frozenstellar

a very close friend of mine, in whom i used to date, but now we're just friends, like we have been for ~18months, i've watched on as she's taken a path that is one that will lead to nothing but trouble.

she's 17, and the guy she's with is 19. now, the guy is a use-to-be mate, we had our differences a few years back, and i've distanced myself from him, however he's still under the influence that i have no issues with him.

the reason behind me having a strong disliking for him are as follows:

• substance abuser - alcohol and weed mainly last i heard, wouldnt surprise me if he's taking other shit
• not here and there usage either - bare minimum is daily. everytime i've come across him in the past 2years he's been off his tree
• NO respect for females - he became violent to another close friend when she refused to sleep with him, resulted in a broken jaw
• downright dirty sleaze & since dropping out of highschool 2 years ago has NOT done a thing

she dabbles here and there with a bit of alcohol, weed here and there (not often at all), and is generally a gorgeous girl. she's only recently overcome the breakup of the last guy she was with - who in comparison to the new bloke was an angel.

i've seen what he's done to females, she's witnessed with her own eyes that he has no respect for females (at her party, he was there with his gf of around 6months (she's another friend of mine), and he tried to crackon to another chick whilist she was there, and would not take no for an answer til me and a buddy stood in and said 'whats your girlfriend think about this?' 'oh, she doesnt know, what she doesnt know wont hurt her' 'is that so? perhaps you'd better reconsider mate, because she doesnt deserve to be cheated on'

10minutes later, he comes back 'its not cheating no more', and keeps trying to pickup the other chick. then his girlfriend comes back in tears cuz he broke up with her to have a shot at someone else.

now how the fuck does this make sense, that she'd be willing to put up with this? she saw it, she knows what he does yet refuses to be with him?

i cant make logical sense of it, i dont want to see her fall apart like she did after breaking up with the last bloke she was with, cuz i know i'll end up being there for her again when it does, after constant warning about his ways. she's come too far to have some scummy bastard fuck her over again.

and no, we're friends, and thats it. i'm very happy with my woman, and this is not a jealousy thing. this is 'dont want to watch her fall apart again' thing. nothing else.

Thraeryn

Subconsciously, I think it's a "dominance" thing. Maybe she doesn't want to worry about thinking or making decisions. I'm sure he'll make them for her. There won't be any conflict, so long as she does exactly what he wants. Maybe she's just into rough sex and doesn't know that "good" guys can dish it out, too. Maybe she wants someone she can lie to/cheat on and not feel bad about it. Maybe she thinks on some horribly self-deluding level that he's a "challenge", and that she can whip him into shape.

My advice is to step back and cut yourself off from her. If she enjoys being with him, then you're only going to make yourself crazy. You'll try to convince her he's a scumbucket, and it will drive her further into his arms. Don't tell her you're cutting her off, as that will have the same effect: just don't be there any more. If she's ever destined to figure things out, inexplicably losing all of her friends (yes, you'd better tell the rest of her friends to do the same thing) will put her on the right track. (Of course, I doubt he'd let her see any of her friends from before they were together anyway. He's just waiting for the opportunity to cut you all off.)

lurkette

If friends could really keep friends from making dumbass choices there wouldn't be advice columns.

You can voice your opinion to her, but beyond that it's up to her to make her own mistakes. Tell her you're concerned and that you respect her choices but you can't stand to watch her make this mistake, and can't be around her and the scummy boyfriend. If she wants help getting out or getting over him, you're there for her to support her, but you can't condone his behavior and you hate to watch her be degraded like that.

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Thraeryn

Um, I like you a lot, lurkette.

BZZZZZZZZZT.

Telling your friend what you're doing, even gently, is still trying to overtly influence her decisions. For whatever reason, in this circumstance, it's like snapping a bullwhip at her: YOU know you're just trying to get her back in line, but she ends up on the other side of the cage.

There is no good way to put it. Do everything in lurkette's post except tell her that you're cutting her off because you can't condone his behavior and watch her be degraded. Support her if/when she comes back, but never, never, never tell her she's making a mistake, etc. That will make her believe that you're not on "her" side which, at the moment, is his side. Just mysteriously don't be around.

Cynthetiq

sometimes you have to just watch the friend... and let them do their thing... so long as it doesn't kill or maim anyone or jeopardize any children... and it only hurts the individuals involved... then I say let them be.

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lurkette

I like you, too, Thrae

But we may have to agree to disagree on this one. If she finds herself suddenly, mysteriously isolated, all she has is the boyfriend to turn to. If, however, she finds herself isolated and knows (because you've told her) that the cure to said isolation is dumping the boyfriend, then it's not the same as being on the boyfriend's side. It's being on her side, just from a distance.

Easy for us to argue about this from over here, since it's not our lives and it's all hypothetical. And I'll be the first to admit I have no experience getting people to change their behavior (and believe me I've tried), so if Thraeryn's method has a proven track record, go for it.

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Thraeryn

That's where I'm basing my answer from. I had a friend who was in a horrible relationship with a guy, and I let her know that I didn't think he was right for her, that I wasn't going to listen to her bitch about how he controlled her if she wasn't going to leave. It just didn't help. She felt like I was taking a stand against her, when I was only taking a stand against a decision she'd made.

It took her being left alone to change her mind. When left alone, she DID have to turn to him exclusively, and she realized herself that yes, he really, really was a dick. THEN she left and apologized to me for not taking my advice.

As a compromise, you can be sketchy on why you're not spending as much time talking for a little while, then mention offhandedly when she asks that you don't really like X. Then just keep fading away.

Apex Shok

And just be there and listen when they realize what a mistake they have made.

rodgerd

Unfortunately, you can't force people to make good decisions. Sad, but true.

If it's any comfort, I noticed a general trend among many of the women I know: a lot of them hooked up with jerks when they were in their teens and early twenties; arrogance and danger were exciting and worked a powerful fascination on them. By their mid-twenties most of them got sick of arseholes and got their shit together relationship wise. It seems to be a phase many women go through.

That said, where you ought to become worried is if her use of booze/drugs ramps up, or if you start seeing classic signs of abuse (being cut off from old friends, covering up more than normal, and so on), because it's going from a "silly phase" to dangerous. Even then, your options can be pretty limited: you can try to stage some sort of intervention, but that doesn't always work out how you intended. You can try to tell the boyfriend to piss off, but again, doesn't always work.

bermuDa

sometimes you just have to let people make mistakes, otherwise they'll never learn their own lessons. It's the hardest thing to do when you care about someone, but they have to figure things out for themselves.

You might want to give the bf a 'friendly' warning, that if he hurts her, you'll make him hurt.

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Journeyman

Not my quote and it's not verbatim and I dunno where I heard it, but...

"What is it with women who always complain how they want a sensitive, caring nice guy who will appreciate them for who they are and then they turn around and date the first prick that slaps their ass and calls them a cumbucket?"

clavus

Some girls are just hopelessly attracted to guys who are total assholes. There is no power on earth to change their ways.

Hang around long enough, and be there when she needs a friend.

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guthmund

You can't stop people from making their own choices.

It would be easier to try to empty the ocean with a little plastic bucket.

We've all been on the other side of this situation. One where our friends are telling us this is an ill-advised action. Did we listen to them?

This gal is going to do exactly what she wants to do and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Now you can cut her off and tell her she's making a stupid mistake and until she realizes it you're not going to talk to her or you can simply be there to support her when she realizes that she's taken the wrong road.

What kind of friend would you want?

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dogbone

thats tough. unfortunately some chics are attracted to asshole losers. in my opinion your best bet is to express your opinion to all involved, then let the relationship take its course and always be there for support.