10-12-2007, 07:19 PM | #161 (permalink) | ||
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Your argument is ridiculous. But I shouldn't expect a logical conclusion from someone who denies the existence of climate change despite the overwhelming consensus of climate scientists. |
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10-13-2007, 08:02 AM | #162 (permalink) | |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
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On the other hand, Ron Paul was on PBS yesterday giving on of his best interviews yet. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CA7jHaowNME# http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWdz1pnAFUA# I don't think he will be able to ax everything and create chaos, but we need to be put back on a sustainable path. 9 Trillion in debt, when we probably would be at 1-2 trillion if B. Clinton's policies were still in place is just one issue. |
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10-13-2007, 08:33 AM | #163 (permalink) | |||||||||
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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10-13-2007, 09:28 AM | #164 (permalink) |
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I don't know about you, but I wouldn't trust the states to keep the interstates in order. Places like Alabama would probably just let the roads rot. And I damn well wouldn't trust a company to do the flu shots, they would charge too much. The TVA makes cheaper electricity than any power company; in fact the TVA was created because no company would give that region power. Without national labs, our country will be doomed to fall behind China in technology. Without the Federal Government running Embassies, there is no safe haven for Americans around the world. Your retorts are sophomoric and display a true lack of understanding.
Oh yes, the "loony left" claims that climate change is bad. And by loony left, you of course mean the large majority of climatologists, meteorologists, and geologists who all have Ph.D's in this stuff and study it THEIR WHOLE LIVES. Yes, you know better than all of them! This is the problem with America today. Here's the new rule: IF YOU ARE NOT A CLIMATE SCIENTIST, JUST SHUT UP ABOUT GLOBAL WARMING. YOU DO NOT KNOW HOW IT WORKS. "Recent research strongly reinforces our previous conclusions. It is unequivocal that the climate is changing, and it is very likely that this is predominantly caused by the increasing human interference with the atmosphere. These changes will transform the environmental conditions on Earth unless counter-measures are taken." Signed by: Academia Brasileira de Ciéncias, Brazil Académie des Sciences, France Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy Russian Academy of Sciences, Russia National Academy of Sciences, United States of America Royal Society of Canada, Canada Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher, Leopoldina, Germany Science Council of Japan, Japan Academy of Science of South Africa, South Africa Chinese Academy of Sciences, China Indian National Science Academy, India Academia Mexicana de Ciencias, Mexico Royal Society, United Kingdom http://www.pik-potsdam.de/news-1/joi...2019-statement You display the same fundamentalist attitude of the Bush Administration that you are correct no matter what, that things are black or white, and that you understand what is best, rather than people who study these things their whole lives. You show far too much faith in the "invisible hand," but the invisible hand leads to things like Enron, and your answer to everything is "let the states handle it." Here's a question to ponder: how do we pay off our national debt if we do not collect taxes? A large portion of the national debt is owed to China. If we stop collecting taxes, they are bound to come knocking demanding their money. What then? Last edited by rlbond86; 10-13-2007 at 09:36 AM.. |
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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10-13-2007, 11:19 AM | #166 (permalink) | |
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dk...do you think private industry would regulate their environmental practices better than the EPA?
I kinda like the results of the Clean Air Act, Clean Water Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, Solid Waste Disposal Act. or the securities industry regulate itself better than the SEC? I'm not a big fan of insider trading. or the food industry regulate itself better than the Dept of Ag? I like the know my beef has been inspected for mad cow I kinda like the US Patent Office and the knowledge that intellectual property is protected....And the Consumer Product Safety Commission and the knowledge that dangerous toys will be recalled. None of these agencies are perfect, but do you really believe industry can be trusted to regulate itself? Quote:
The IPCC assessments are based on peer-reviewed scientific and technical literature. The IPCC reports are written by teams of authors from all over the world who are recognized experts in their field. They represent relevant disciplines as well as differing scientific perspectives. This global coverage of expertise, the interdisciplinary nature of the IPCC team, and the transparency of the process, constitute the Panel's strongest assets.
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-13-2007 at 11:26 AM.. |
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10-13-2007, 11:49 AM | #167 (permalink) | ||||||
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A government by the people and sympathetic to the concerns of the overwhelming majority...(and eliminating progressive income tax and inheritance taxes, and campaigning for deregulation of the monopolistic and opportunistic and politically controlling activities of the welathiest is advocated or will result from Paul's policies)... is the opposite of what you, Ron Paul, and his supporters advocate. You will unwittingly create the impetus for....only if we're fortune enough to have it evolve peacefully....the rise of a reactionary figure very similar to HUGO CHAVEZ ! dksuddeth, I'm only going to contest a small portion of the opinions in your post. If you post supporting information for your opinions, I'll be happy to read it and respond.... I am struck by my perceived consequences if your politics. If your views were to prevail in the US, the rich would be richer, and large areas of the US, where it is unprofitable or unreasonable due to risk vs. return considerations...to distribute electric power to remote, difficult to access, or sparsely populated areas....millions would still be living without it..... In Ron Paul's congressional district: Quote:
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10-13-2007, 12:33 PM | #168 (permalink) | ||
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10-18-2007, 10:10 PM | #169 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Vancouver. No, the OTHER Vancouver
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If anyone in particular is in the know here - what does RP think regarding bailouts of large companies by the government? Is he a "save the lobbyist", or a "let the chips fall where they may and let companies pay for their mistakes" kind of guy?
Thanks!
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Visualize Whirled Peas. |
10-19-2007, 06:32 PM | #170 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: In transit
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In truth, a lot of Ron Paul's ideas may not be workable in practice. But he doesn't have a chance in hell of enacting a fraction of his ideas (at least in their current form) even if he is, by some miracle, elected president.
The biggest thing that appeals to me, is that he may help shift the governments focus. Right now all the other candidates are arguing over the best way to expand governments power and entitlement programs. Paul would turn the debate in Washington in the direction I feel we most need... towards fixing and trimming the federal government.
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Remember, wherever you go... there you are. |
10-19-2007, 10:49 PM | #171 (permalink) |
Upright
Location: South of the Donna-Dixon Line
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Unfortunately, he doesn't stand a chance. He is getting added exposure which is refreshing, but in the end he will be 'out' by spring. If the democrats didn't have a woman, and a black man running for the office at the same time, he might be able to swing alot more 2 party votes.
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10-19-2007, 11:52 PM | #172 (permalink) | |||||||||
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THis is an appeal to you to consider the fact that Ron Paul will serve to accelerate the consolidation of the small portion of wealth in the US that the richest do not already own....into their hands, and you work against your best interests if you support his candidacy. "Big government" is not the problem....the problem is government controlled by the few, with a decidedly non-populist agenda. Why is government in some European countries able to operate in the best interests of the majority, but not in the US? <h3>Someday, when your grandchildren ask why the wealth in the US is so unequally divided, you can say that you helped make the disparity even more drastic...that your politics helped to accelerate the demise of what remained of a once thriving middle class. The beginning of the end of the growth of the US middle class began with this, in 1946....Ron Paul offers no solutions to any of what follows:</h3> Quote:
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<h3>...and 35 years later.... the top 5 percent own 58.9 percent of everything, vs. the top 4 percent owing 37 percent of US wealth in 1969....</h3> Quote:
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~Bush has stacked the National Labor Relations BOard with anti union/anti worker POS appointees such as...KIrsanow. Instead of protecting workers rights, the agenda is to eliminate them: Quote:
(The NLRB was manned by statuatory five members when Bush took office....) Quote:
Is it because you've allowed the weakthy to divide you...to appeal to your ego and individualism.....because....someday.....you'll be wealthy and you won't want to be heavily taxed.... Someday....the wealthiest will own 90 percent of total US wealth, there will be no unionized employees....and your grandchildren will be serfs...because you bought the BS of conservatives and libertarian-constitutionalists. The weakthy chucjke softly to themselves as the listen to you yearn for a Neil Boortz described, libertarian "utopia". It's bullshit. Government and tazation are there for a populist wave to take control of and reverse this decline. The French and the Swedes don't permit their rich to own their government.....why do you want to give it away? FEMA functioned during the '90's...only the management was changed....Ron Paul offers nothing to the overwhelming majority in the US.....the 90 percent who own less than thirty percent of all US wealth...... Last edited by host; 10-20-2007 at 12:17 AM.. |
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10-20-2007, 12:21 AM | #173 (permalink) |
spudly
Location: Ellay
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Host, can you comment on Ron Paul's specific policies? To characterize him simply as Reaganesque is kind of blunt and well...inaccurate. In particular I'm curious to know your thoughts on his position viz the Fed, gold standard, etc.
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Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam |
10-20-2007, 08:54 AM | #174 (permalink) |
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Host, I like how you equate Ron Paul to the Republican party. When you know he's a libertarian and his entire party has practically disowned him. Tom Delay even gerrymanderded his district to try and let a Democrat win against him.
Ever notice how as our government has gotten bigger the wealth consolidation has gotten worse not better? Not the other way around.... And once again I'm not voting for your failed party like you said to do in 04,06, and now 08. They are just as bad as the other Republicans thank you very much. Your articles have nothing to do with Ron Paul and are a failed attmept at smearing him.
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
10-20-2007, 09:19 AM | #175 (permalink) | |
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You can't eliminate the federal government, and this is exactly what RP wants to do. It's insane and will surely destroy everything this country is. That is why I do not support Ron Paul, and frankly if anyone looks over his positions and still supports him, I think they're missing a few screws. He's just a stupid internet fad. |
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10-20-2007, 09:22 AM | #176 (permalink) | |
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Paul is the only candidate even mentioning the devaluation of the dollar. Hes the only one that is even acknowledging the out of control spending, and borrowing from the fed, which drives inflation. The inflation tax hits the poor hardest of all. His policies are much more sound that your modern republican who wants to slash taxes for political gain, while spending even more and borrowing a whole lot more, all the while refusing to raise minimum wage... meanwhile the dollar continues to deflate.
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Remember, wherever you go... there you are. |
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10-20-2007, 10:17 AM | #178 (permalink) | |
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Location: Indiana
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Ron Paul didn't go looking to the internet for supporters, the internet found him. No other candidates are achieving this kind of spontaneous support.
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
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10-20-2007, 10:30 AM | #179 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Interestingly about 3 weeks ago Ron Paul signs showed up in at least my part of the state.
They are the only political signs out or about at this time and they are on about every street corner, including hand made ones over a couple of viaducts.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-20-2007, 10:30 AM | #180 (permalink) |
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His supporters understand viral marketing better. His tiny baseline in the beginning was simply better at running a campaign. He's been able to take advantage of the first real eCampaign.It's got less to do with his message, which is actually quite mad, and more to do with advertising buzz stances, like those on the Fed and net neutrality. As DC and now host have pointed out, and I even chimed in a bit, his policies are too libertarian to make the country better. He's a fanatical libertarian.
As for support, Hillary will win the 2008 election against Googliani. It's not what most people want (I'd be a bit happier with Obama, and much happier with Kucinich, obviously), but it's the reality. |
10-20-2007, 10:32 AM | #181 (permalink) | |
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-20-2007, 10:35 AM | #182 (permalink) | |
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10-20-2007, 10:37 AM | #183 (permalink) | ||
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The federal government has certain powers, all Ron Paul says is maybe they should only do what they have the power to do. I guess that's extreme radicalism nowadays. Maybe I'm with Al Qaida or should be given meds I dunno... The Federal Government has the authority to create postal roads. Since you apparently have never read it, or maybe think we should just abolish it, here's a section from the constitution that says what the Congress CAN do. Quote:
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
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10-20-2007, 10:44 AM | #184 (permalink) |
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Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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It's been my experience, and it isn't in reference to anyone here in particular, that there are many ron paul supporters who have very little awareness about what the man is actually about. Generally it's a matter of, "Oh snap, he wants to abolish the income tax? Sign me up," or, "Wait. A republican who believes in fiscal responsibility? Ha! What a novelty- he has my vote."
They're usually a little dumbstruck when it comes up that he wants to abolish the fcc. They generally think its a good idea initially, because, you know, the fcc won't let you say "fuck" on network television. Then when you tell them that the fcc is also largely responsible for the fact that you can get only one station on your radio per frequency or the fact that your toaster doesn't intefere with your cell phone reception you kind of get a sideways look, and then the conversation ends. And that about sums up the lot of them for me. |
10-20-2007, 10:58 AM | #185 (permalink) | |
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Here's a nice article on the issue: http://www.news.com/2010-1028-5226979.html Quote:
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Remember, wherever you go... there you are. |
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10-20-2007, 01:21 PM | #187 (permalink) | ||
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10-20-2007, 02:01 PM | #188 (permalink) | ||||||
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ONE mo' TIME....THE WEALTHIEST ARE RAPING YOU OF YOUR FAIR SHARE OF THE PIE....ALL THE WAY BACK TO 1946....you have been manipulated into believing that "government doesn't work"...it works fine for Mr. Bush's wealthy patrons....their agenda of "change" is what gave them huge tax cuts and increased your US Treasury debt from $5.65 trillion in 2001 to $9 trillion, now. <h3>Whether Ron Paul is a republican, a consitutionalist, or a libertarian is irrelevant.</h3> He is not committed to progressive taxation with high top tax rates on the highest incomes, and he is not a strong advocate for union organizing or enforcement of labor laws and OSHA, or for innovative new measures to use government to reverse the concentration of wealth in so few hands. Ron Paul will receive few votes because he does not address the inequality of wealth distribution in the US. John Edwards does address and offer tepid solutions to the problem. The problem is at a critical stage, yet no one wants to talk about it. Will we wait until it's effects trigger the rise of a US "Hugo Chavez"....or will we advocate for a populist, pro-union, pro consumer pro middle class, political agenda? We have the superior numbers..(why do you think the DOJ concentrated on suppressing the vote ?)..we can vote in a leadership that will act in our interests....your reaction to the following, is to vote for Ron Paul....a candidate who wants smaller government...wants to abolish tha IRS and the progressive income tax that featured a top tax rate, when Reagan took office in 1981....of 70 percent on only the highest incomes. That tax rate was "reformed", and it led to the following disparity. Ron Paul and you want even more of it.... Quote:
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Government can function...it can provide good programs....the coming wave of mortgage foreclosures justifies the need for programs like this. Study how and why it is so successful.....duplicate it....Ron Paul and his supporters are not interested: Quote:
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<h2>Your support of candidate Paul...isn't...</h2> <h3>Your reaction to the information displayed in this post's first quote box</h3>....backing a candidate such as Ron Paul....a man committed to making government irrelevant in the face of the only "real" political struggle...the one between the controlling elite vs. the rest of us...<h3>is an irrational one.</h3> You only have to study the equitable wealth distribution achievments of strong populist politcal power in France, Denmark, and Sweden, to confirm what I'm telling you. Your candidate Paul, will do nothing to slow the trend of wealth concentration, and the result will be revolutionary and not without huge, avoidable misery. Last edited by host; 10-20-2007 at 02:31 PM.. |
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10-20-2007, 03:51 PM | #189 (permalink) |
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Host, I still don't really get the connections here... Any of the other candidates are going to improve the situation how exactly? If you subscribe to the philosophy of using income tax to equalize incomes, than I could see your point. I dont. From what I know of most of the other candidates, they will do nothing but increase income disparity, with continued spending and borrowing, driving up the inflation tax. (national health care? are you kidding me... nice idea.. no money).
Ron Paul doesn't want to abolish all regulation for the benefit of the super-rich. Its to give the states back their power to regulate. This will obviously create some competition between the states, but states will be free to experiment with new policy (drug policy would be a good example). As other states see what works and what doesn't, they refine and improve on what others have done. We all benefit. In this scenario, each individual, including the poor, have a much bigger impact over the policies, regulations, and taxes in their locality. Its not unleashing the reigns on big business so they have free for all on the unsuspecting public. Its giving the small fish a much smaller pond.
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Remember, wherever you go... there you are. |
10-20-2007, 04:04 PM | #190 (permalink) | |
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There is, in fact, NO REASON for states to compete. Why would they? Nobody is going to move to another state, where they have to find a new job, a new house, etc. What if you specialize in semiconductor fabrication? Well, you have to live in California. Aerospace engineering? Well, you'd better be in Illinois or Texas. People are, for the most part, stuck where their jobs are. States are not better-natured than the government. Now we just will have 51 really inefficient governments instead of 1 really inefficient government and 50 slightly less inefficient governments. Saying "let the states do it" isn't a solution. It's a cop-out. |
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10-20-2007, 04:13 PM | #191 (permalink) |
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A true libertarian government would be the best thing to happen to this country, but that won't happen until after a revolution or two.
There comes a point where the money runs out and the takers out take the producers. Fifteen years ago I thought 2050ish would be the time for this revolution, and I still think we are on track.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-20-2007, 04:34 PM | #192 (permalink) | |
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10-20-2007, 04:40 PM | #193 (permalink) | ||||||
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...and sprocket, there is no peaceful, practical way to reverse wealth concentration.... <h3>(wealth buys political influence, negating the potenital of the populist voting superiority, if the people let themselves be fooled),</h3> ....other than by a progressive income tax. We achieved a strong middle class through two changes.....high progressive taxation....the momentum...choked off in 1946.... Quote:
If I'm wrong, why has Bush, winger "think tanks", and maggots like the John Olin foundation, spent so much money and political effort to bring down the labor supporting, NLRB? Your politics, and Ron Pauls.....sprocket, have "it"...exactly backwards. You want to divide federal power of oversight and regulation....and distribute it "among the states".....that is a "divide and conquer" strategy that has not gone away since the populist progress in reaction to the Great Depression of the 1930's.....there is only one way to attempt to restore the US middle class, and John Edwards....however feebly...is the only candidate to even address it..... We've lived through "States Rights" politics....it's a much harder political atmosphere to reform, than the current one. "Reform", as in populist...people prioritized change...the opposite of what Ron Paul's presidency would bring. "States Rights"....aside from permitting segregation to be the local law until 1969, in Georgia schools, brought us the Union busting, "Right to Work"....which pitted the northern, closed shop states, against sunbelt states. North Carolina's state mandated "Right to Work", provided anincentive for manufacturers to leave northern states, and set up shop in a southern state with much lower wages and a workforce that was not union represented, and would do what it was told. Those manufacturers moved on to still lower wage Mexico, and from there....to Asia: Quote:
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http://www.mediatransparency.org/rec...rants.php?1128 We need this "reform", today: Republican Eisenhower was president when the top rate was <a href="http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php">91 percent</a> (on annual income above $400,000), when new college graduates often worked for less than $4000 per year....and the <a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f04.html">Gini coefficient was 35.1</a>....it's 44 now. The U.S. has experienced political shifts, beginning with the the "great depression" in the 1932 elections, that transferred the presidency to a democrat.......and democrats dominated in the executive and legislative branches, with the exception of the 8 year Eisenhower presidency, for the next 36 years. Compared to later republican presidents, Eisenhower could be described as a "centrist". Today on a webpage at the Milton S. Eisenhower Foundation site, (Milton was the late younger brother of republican president Dwight Eisenhower,) the following is displayed: Quote:
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10-20-2007, 05:16 PM | #194 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-20-2007, 05:56 PM | #195 (permalink) |
Getting it.
Super Moderator
Location: Lion City
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Ustwo, are you suggesting that the natural evolution (for lack of a better word) of our current democracies is a libertarian form of government?
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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke |
10-20-2007, 06:23 PM | #196 (permalink) | |
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I think you need a 'normal' democracy to lead to a libertarian democracy, more as a bad example, but its not a natural evolution. While real evolution is not directed, human governments are, they are 'intelligently designed' so to speak. The variable though is the individuals involved. A strong leader, or strongman at the right/wrong place and time can make all the difference, much like a mutation. So the wildcards are out there, and this is one possibility. Lets just say as an old man I'll be cheering for it, over the totalitarianism on the other side.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
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10-20-2007, 07:27 PM | #198 (permalink) | |||
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"Republican Eisenhower was president when the top rate was <a href="http://www.truthandpolitics.org/top-rates.php">91 percent</a> (on annual income above $400,000), when new college graduates often worked for less than $4000 per year....and the <a href="http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/f04.html">Gini coefficient was 35.1</a>....it's 44 now." .....the elite have spent their capital building a US "system" that raised the tax on 100 percent of most workers wages, in a Reagan era, 1983 SSI "reform": <h3>View How Much The SSI Surplus Grew During Bush's Terms...and it's GONE....SPENT TO DISGUISE THE SIZE OF BUSH'S ACTUAL DEFICITS:</h3> http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/STATS/table4a1.html Quote:
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The current president took office with no borrowing of surplus SSI collections necessary.....he promptly granted his wealthy patrons a huge tax relief, and for six years,,,,,all of the SSI surplus collected has been borrowed....with bonds issued to the SSI trust fund as compensation for the surplus spent, and for the $100 million annual interest owed to the trust fund on the $1850 billion outstanding debt..... No socialist democracy here, to fail, UStwo.....instead, we live in a system coming closer every day in similarity to the one in pre-Hugo Chavez Venezuela.....and the solution is always a populist revolution..... You don't recognize the excess....it's an effing crisis now......but you want to protect a broken system where the day is coming....especially with the emerging destruction of housing valuations.....where the elite ten percent will own 90 percent of total US wealth.....Would that figure be enough to effing convince you that something is "amiss"......THE DENIAL AND REFLEXIVE BRAIN DEAD POV's posted here are effing astounding...... The US is becoming an economic twin to a South or Central American debt slave country...ala Mexico, Brazil, or Venezuela....and nobody even views it as an effing problem....because we're tooooooooooo "socialist". When you're working for tips and the wealthiest own all of everything, mayber you'll wake the eff up and wonder why you didn't use your sheer numbers of voting power to tax the wealth and the stranglehold against labor organizing, away from these elite maggots.......DON'T the Trend and the Numbers....44 Gini vs. 35 in the 1970's....vs. 24 in Japan and in Denmark.....and the rising US poverty rate....even cause you to have a Clue????? We're headed for an economic status quo that looks like Manhattan. Huge numbers of low wage servants.....serving a super wealthy establishment. They suck up a low cost living of cheap cab rides, restaurant meals, domestic help, and a plethora of other inexpensive services.....fed by a wave of immigrant labor that makes no demands and is paid whatever employers feel like paying. The labor has no bargaining power, and cannot afford to live in proximity to their low paying jobs...... UStwo's "socialist" democracy !!!!!!!!!! Last edited by host; 10-20-2007 at 07:32 PM.. |
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...I'm starting to wonder if there is no one to vote for...because the wealthy elite own everyone who announces their candidacy......am I being paranoid? |
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