07-09-2007, 07:07 PM | #42 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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dk...the amendment process resulted in the 16th amendment that Paul and other libertarians somehow still consider unconstitutional and that serve as the foundation of their postions:
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-09-2007 at 07:11 PM.. |
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07-09-2007, 07:08 PM | #43 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 07-09-2007 at 07:13 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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07-09-2007, 07:15 PM | #44 (permalink) |
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it seems ron paul would veto every bill as president
i do like his straightforward manner. he answers questions directly and is less likely to rattle off campaign talking points. this is probably a function of his low polling numbers. it is amazing that he has raised more money than mccain in the second quarter ... and almost more than romney if romney had not loaned himself 9 million. some ron paul video can be found here ... http://12.170.145.161/search/basic.a...&image1=Submit |
07-09-2007, 07:16 PM | #45 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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DC, thanks for the discussion. I think it's going to be an interesting election and that it is definitely not too early to start discussing the candidates and the issues. I think people like Ron Paul add some spice and color to the mix. I wonder if Nader will make an appearance too.
I live in Southern California where alot of people have been talking about Ron Paul lately (actually since the last debate, where I think he got alot of attention), and at least feel that Ron Paul is a breath of fresh air. I guess we will just have to wait and see what the year bears out. In the meantime, there are a bunch of other candidates to discuss too. I've been waiting for Elphaba to start a McCain thread. I would love to hear your and others take on Obama. I think he is a very interesting candidate with a lot of potential. The "uniter" thing is a delicate balance though. It could easily go the other way. I know alot of African American's are wary of him and are taking a wait and see approach. They just don't trust him yet nor see him as "one of us". Yet. We will see. Powerclown, I disagree with you about libertarian ideology not caring about "the weaker members of society". At least maybe you and I have different interpretations on it perhaps. I interpret it to be a matter of choice. I don't think libertarians are against helping others, but rather it's more about the choice of choosing to help others, to be free from coercion or being compelled to do things they don't want to. I am very generous and charitable, but I do not want someone else dictating to me who I can help. |
07-09-2007, 07:18 PM | #46 (permalink) | |
spudly
Location: Ellay
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Out of curiosity DK, are you of the opinion that Hamilton and the Federalists were already going too far? Of course, that's a whole other can of worms which could be a great thread, but your answer may help me understand your perspective.
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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam |
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07-09-2007, 07:20 PM | #47 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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trickky....just for the record, Paul did not raise more funds that McCain in the second quarter. He has more cash on hand, because McCain's campaign has been pissing his funds away with a bloated staff, over priced ads, etc:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/q2.asp?cycle=2008
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
07-09-2007, 07:21 PM | #48 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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07-09-2007, 07:28 PM | #49 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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will.....just an old rumor spread by the despicable Karl Rove and the religious right in the 2000 primary campaign, along with charges of an illegitimate dark skinned daughter and a wife who was a drug addict. (best left to another thread)
http://www.democracynow.org/article..../09/03/1457251
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-09-2007 at 07:30 PM.. |
07-09-2007, 07:35 PM | #50 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Detroit, MI
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07-09-2007, 07:37 PM | #51 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Take a look at our history and you'll see example on top of example where the federal gov took more power where they weren't authorized, at least by the constitution. The years after the revolution were just the start. The civil war and the years after were a major power grab for the feds, in fact, the ONLY two good things that came out of the civil war happened to be the 13th and 14th amendments. It was a damn shame that the courts were still of the racist mindset and co-opted the one good thing to come out of the civil war and enact social engineering by judicial fiat. The FDR admin and the new deal tie with post civil war for the worst power grab by the feds. It won't be much longer before states won't really need to elect legislative bodies anymore. Governers will be more like feudal lords than representatives of the people.
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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07-10-2007, 01:47 PM | #52 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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Now that Ron Paul's figures are reported, tt appears he raised as much in the second quarter as Joe Biden, a bit more than Sam Brownback and less than Chris Dodd.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/q2.asp?cycle=2008 Are any of these guys really viable candidates?
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire |
07-10-2007, 07:48 PM | #53 (permalink) | |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I am actually pretty surprised at McCain's struggles. Also, I don't think money necessarily = a win. Perot, Forbes all had tons of money but didn't really get anywhere. I do think Bloomberg is interesting. When the dust settles, we will have 1 Democrat and 1 Republican candidate. I am interested to see what independent or other party candidates turn up. Lieberman? Nader? |
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07-10-2007, 08:28 PM | #54 (permalink) | |||
Upright
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I have been a strong Romney supporter, but lately, I've just been feeling like I need to go whole hog for Paul. I found this video this morning: Somebody asked Dr. Paul about Big Pharma, and he, in one minute just laid out the whole debate. Dr. Paul just gets the WTO. Mr. Romney had better start listening, or he may lose this supporter! Jenny Hatch Quote:
He is also an obstetrician who understands the big pharma companies inside and out. If he had been available as a doctor, I may not have given birth to my last two babies at home. Check out this video - his supporters are rabid constitutionalists and this one too, We Become Silent, he was and is a very important voice in exposing the Big Pharma Frauds and attempted takeover of the supplement industry. Jenny Hatch Quote:
This one was my all time favorite: Showed up on You TUBE recently and it is blasting around the internet.....FREEDOM IS POPULAR! Jenny Hatch Last edited by Jenny Hatch; 07-10-2007 at 08:48 PM.. Reason: fixing links |
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07-10-2007, 08:52 PM | #55 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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I've donated quite a bit of money (for me) to his campaign. First and only time I've donated to a politician.
What I really like about him is he gives off this aura of honesty which is backed up by his voting records. He says what he will do and does it. You may not like his policies, but it's hard to find politician's who are consistant on issues and strickly follow the rule of law.
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
07-11-2007, 04:30 AM | #56 (permalink) | |
Upright
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I like the fact that he left Congress, went home and worked a real job for years before throwing his hat back into the ring. He is not a career politician, and it shows in his ethics and clarity. Jenny |
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07-11-2007, 05:25 AM | #57 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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As for Ron Paul, even with the recent visibility, he is still not even a blip on the radar. In fact, in two recent national polls (USA Today/Gallup and Fox), his numbers have gone down in the last month to less than 1% (its a whopping 2% in CNN, Newsweek and Cook polls): http://pollingreport.com/wh08rep.htm I will take him more seriously as a candidate if he gets anywhere near double digits.....until then, he is just a novelty candidate.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-11-2007 at 05:46 AM.. |
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07-11-2007, 12:01 PM | #58 (permalink) | |
Myrmidon
Location: In the twilight and mist.
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Theres a lot of speculation about why this is exactly It could be because most of his supporters don't have landline telephones, and even those who do won't pick up the phone unless they recognize the number on the caller ID. Why do you have to wait until he gets support from everyone else for you to support him? If his message speaks to you and you think he would be a positive leader, then why not support him?
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Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read. |
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07-11-2007, 01:24 PM | #59 (permalink) |
Location: Washington DC
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ziadel...I am not withholding support for Ron Paul because of his miniscule polling numbers. I posted the polling numbers and his fund raising totals (same as Joe Biden) to show that he is not among the first tier candidates, despite all this talk about his having wide spread, cross-party support.
Other than his position on the war, I dont agree with his approach to government or any solutions that I have seen him propose to the problems we face as a nation....and I dont think he has the experience or leadership qualities to be president. IMO, a`mantra of "its not the government's role" does not demonstrate leadership. I do agree with you on the problems with polling and the fact that many of his supporters might not show up in traditional polls...but that would account for a margin of error of a few percentage points at best....and would probably apply to Barak Obama as well, who also has many young, potential first-time voters. It also doesnt explain the drop to less than 1% in the last month in the USA Today and Fox polls. This is not to demean the enthusiasm for his candidacy by you and others, but I just dont see any evidence of a groundswell of support for Paul.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-11-2007 at 03:08 PM.. |
07-17-2007, 07:41 AM | #60 (permalink) |
Psycho
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The more I hear about Ron Paul, the more I like the guy.
Here's a great interview with him: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCM_wQy4YVg |
07-17-2007, 07:52 AM | #61 (permalink) | |
Myrmidon
Location: In the twilight and mist.
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Also, he's not just saying Goverment should stay out of it, he's referring to Federal Government, meaning California would be free to be California and Montana would be free to be Montana. If you don't like the way things are going where you're at, you can move.
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Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read. |
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07-17-2007, 08:01 AM | #62 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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if you dont want a national economic policy that strengthens our competitiveness in a global economy or a national environmental policy that recognizes that the protection of our air, water and natural resources does not stop at the state borders or a national energy policy that promotes alternative energy and lessens our dependence on foreign oil or if you dont want to see the US remain the world's leader of medical, science and technology R&D or if you want an isolationist rather than a president who will strengthen our bond will allies around the world to confront common defense and national security challenges ...then Vote for Ron Paul
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-17-2007 at 11:33 AM.. |
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07-19-2007, 03:09 PM | #63 (permalink) | |||
Myrmidon
Location: In the twilight and mist.
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Ron Paul doesnt want socialized medicine, like most others do, and socialized medicine is the real enemy of medical adavances In my opinion. Nobody works for free. Quote:
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Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read. |
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07-19-2007, 03:19 PM | #64 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'm pretty sure that he doesn't know how to solve the problem, even though if you look at any other western nation, you can see a system light years ahead of our own and socialized. I wonder if RP would be willing to let his hard line libertarianism go for the benefit of all Americans getting health coverage. |
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07-20-2007, 09:57 AM | #66 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
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RP voted against all these bills: the Clean Energy Act of 2007, the Energy Policy Act of 2005, Securing America's Future Energy (SAFE) Act of 2001...all of which promoted alternative energy development. Quote:
RP voted against funding for NIH in each of the last 4 years. He pretty much voted a blanket NO on every appropriations bill for the last 10 years and I am still waiting for a RP supported to explain how that offers a positive solution and how that would translate to what he would do as President when Congress sends him those bills with bi-partisan support.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-20-2007 at 10:10 AM.. |
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07-20-2007, 06:58 PM | #67 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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07-20-2007, 07:07 PM | #68 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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It's not unconstitutional for the federal government to spend money. Please read the constitution:
http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html |
07-20-2007, 07:45 PM | #70 (permalink) | |
Myrmidon
Location: In the twilight and mist.
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Mebbe he just doesnt agree with how they are funded (taxes)
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Ron Paul '08 Vote for Freedom Go ahead and google Dr. Ron Paul. You'll like what you read. |
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07-20-2007, 09:41 PM | #71 (permalink) | ||
Location: Washington DC
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Article I, Section 8 - Powers of Congresswelfare: welfare n. 1. health, happiness, or prosperity; well-being dk...unless there is a strict definition or enumeration of what constitutes "general welfare" somewhere in the Constitution of which I am not aware or a Supreme Court ruling that narrowly defines "general welfare" as it is applied in Art I, Sec 8, then your argument is baseless. Quote:
What I want to know is how he could possibly maintain that position and govern as President. (No RP supporters seem willing or able to answer that questions, nor does RP himself.) Would he veto every appropriations bill?....Only to have most, if not all, overridden by Congress. Is that really the chaos you want in your federal government? Do you have any idea of the impact that would have on your life...and not in a helpful, positive way.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-20-2007 at 10:16 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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07-20-2007, 11:59 PM | #72 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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spending bills alone are not in violation of the constitution, it's when there are thousands of earmarks that ARE in violation of the constitution, that the whole spending bill is in violation of the constitution. If some of you people are going to actually require to have every damn detail spelled out for you in black and white detail, my posts are going to be longer than hosts. I'm pretty sure that most of you ignore his long ass posts because of this. Quote:
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 07-21-2007 at 12:04 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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07-21-2007, 04:02 AM | #73 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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But unconstitutional? Nope, but if Ron Paul or the Libertarian Party or watchdog organization believe such acts are unconstitutional, they should challenge it in court. You dont get to decide what is legal and what makes upstanding a law-abiding American.....until you're on the Supreme Court,
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-21-2007 at 04:07 AM.. |
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07-21-2007, 07:04 AM | #74 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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I repeat, anyone with a shred of intelligence can read the constitution and clearly understand what powers the government has and what it does not....anyone else is willfully torturing the interpretation to suit their own wants.
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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07-21-2007, 07:15 AM | #75 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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Your self-righteous insistence that you know the Constitution better than many Supreme Court justices and any other citizens who disagree with you on a particular interpretation is tiresome, baseless and insulting.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 07-21-2007 at 07:58 AM.. |
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07-21-2007, 07:49 AM | #76 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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dksuddeth, "if you don't agree with me you are dumb" isn't a very compelling argument.
It might be acceptable if you could ever be bothered to back up the claims you make with anything beyond, "if you don't agree with me you are dumb," but that seems to be a rarity. Really, i'm genuinely interested in the point you're trying to make, it's just difficult really relate to it when you refuse to back it up in any sort of meaningful way. If the ussc isn't capable of interpreting the constitution, what makes you think that you are? |
07-21-2007, 08:23 AM | #77 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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I also noticed that the lower half of the article had a lot to explain about how the feds coerce the states with funding to bring about it's agenda. If it were truly a 'general welfare' purpose then it wouldn't need to worry about recouping funding, as it would be 'general welfare'. It's blindingly obvious to rational people that the feds bribe the states to move a socialist agenda forward and that makes it technically unconstitutional. Quote:
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 07-21-2007 at 08:27 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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07-21-2007, 09:45 AM | #78 (permalink) | |
Easy Rider
Location: Moscow on the Ohio
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"Own piece of land free and clear" Until some polititian wants it for their brother in law to build a shopping center. Also many people who think they own their property are foreclosed on because they cannot afford the taxes. "Bear arms" Only stripped down weapons that fire one shot at a time and do not look nasty. It seems like every year they are trying to take away even these. "Run one's business as he sees fit" No way can we do this. We can't hire and fire at will and in many cases can't even choose who we want to do business with. Not to mention the numerous regulations some designed to limit competition and protect polititians campaign contributors, etc.. |
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