thespian86

As I read the Mother-Child break ups my stomach starts to turn. My current girlfriend, my semi-high school sweet heart, now fiance, who I've been with for five years now has Mother problems, or should I say, I have them. To make a very long and over dramatic story short, her mother was a performer while she was growing up and was not home for two days out of the week. Because of this, she has come to the conclusion that complete control over her daughters affairs and decisions are a way of counter balancing this sob story. I have heard it over and over. I have no pity for her; my father was beaten as a child by his father and he is the greatest man I've ever met. He doesn't act like a child, throw fits by screaming and crying and slamming doors. He doesn't imply that all of the good decisions I've made in my life were a direct result of his guidance and without it I'd be nothing.

I look at the wonderful human being my fiance is and see the effects of her mother's words in her actions everyday. She wanted to pursue arts at a fine university that would of accepted her in a minute but her mother convinced her she wasn't smart enough (without using those words). She suffers from a mental illness that she has no control over, yet her mother constantly burdens her by making her feel as if she ruined said mother's life when she struggled in high school with said illness. She makes her feel irresponsible for spending a day shopping once every couple of months, even though she works two jobs without a word and smiles the whole time. She is unwarrantedly rude to me all of the time, making snide remarks which I don't comment on. Even simple things like "Can you take the picture, I just want family" are meant to hurt; I realize in many cases this isn't true but in this one it is.

I've spent so long putting up with her bizarre limitations on my GF as they not only affect her future, but my life as well. I can't ask my GF to not have her mother in her life because she loves her and that is why I have put up with it. They have a very strange friendship; I think it is emotionally abusive at times. I'm so worn out by walking on eggshells constantly.

Last week was the worst example thus far. I just began giving guitar lessons to children. My GF mother sat me down to discuss safety. She began by talking down to me for about twenty minutes, the whole time I nodded yes and replied to her, then began degrading one of the children because they are from a trailor park... I freaked... what do I do? I don't know?

Help... share experiences. Please

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EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Willravel

I usually go for the direct approach:
"*insert future mother-in-law's name her*, you've been treating me horribly for a long time. I love *insert girlfriend's name here* more than anything in the world, but I don't have to put up with your innapropriate behavior. It's gotta stop."

Remember, the more you walk on eggshells, the more she thinks her behavior is okay. You don't want to continue reinforcing this unless you plan on putting up with this until she dies, you break up with her daughter, or you kill yourself.

savmesom11

Just because your gf continues to allow her mother to influence her life doesn't mean that you have to allow her to influence yours. Bluntly speaking tell her so, don’t walk on eggshells you owe her nothing. You can go at it a couple of ways, nicely as Will says, "Your behavior toward me is unacceptable, if you continue to behave this way I no longer wish to share my time with you." Or not so nicely: Your manipulative attitude disgusts me, I tolerate you only for gf’s sake, don’t give me advise or even feel compelled to make small talk with me as I have no interest in being cordial with you any longer.” She doesn't need to be welcome in your home either if she is going to insult you and she certainly doesn't need to be included in your activities. The hurdle you will really have to focus on once you have separated yourself from her will be to not be consumed by the problems she and your gf have because unfortunately the gf is enabling the behavior. Although you will definitely have to sit down with the gf and explain that you don’t want your relationship to suffer because of her mother, that you are there for her because you love her and she will be your wife but she needs to respect your decision to sever ties. I am a firm believer in your parents are only responsible for who you are until your 18, after that it is up to you to decide who you want to be and what you will become. Your father is a perfect example of this.

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* I do not believe that struggles are a sign of life falling apart, but rather a step of life falling into place. *

jewels

It's often hard to break free of chains of the controlling mother. It wasn't 'til I had my first child and I knew how I was going to raise her and my mom was trying to tell me what to do. I finally stood up and told her that I appreciated her advice and would ask for her help if when needed it. It was a wake-up call for her and actually changed our relationship for the better.

Some moms have a hard time letting go, so it's not until we get up the chutzpah to let them know this so they can realize that we're old enough to take responsibility for ourselves.

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We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess.
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thespian86

My natural instinct everytime is to sit her down and have the discussion. I'm not afraid of her, and I realize I endorse how she acts through my own timid actions. This isn't a case of me not standing up to her out of fear of her but rather what it would do to my GF. She and her mother are unnaturally close (I say that as a product of my home, not as a general statement) and she will never sever ties with her. I don't want to put her in a situation where she is caught in between. I'd like to think that it is simple for her but it's not and I am totally understanding of her tricky situation. But now it's gotten to the point where I don't know how I won't be able to sever ties with her.

I have tried to have the talk but she (the mother) often spirals to a point of grade school hair pulling and crying and throwing fits. I've never raised my voice, I've never said anything insulting to her; I'm trying to be the bigger person but it doesn't seem to work either. But I also have priciples and I refuse to lower myself to her level, as well as be abused by a women who has no right to do so. Right now it's been about two weeks since we last spoke. The GF has talked to The Mom every day in those two weeks. The Mother came over to house with her husband (whom I get along with very well) and I said "Hey Guys" pleasently and her dad replied with a friendly "Hello" and she stood there without even looking to me; all I could think of is my five year old sister saying "Is that the wind, because I don't see anyone".

I can see strain in my GF as if she wants to change it but doesn't know how. My solution for the past few months has been giving her advice on how to fix it because I don't think I can fix my problem before she does without harming the situation. I'm trying to be diplomatic I suppose. Realistically though I know I'm dreaming; there is no diplomacy with this woman, and no way to win an arguement or even discuss something because if she loses control of the situation she runs... literally, slamming doors behind her.

I don't really give a fuck about how she talks to me because in the end she means nothing to me except how she treats my future wife. I'm worried right now because my GF is looking into furthering her education and hoping to expand her job opportunities. I've told her that I think she should go where it fits her best, where she can get the most out of it. I would miss her, and we would be apart but I want her to be happy and I want her to be prepared for life. Her mother is all but forcing her to stay in town, go to a crappy community college where she would do nothing and she knows it. That's why I'm worried.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Jinn

If your fiancee had a same-age peer (best friend) who made her feel the way her mother is making her feel, wouldn't you be working desperately to keep her away from that friend?

I think if you love your fiancee you will do everything in your power to get her away from her mother. It'll be tough, but I see clinical depression (if not already), eating disorders and suicide in the future for someone who can't separate themselves from such a toxic influence. All three act as a lever to gain control over one's life in the presence of (perceived) force. I don't think she can do it herself, so it's a good thing you're there.

GET HER AWAY FROM HER MOM.

BTW:

"A man who is engaged to be married is called his partner's fiancé; a woman similarly engaged is called her partner's fiancée. These words are pronounced identically in English; the separate feminine form exists because of the inflectional morphology of grammatical gender in French, where the term originated."

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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

girldetective

I agree with JinnKai. It could not hurt to have a little distance between the two and allow your gf to grow up and flourish on her own (and with you). This does not have to mean a permanent break with mom. It could be a time for each of them to get a little perspective on how they feed on one another. Healthy.

My girls would never allow me to treat them or theirs that way, and I would not anyway. After my oldest introduced me to her betrothed (who has a rather large nose) over dinner, he excused himself to use the restroom. When he left she turned to preempt me and said, "Dont ask if its as large as his nose." I cant even think things around my girls. They are always on to me.

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As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons...be cheerful; strive for happiness - Desiderata

Cynthetiq

You marry not just your fiancee, but also her family.

Keep that in mind if you think you're going to resolve this in the short term, her mom will always be there. ALWAYS.

This is a matter of you accepting how she is and what YOU do about it.

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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

thespian86

Jinnkai - My on the fly grammatical errors aren't my problem here, so let's not make it one. Your point about separating the two is, at this point in our lives, impossible. We are still quite young; we're also aware of this and that young love doesn't always last so we aren't making life changing decisions that involve both of us (although, I know if one change is made with one partner, it will obviously affect the other; we believe it just doesn't have to "involve") but we are constantly making large compromises to help each other, because, well, we love each other (for example: if she had to move to Ottawa to go to school and I was beginning what I thought could be my future career, we would both agree it is unfair for us to ask each other to move and give up our dreams, and work out a way to make our relationship work on our terms). However, this separation you speak of would mean a major change, not only in her relationship with her mother, but most likely making a large relocation.

Also, the comparison of a mother to a close friend isn't very valid. Her mother gave birth to her, raised her, and developed all the good qualities she has as well. It is just her controlling and often child like behavior that has my FIANCEE often catering to her needs, and forgetting her own. Sadly, at this point in her life, she needs to make big decisions and changes and they often get lost in a need to please and support her mother. Also, they love each other, in only a way family can. She is not always a horrible person, her actions are just out of order at what seems the most inappropriate times. I am not justifying her actions but rather being realistic. Asking my fiancee to leave a family that she is so very close to (remember this would mean cutting ties to her very close younger brother and very close father) behind is not realistic.

In fact, there are two outcomes that I see: one, it would become a silent but deadly wedge between us, or two, she would be horribly unhappy. Her severing ties is not a long term solution, but rather her doing exactly what her mother does which is run away when things are difficult, or turning hr back on a situation that could help her grow, as well as her mother. I'm not going to support her running either, just like I wouldn't support her running from a sticky situation in school, or work, or what have you. This situation is not life threatening (although you felt the need to imply it might be) but it is destructive. It can be stopped though.

Also, I suffer from clinical depression and anxiety and I come from a wonderful family. I just have a messed up head, so to speak.

Namako; I agree that a maybe toning down their contact and what is shared between to two would help gain perspective, for both of them, but a complete separation is out of the question, right now. You sound a lot like my father, incredibly supportive and not afraid to poke fun in a non-harmful kind of way. My mother is also distantly supportive because she respects me as a person, although sometimes I don't know why after the teen years hahaha. I do think, that it is a lack of respect between The mother and my fiancee; not only one way, but both ways. If my fiancee had more respect for her mother she wouldn't stoop to her, at times, pathetic levels. She does stoop. Her mother is an adult. So is she. Neither of them treat each other accordingly, which is what I think is the root of the problem.

Cynth: Wise as always. You hit the nail right on the head. What I am worried about is not only her future, but our future. I can't stand by, I'm not that person, but also if it's not fixed what do I do. There is only so much one man or woman can do, am I right? I'm not there yet, not even close, which makes me happy to realize how committed I am. I have, however, told my fiancee that the moment it becomes destructive in my life outside of simple skirmishes, I am out. I don't want to give her an ultimatum because I don't hate her mom, and I'm not a film or a fourteen year old.

In the end both of us want the best for each other and she realizes that what happened two weeks ago is unacceptable and is treating it accordingly. She refuses to be a messenger except to say "Chris says as soon as you are ready to have an adult discussion without the dramatic speeches and flailing, then he is at the house and willing to do so." She said it, not me, but that is exactly how I feel. She knows how I feel about their relationship and she isn't ignoring it. This isn't, at the moment, an "us" problem, it is a problem with The Mother and my fiancee, and a separate one with the mother and I.

Longest post by me I think. Thanks for listening, it means a lot to have you consider and answer. But I'm looking for long term solutions that I haven't come up with I guess. Although I realize this is one of those "do the obvious" things that I always roll my eyes at, but I'm on the other end of it and it's not obvious.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

thespian86

Update: We talked for the first time yesterday at the gym (we both go to the same one) and she was pleasant. Today however she denied me my NFL network. I am ever so pissed.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

monkey baby

I sortof know what your gf is going through. I may have very well lost the love of my life because of my mother. I moved in with my mother to help her financially and myself too. I know she can be very controlling and needy all at the same time. I have a son that she tries to tell me how to raise and goes behind my back to undermine my authority with him. This has caused several arguments. I was always able to call my boyfriend and he would talk to me helping me calm down to get through. See she (mom) will have a screaming match then five minutes later is fine. I hold a grudge for a while and have a problem with her trying to chat me up just after a blowout, that is where talking with him would help.

About 6 months ago my bf moved in with us to help him out as well. Everything was fine for a while, but the constant problems with my mother got worse. She wanted "her" house run the way SHE wanted it (even though she was not working and I was supporting her). She does not like my bf, she thinks he is too controlling of me and everything else. He brings out the best in me and helps me to be a better person. One problem is that as he was just as frustrated with my mother (if not more so) as I was that I could not go to him for that calming. I eventually ended up taking my frustration out on him and also let my mothers doubt of his commitment to our relationship effect me. I was having trouble trusting him.

Well, the outcome.....He moved out yesterday. He went to live with his mother in MS, I live in FL (for the moment). We were planning on moving out of state together once my son finished this school year, but he could not take it anymore. Needless to say that this has devastated me, he wants to "take a break". He tells me that after I move to AZ and am in my own place that he will give us another chance, but who knows when he will be coming out to be with me. Everything is up in the air right now.

I need to keep aware of my mother's effect on me and not let her continue to make me into someone I DO NOT want to be (her). My mother also belittles me, making me feel that I do not deserve to be with anyone. After I told her what was happening with my bf moving and the reason, she laughed and said that it was all me. She is alone and wants me to be alone too. I MUST be separated from her, far away where she can't just drop in to get myself back.

I don't know if your gf's mother has effected her to the point of her treating you any differently, but if it happens....distance from her mother would be the best thing for the BOTH of you. Please stick by her side through this difficult time. I know it will be hard, just don't let what you two have go so easily.

thespian86

Monkey - You're situation sounds much more difficult then mine. Sorry to hear you're having a hard time and it seems with you son in the mix it would make it all the more difficult. I'm trying my best to put a distinct space between our relationship, and the relationship she has with her mother. I respect her mother's opinions inasmuch that I don't openly criticize him. I will give her mine.

At times I think I don't give my GF enough credit. Hearing it from the POV of the daughter shows me pretty much what I've always kind of known; my gf isn't an idiot, she is aware of this two, she just has patience for it. Me on the other hand, I don't see anything but a crutch. That's me I guess.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

Kahn

The very first question both the mrs and I have to ask here is .. is the mother greek? Seriously, this woman sounds like the female version of my father-in-law .. to the letter .. minus the emotional outbursts part, but yeah, everything else is exactly the same. He doesn't like me .. period .. and he's not concerned with concealing his disdain. He is never to be pleased with anything my wife does in her life, is always condescending, judgmental, and verbally abusive to the point of bringing her to tears. He is retired, and makes it his life's work to tell her at every possible opportunity what she is doing wrong in her life and makes every effort in controlling everything she does .... think micromanagement to the highest degree and you'll be close to what this guy does to her.

A huge plus for us is that we live some 500 miles away and we don't usually have to hear from her parents, unless it's a call or a necessary visit. I understand that is not an option for you right now, I'm just saying, it does help. Make no mistake about it, my wife's father does love her very much .. as much as any cruel bastard can love a daughter I suppose, but cruel bastard he is indeed, to both of us. He has impossibly high expectations for us that we simply cannot attain and has no idea how to express his love for her without being a total jackass.

That being said, I feel qualified to say .. I can relate. These are some suggestions I utilized and they worked out for us, so far at least .. the dad still doesn't like me but we're happy. Maybe some of the things we've done can help you too. First, sit the daughter down and set things straight WITH HER. If she is not with the plan, there is no plan and you may as well start packing. You may have already had this conversation, in which case you can skip to the next part, but BE SURE she is with you on this or .. seriously .. you've got no hope in salvaging this relationship or your sanity. She MUST support you over her mother in this conflict (and you MUST remain worthy of that support) .. there really isn't any room for anything short of unity in this situation. Make sure you love her AND she knows you love her .. without question, and that you support her AND her relationship with her lunatic mother .. BUT .. your love for each other trumps the relationship with the mother and must come first .. period .. there can be no debate on that.

Next, if the daughter is still with you on this .. enforce positive relations between the mother and the daughter through the daughter. Emphasize on the positive aspects of them maintaining their relationship and reaffirm their love for each other. Help her to understand that her mother won't always be there to support her OR frustrate her through the same nagging ways most all parents hassle their kids about living their own lives. The idea here is to place more focus on the positive aspects of their dynamic and reduce stress from the negative ones by reducing them systematically. It's not an easy thing to accomplish, but the effort will pay off down the road, just trust me on this one.

If you've gotten this far and are ready to move on, then you need to confront the mother. You've already stated you have no fear of the woman and have been more than patient with her behaviour. Let her know .. RESPECTFULLY .. that this is your line in the sand. You intend to marry her daughter and be her husband for the rest of your lives and she needs to come to terms with that. Be direct. This is how it is and there isn't anything you can say or do that will change that .. and stick to your guns. Let her know that her behaviour towards you is no longer acceptable and neither is her treatment towards her daughter. She is either going to respect you for making a stand to protect your relationship with her daughter, or she is going to hate your guts even more. I'd say the risk is worth the reward.

If her mother is as insane as my father-in-law, dude, you have my sympathies. To this day, I can't stand my wife's father and he can't stand me, and he still does some of the things we both dislike. After five years of this, he has at least accepted the fact that I'm not leaving and she isn't either. On the bright side, the relationship I have with his daughter is the best .. she is my everything, man. If this girl truly is your everything too .. never let her forget it and stop at nothing to help her mom see it too.



In closing, my wife is co-writing this and won't shut up until I say this .....

To her: it's not going to be easy. This will be an everyday / all the time situation that you will have to decide between your mother and your fiance. As long as you are following your heart, the happiness WILL outweigh the pain.

To him: stand your ground against the mother and be a strong backbone for the daughter. There will inevitably be tears, and when that happens be the shoulder she can cry on, and remain patient.

From both of us to both of you .. this is not an easy situation to deal with, but if you love each other as much as we do .... it's worth it.

__________________
Attention everyone: We have another potential asshole in the area !

You don't have bad luck, the reason bad things happen to you is because you're a dumbass !!

Dinner $50
Drinks $30
Motel $40

Finding out she swallows -
PRICELESS!!!

thespian86

Thank you both of you. No she isn't Greek; she's British.

The line has been drawn officially. She has tried to make nice but in a way that has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. Not to be rude, but sort of like a dog that has shit all over the carpet, realizes what it has done, and is acting sorry until you pet it's head again. I refuse to stroke her ego, which seems to be what she so desperately needs at the moment. It's hard. It's getting done though.

__________________
EX: Whats new?
ME: I officially love coffee more then you now.
EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.