Plan9

Xazy, a bloody crotch meatball is not a child.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Xerxys

I'm not betting against this man, I can see this thread happening sooner than later.

And also,

soma

Yes, it certainly is sad that she had a miscarriage. She was definitely more emotionally attached to the baby.

The thought of breaking up with her has crossed my mind for sure, but at this point, she's too emotionally fragile for me to do that. I'd feel really bad if I did.

Regarding this 10$ bet floating around, I don't understanding the reasoning for it? Is it because I'm a dumbass and will continue getting into trouble? Is it because me and this girl will always have issues? I'm not mad or offended, just curious.

Also, the things I post here are my private thoughts and feelings. I didn't do a little song and dance around her when I got the news and tried to be as sensitive and supportive as possible.

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Having Girl Problems?

Cynthetiq

And here some people thought you were doing Numfar's dance of joy


I was trying to explain that about your thoughts and feelings being posted here.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Plan9

You could have fooled us.

...

Too fragile to break up with now? Oh, and a month from now will be a better time? Stop blowing sunshine up her ass. And stop playing hero. Kick her troubled ass to the curb (don't worry, she'll find another sucker) and check your pecker for a helmet the next time you head into the great unknown.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

Yeah, regardless of timing, you're gonna be a dick in her mind. Just get it over with.

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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Pearl Trade

Break it off with her now. I'm tired of guys saying they don't want to feel bad about dumping a girl, you'll feel bad no matter what. She will get over it, just as you will. It's obvious you want to break up with her and it's even more obvious that she isn't mentally prepared for a relationship right now. In fact, you're not ready for it either if you can't accept the consequences of sex. Stop making excuses and let her go, it's now or never.

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Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

soma

Ok guys, message received. I'm going camping this weekend with some of my guy friends and I'll see what they think about breaking up with her.

But yeah, another reason why I hesitate to break up with her now is because we have a lot of mutual friends, and I know they will all tell me I'm a shitty person for leaving her when she needs me the most (and she has been super needy since she had her miscarriage).

Anyway, I'll keep you guys updated here. I know I will always get good advice from the TFP

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Having Girl Problems?

dlish

i disagree with some of the last few comments. The kid's got a choice. Let him be the one to make it. He doesnt HAVE to break up with her. He needs to do whats in his best interest, and that why he needs to have a long hard think about his situation.

getting that space on a camping trip with the boys will help.

as far as the mutual friends thing goes, they'll think she's a shittier person for cheating on you.

good luck soma

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An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

The_Jazz

I remain skeptical. Not necessarily about you, soma. You've been around long enough that my question about you trolling us was asking a question whose answer I already knew.

I'm not 100% convinced she was ever pregnant. I don't see where you explicitely stated that you'd been to the doctor with her. If you did, obviously you're not being tricked. And based on other threads, I still see that as a real possibility.

Now, about the rest - frankly I'm disappointed in a lot of folks here. We don't treat other long-timers like this. Not cool.

But there's a kernel of wisdom from the mouths of insensitive douches: don't stick your dick in this girl again. You don't have to break up with her immediately - your Real Life friends that are telling you not to do that are right. It would make you a real asshole. And you're not one, are you?

You can stay with her for a bit before you break it off. You were already drifting apart. This is a stressful thing for any relationship, and it's going to almost certainly drive the two of you apart. There's no guidebook for this sort of thing, but you've got to give her some time to get herself back together before you break up with her. Remember the Campsite Rule of Dating - always leave the other party in better condition than you found them (usually that only applies if there's a big age difference, but I think it's relevant here).

No one is saying you have to stay with her long-term. I'm only saying don't ever have sex with her again (for obvious fertility reasons) and give her some time before you break it off. Do the right thing.

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"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cimarron29414

Jazz,

I have to disagree with you here. Re-read post 19. This is not a woman who has his best interests even on her radar. A woman who lives at home with her parents while going to school for a useless degree, while ringing up student loans that will never be paid off by such a useless degree, who gets knocked up and decides the best thing for her future is to raise the child, effectively abandoning her useless degree but keeping the student loans so that he can pay them off with his hot new masters degree....well, I can't envision a good future with this person.

If you can't envision a future with someone, you break up with them immediately. You owe it to yourself and them.

Sorry soma, I just envision you as thinking of 20 reasons why it's not the right time and 2 years from now, you are unhappily married to the mother of your child(ren), no support from your parents, and drowning in student loan debt. There really is nothing like getting up to go to your "9-5" knowing you have to work until 11:30 for the student loan corporation - courtesy of baby momma.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Plan9

So what if it's true?

Well goddamn, my thoughts exactly.

/insensitive douche

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

The_Jazz

No, I read that. After all, I got all pissy about people not reading the entire thread back in #58, and I made sure to reaquaint myself with the entire situation before my last post.

And this isn't about whether or not she's got his best interest at heart. Or your low opinion of film studies majors (FYI - I've got what I'm sure you would consider a "worthless" degree yet I'm arguably the most successful person on this board. Go figure.). Or even if he should stay with her long term. I consider those questions either asked and answered or immaterial.

At this point, we're at "WHAT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES". That's regardless of how she's treated him or if she sees a future for them. If you carefully (or even not so carefully) reread my #90 post, you'll see that I don't think they have any future together. But the woman just suffered a miscarriage and you want her kicked to the curb. Where's your compassion? Where's your sense of human decency? Don't you see that if soma breaks up with her now, he's simply adding to her sense of loss?

Hopefully you will never know anyone who suffers a miscarriage (and suffer is the right term). It's a horrible, tragic thing. Soma needs to treat her as a friend and be there as needed. He does NOT need to put his penis anywhere near her, but he needs to be there emotionally for her. Even if he doesn't share her sense of loss, he's part of the cause of it. Decent people don't inflict intentional harm on others.

As we all know, Plan9 isn't human, let alone decent, so he shouldn't feel insulted.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cimarron29414

Okay, so it is clear we are suffering from a case of semantics.

First of all, I don't have a low opinion of Film studies majors. I said the degree is useless...does not have any value (read Return on Investment) in the real world. Yes, there are people with that degree who have leveraged it to its fullest and become very wealthy. Most who receive it, do not. OR, their success is completely detached from the actual degree itself. I believe that would bear out to be true, if I were inclined to do any research. Regardless, I stand by the statement. A fool is one who rings up massive student loan debt to get such a specialized degree, with very few jobs requiring it.

Second of all, breaking up romantically does not equal abandonment. You can state that this scare has made you see that the romantic part of your relationship needs to end because your value systems are not aligned...and you are now going to consider yourselves friends.

That declaration is FAR more upfront than stopping the romantic part, but not telling her about it - which seems to be your suggestion.

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Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

The_Jazz

You still don't get it - this isn't about being honest and upfront about their relationship. This is about intentionally inflicting emotional harm on someone who's recently suffered a loss. Let's say that her father, who for the sake of argument she was very close to, died suddenly last week. Does the decent human being who's no longer interested in a romantic relationship break up with her, pregnancy and miscarriage aside for the moment?

No, he doesn't.

Being honest and upfront about his intentions are only going to hurt her further at this point. This seems to me to be a white lie told with the best of intentions. Again, the Campsite Rule seems to be incredibly relevant here.

Edited to add - not that it's relevant, but it's glaringly obvious that you DO actually have a low opinion of Film Study majors. But that's ok, I do too. They're up there with Philosphy majors. They're not really prepared to do much in the real world, except, you know, communicate ideas. Which, it turns out, is a skill that translates to lots of fields. But you'd never think that a Russian History major would amount to much, yet here I am.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cimarron29414

I get it, I just disagree. There are ways to say it that define the transition and don't devastate.


When you say "majors", are you referring to the people who study Films in university? Again, I do not have a low opinion of those people. Pulled from

Film Studies Degree Programs | Online Schools & Colleges

"What Is the Estimated Salary for Film Studies Graduates?

Due to the large variation of career paths, students graduating with a film studies degree earn varying salaries. Leading directors, scriptwriters, actors and industry professionals often earn millions of dollars each year.

However, the majority of film studies graduates earn considerably less. The average film director earns approximately $35 per hour. The average film critic earns between $40,000 and $60,000 annually."

So, IF you become a film director (obviously, there are a huge number of these people), you make $70K. If you become a film critic (obviously there are a HUGE number of positions open here), you get to make 17% to 45% less than the average salary of all college graduates (which appears to be $72,000).

Still standing by my statement that going and getting $100K in student loans for that degree is completely bone-headed. Still sticking with giving those $100K of loans to baby daddy is morally bankrupt.

Russian History can be applied in a huge number of financial and political professional paths. It is far more relevant. Incidentally, do you use the "Russian History" part of your degree in your current occupation? I'm not picking a fight, I'm just curious.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

Plan9

"...treat her as a friend and be there as needed..." Did you steal that from the Wedding Crashers manual or something? You wanna know what helps? Honesty.

Sure, it's painful. Sure, it's bad timing. But how can you make it not painful to break up? And what would be good timing? Rip that band-aid off, baby.

Guess that makes me a monster, huh?

I'm so very tired of a world filled with good intentions and little white lies. You can't little-white-lie yourself outta this situation in good conscience. Well, unless you're a nutjob who enjoys the drama. This isn't about his long time girl gaining a few pounds or his unsatisfied desire to pound her ass, it's about a 20 year sentence and a ruined future.

I've made plenty of mistakes and told plenty of white lies and I always carried the rucksack of regret. I ditched that approach last year or so and it's been liberating.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

snowy

9er said more or less what I was thinking.

Breaking up sucks no matter what. Yeah, he could wait and try to be "the nice guy", but honestly, no matter what he does, he's never going to be "the nice guy" in her eyes again, once it's over and done with. Why put off the inevitable?

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Xazy

After a miscarriage there is something decent about waiting til she is emotionally well. It migt take a while yes, but that does not mean you should kick her while she is down, and maybe make her have a real meltdown.

And return on investment depends on the person, if your measure of success is all about money, and not satisfaction and joy in what you do. Some people do not want to be ultra wealthy but only care about enjoying their job and having a good life. Either way he did not break up with her before because of the major and her student loans.

I think as a decent person you should wait and who knows he may still feel for her and want to remain when the scare from the potential fatherhood fades, but to leave now would be cruel.

Plan9

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Cimarron29414

I have things that I LOVE to do, but make me little or no money. They are called hobbies.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

The_Jazz

I have used my Russian History degree exactly once in my 15 year career, and it was on such a crazy deal that I feel confident that it will never repeat itself.

That said, film studies majors do more than act or direct:

Film, Cinema and Video Major - Info, Careers, and Jobs

Since they're quoting the Bureau of Labor Statistics, I feel pretty confident in these numbers. You're assuming that she wouldn't make a living wage with this degree, which seems baseless to me.

Snowy, you "put off the inevitable" because it's the right thing to do. This is a woman who's suffered about a big a loss as one can have. Adding to it RIGHT NOW is simply being cruel. No one's asking him to stay with her - far from it. I'm just saying that the decent thing to do is to not add to her immediate misery. Think about it this way - if one of your unmarried friends got pregnant and then miscarried and then her boyfriend broke up with her within a couple of weeks, what would your opinion of the guy be? Honestly, if we reversed the roles and pretended that Soma's girlfriend was telling us the story, I think you'd have a very different reaction and advice.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cimarron29414

Jazz,

I'm fine with the numbers you gave. It certainly emphasizes the lack of potential in that field (when using student loans to get the degree.) My objection has never been to the degree she has chosen, but rather that she is incurring tremendous debt to get the degree which garners less potential income than other degrees. I view this as an irresponsible life decision. Coupled with the fact that she was going to inevitably abandon that degree before graduation and stick him with the loans (via a child support payment.)

All I can go on is what I know from soma, a cheating girlfriend who wants to keep a relationship anchor baby. I'm just not certain I can muster sympathy for her that her little plan didn't work out. If she wants to tell the story differently, the address is Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - Powered by vBulletin. ~shrug~

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."

soma

Ok wow, how did I let this slip. One of the earlier posts states that she cheated in me when she in fact has not.

My GF DIDN'T CHEAT ON ME
Sorry for the big red letters, but this fact is pretty critical to this thread. I didn't pay enough attention to the previous posts and should have cleared this up earlier. If this changes anyone's opinion, please repost.

Thanks

Edit, shit if she cheated on me, i would have kicked her to the curb without hesitation.

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Having Girl Problems?

Cimarron29414

Why, yes. That changes things, this knowledge has definitely upgraded her perceived character. However, she still is on a different page than you in major life decisions. That alone is enough to terminate the romantic portion of your relationship.

You need to EMBRACE the feeling you had when you found out she was pregnant and was going to KEEP the baby, regardless of the effects it would have on your lives. You need to be able to conjure that feeling at will...every time your willy starts wagging at this woman. She'll put you back in that place in a heartbeat.

Only a parent can truly know how your life was REALLY going to change because of that child. At this point, you can only imagine. It means 100 times more than you can even speculate.

Go find someone with the same current set of life goals. Last I counted, there's 3 billion women on the planet - many of whom would suit you.

__________________
Gives a man a halo, does mead.

"Here lies The_Jazz: Killed by an ambitious, sparkly, pink butterfly."