Willravel

I didn't say she should trust me. I have to go return some videotapes.

CinnamonGirl

Pretty much my philosophy. I don't think it's naive to trust someone. I'm not going to go snooping through their personal stuff, because 1) I'd be absolutely furious if someone did that to me, and 2) I'd feel...dirty.

Again, I say, if you don't trust each other, what's the point? No, the world's not perfect, and not everyone is trustworthy. But if I'm letting you into my life, and into my heart (yeah, I know, that's cheesy), I'm damn sure gonna trust you. Have I paid for that? You bet. But I'm not gonna get all sneaky and bitter because of it.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

biznatch

I suspected, asked, got a negative answer.
...
After that, of course I went through her phone. What I found, it completely annihilated me. I haven't been the same person since.

__________________
Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread

wooÐs

Maybe you got confused on what I was saying.

I was trying to show how my parents fell in love at a young age and remained together. Actually, it's the same with all their siblings as well. They all met young and stayed together. These sorts of relationships just don't happen anymore. And it's sad.
A lot of people say this. But I don't understand why. I'd honestly be flattered lol. It did happen once before and I thought it was adorable. I had nothing to hide of course. If I did, then I would definitely be furious.
As we all know, you take a chance on getting hurt when entering any sort of relationship. When tension's in the air with a significant other, a simple 'are you cheating on me' question will not always get an honest answer lol. Especially nowadays.

Not that I'm any different than anyone but I have been hurt very badly by men as well as women in my past. I choose to avoid having my heart ripped out again if at all possible - all while knowing that if I do start looking for trouble, there's a damn good chance I will indeed find it. I think it's a control thing. I must have the upper hand even when getting fucked over, if that makes sense.

My motto - expect the worst and hope for the best.

Daniel_

Can I just point out that my parents got together at 17, and after over 40 years together split up.

My Dad admitted that he'd suffered depression for at least 15 years, largely as a result of being in a loveless marriage and falling for another woman (but he did nothing about it).

It was only when he explained this to my mother (and the other woman) that everyone told him he was being an arse and should leave my mother.

Divorce and separation statistics clearly show that this is not a new phenomenon, and that relationships have always failed.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Xerxys

No really Daniel_ you are a clever man. And I'm not being sarcastic. I have never looked at divorce in a glass half full kind of way. Thankyou.

jewels

Perspective, baby. If our privacy wasn't respected, we're more likely to mistrust.

When I was much younger I was a snooper. People can grow and change also, depending on their experiences.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

Suzz04

right on the words with the question of are you cheating on me will get a honest answer. the relationship was going really well and suddenly it took a deep turn into silence and constant ignoring, chat messages closed when i walked in the room. so i asked that of him, got a no and he was enraged. i told that i was being possessive, etc.

it wasn't til then i went to snooping. yes, i felt dirty about it, but the hostility i got made it too hard to not look. however, i found the correct answer. he was and had plans of moving away from the area without saying another word with a old ex of his. confrontation with print outs of said emails and chat messages, the plan went out the window. i had hoped for the best, but expected the worst and found it.

the second time, again same one, i don't know why i bothered staying with him. he got to acting all suspicious again. we went from having a really good relationship again and then went into the same routine. i never asked this time. he had decided to hook up again with a different ex who was in a relationship herself, and she was too afraid to leave him and he was giving her time to before telling me he was gone.

so, sometimes, it pays to. and yes, we had each other's passwords to everything. i didn't do anything, i had nothing to hide. thus the openness of said information. why he didn't change the passwords after the first time i don't know, but i caught him in the act once again.

plus at the time this was going down prior to the breakup, we had mutually agreed to move to a place closer to his grandmother to help her more. i had already signed the lease and came back to a WTF did you sign it. i was completely confused and said you already put your signature on the papers before i even did mine.

so, my snooping came about to too much suspicion of actions and attitude. am i proud of myself? no. i sometimes wish i never did it. but the other times, i'm glad because i would have come home and he'd have packed up and left without me having a clue.

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

Iliftrocks

Yep, and snooping can be a hard habit to break...

__________________
bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

Jinn

Well I'm the kind of cat who is killed by curiosity. No matter whose email address and password I got, I'd go looking. And not for anything incriminating, dirty, infidelity, etc., just because I'm intensely curious about the mundane day-to-day details about people that goes on.. a kind of "vicarious living" if you will. I'd read their spam and their letters to grandma, and skip the dirty letters to the ex.

If I were specifically wondering about infidelity, I wouldn't go snooping in an email inbox to find out.

I'm the kind of person "life casting" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifecasting_(video_stream) is aimed at .. not so I can catch anything dirty, but so I can watch Random Joe walk around town, order Starbucks, tie his shoes... etc., etc.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Plan9

Snooping is a great way of playing the Untouchable Game:

Curiosity or not, snooping is violating the trust and privacy of your partner. You're going around them to find your own answers. Or "answers."

I figure If you don't have trust and privacy in a relationship... you don't have doodly squat. You gotta be "me and you, alright?" and roll with it.

All this "hit the silk" contingency plan shit only makes us into the dickhead that Henry Rollins was ranting about above.

...

Also: I've learned that the same people that snoop are the same people that don't want to go to marriage counseling.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

MSD

I won't carry on a serious relationship with someone I don't feel I can trust, and I have no problem being held to that same standard. If I snooped, how could someone trust me?
I have to disagree with you for two reasons.

First, my generation hasn't had time to prove that our relationships can last. I'm 25, but I have cousins who have been married for close to 10 years (in fact, one of my cousins met her husband at age 15 and dated through college) and are happy together, never fight, have two kids, and I would put $1000 down to say that they will still be together in 30 years.

Second, I think you're clinging to a romanticized Leave it to Beaver-style vision of how things were back then. Maybe people didn't divorce, but people turned a blind eye to depression-related alcohol abuse and men hitting their wives. No generation wants to admit it, but shit has been the same for a long time. Look back at the glory days of ancient Athens and you'll see infidelity, teen pregnancy, rampant drug and alcohol use, and all the stuff that people blame on those damn kids these days. Sure, there were waves of puritanism and conservative backlash movements, but not a lot has changed.

Plan9

Whiz-bang. +1.

And they didn't have skeezy Craigslist hookups. Main streamers were against divorce.

Now ya can get a divorce over the phone for $300 and nobody is shocked.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Flinx

Because nobody lives forever and having the pin's and passwords makes cleaning up after the funeral much much easier. I spent days cracking my brother's email password for my sister in law so that she could retrieve email address's of some of his friends and our relatives (ones I don't talk too, some I don't even admit they exist) to pass along the message of his passing on. There was a forum he was on quite a lot, some of the regulars knew of his condition and asked to be kept informed but it was a invite only forum and stupid me didn't think to have him invite me before it was too late (denial at its best I guess). I don't why but his (inset a LOT and I mean a lot of swearing here) bank wanted not only a marriage certificate and death certificate but his dam PIN code before they would let her access their joint account as it required both their signatures and she didn't have his pin code, more red tape and stress when really not needed.


Because it would be a betrayal of trust. My wife has all my codes/pins for emergency use, I trust her to use them in that way only, not to use them to spy on me. To spy on a person means you don't trust them and what kind of relationship can survive without trust?

MSD

One thing I missed, how could you be flattered that someone was snooping in your stuff? While there are ways to piss me off and get your calls and other messages ignored until I cool down, I discovered last that the only thing that can enrage me to the point that I will completely cut off contact with someone is unsubstantiated false accusations. I can take criticism, insults, and angry tirades, but falsely accusing me is an attack on my character and I will not tolerate it. This was at work, and I was not the primary contact person for the client organization, so it made it easy for me to mail back their $2000 check and refuse to accept their phone calls. They haven't been back since and I will not work with them if they do come back.

If you don't feel that my word is good enough, then you can find someone else who will put up with your suspicion. I will not willingly lie to someone I care about.

Meditrina

Not true in all cases. I was more than willing to go to counseling. HE refused.

__________________
"Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

wooÐs

Ugh . So sad.

I definitely don't know the specifics with your parents. But I'm sort of insinuating people just don't even try anymore. Divorce is more common than herpes and / or cold sores these days. But that's another thread altogether lol.
I'm sorry :/.

It sounds like in some twisted way, he wanted you to catch him. He obviously has issues. And what keeps me moving forward is never forgetting how shitty karma can be.
But most people here are talking about willingly exchanging passwords and such. Is it actually 'snooping' anymore when this is done between two people?
*loud buzzer*

You're way wrong there. At least in my case. I've always (I think,) been the one who wanted to work shit out. Even after catching them fucking me over with some other cu**, I never wanted to give up. I always throw myself into my relationships 364% without holding back. Walking away from them is extremely painful. As I was saying up above, it's like couples don't even try anymore. They just divorce without a second thought and bitch about it for the rest of their lives.

But don't get me wrong - I'm not saying divorce isn't always the wrong thing to do.
Makes complete sense. However I just have trust issues period, thanks to my choices in men and my overall luck in the past. But they don't keep me from getting involved again. I can indeed love yet still have reservations.
I almost used that same exact metaphor in one of my posts lol.

And you're right. This is how I was raised. Little girls are supposed to grow up, get married, have babies and live happily ever after. But it's not that way anymore. Men and women alike have all turned into lazy and selfish pigs. Marriage means nothing sacred anymore. If it ain't working, just divorce. It's just a sign of the times. Call me old fashioned if you will. I call it having morals.

It's almost like you're on both sides of the fence though. You talk about how you won't be with anyone unless you trust them. Yet 'Leave It To Beaver' is passe.
Giving your significant other (especially a woman,) passwords to your personal email accounts is like leaving an opened package of Oreos in front of a 5-year-old lol. They're going to indulge. Fact.

---------- Post added at 06:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:13 PM ----------

Man, this was a lot of quoting. I think I got everyone tho.

Plan9

Unfeminism'd! Sympathetic men are currently engaged in social reparations... to take care of crimes against women for the last million or so years.

I see it more like he's gonna trust someone but he's got realistic expectations about the modern relationship dynamic and roles of partners. I mean, he's not going to tell you to stop posting and get back in the kitchen to fetch him another beer. We're all equals now, right? For better or worse.

So women are incapable of restraint / self control? Pfft, I coulda told you that. I've seen the first season of Sex and the City.

Kidding, of course. Men and women are equally curious creatures. The biggest thing that separates us? Bullshit notions.

...

I wholeheartedly recommend divorce to anyone who's unhappy with their marriage.

I mean... it's so good for the economy.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

wooÐs

I'll never burn my bras.
They're too expensive and pretty.

lol

noodle

I'm calling bullshit and I actually agree with Crompmeister.
PEOPLE have issues with self-control. It's individual. Some do, some don't.
I don't have a problem with oreos or my ex's emails.
Blanket statements bother me.

__________________

wooÐs

What part?

lol

Plan9

So... how do you feel about mothering my legions?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

wooÐs

Can you hammer a 6" spike through a board with your penis?

Plan9

I... I have a smoothspot.

But you betcha. I can hip thrust a railroad spike through a Buick.

...

Hey, how about I give you the password to my Gmail and you figure out if I'm an asshole or not. That sounds like a good plan based on this thread.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

wooÐs

I'll take the password, sure. I'm sure someone on here would throw me a couple bucks for it or something.

But I've already concluded you're as harmless as bebeh kitty bear with some sort of loaded firearm .

Plan9

I assure you that my firearms are as empty as my head.

...

Enough bullshit, back on topic: I can understand the utility of having a partner's passwords if you're married and share important things such as bank accounts... but personal email and such? Total landmine. Let them have that space to themselves.

If you really wanna share emails... get a joint email account. It's safer that way. And so sickeningly cute. "Jan&Ted4eva@gmail.com."

Then again... sharing a joint bank account is considered a suicide attempt in some countries.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

jewels

As Noodle said, bullshit. Not even close to a fact. Insulting, as a matter of fact. And it's not June Cleaver. It's believing that two people can base a good relationship with a foundation of trust. Otherwise, that relationship is destined for doom.

It seems as though you're on both side of the fence. You think the sanctity of marriage should be upheld at nearly all costs, yet you think females are incapable of self-control, respect and trust?

Yeah. And all men cheat.

__________________
We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
Mark Twain

savmesom11

I'll be honest....Yes and it had NOTHING to do with trust. The time I am thinking about has to do with the TFP and trying to discover who my new boyfriend was.....he even warned me not to snoop because the content was very outdated and during another period of his life but I couldn't help myself. He was so interesting to me I really wanted to know more about him without asking and receiving the whole 'new relationship" censorship......I snooped and found. I didn't find out anything that was wrong/illegal/immoral....but it was still painful. I am hoping that this very important lesson was learned and will stick.

__________________
* I do not believe that struggles are a sign of life falling apart, but rather a step of life falling into place. *

Plan9

No, women do that, too. I blame the French. And my lack of genitalia.

Crompsin TFP Rule #4: Never mention TFP to a potential significant other. They'll see the "real you" and nobody likes that.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

LordEden

Statements like this kill me when I know I've never cheated (turned it down actually... while drunk) when every girl I've dated has cheated on me.

One even pulled the "I was in another country, you know how that goes" excuse.

Women aren't evil cheaters. Men aren't evil cheaters. PEOPLE are evil cheaters.

Human nature is ugly; unless you are on the giving side, you are on the receiving side.

__________________
Vice-President of the CinnamonGirl Fan Club - The Meat of the Zombiesquirrel and CinnamonGirl Sandwich

noodle

I love you jewels.

__________________

cadre

First of all, I don't think there's a 'these days' type of issue going on here. There have always been thing that people think of as private in relationships, snooping is no new concept. Your opinion that people don't try anymore is just that, your opinion. I tend to disagree.

Also, your last comment there about the oreos..yeah, that's definitely not a fact. Many people here have stated that they have no disire to snoop, are we to assume they lied?

In my relationships, I have never felt the need to snoop. I just don't feel like that is a way to accomplish anything. Right now, I pretty much have full access to all of my SO's important accounts and I have no desire to look at any of them. If I need to use his computer for something, or look for something in his email, I always ask as a courtesy and he does the same.

__________________
My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.

Suzz04

My question was direct and wasn't a honest answer unfortunately, neither was the second time around. I don't believe in cheating and honestly think it is the most disrespectful thing to someone.

I want to quote woods, but haven't a clue how to put it in. I may have been at the computers for 20 years but even I don't know alot of things.

I know this is going to sound vindictive but, shitty karma can come back on one. And I hope that it seriously does with him. I've found a new life. I began a new life. I didn't change myself completely but I came to alot of the problems I had with trust as well as made myself much less paranoid.

Also, I gave it my 150% to make it work, even after the first two incidents it was the last one of him taking off with my best friend that was the complete break down of my life to the point of seeking medical attention to survive.

I have a wonderful spiritual spouse. It's a piece of paper. It's not important to me. I have my daughter. And I have my peace of mind that I didn't have before. And he was actually met online in EverQuest 2 and he lived in Minnesota and moved to Virginia just for me. The memories of that first meeting still gives me the shivers down your spine that is of pure joy and happiness you knew you were to look for in the future.

I gotta stop rambling on posts LoL

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

CinnamonGirl

I have nothing to hide. Never have. But I respect people's privacy, and I expect the same in return. The thought that my significant other has to be somehow involved in EVERY SINGLE THING I do is baffling to me. I would not be flattered...I would be offended.



*shrug* I think this is the essential difference. While I've been very badly hurt as well, I don't feel the need to be in control. I don't want the upper hand... I just want equal ground.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

Crack

THIS is where I went wrong. 3 times.

__________________
Crack, you and I are long overdue for a vicious bout of mansex.

~Halx

Vigilante

Yeah, I don't talk about TFP with my wife. Ever. I love her to death, but she is not nearly as open minded as I am.

On the PW issue, I don't want to know, and when I do, I don't snoop anyways.

My wife, earlier in our relationship, had me tested by having a girl hit on me, dug through my wallet and checked my chat logs. After some mild confrontations and scandals (I was a wild child), I explained to her the premise behind depeche mode's policy of truth. If you won't like the outcome, don't ask the question. I've never cheated, but I told her if she keeps up the shenanigans, I'll leave eventually. It was that day that she said she would drop the paranoia and old scandals (like hanging out with a girl that hit on me once, etc) and our lives have been better for it, ever since.

__________________
We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
-Winston Churchill

wooÐs

Take a step back from teh screen and breathe!

I am female lol.

And I obviously haven't stated one sex is better than the other.
Approximately 50% of all marriages THESE DAYS end in divorce. If you need citing, please feel free to use Google for loads of various references. This is no opinion.

What, do you think it's because people are just meaner now or something? No.
You folks are misusing the word 'snoop.'

If partners willingly exchanged passwords, then it's not snooping. The op used the phrase 'if they would never find out.' Those of you who are getting your panties in a bunch over the word 'snoop' need to chill. No one here on the board has accused you of doing this. But I do absolutely believe that at some point and time, if a couple has openly exchanged this information, each individual has indeed logged on to the other's account. You even said you did.
You were just a 5-year-old with manners. You asked first lol.
Reading this was very familiar. This happened to me in 1995. The two of them were fucking around behind my back, calling ME crazy for questioning whether or not this was happening. They denied it every time for about 2-3 months. I went ape shit, struggling with 'hey, maybe I really am just paranoid,' until I walked in late one night and caught them on my brand new sectional.

I let him keep my sectional.

You have to keep reminding yourself that all the bad you do in life, you get in return threefold. And the same applies with all the good. I hope this gives you some peace / piece of mind.

Daniel_

That's the point. It's NOT sad. My father (who I care about deeply) was made miserable by doing "what he ought to".

Leaving my mother brought him peace, happiness and an end to depression - not because she was bad in any way (she was not) but because she wasn't RIGHT for him.

In a more intimately mobile society he had the option of moving on, which he felt he wasn't entitled to because of his generation's view that "once you say I DO you live with the consequences".

My mother now has a new BF, and no longer has to watch her partner be sick and miserable without knowing why.

My father now lives with his new GF, and enjoys the shared interests that he never could with my mother.

Breaking up was in the long run a good thing for them. As a chemistry graduate, I would liken the pain of separation to the activation energy of a chemical reaction, and the better life that they both have now as the product.

__________________

╔═════════════════════════════════════════╗
Overhead, the Albatross hangs motionless upon the air,
And deep beneath the rolling waves,
In labyrinths of Coral Caves,
The Echo of a distant time
Comes willowing across the sand;
And everthing is Green and Submarine
╚═════════════════════════════════════════╝

Suzz04

If you're not right for each other, meaning miserable, then it's time to rethink and see if it can be fixed with counseling or if it's time to go separate ways.

My parents have been together for 49 years (omg i didn't think about this til now), however they are complete opposites of each other. By this I mean, my father is laid back, has a sense of humor, and is generally a smartass and know prankster. I have no problems with him, I have gotten better relationship with him as I got older.

Now my mother? Good god don't tell a joke in her presence, she won't get it. Everything is serious even if it's some tiny issue. She comes across as a ..... well.... I'd call her a bitch at times but since we have cleared up a few mental issues she's gotten a bit better. But the sense of humor is still a bit lacking. How the hell they survived these years I'll never know. I know they've been with each other with the good and bad .... lots of bad actually. Taken care of the other when the other was "down".

PS woodS I forgot to mention..... she had left her husband and was staying with me when it started.... Got a S/O in the house? I wouldn't recommend letting your best friend or such to stay longer than a couple of days. Maybe not at all.

__________________
Quantum Cat Theory:
Upon hearing the sound of a can being opened,
it becomes possible for a cat to travel faster than the speed of light.

Lucifer

uhmmmm...this is the real me.....sorry.

__________________
I am a brother to dragons, and a companion to owls.
- Job 30:29

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