish from very butch lesbians at times. The most common correlation, however, is to acute childhood abuse/trauma, either physical or sexual, as either a victim or witness. Lesbians are far more likely than straight women to have had one or more male abusers in their childhood, teen years or early adulthood, or to have lived in an environment in which they consistently witnessed abuse by males (ie, usually a father/boyfriend abusing their mother). Out of this group, there appears to be two subgroups, those whose sexuality was influenced such that they are rendered incapable of forming the type of bond with a man that a heterosexual relationship requires. Others report simply giving up on ever finding a man capable of meeting their needs sexually, or with whom they can connect emotionally. This last group can fairly be said to have chosen homosexuality, and it seems that even with those for whom it was not a conscious choice, environmental factors outside the womb play a bigger part than genetic or hormonal factors.

Regardless of the etiology, therapy for lesbians tends not to make them straight, even when they’ve resolved the issues related to their past trauma, and “reparative therapies” tend to have about the same success rates as with gay males, with is to say very little, and tend to do much more damage psychologically than help. The goal of therapy for most reputable mainstream therapists who deal with homosexuals is to help them accept who they are and deal with the stresses that accompany their orientation.

Recent studies have show that gay males tend to have certain brain functions that are in line with those of heterosexual females, and lesbians, regardless of etiology, have brain functions, particularly those dealing with the reaction to pheromones, that coincide with heterosexual males, though right now it’s strictly correlational. In other words, we know that lesbian brains tend to respond to women like straight male brains, but we don’t know if that’s the cause, or the result of the homosexuality. Did the differences in brain structure cause the behavior or did the behavior lead to a difference in brain structure? We don’t know, and it would take a longitudinal study to find out.

So with males, it seems they’re born that way, and with females, a minority are born that way, while a majority are the result of environmental factors which lead some to choose homosexuality and others have their orientation influenced in that direction as a result of trauma.

As far as personal experiences, I’m certain that my homosexual orientation is a result of sexual abuse at the hands of several men initially in childhood and later in early adulthood. I’ve had sex with men enough times to know that it’s not possible for me to find either physical release or emotional connection to any man, including one very gentle and understanding boyfriend I had near the end. Grace, on the other hand, has identified as gay since puberty, and never reported any attraction to men at all. She does exhibit some of the common physical features of women with an unusually high level of androgen (for a female) during childhood and puberty, in that she’s unusually tall, has some mildly androgynous features, enjoys sexual dominance, and has always been a bit of a tomboy, never really interested in girly things. Well, other than me. My sister, an MTF transsexual, has been overtly effeminate and identified as female since she was four years old and strongly oriented exclusively to males since the onset of puberty. For none of us was our sexuality a choice.

So, short answer, is it a choice? For males, no, and it seems to be an inborn characteristic. For females, environmental factors are much more important,. For a large portion of females the answer remains no, but for a significant minority of females, it is a choice.

The key thing to remember in all this is that regardless of the cause, there is no good reason to treat homosexuals unfairly or to discriminate against them. How something comes to be the way it is has little to no relation to the value of that thing. Different does not mean sick, and it does not mean bad, and it does not mean harmful. Homosexuality may in some cases result from trauma or other environmental influences, at least in females, but there is nothing morally wrong with it, nor does it harm the individual in any way.

And as my final bit of support for my positions, I'll note that I seem to be in agreement with Ustwo on the major points here, and, to paraphrase him from a few days ago, when Ustwo and I agree on something involving sex, it must be true.

Gilda

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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that.

~Steven Colbert

Willravel

Whoa, that's an amazing post, Gilda!

dd3953

i agree, but i have come to see that gilda always has something interesting to say.
thanks for adding to the conversation

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[Technically, I'm not possible, I'm made of exceptions. ]

rlbond86

the life of the homosexual is more difficult than that of the heterosexual in every way. if it were a choice, who would choose that?