taboo

If you want to move a relationship forward with someone that you love who you already have a serious relationship with, it's obvious that you have to think about many things before making that big decision. You have to weigh the character with the baggage that comes with a person, and see how much of a sacrifice you're willing to make. How much that person is worth sacrificing so many things.. If you decide not to continue a serious relationship with someone you love but have too many issues with (from that person's past, which effects their life to this day every day), does it mean you don;t love them?

I don;t think it does. But I'm curious what you all think of this.. Some people tend to have very divided views on this. Because, when you decide you want to spend the rest of your life with someone, you have to see how many sacrifices you're willing to make for that person, but you also have to look out for your own good. (sounds bad but it;s true). They say you sacrifice everything for love, but it's also a lot about realistic compatibility. And someone's habits ect can really affect your life..

maleficent

Sacraficing everything is not the way to go - - because it means you will lose part of yourself... Relationships are about give and take.... and even compromise... If one person's doing all the sacraficing - -eventually they will get fed up and the relationship suffers.

The past, should be irrelevant, however, it often does have a lot of bearing on who that person is today, so that past can't be discounted... Even more so if that past contains offspring.

__________________

tecoyah

Love is illogical....always has been, and always will be. You can justify the sacrifice it requires in any way you choose, but it does not change the need to give. Just as with all things in this life, we must give to recieve...and Love is the ultimate example of this reality......it may feel wonderful, but it is by no means free.
That said, Love is also a huge risk, and it WILL cause you pain....personally I see the pain as a part of the complicated emotional state we call love. The work, and effort that goes into this state usually gets compensated by the warm fuzzys inherent in the relationship...but not at all times, and not in all cases.

In short...love is a roll of the dice.

__________________
Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

Toaster126

There is nothing wrong with looking out for yourself, especially in a relationship. The idea is that the overall equation of the relationship falls on the positive side by a good margin. Having a rocky relationship that is all highs and lows wouldn't be acceptable to me. I do know some people that can't really function unless there is drama in their lives, and they have to have those turbulant relationships.

Sometimes people are better off not together even though they are in love. Think Pamela Anderson and Tommy Lee. I'm sure they love each other so much they get sick, but there's no way in hell that relationship is healthy.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

ngdawg

I don't see it as sacrificing in the name of love-I see it as how much are you willing to give of yourself? Sacrifice brings a connotation of giving up unwillingly, at least to me. But to be willing to give of yourself, to do so unselfishly is true love.
This is not to say we don't become selfish, ie; 'I gave my heart and all I got was this lousy t-shirt'. But primarily, I feel, when we open ourselves up to loving another, we do so, at least at first, with no expectations. It's only when we start to feel it's all one-sided that the thoughts of 'what am I getting out of this?' start to materialize and we begin to question our motives.
As Mal said, the past is what made the person you love now, so it can't be discounted. It can, however, be left alone.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

taboo

very interesting responses so far..i can see into what you're all saying.
maleficient pointed out something that is very true too: if there are offspring in the picture, a lot more thought and consideration has to go into the equation. And I agree too, that the positive has to definately outweigh the negative.

Is it really bad to be worried for myself, if my SO is 12 years older than me, is divorced and has a kid? I love him very very much, but I can't help worrying about accepting all this baggage (which is "past", but undoubtedly affects him today)..In his eyes, if we end the relationship because I can;t accept these things, it means that I don;t really love him.

maleficent

Doesn't mean that you don't love him - just means that you are at different places in your life...

His child, I hope, is important to him, which means you might not get top billing in his life -- Children tend to come first within reason... When you date a person with children- -that just goes with the territory..

__________________

meembo

Everybody worries about the risks they take, especially if real love is in the equation. Real love comes with real vulnerabilities! Some people we fall in love with respect that more than others. You don't seem to be raising any flags about him specifically, except that you are worried about the paths he has taken to get to you today. His path seems to be a little longer than you had expected, and he has company -- his child.

His child is as much a part of him as his body (if he loves that child, which I guess he does). The child can never be something to be considered separate from him. As long as he is willing to make a space just for the child, and a space just for you, it can work. I've seen relationships like this work. Those relationships are based on two people wanting to be together, not on all the reasons they shouldn't be together. There are always a million reasons not to do something. It's the reasons to take the risk and do it that are most important, IMO.

The one thing I didn't see in your posts is if you think he loves you as well. Is this a concern?

Do you want to be together with him? Is loving him better than being without him? Is there somethig specific in your life you feel you would have to sacrifice in order to be with him?

__________________
less I say, smarter I am

poundpuppy34

I would really like to see what my ex think about this... think i should e-mail it to him?

__________________
fyi: I am a female

william

Love isn't about sacrafice. Why should it be? It is about embracing one another, not what parts to accept and what parts to not. If you feel that you have to sacrafice something, then maybe you should find out why - is it you or the other? You should not have to give up part of yourself to make someone else happy.

Rodney

No, it's not bad. Marriage is supposed to be good for you. You can love someone, but not be sure whether you can grow and flourish with him/her as a person. And if you can't flourish in the relationship, love will either die, or be insufficient to your happiness.

I've loved a couple of people who I did not continue with because I had to work a lot harder to maintain the relationship than they did. I put more in, but they got more out. And it wasn't going to change. Even though I loved them, and they loved me. Because when you think that you need to sacrifice everything for the one you love, you're likely to hook up with people who think it's _perfectly all right_ for you to do that -- for them. But have a limited amount to give back.

If you want to go ahead with your b/f, you need to sit down now and lay out what your life plans are with him -- even if you don't know exactly what they are:

You may know that you want to put aside money for college, a business, etc., be free to start a career and count on his support, want to have kids of your own, and all the rest. And you need to see what he's okay with. And an answer of "Yeah, sure, honey, whatever you want..." ain't good enough. You need to know that he's committed to the discussion, not just agreeing to everything because he hopes you'll forget about it later.

And you need to know what his expections are of you, and whether you're up to them or agree with them.

You need to have these conversations before you go on. It's hard work, but people who care about each other should be willing to do it. If he's not up to this conversation, then he's not really thinking really hard about your well-being as a person. And isn't that what people who love each other should be concerned with?

Finally -- and I just have to say it -- it sounds like he's got a lot more, materially, to gain from this relationship than you do: help with the kid, more financial resources, maybe a bigger house or apartment, _and_ a partner who's a lot younger than him. I'm not saying he's dishonest, but he's got a host of practical reasons to want to bring you into his household. Perhaps that's why he's pushing so hard?

taboo

oh, he loves me like crazy..i see it, i feel it, for sure, 1000%.
thing is, i had always thought that when I get married one day, I would start my own family (from scratch), and have my first kid with someone for the first time (for both of us) ect..and many more things. I'm definately "a good catch" for him (I don;t want to sound full of myself in any way).. I know that I'll never be able to love his kid the way I would love my own*(when I have them). And not only that, but there are all these invisible strings connecting him to his ex-wife...and obviously everything revolves around his kid. He loves his kid to death (as any parent does), so naturally it is a priority for him (and I would expect and want it to be). But, just thinking ahead, about him having to continue to pay alimony for his kid, not being able maybe to move elsewhere (another country) ect, having to resolve problems with his ex-wife...there are so many things that worry me..I feel that my life will always have to depend on the decisions his ex and him will be taking for their son.. And that's just one of many things.. What about old age? I mean, 12 years is a significant difference. Right now, we get along great, but what will happen in 10 years? 15? 20? I know one thing he loves about my character is that I bring a lot of peace and tranquility to his life. But I feel that he depends on me being there to feel good at all. I've become his "aspirin"..I love him very very much, and we have such a strong bond..but I'm very worried..My parents and brother are against me moving ahead with him, for the three reasons I stated above( divorced, much older, kid)..He's a great guy though, and if it weren;t for all these "issues" I would seriously consider moving the relatinship forward. But I'm hesitating big time now...

Sage

taboo, as someone who has been there... if the man you "love" and who "loves" you depends on you in order to feel good... that's not Love, that's dependency. Same as an alcholic needing booze in order to make it through the day... that kind of "love" will leave you washed up, dried out, bitter, and broken.

You've said it right here, you are having DOUBTS. Your family, those who love you and are closest to you, are having DOUBTS. True love doesn't produce DOUBT, true love is pure, seamless, and perfect. You don't have doubts when you love someone 100% and they love you 100% (I mean, big doubts on the level you're having here).

You're young- you haven't had enough time in your life to do everything you want to do (live in another country, for one example). If you go forward with this relationship, most likely you will NEVER do those things. Your guy has a kid, that's his #1 priority- you will ALWAYS be #2... ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS. If he wants "tranquility" in his life, tell him to go take yoga, and stop depending on you.

Please, please, please taboo, don't put yourself through the hell I went through with a guy who "depended" on me for his happiness.... I couldn't bear the thought of another woman going through hell the way I did.

You are capabible of being loved by someone who is perfect for you, not just "good for right now." Let this guy grow up, stop looking for a trophy girlfriend to make him feel better about his age and his divorce, let him go so you can grow up and into a good, fufilled person with the ability to do whatever you want to do!

__________________

taboo

what was the aftermath of the relationship?
what was the outcome?

Biffaloo420

I'm starting to wonder if anyone can think about getting married without having doubts! It's a huge step and crazy thoughts run through everyone's head. However, if you're following your heart then you're doing the right thing. And even if in the future it ends up not working out at least you'll have no regrets!

ratbastid

I'm extremely skeptical of the use of the word "is" to describe anything as subjective as love or relationships. I promise you, my relationship with lurkette "IS" objectively quite different from the vast majority of relationships, but it's created, you know? We devised a set of agreements and lifestyle choices that work for us, and it's ours. There are people who would say it's "wrong", that love "shouldn't" look like that. But fuck that--people who are so busy worrying about how love should be, how it is or isn't... I suspect they spend more time theorizing than they do actually living their lives.

noodle

You can love someone with every molecule of your being and still not be able to make a relationship work. Or want to. Love can, but does not always, conquer all. A child in the mix can be very difficult and affect a relationship in many different ways. I was involved in a relationship with a man who was going through a divorce and has a child who was 3 at the time. It balanced out for awhile because of her age and ability to accept new people. I cannot say that it would have been as easy if she were 6 or 8 at the time. The feelings that I developed for his daughter were a big problem for the relationship because I found it very easy to fall in love with his adorable, intelligent, and mischevious little munchkin. It freaked him out because of his own baggage. We did not have the age difference, but other issues surrounding his daughter and exwife ultimately contributed to the demise of the relationship, in my opinion. In that particular situation there were many other variables that have come and gone, including stereotypes, misconceptions and mistrust that stemmed from some of the above issues. And, even though he depended on me for a lot of emotional support, I couldn't be his therapist (my background) or sacrifice my happiness for his. I learned that the hard way after the second breakup. After the third (*sigh*), I was reminded again that he is going to have to figure out how to help himself and figure out what he wants and how to achieve his own happiness. He's doing it, too, which blows my mind and makes me happy.

Though you love them and they might love you, sometimes the baggage just out exeeds the weight-bearing restrictions of the relationship. It doesn't mean you love them any less.

__________________

ngdawg

Never, ever pass up the chance to be completely, hopelessly in love. Of all the things to regret later in life, it's so much better to say you regretted doing something than to regret NOT doing anything...we only live by doing, and learning from it. Go with your gut, you know the answer.

__________________
Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

taboo

thanks for the replies..
fredweena, i totally understand what you mean!!!!!

now he's starting to notice my behaviour with him changing..
I've been more distant, not as affectionate, and I keep telling him
it's because I can;t be spontaneous and expressive in love, when there are all these issues hovering over my head!!! I have many doubts, and he knows about them, but it's difficult to try and not make them obvious.

I don't like to lie--I much prefer to let someone know exactly what I feel, instead of pretend things are rosy and fine, you know? But I see how much it hurts him... He senses it, and he's told me many times, that he sees exactly where this relationship is going..
anyways...i know i have to act pretty quickly, but everything is in such a sensitive state all the time..