I'm 23 and never had a girlfriend =( - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Mirth · 08-03-2008, 08:40 PM

Hello everyone. Couldn't think of a fitting title, but this thread is about my current life/female dilemma.

I'm 23 years old and have never had a girlfriend (Okay, I did in 8th grade, a girl asked me out and she dumped me the next day; I think it was a joke/dare). In middle school, I was a pretty popular guy, but in High school, I just stopped talking to pretty much everybody; I suppose it was because I started looking at myself as I "thought" others saw me, and I guess that's how I felt, and how I still feel to this day, leading me to a shyness that has taken over my life.

The negatives, oh the negatives. I don't really feel that great about my physical attributes. I'm 5'5 and although "I" don't mind being short, I feel that guys who are average height or greater just have a better chance of getting girlfriends, and when I see what women post about their ideal guy on myspace or message boards and things like that, they prefer guys taller than me, so I have this mindset that it's confirmed that my chances are slimmer. It's not just the height though; I know for a fact that I don't have an attractive face. On top of that, I have very "boyish" features: I don't have hair on my chest, I can't grow a beard -- just stupid pubes on my chin -- and I'm ALWAYS mistaken for being 16 years old. 9.5 out of 10 people would not guess I'm a day over 20. With that being said, how can I approach a girl and let her know right off the bat that I'm not some High-School Freshman hitting on her?

A little bit of a side note of me actually trying to change and getting my ass handed to me: I was living on my own in a different town, but when I visited my hometown I was introduced to my brother's girlfriend's step-sister. Didn't think much of her at the time, until we hung out a few times, and my brother texted me saying that "she likes you". I said, "cool". When I visited my hometown, I hung out with her a few times, and I started to like her. I wasn't doing great in the college I was going to, was barely making the rent, and I'll be honest, was very interested in her enough to move back home, where I can continue college at a better place and possibly date her. I went out mini-golfing with her one night, and she seemed really weird about it. Later my brother texted me asking if it was a date or friendship and I jokingly said, "either is fine with me ; )" because really -- I don't know anything about dating or how to initiate one so I was lost -- and he told me that he'd "hate to break the news, but she just wants to be friends. She was talking to her sister about telling you that tonight, but she just couldn't do it" So it was kinda my first major pain in my heart, and without thinking, I private messaged her on myspace telling her how I felt about her, and asked her if there was ever a time that she liked me. She replied and said it's not my fault (God only knows what that means...), and didn't really answer the question about her ever liking me. It just hurt(s) so badly that I don't know if I want to feel that way again, but I know if I ever want a girlfriend I have to take that risk.

The positives... Well, I'm doing really good in school, I have wonderful and caring parents, I'm not in debt like most college students and am really good with handling my money, I'm joined a band a month ago, and I have a good part-time job working for my parents. Even though I have all of that, I just feel that I'm missing a huge chunk of part of my life; a girl. I feel like, I don't know, it's starting to get too late for me when it comes to a girlfriend; I've never kissed a girl, don't know what breasts feel like, and I'm still a virgin of course. I don't know how I'm going to tell her that she's my first girlfriend, let alone the other stuff. I feel like a 40 year old guy who wants to start a career in the NFL or something; it's just too late...

On top of that, I really don't have any social outlets. I don't life the bar scene because I very rarely drink and I don't want to end up with a girl who's a regular customer at the bar. My job consists of fixing cars for all the old people in this old people town; rarely does anyone under 30 come to our car shop to get work done. And out of the University and Community college I go to, the major I'm in at the Uni is like, 100% male students, and the community college I have 1 class per semester usually, and last semester the girl I was really interested in... I couldn't even talk to her without shying up too much. =\

So anyways, I really don't know what to do. I'm back in this small, lifeless, geriatric town that has no entertainment and ALL of my friends have moved, so I don't even have them for comfort anymore. I want a wife and kid(s) someday, but at the current rate I'm going, I'm terrified to think that it may never happen for me... I don't know how to start pretending to feel good about my looks. I don't know how to stop being shy when I care too much about how others perceive me and don't want to say anything stupid. I don't know how to get people to stop thinking I'm 16 without me telling them. People have told me in the past, "Just talk to any random girl and blah-blah-blah", but I just don't have it in me to make that drastic of a change; there's got to be some sort baby-steps that will help me change, but I don't know what they can be.

Thanks for reading, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Raptor20561 · 08-03-2008, 09:23 PM

"I private messaged her on myspace telling her how I felt about her, and asked her if there was ever a time that she liked me"

no no NO! Don't ever do that. Screw her she lost her chance with YOU and thats the mentality you have to have. Try going to the gym and working out or running, it's not just to look better but to feel better about how you look. You say you don't have an attractive face? fuck that i've seen ugly ass mother fuckers get hot chicks. Girl don't care about how you look they can pick up on how confident you are and you HAVE to be and act confident. You're what girls are going after and that's how you have to act. It's hard to do at first (especially if you're not a drinker... acting like a cocky, confident asshole is easy when you're drunk) but you have to practice it on girls. Don't be afraid of rejection... you'll never get better at talking with girls if you don't get rejected left and right. I got over rejection but it took a while. Let's say im at the school library and talk to a few girls. Who gives a fuck if I'm "rejected" it's THEIR loss, got it? The more girls you talk to the more chances are you'll meet a girl who connects with you. About all I have to say about that...

go buy and read The Game by Neil Strauss. its a good read and will teach you about the pick up artist. sounds cheesy but it actually works most of the time. check this out too

Mystery Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

read all about that shit online there are a lot of websites for it. if you have any other questions send me a pm

CandleInTheDark · 08-03-2008, 09:25 PM

Try this...can you walk down the street and look people in the eye without being the first to break contact?

Your issue is confidence (duh), not your clothes, height, looks, lack of hair in manly places, or how many women you are actually surrounded by. You got rejected once and ran back to your little shell. If that is going to be your attitude and response to rejection, you might as well accept your fate right now. If you were the most outgoing and attractive man trying to pick-up women, you would still face rejection 90% of the time. Of that 10% you score a number from, 90% will be fakes. If you can handle the fact that 99% of the women you try to pursue aren't buying your shit, you are out of the game.

You have to be unafraid to throw yourself to the wolves. You have to put yourself in the position to talk to strange women. You have to face rejection time and again. Otherwise you will never realize that rejection is all bark, no bite.

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

-Michael Jordan

Raptor20561 · 08-03-2008, 09:39 PM

btw i was reading the wiki link i posted

dont ever use the line "If I weren't gay, you'd so be mine."

But definitely get the book and read about the pick up artist. it'll boost your confidence cuz you'll have a better understanding of women

Jetée · 08-03-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CandleInTheDark

Try this...can you walk down the street and look people in the eye without being the first to break contact?

Your issue is confidence (duh), not your clothes, height, looks, lack of hair in manly places, or how many women you are actually surrounded by. You got rejected once and ran back to your little shell. If that is going to be your attitude and response to rejection, you might as well accept your fate right now. If you were the most outgoing and attractive man trying to pick-up women, you would still face rejection 90% of the time. Of that 10% you score a number from, 90% will be fakes. If you can handle the fact that 99% of the women you try to pursue aren't buying your shit, you are out of the game.

You have to be unafraid to throw yourself to the wolves. You have to put yourself in the position to talk to strange women. You have to face rejection time and again. Otherwise you will never realize that rejection is all bark, no bite.

I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed.

-Michael Jordan

I just truly wanted to overemphasize this post because it allows me to simply state this: you may need to realize the main issue that you need to overcome is your low confidence, and in tandem, your apparent lack of initiative.

Words to take to heart:
If you don't try for fear of failure, you have already lost.

genuinegirly · 08-03-2008, 09:57 PM

I dated a guy once who was 5'5". Most delightful kissing someone my height. He ended up breaking it off with me. He is now married with a kid. I think you stand a pretty good chance of faring similarly. Heck, you might do better - he had a speech impediment to go along with the height thing. The big difference between him and you? He had confidence.

Honestly, work on the confidence. Do this by finding opportunities to spend time with the few non-geriatric in your immediate vicinity. You can spend time with the geriatric as well, in fact, volunteering does wonders for personal well-being. Still, you are going to need to be comfortable speaking with peers. Get a job at a coffee shop on the weekends and start TALKING to people. Learn the basics of striking up a conversation. Become comfortable giving compliments.

You're going to do fine. You've taken the first step. One foot in front of the other until you reach it. Rests are fine. Backtracking happens. Just don't stop.

MSD · 08-04-2008, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor20561

go buy and read The Game by Neil Strauss. its a good read and will teach you about the pick up artist. sounds cheesy but it actually works most of the time. check this out too

Pickup Artists (or guys who read The Game and think they are one) get girls, not girlfriends. I also haven't met a single one who went more than five minutes without giving me an intense urge to cock punch him. If you get something out of those books, let it be boosted confidence, not some formulaic system you're supposed to follow and keep score of. A relationship is not a zero-sum game, and cynical outlooks like the PuA approach and ladder theory try to rationalize away the irrational nature of human attraction and blaming it on unrelated variables.

Burgerflipp · 08-04-2008, 06:21 AM

Don't get too down' mate.Things could be worse;you could be in your 30's and never had a girlfriend.Please
don't let things get that far.Please do something before it's too late.

You're young...things are still salvageable.

Good luck to you.

thespian86 · 08-04-2008, 07:08 AM

i'll say and say again: confidence is your best friend in everything in life; ESPECIALLY when it comes to women. No one likes someone who doesn't like themselves. Do whatever it takes for you to get that. You need that.

For women, love yourself too; men like confident women too.

Lasereth · 08-04-2008, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor20561

You say you don't have an attractive face? fuck that i've seen ugly ass mother fuckers get hot chicks.

Some of the best advice in the thread.

If you're not toned or strong, start going to a gym. It will build your self confidence up even though I think your self confidence isn't as bad as you say it is.

BTW it doesn't matter at all that you're 23 and has never had a girlfriend or had sex. If anyone tells you otherwise they're BSing you.

777 · 08-04-2008, 07:41 AM

For men, looks don't matter. Listen to this. At this electronics store I worked at, there's this short, over weight guy there. And the girls that shop at his section are flirting with him within seconds of meeting the guy! He's caring, compasionate, witty, and confident. Not at only that, but at the art department at his college, he's in charge of recruiting new models. And he's a little pudgy guy! So looks don't matter. It's all about how you feel about yourself, because others will feel that way too.

snowy · 08-04-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

Pickup Artists (or guys who read The Game and think they are one) get girls, not girlfriends. I also haven't met a single one who went more than five minutes without giving me an intense urge to cock punch him. If you get something out of those books, let it be boosted confidence, not some formulaic system you're supposed to follow and keep score of. A relationship is not a zero-sum game, and cynical outlooks like the PuA approach and ladder theory try to rationalize away the irrational nature of human attraction and blaming it on unrelated variables.

Thank you, MSD, for saying this. Mirth, if you go out and buy one of those books, you won't end up with what you're looking for.

I firmly believe the key to getting a girlfriend/boyfriend/whatever is quite simple: Focus on improving yourself first, and doing what you love to do--whatever that is. Don't actively go looking for a relationship, except in passive ways, like going out with friends, going to events, getting out in the community. Instead of thinking it like "I'm too old, I need a girlfriend NOW", think about it like "I'd like to meet some new people." Not just girls, people. Getting out in the community beyond school and work is key--though getting out in your school community can be great too. Does your college offer social dancing classes? Do you belong to any student organizations? Do you do any volunteer work? Are there intramural sports teams? In your community beyond school, are there sports leagues through parks and rec? Even if you're not athletic, joining a sports team will introduce you to a lot of people (I'm not at all athletic, but I play ultimate frisbee, for example). A huge part of eventually getting into a relationship is just getting out there and making lots of connections first--plus, you never know when one connection will lead to another (that's how I met my guy).

And don't worry about the lack of experience--there are a lot of guys out there in the same exact boat. Heck, I can think of at least three guys amongst those in my acquaintance who are OLDER than you but in the same boat. Guess what--we all get that first person to love eventually. Be patient, lest your impatience come off as desperation--which girls can smell a mile away.

Mirth · 08-04-2008, 08:33 AM

Thank you everyone for reading my long post. I've read all of your replies so far.

I've been contemplating on going to the gym, but I feel that I'm usually too exhausted after work -- which is very labor intensive -- and just like to relax or chill at my brother's house after work. Maybe I will rethink that and give it a shot.

But yes, confidence is my biggest weakness, but in a way it's not. I'm the type of person that once I open up, I'm very funny, caring, and would give the shirt off of my back to help my friends or family. So, I guess I really have to work on opening up to women, and people in general, promptly.

With that said, I know of the option to take the cocky/dickhead route towards women, but, I'm not sure that's for me because I want a woman to want me for my niceness and caring personality, not a woman who wants me because I was a dickhead to her for a few minutes and then gets bored of me quickly afterwards. But then again, "nice guys finish last", right? So, I'm a little bit confused how to act towards women, aside from acting confident.

snowy · 08-04-2008, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

Thank you everyone for reading my long post. I've read all of your replies so far.

I've been contemplating on going to the gym, but I feel that I'm usually too exhausted after work -- which is very labor intensive -- and just like to relax or chill at my brother's house after work. Maybe I will rethink that and give it a shot.

But yes, confidence is my biggest weakness, but in a way it's not. I'm the type of person that once I open up, I'm very funny, caring, and would give the shirt off of my back to help my friends or family. So, I guess I really have to work on opening up to women, and people in general, promptly.

With that said, I know of the option to take the cocky/dickhead route towards women, but, I'm not sure that's for me because I want a woman to want me for my niceness and caring personality, not a woman who wants me because I was a dickhead to her for a few minutes and then gets bored of me quickly afterwards. But then again, "nice guys finish last", right? So, I'm a little bit confused how to act towards women, aside from acting confident.

Like I said, get out and meet people in general, become friends with a few women, and you'll learn a lot from that experience--plus it never hurts to have a good friend who's a girl helping you out.

And no, nice guys don't finish last. Nice guys get nice girls. My guy's a nice guy

But you don't get nice girls if you avoid putting yourself out there. A girl isn't just going to plop into your lap.

Mirth · 08-04-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Getting out in the community beyond school and work is key--though getting out in your school community can be great too. Does your college offer social dancing classes? Do you belong to any student organizations? Do you do any volunteer work? Are there intramural sports teams? In your community beyond school, are there sports leagues through parks and rec? Even if you're not athletic, joining a sports team will introduce you to a lot of people (I'm not at all athletic, but I play ultimate frisbee, for example). A huge part of eventually getting into a relationship is just getting out there and making lots of connections first--plus, you never know when one connection will lead to another (that's how I met my guy).

I've looked on Craigslist and in the newspaper for community activities that interest me, but this being a town with very few young people, there's not that many to choose from.
I get event activity notices in my University e-mail, but all of the events are at the main campus, which is 2 hours away. =(

I did start playing tennis and racquetball right before I moved back to my hometown, and I thought about continuing that here. I've looked for racquetball courts in town and online, but the only one they had is closed down. There are a few tennis courts downtown, but I don't know how to actually approach people to ask them to play, as they usually bring another person, so 3 person game would be uneven, and know most people would rather stick to their routine tennis playing and not want to break that and invite me to playing with them... =\

Other than that, I really don't know where else to go to try to make friends in town. There are a lot of parties where people my age, males and females, drink and smoke weed all night, but I'm just not that type of person and not interested in being with that type of person. So yeah, I really don't know where to go out and meet people.

soma · 08-04-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punkmusicfan21

i'll say and say again: confidence is your best friend in everything in life; ESPECIALLY when it comes to women. No one likes someone who doesn't like themselves. Do whatever it takes for you to get that. You need that.

For women, love yourself too; men like confident women too.

cosign. It still super cliche, but sooo true.

dirtyrascal7 · 08-04-2008, 09:06 AM

Honestly, we could sit here and give you all the advice you could ever absorb, but what you really need is to simply go out and practice (and be yourself). Yes, it will feel awkward at first and you might get your heart broken, but everyone goes through that... it's just part of the process.

Make a goal to introduce yourself to one new girl each day. You don't need any special line or plan... just smile, say "hi", and go from there. Don't feel you need to only pick girls who you would date, either... it's probably a better idea to start out with girls who you don't find intimidating, anyway. Just make sure you stick with it and pretty soon it will get easier and easier.

CandleInTheDark · 08-04-2008, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

Pickup Artists (or guys who read The Game and think they are one) get girls, not girlfriends.

True. However you can't get a girlfriend if you can't get a girl. Getting a girlfriend is not a good goal. Being able to talk to anyone with confidence is a better one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

But yes, confidence is my biggest weakness, but in a way it's not.

No, it is. You don't need to share your life story immediately, but if you can't hold a simple conversation with a new woman, you are really going to limit the amount of women you can meet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

I know of the option to take the cocky/dickhead route towards women, but, I'm not sure that's for me because I want a woman to want me for my niceness and caring personality, not a woman who wants me because I was a dickhead to her for a few minutes and then gets bored of me quickly afterwards. But then again, "nice guys finish last", right?

The dickhead/cocky approach was developed because it is much easier for working up your confidence and getting used to rejection. The basic point of that approach is this: you do not need a woman to make you happy, you do not need a woman to make decisions for you. I am going to generalize about women now (something TFP hates). Women want to be lead. They do not want a man who supplicates to them. Being able to do this while still being respectful and kind is a balancing act that is hard for someone just coming out of his shell.

MSD · 08-04-2008, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

Thank you, MSD, for saying this. Mirth, if you go out and buy one of those books, you won't end up with what you're looking for.

I was being diplomatic by sayin git as nicely as I did. I'm glad someone agrees with me

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

But then again, "nice guys finish last", right? So, I'm a little bit confused how to act towards women, aside from acting confident.

"Nice Guys" finish last because they've convinced themselves that being nice is the only thing that should matter and spend no time developing other redeeming qualities; this leads to them being whiny, depressed, and antisocial because they still can't get a girl or keep her interested. Don't think of yourself as a nice guy, and definitely don't advertise it, because if you're a good person, your personality will show through no matter what you're doing. Trust me on this, I used to be a "nice guy" and it got me nowhere in life.

We're going to try a little exercise for you; I want you to read this, say an answer to the question out loud within 5 seconds, and post whatever it was that you said. I put it in a spoiler tag because I don't want you to read it ahead of time and have time to think. If you blank out or can't think of anything, don't be afraid to say so.

Spoiler: I'm being wingman for you at a bar, or party, or wherever we are trying to meet people. I see a girl I know from somewhere, introduce you to her, and she asks you, "Why did MSD tell me I should get to know you?"

Poppinjay · 08-04-2008, 09:36 AM

Try placing and ad on CL instead of just looking. Many more people surf it than place ads.

In other words, like most people here have said, be pro-active.

ironman · 08-04-2008, 10:12 AM

When I was starting law school I used to work with this guy that would come every monday with a different story of how he had scored a girl and take her home. He was very good looking, and always th
ought that was the reason he scored so much so often, that I thought 'till the first time I ever hang out with him a saturday night. The guy was on fire, he would talk and joke with every woman at the bar, it didn't matter whether they were beautiful or bat-ugly (ugly girls do have beautiful friends he used to say) and surprisingly (at least for me at the time) he got rejected time after time after time, even by girls that were ugly by the kindest standards, but it didn't matter to him, he was on a mission and he wouldn't quit till he got what he was after, and he did.
Later he explained me that every Monday he would told us about that one girl out of hundred that had accepted him, but never told us about all the rejection. That night changed my mind for ever, once you accept that you'll be rejected, no matter who you are are who you think you are, then you are ready to score big with women.

thespian86 · 08-04-2008, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman

When I was starting law school I used to work with this guy that would come every monday with a different story of how he had scored a girl and take her home. He was very good looking, and always th
ought that was the reason he scored so much so often, that I thought 'till the first time I ever hang out with him a saturday night. The guy was on fire, he would talk and joke with every woman at the bar, it didn't matter whether they were beautiful or bat-ugly (ugly girls do have beautiful friends he used to say) and surprisingly (at least for me at the time) he got rejected time after time after time, even by girls that were ugly by the kindest standards, but it didn't matter to him, he was on a mission and he wouldn't quit till he got what he was after, and he did.
Later he explained me that every Monday he would told us about that one girl out of hundred that had accepted him, but never told us about all the rejection. That night changed my mind for ever, once you accept that you'll be rejected, no matter who you are are who you think you are, then you are ready to score big with women.

Again, with the clichés but that is life in a nutshell.

It seems to me Mirth that you just aren't living life, and since you're not, you're doing what seems natural; basing what your life should be on what others do and have. But with others you get those half truths; you end up thinking ridiculous things like "nice guys finish last" and believing it (totally untrue; girls who are douches are the ones who like douches).

Life is always going to kick you dude, nothing just happens, and if it does then it's a blessing, not an everyday occurrence. I get women; amazing women. I date way out of my "league" because I realize there is no league; just people.

My whole life has been me getting kicked until I can stand up and get what I want; everyone's life is that. Just get up and get what you want man.

Mirth · 08-04-2008, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirtyrascal7

Make a goal to introduce yourself to one new girl each day. You don't need any special line or plan... just smile, say "hi", and go from there.

That goal would be extremely, extremely difficult as go straight to work at 9AM to 6PM where I don't see a female that is under 45 about 97% of the time, and go home straight after to do homework.

But, I can try to make a goal to do it once or twice a week, or on special occasions. For example, I have to go to the main college campus to take both of my finals Wednesday, so I have the opportunity then. And a concert on Friday, I can try.

I just gotta get it out of my head not to think that saying "hi" to a random girl isn't creepy and weird, haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSD

We're going to try a little exercise for you; I want you to read this, say an answer to the question out loud within 5 seconds, and post whatever it was that you said. I put it in a spoiler tag because I don't want you to read it ahead of time and have time to think. If you blank out or can't think of anything, don't be afraid to say so.

Spoiler: I'm being wingman for you at a bar, or party, or wherever we are trying to meet people. I see a girl I know from somewhere, introduce you to her, and she asks you, "Why did MSD tell me I should get to know you?"

The first thing that came to my mind was, "Cause I'm awesome". From what I've told you about me, that probably doesn't sound like something I'd say, but in reality I would, because other than my girl problems I really like who I am and where I'm at in life. It's just "love" that is a huge part of my life that I feel I'm missing out on. And also, I'd say that because you were there, of course. By that I mean, when I used to hang with my friends and they introduced me to their female friends, I would introduce myself and say something funny (or weird, in their eyes) and I wouldn't care because I knew that if she didn't like it, my friend(s) would laugh because I know his sense of humor. But I don't have any friends here, so I never really thought I could do that going solo.

Anywho, thank you all for the replies, some very powerful stuff in there. As said in another post, sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in this situation, but I guess I'm not and other people have succeeded, so maybe it's my turn to be one of them too.

genuinegirly · 08-04-2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

...but I don't know how to actually approach people to ask them to play, as they usually bring another person, so 3 person game would be uneven, and know most people would rather stick to their routine tennis playing and not want to break that and invite me to playing with them... =

This is a defeatist mentality. Just thought it'd be healthy to point out.

Some people play a sport to spend time with friends and meet people, don't get caught up on the logistics of a game. If they bring a friend, that makes it more of a social event.

Try your hand at spinning social scenarios into a positive light.

Bear Cub · 08-04-2008, 03:54 PM

Don't limit yourself to college activities.

You want to exercise, and you need to find places that women flock.

Put 2+2 together. Yoga/pilates classes, spinning classes, etc.

abaya · 08-05-2008, 01:51 AM

My husband was in your exact position at age 23, though he was in grad school (studying abroad in the US, since he was from another counrtry). He actually used to despair that he would be a virgin for the rest of his life, if that sounds familiar to you.

But that year, he decided to take initiative with a lot of things in his life--he took a vacation in Iceland (something that eventually became very important in our relationship), he started doing kick-boxing classes (not the lame aerobics kind, but the real thing), he took salsa lessons, he went to parties (not pot-smoking ones, but parties where all the fun international students went--and I went, too), he went to the gym and worked out--and I started noticing all this, because he was doing a lot of these activities with my roommates at the time, and he got my attention. We started chatting on MSN all the time, in between seeing each other with our friends during social events, and I really liked what I saw in him.

After a couple of months, I figured out that he liked me, and soon he told me how he felt (though he was quite shy and had to get a bit drunk to tell me, hehe). That was on his 24th birthday. We've been together ever since, 4.5 years now and married for almost 2. I'm writing to tell you that things really can happen this way. It's not rocket science. Being nice and caring is great and all, but it's not enough. You have to get the girl's attention somehow, and be an intriguing person in your own right, who has the boldness to straight up ask a woman on a date, and be able to handle whatever she says back to you. Over and over and over again. Try and get yourself to that point, in whatever way it takes.

Iliftrocks · 08-05-2008, 05:08 AM

Whatever you do, don't get into a desperate mindset. There are people who can sense it, and will use the crap out of you, if they get their hooks into you. You might get sympathy from a kind woman, but she will never respect you.

You don't have to be a dickhead to be confident. A little self-deprecating humour can be good. Joke a little about your foibles. Also, you really can't go wrong with "Because I'm awesome" with a little bit of a laugh. It shows you think well of yourself, but you know you are not a god.

Also, don't run out to the bars or social events with an end-game in mind. Don't marry every woman you meet and like (in your head). You will devastate yourself that way. Finding out that someone you like, doesn't want a relationship with you, shouldn't be the end of the world. Female friends can be good sounding boards about what might make you marketable, right? So do not alienate the ones that get away.....

MSD · 08-05-2008, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

The first thing that came to my mind was, "Cause I'm awesome". From what I've told you about me, that probably doesn't sound like something I'd say, but in reality I would, because other than my girl problems I really like who I am and where I'm at in life. It's just "love" that is a huge part of my life that I feel I'm missing out on. And also, I'd say that because you were there, of course. By that I mean, when I used to hang with my friends and they introduced me to their female friends, I would introduce myself and say something funny (or weird, in their eyes) and I wouldn't care because I knew that if she didn't like it, my friend(s) would laugh because I know his sense of humor. But I don't have any friends here, so I never really thought I could do that going solo.

OK, if you don't have friends to introduce you to people, you're going to get more of a "tell me about yourself" question, but it's the same basic idea. You have to understand what makes you attractive to others, and figure out how to show other people those aspects without coming across as desperate or arrogant. You seem to have the mental part half done, just convince yourself to get out there and break the shyness. There's a lot of good advice in this thread.

Poppinjay · 08-05-2008, 06:04 AM

This thread and the random girl in a mall thread reminded me of a kid I knew in high school. Greg was born with spina bifida, came from a poor, dysfunctional home, was wheelchair bound and had underdeveloped legs. A group of us happened to run (roll) into each other at the local mall, including a girl named Terri. As we were all talking about whatever - probably Oingo Boingo or WHAM! (who knew?) - this guy, who has every reason to be shy, unsure, insecure, looked up at Terri and said in a casualness matched only by Roger Moore as James Bond, "so when're we going out?"

Not only was Terri not repelled, she was flustered and giggled.

So, c'mon. If that guy could pull it off while still in high school, you should have no problem.

dirtyrascal7 · 08-05-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mirth

That goal would be extremely, extremely difficult as go straight to work at 9AM to 6PM where I don't see a female that is under 45 about 97% of the time, and go home straight after to do homework.

But, I can try to make a goal to do it once or twice a week, or on special occasions. For example, I have to go to the main college campus to take both of my finals Wednesday, so I have the opportunity then. And a concert on Friday, I can try.

I just gotta get it out of my head not to think that saying "hi" to a random girl isn't creepy and weird, haha.

Wait a minute... you claim that your schedule is too demanding to do this daily task. Already you seem to be making excuses why you can't do this... which says to me that you tend to over-think things and talk yourself out of them. You need to just do it... not "try".

Say the girl of your dreams came up to you tomorrow and wanted to be your girlfriend. Would you take time out of your daily life to be with her and keep her happy? Of course you would. You see, we always make time for the things we want to do. And while this task itself will probably won't get you a girlfriend, but it will help prepare you for that moment when you see a girl you really want to ask out... which is the whole point of doing this in the first place.

Luck is when opportunity meets preparation.

Mirth · 08-05-2008, 02:34 PM

I read the rest of the replies, thanks for the good advice and to the people who had stories of people in a similar situation, it is very inspiring that I may have a chance.

Anywho, I think I tried a little bit today; at least moreso than I normally would.

I went up to the main college today to take two finals -- which is I just go into the testing center at any time to take, one at a time -- and the girl at the reception desk (maybe in her late 20's) asked for my ID, class, and things, and I actually made a few witty remarks. I can't remember what exactly I said, but she stopped acting as serious as she first did and started to make witty-replies back and had a big smile!

I came back and said, "Whew, made it out alive!", and she was like, "Most people never make it out!" and laughed, and I told her I had another test to take for another course, so she got out the papers and said I could use notes on it. I didn't know I could use notes... "Notes?" I said. "I'm just gonna wing-it!", and she laughed and wished me good luck.

Corny as that may seem, I think it's a good start for me, when I would have normally just not said anything to her in the first place. But, when I was doing all of this, I felt really good about myself; I didn't even think about my looks or anything, I was like, "Just be Mirth..."

Oh yeah, and then I got a traffic ticket for not completely stopping at a red light (As posted in general discussion). Kinda killed my buzz!!!

So, I'm very busy this week, but next week or this weekend, I'm going to see how costly the gym is and not only build up some tone, but some confidence too!

08-03-2008, 08:40 PM	#1 (permalink)
Mirth Tilted	I'm 23 and never had a girlfriend =( Hello everyone. Couldn't think of a fitting title, but this thread is about my current life/female dilemma. I'm 23 years old and have never had a girlfriend (Okay, I did in 8th grade, a girl asked me out and she dumped me the next day; I think it was a joke/dare). In middle school, I was a pretty popular guy, but in High school, I just stopped talking to pretty much everybody; I suppose it was because I started looking at myself as I "thought" others saw me, and I guess that's how I felt, and how I still feel to this day, leading me to a shyness that has taken over my life. The negatives, oh the negatives. I don't really feel that great about my physical attributes. I'm 5'5 and although "I" don't mind being short, I feel that guys who are average height or greater just have a better chance of getting girlfriends, and when I see what women post about their ideal guy on myspace or message boards and things like that, they prefer guys taller than me, so I have this mindset that it's confirmed that my chances are slimmer. It's not just the height though; I know for a fact that I don't have an attractive face. On top of that, I have very "boyish" features: I don't have hair on my chest, I can't grow a beard -- just stupid pubes on my chin -- and I'm ALWAYS mistaken for being 16 years old. 9.5 out of 10 people would not guess I'm a day over 20. With that being said, how can I approach a girl and let her know right off the bat that I'm not some High-School Freshman hitting on her? A little bit of a side note of me actually trying to change and getting my ass handed to me: I was living on my own in a different town, but when I visited my hometown I was introduced to my brother's girlfriend's step-sister. Didn't think much of her at the time, until we hung out a few times, and my brother texted me saying that "she likes you". I said, "cool". When I visited my hometown, I hung out with her a few times, and I started to like her. I wasn't doing great in the college I was going to, was barely making the rent, and I'll be honest, was very interested in her enough to move back home, where I can continue college at a better place and possibly date her. I went out mini-golfing with her one night, and she seemed really weird about it. Later my brother texted me asking if it was a date or friendship and I jokingly said, "either is fine with me ; )" because really -- I don't know anything about dating or how to initiate one so I was lost -- and he told me that he'd "hate to break the news, but she just wants to be friends. She was talking to her sister about telling you that tonight, but she just couldn't do it" So it was kinda my first major pain in my heart, and without thinking, I private messaged her on myspace telling her how I felt about her, and asked her if there was ever a time that she liked me. She replied and said it's not my fault (God only knows what that means...), and didn't really answer the question about her ever liking me. It just hurt(s) so badly that I don't know if I want to feel that way again, but I know if I ever want a girlfriend I have to take that risk. The positives... Well, I'm doing really good in school, I have wonderful and caring parents, I'm not in debt like most college students and am really good with handling my money, I'm joined a band a month ago, and I have a good part-time job working for my parents. Even though I have all of that, I just feel that I'm missing a huge chunk of part of my life; a girl. I feel like, I don't know, it's starting to get too late for me when it comes to a girlfriend; I've never kissed a girl, don't know what breasts feel like, and I'm still a virgin of course. I don't know how I'm going to tell her that she's my first girlfriend, let alone the other stuff. I feel like a 40 year old guy who wants to start a career in the NFL or something; it's just too late... On top of that, I really don't have any social outlets. I don't life the bar scene because I very rarely drink and I don't want to end up with a girl who's a regular customer at the bar. My job consists of fixing cars for all the old people in this old people town; rarely does anyone under 30 come to our car shop to get work done. And out of the University and Community college I go to, the major I'm in at the Uni is like, 100% male students, and the community college I have 1 class per semester usually, and last semester the girl I was really interested in... I couldn't even talk to her without shying up too much. =\ So anyways, I really don't know what to do. I'm back in this small, lifeless, geriatric town that has no entertainment and ALL of my friends have moved, so I don't even have them for comfort anymore. I want a wife and kid(s) someday, but at the current rate I'm going, I'm terrified to think that it may never happen for me... I don't know how to start pretending to feel good about my looks. I don't know how to stop being shy when I care too much about how others perceive me and don't want to say anything stupid. I don't know how to get people to stop thinking I'm 16 without me telling them. People have told me in the past, "Just talk to any random girl and blah-blah-blah", but I just don't have it in me to make that drastic of a change; there's got to be some sort baby-steps that will help me change, but I don't know what they can be. Thanks for reading, and any advice would be greatly appreciated.

08-03-2008, 09:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
Raptor20561 Tilted Location: so cal	"I private messaged her on myspace telling her how I felt about her, and asked her if there was ever a time that she liked me" no no NO! Don't ever do that. Screw her she lost her chance with YOU and thats the mentality you have to have. Try going to the gym and working out or running, it's not just to look better but to feel better about how you look. You say you don't have an attractive face? fuck that i've seen ugly ass mother fuckers get hot chicks. Girl don't care about how you look they can pick up on how confident you are and you HAVE to be and act confident. You're what girls are going after and that's how you have to act. It's hard to do at first (especially if you're not a drinker... acting like a cocky, confident asshole is easy when you're drunk) but you have to practice it on girls. Don't be afraid of rejection... you'll never get better at talking with girls if you don't get rejected left and right. I got over rejection but it took a while. Let's say im at the school library and talk to a few girls. Who gives a fuck if I'm "rejected" it's THEIR loss, got it? The more girls you talk to the more chances are you'll meet a girl who connects with you. About all I have to say about that... go buy and read The Game by Neil Strauss. its a good read and will teach you about the pick up artist. sounds cheesy but it actually works most of the time. check this out too Mystery Method - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia read all about that shit online there are a lot of websites for it. if you have any other questions send me a pm __________________ Things have never been so swell I have never failed to fail

08-03-2008, 09:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
CandleInTheDark Addict Location: Where the music's loudest	Try this...can you walk down the street and look people in the eye without being the first to break contact? Your issue is confidence (duh), not your clothes, height, looks, lack of hair in manly places, or how many women you are actually surrounded by. You got rejected once and ran back to your little shell. If that is going to be your attitude and response to rejection, you might as well accept your fate right now. If you were the most outgoing and attractive man trying to pick-up women, you would still face rejection 90% of the time. Of that 10% you score a number from, 90% will be fakes. If you can handle the fact that 99% of the women you try to pursue aren't buying your shit, you are out of the game. You have to be unafraid to throw yourself to the wolves. You have to put yourself in the position to talk to strange women. You have to face rejection time and again. Otherwise you will never realize that rejection is all bark, no bite. I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. 26 times, I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed. -Michael Jordan __________________ Where there is doubt there is freedom.

08-03-2008, 09:39 PM	#4 (permalink)
Raptor20561 Tilted Location: so cal	btw i was reading the wiki link i posted dont ever use the line "If I weren't gay, you'd so be mine." But definitely get the book and read about the pick up artist. it'll boost your confidence cuz you'll have a better understanding of women __________________ Things have never been so swell I have never failed to fail

08-03-2008, 09:57 PM	#6 (permalink)
genuinegirly Eat your vegetables Super Moderator Location: Arabidopsis-ville	I dated a guy once who was 5'5". Most delightful kissing someone my height. He ended up breaking it off with me. He is now married with a kid. I think you stand a pretty good chance of faring similarly. Heck, you might do better - he had a speech impediment to go along with the height thing. The big difference between him and you? He had confidence. Honestly, work on the confidence. Do this by finding opportunities to spend time with the few non-geriatric in your immediate vicinity. You can spend time with the geriatric as well, in fact, volunteering does wonders for personal well-being. Still, you are going to need to be comfortable speaking with peers. Get a job at a coffee shop on the weekends and start TALKING to people. Learn the basics of striking up a conversation. Become comfortable giving compliments. You're going to do fine. You've taken the first step. One foot in front of the other until you reach it. Rests are fine. Backtracking happens. Just don't stop. __________________ "Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

08-04-2008, 06:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Burgerflipp Upright	Don't get too down' mate.Things could be worse;you could be in your 30's and never had a girlfriend.Please don't let things get that far.Please do something before it's too late. You're young...things are still salvageable. Good luck to you.

08-04-2008, 07:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
thespian86 change is hard. Location: the green room.	i'll say and say again: confidence is your best friend in everything in life; ESPECIALLY when it comes to women. No one likes someone who doesn't like themselves. Do whatever it takes for you to get that. You need that. For women, love yourself too; men like confident women too. __________________ EX: Whats new? ME: I officially love coffee more then you now. EX: uh... ME: So, not much.

08-04-2008, 07:41 AM	#11 (permalink)
777 drawn and redrawn Location: Some where in Southern California	For men, looks don't matter. Listen to this. At this electronics store I worked at, there's this short, over weight guy there. And the girls that shop at his section are flirting with him within seconds of meeting the guy! He's caring, compasionate, witty, and confident. Not at only that, but at the art department at his college, he's in charge of recruiting new models. And he's a little pudgy guy! So looks don't matter. It's all about how you feel about yourself, because others will feel that way too.

08-04-2008, 08:33 AM	#13 (permalink)
Mirth Tilted	Thank you everyone for reading my long post. I've read all of your replies so far. I've been contemplating on going to the gym, but I feel that I'm usually too exhausted after work -- which is very labor intensive -- and just like to relax or chill at my brother's house after work. Maybe I will rethink that and give it a shot. But yes, confidence is my biggest weakness, but in a way it's not. I'm the type of person that once I open up, I'm very funny, caring, and would give the shirt off of my back to help my friends or family. So, I guess I really have to work on opening up to women, and people in general, promptly. With that said, I know of the option to take the cocky/dickhead route towards women, but, I'm not sure that's for me because I want a woman to want me for my niceness and caring personality, not a woman who wants me because I was a dickhead to her for a few minutes and then gets bored of me quickly afterwards. But then again, "nice guys finish last", right? So, I'm a little bit confused how to act towards women, aside from acting confident.

08-04-2008, 09:06 AM	#17 (permalink)
dirtyrascal7 That's what she said	Honestly, we could sit here and give you all the advice you could ever absorb, but what you really need is to simply go out and practice (and be yourself). Yes, it will feel awkward at first and you might get your heart broken, but everyone goes through that... it's just part of the process. Make a goal to introduce yourself to one new girl each day. You don't need any special line or plan... just smile, say "hi", and go from there. Don't feel you need to only pick girls who you would date, either... it's probably a better idea to start out with girls who you don't find intimidating, anyway. Just make sure you stick with it and pretty soon it will get easier and easier. __________________ "Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past." "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him."

08-04-2008, 09:36 AM	#20 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	Try placing and ad on CL instead of just looking. Many more people surf it than place ads. In other words, like most people here have said, be pro-active. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet Last edited by Poppinjay; 08-04-2008 at 09:39 AM..

08-04-2008, 10:12 AM	#21 (permalink)
ironman Smithers, release the hounds Location: Guatemala, Guatemala	When I was starting law school I used to work with this guy that would come every monday with a different story of how he had scored a girl and take her home. He was very good looking, and always th ought that was the reason he scored so much so often, that I thought 'till the first time I ever hang out with him a saturday night. The guy was on fire, he would talk and joke with every woman at the bar, it didn't matter whether they were beautiful or bat-ugly (ugly girls do have beautiful friends he used to say) and surprisingly (at least for me at the time) he got rejected time after time after time, even by girls that were ugly by the kindest standards, but it didn't matter to him, he was on a mission and he wouldn't quit till he got what he was after, and he did. Later he explained me that every Monday he would told us about that one girl out of hundred that had accepted him, but never told us about all the rejection. That night changed my mind for ever, once you accept that you'll be rejected, no matter who you are are who you think you are, then you are ready to score big with women. __________________ If I agreed with you we´d both be wrong

08-04-2008, 03:54 PM	#25 (permalink)
Bear Cub The Reverend Side Boob Location: Nofe Curolina	Don't limit yourself to college activities. You want to exercise, and you need to find places that women flock. Put 2+2 together. Yoga/pilates classes, spinning classes, etc. __________________ Living in the United Socialist States of America.

08-05-2008, 01:51 AM	#26 (permalink)
abaya Location: Iceland	My husband was in your exact position at age 23, though he was in grad school (studying abroad in the US, since he was from another counrtry). He actually used to despair that he would be a virgin for the rest of his life, if that sounds familiar to you. But that year, he decided to take initiative with a lot of things in his life--he took a vacation in Iceland (something that eventually became very important in our relationship), he started doing kick-boxing classes (not the lame aerobics kind, but the real thing), he took salsa lessons, he went to parties (not pot-smoking ones, but parties where all the fun international students went--and I went, too), he went to the gym and worked out--and I started noticing all this, because he was doing a lot of these activities with my roommates at the time, and he got my attention. We started chatting on MSN all the time, in between seeing each other with our friends during social events, and I really liked what I saw in him. After a couple of months, I figured out that he liked me, and soon he told me how he felt (though he was quite shy and had to get a bit drunk to tell me, hehe). That was on his 24th birthday. We've been together ever since, 4.5 years now and married for almost 2. I'm writing to tell you that things really can happen this way. It's not rocket science. Being nice and caring is great and all, but it's not enough. You have to get the girl's attention somehow, and be an intriguing person in your own right, who has the boldness to straight up ask a woman on a date, and be able to handle whatever she says back to you. Over and over and over again. Try and get yourself to that point, in whatever way it takes. __________________ And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran

08-05-2008, 05:08 AM	#27 (permalink)
Iliftrocks Junkie Location: Near Raleigh, NC	Whatever you do, don't get into a desperate mindset. There are people who can sense it, and will use the crap out of you, if they get their hooks into you. You might get sympathy from a kind woman, but she will never respect you. You don't have to be a dickhead to be confident. A little self-deprecating humour can be good. Joke a little about your foibles. Also, you really can't go wrong with "Because I'm awesome" with a little bit of a laugh. It shows you think well of yourself, but you know you are not a god. Also, don't run out to the bars or social events with an end-game in mind. Don't marry every woman you meet and like (in your head). You will devastate yourself that way. Finding out that someone you like, doesn't want a relationship with you, shouldn't be the end of the world. Female friends can be good sounding boards about what might make you marketable, right? So do not alienate the ones that get away..... __________________ bill hicks - "I don't mean to sound bitter, cold, or cruel, but I am, so that's how it comes out."

08-05-2008, 06:04 AM	#29 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	This thread and the random girl in a mall thread reminded me of a kid I knew in high school. Greg was born with spina bifida, came from a poor, dysfunctional home, was wheelchair bound and had underdeveloped legs. A group of us happened to run (roll) into each other at the local mall, including a girl named Terri. As we were all talking about whatever - probably Oingo Boingo or WHAM! (who knew?) - this guy, who has every reason to be shy, unsure, insecure, looked up at Terri and said in a casualness matched only by Roger Moore as James Bond, "so when're we going out?" Not only was Terri not repelled, she was flustered and giggled. So, c'mon. If that guy could pull it off while still in high school, you should have no problem. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

08-05-2008, 02:34 PM	#31 (permalink)
Mirth Tilted	I read the rest of the replies, thanks for the good advice and to the people who had stories of people in a similar situation, it is very inspiring that I may have a chance. Anywho, I think I tried a little bit today; at least moreso than I normally would. I went up to the main college today to take two finals -- which is I just go into the testing center at any time to take, one at a time -- and the girl at the reception desk (maybe in her late 20's) asked for my ID, class, and things, and I actually made a few witty remarks. I can't remember what exactly I said, but she stopped acting as serious as she first did and started to make witty-replies back and had a big smile! I came back and said, "Whew, made it out alive!", and she was like, "Most people never make it out!" and laughed, and I told her I had another test to take for another course, so she got out the papers and said I could use notes on it. I didn't know I could use notes... "Notes?" I said. "I'm just gonna wing-it!", and she laughed and wished me good luck. Corny as that may seem, I think it's a good start for me, when I would have normally just not said anything to her in the first place. But, when I was doing all of this, I felt really good about myself; I didn't even think about my looks or anything, I was like, "Just be Mirth..." Oh yeah, and then I got a traffic ticket for not completely stopping at a red light (As posted in general discussion). Kinda killed my buzz!!! So, I'm very busy this week, but next week or this weekend, I'm going to see how costly the gym is and not only build up some tone, but some confidence too!