match000

So.. when you don't like someone, I've recently found that the best way is to feign liking / indifference, or at least mask your dislike of them. Because if you don't, you make one more enemy... who can get nasty (ie backstabbing). I tend to be someone who cannot hide my emotions, so when I am angry / pissed, its written all over my face no matter how hard I try. When I dislike someone, apparently I've been told its also written all over my face.

The context is that back in summer, me and a few coworkers were hanging out, and (I posted a thread about this this summer) my coworker "A" who is an ass makes a lewd joke about my girlfriend ("I'd only do her after 6 drinks"). So basically I ignored this guy afterwards while remaining civil at work (saying hi, small chit-chat, etc). However, he's been hanging out since summer with 2 senior coworkers of mine ("B" and "C"), and I believe he has been backstabbing me somehow because I slowly feel that B and C have some dislike towards me that has developed slowly since then..

such as C *loudly* asking other people in the office if they want to grab dinner, but not me. Or when it is just them (A,B,C) in the office and I walk in, they stop talking, and instead discussed about how to 3-way chat in gmail (in front of me). or other things such as excluding me from coworker hangouts (at bars, etc) that they organize. or just how they talk to me, ie condescendingly, etc.

basically, it creates an uncomfortable environment for me in our office (9 desks total). i've been trying hard to be civil and polite but somehow every time I converse with them, they turn something I say around to make fun of me or embarass me. also they might start poisoining everyone else in the office against me too..

everytime they do something like that, it pisses me off and its written all over my face. i know i shouldnt let it affect me, but i guess i am more sensitive..

so does anyone know how i can learn to hide my emotions? can I learn to smile towards people I dislike? its hard...! or does anyone know what else i can do?

ps. when i say "office" i mean for grad students. i am a grad (23) and "B" is 29 and "C" is 25. "A" is 23. They are pretty immature for 20+ year olds.

Charlatan

Here's the thing... what you are advocating is passive aggressive behaviour.
Hiding your emotions or how you really feel about someone is *not* the way to go.

You should always remain diplomatic in how you approach other, especially in the office, but you should always be honest with them (and even more honest with yourself).

It does sound like they are being assholes, but just because they are playing games doesn't mean you should. In the long run, it is much better to straight, honest and consistent in all of your dealings.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

abaya

Are you generally a passive-aggressive person? I agree with Charlatan on that assessment.

Be assertive. I know it's hard in a grad student environment (I had a group office exactly like yours, my first year in grad school), but obviously these dudes are assholes and you are getting nowhere by tolerating their behavior with your silence.

In my opinion, you ought to have addressed coworker A immediately after he made a joke about your girlfriend being ugly. It seems that ever since then, he has decided that you're not going to stand up for yourself, so he and the other guys are just going to walk all over you.

And you're continuing to let them to do that, as long as you stand down and avoid confrontation/conflict. (I am not talking about starting a fight; I mean just standing up for yourself, both verbally and with your attitude.)

If you're having trouble being assertive, then I suggest you get into counseling. It's a good, safe place to practice those skills until you're ready to use them in real life.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Charlatan

Some notes on passive aggressive behaviour:
http://www.coping.org/anger/passive.htm#What

Some notes on being more assertive:
http://www.couns.uiuc.edu/Brochures/assertiv.htm

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

analog

There's a fairly well-defined line between outright lying to someone for your own amusement/cause, and just being passive-aggressive.

The deciding factor seems to be assertiveness (or lack of).

If you aren't assertive enough to give people shit when they deserve it, you're just setting yourself up to be disrespected more. People can tell when you're being passive-aggressive, and it will generally make them more angry, more distant, and likely to respect you even less than they do now.

Cynthetiq

personally i don't give a crap about my coworkers and other "mates"

i'm there to get a task/job done, not be friends, brothers, and sisters. because of that, i'm not interested in playing games or being passive aggressive. i will ask what their problem is and that may or may not fix it. being assertive isn't a magic bullet to resolving all conflict, it does however give you the mental release of "letting it go" so that you can concentrate on what you are there for, your job or duty.

being assertive means that you exhaust all your options as well, this means you may have to speak to the senior people you are worried about being "backstabbed". again, assertive doesn't guarantee results. your duty is to speak to them about your performance and professionalism. ask them flat out if you are not living up to the standards and that this game playing is getting in the way of your concentration and creating a hostile work environment.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

The_Jazz

I manage my team of people and watch lots of my peers manage their teams. If the 4 of you worked for me, I'd manage you right out the door.

Seriously.

Perhaps things are different in the academic world and the nonprofit world, but I've always found in the corporate world that those who engage in petty bullshit like this generally aren't very good employees otherwise. I have friends that have worked in places where this level of bullshit is tolerated, and I like to call those places "buffooneries" because that's where the buffoons hang out.

The answer to this isn't to stoop to their level. If you really and truely want to solve this problem, you'll take it to management or HR. If you start acting out in a similar fashion, then you're no better than they are. If you came to me with this problem, I'd deal with it only because it threatens to become a huge distraction from the task at hand.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Seer666

Why does it matter? They're buddies, your not. Big deal. As long as they don't get int eh way of getting the job done, who gives a rats ass if they like you or not? Fuck em. Do your job, act professional, and let them be the ones acting like tools. I'll assume you have people in your life that actually matter, so who the fuck needs clowns like that?

__________________
Bad spellers of the world untie!!!

I am the one you warned me of

I seem to have misplaced the bullet with your name on it, but I have a whole box addressed to occupant.

Jinn

For once, I completely disagree with you Charlatan. I think there is a very dramatic difference between being passive aggressive and pretending to like someone. Passive aggressiveness is very obvious - it's the snobby looks, the backstabbing, petty bickering, or ignoring someone completely. To the reciever, it's very visible.. I can tell when someone is trying to manipulate me with passive aggressiveness. The best way to counteract it, I've noticed, is to act like you don't see it at all.

Pretending to like someone, on the other hand, can be completely transparent. I'm a very emotive person, but I'm also very well aware of my facial expressions and my body language, because I've been surrounded by passive aggressive people all of my life. I can pretend very convincingly that I like someone and enjoy their company, and similarly pretend that I'm oblivious to their passive-aggressive actions. Executed routinely enough over a long period of time, and the passive aggressive person will simply stop acting that way to me. It's much the same to a schoolyard bully who calls you a "wimp" everytime you see him. If your face, body language or speech conveys that it bothers you when he uses it, he'll continue to do so. But as soon as you can convincingly ignore the jeer, it has no power of you. He can say it all he wants, but it doesn't have the desired (bullying) effect. Soon afterwards, he'll either stop calling you names, or he'll select another insult.

If someone is going to be passive aggressive towards me, or if it's clear that someone doesn't like me (for whatever reason), I opt to pretend that I like them. I'll kill them with kindness, especially if they might have an effect on my life in any form. The people who want to treat me like shit will simply be used as pawns in my life when it suits me, and be none the wiser.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

match000

I guess as you guys have pointed out, I am being too passive-agressive. I think the original point of my post was that I want to learn how to *stop* being a passive-aggressive person (a pushover / stonewaller). There seems to be 2 options:

1) assert myself. (as most people have recommended)
2) feign liking and mask dislike (as JinnKai pointed out)

For option 1), my problem with being assertive or being passive-aggressive is that I am extreme on both ends: when I try to assert myself, my facial tones come off too strongly and I am way too confrontational; there is no way of being "nicely but strongly" assertive. I think this is something I need to work on..?

But what I am thinking is most beneficial in *most situations in life* is option 2). As JinnKai said, if you can truly *not let it get to yourself*, and also have a complete "nice mask", you can start manipulating people into your social pawns. Its not nice to be manipulative, but if they are going to be treating you like shit, why not?

This is pretty hard to do; if you are nice, they might still be asses.. it takes skill and patience I guess. So.. how do you go about doing this?? What's the best way to practice?

Abaya, your suggestion about going to a counselor to practice being assertive was good. However.. that's a little too "shrinkish" for me; I don't think there's anything wrong wiht myself to that degree..!

Also, I think that going to "HR" or the "management" (i use quotes since I'm actually in grad school), will probabl backfire. I think that what would happen if you go to management with issues like this is: 1) they think your a wuss who needs to "tattle-tale" 2) they think you can't deal with other people yourself 3) they think your a crybaby

I was actually trying to do this except it does eventually get annoying. And I guess my skin isnt thick enough then?? Cuz if it were, it really shouldnt get annoying, as u pointed out..

Cynthetiq

I'd go so far and encompass Jinn's statement as also being assertive. Because one cannot just feing like in the face of someone constantly shitting on them. It is near impossible, not to mention, how else do you feign the like? how do you get them to do things you want them to do? you have to assert your desires and thoughts towards them.

As far as the practice is concerned, you can go to assertive training courses, or you can see a therapist, if you don't like that word, use counselor. Counselors are there to help you navigate through situations. They will help walk you through that practice and you are doing it with someone who isn't a friend and can be objective and outside of your circle of friends and family.

Re: the tattle tale, that may be the case when something is "petty" but when it actually is getting in the way of your duty and job, it is no longer petty but getting in the way of you accomplishing the task at hand. So complaining that your boss is not speaking nice to you is petty, your coworkers creating a hostile environment is not. It also depends on how you assert yourself to them. If you are complaining and whiney about it, yes, it will come off that way. But if you are asserting yourself, for example asking, why you aren't fitting in with the rest of the team so well when tasks are assigned they do not include you in discussions. That is important.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

The_Jazz

Time for The_Jazz's Patented Corporate Tough Love:

If you go to management over this petty bullshit, you are demonstrating to them that you are a wuss, can't deal with others easily and you are a crybaby. If my team of folks had you 4 working on it, I would make you someone else's problem very quickly, most likely by "finding you another opportunity" since I never fire anyone.

They're not harrassing you. They're not doing anything to you. If they "poison" your coworkers against you, why the fuck do you care? I once had someone working for me that I absolutely couldn't stand, but I kept her on board because she was awesome at what she did. When she resigned a few years ago, she thanked me for looking past our personal differences and realizing that she was a good employee. I still wouldn't piss on her if she was on fire, but she set a very high watermark in terms of team service, and professionally I wish her well (and privately hope that she gets hit by a truck). These three buffoons aren't even attempting to drag you down with them; they're just playing little distraction games amongst themselves using you as the bait. Either you're going to join the buffoonery or you're going to rise above it.

Assuming that you get out of grad school and join the corporate world, you'll be amazed at how little tolerance there is for this kind of petty bullshit. Rise above it and act like you're actually a good employee.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Cynthetiq

Jazz, thanks for making it clearer than I was able.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

waltert

these kinds of rivalries really wont turn out well... There was a similar rivalry between two people at my dad's company, and it was just a matter of time before the one who was easier to replace was fired for a legitimate infraction. (taking too long of a break, in this case).

Martian

Yeah, dude, two things.

1) You're at work to work. If you get along with your co-workers, great. Have fun. If you don't get along with your co-workers, ignore them and focus on the job. That's what you're there for, after all. If you have to deal with them, be polite and professional. There's no excuse for a lack of professionalism and showing a little bit of detachment in that way will take you far.

2) You don't have to have something wrong with you to go see a therapist. Or, if you prefer, we all have things wrong with us; whichever way you'd rather look at it works. Regardless, a therapist's job is to help you sort out issues just like this one, in order to be happier and healthier overall. There's a huge stigma attached to the idea of therapy that really isn't deserved. I've seen a therapist in the past and a large number of our members here see one regularly. That doesn't mean we're crazy, have issues or are in any way abnormal; it just means that we see the value in discussing our problems with a neutral third party.

Since you're in college there's probably a program available to you to allow you to see a therapist at a reduced cost. You shouldn't be afraid to avail yourself of it; you may be surprised at what you can learn.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

abaya

Thanks, Martian... you beat me to it. match, do you really think only "crazy" people go to therapy? That's not what I meant at all. Practically every grad student I know has been in counseling, and it's not because we're crazy. It's because grad school basically sucks ass, in a lot of ways, and if you don't take care of your mental health, you end up in very bad situations, far worse than the one you're currently in. It just keeps building up and building up, if you don't nip it in the bud early enough.

In my 2 years in group therapy, we had quite a few people in the group who had exactly the same issue as you do. They were very passive-aggressive, and could not communicate properly with their colleagues without either blowing up or hunkering down into themselves, neither of which were very good solutions (as you have noticed). Luckily, they were wise (and humble) enough to see that they could benefit from therapy, and so they came. Through the group process, they learned and practiced ways of addressing difficult people head on, in a calm, assertive manner... it took time, but by the end, they had the tools they needed to go out and have much more productive grad school careers.

That's the point of therapy. Lots of us have done it, as Martian said. I think those of us who have done it are generally far better off for it, from what I have read on TFP. Grad school is actually one of the best times to get into counseling, because usually your university provides it for free (or cheaply), which is something you will never be as lucky to find in the real world.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

snowy

What you would want to find, match000, is a therapist who specializes in cognitive-behavioral therapy (and most therapists these days seem to focus on this). Passive-aggressive behavior is exactly the kind of stuff they work on fixing. They'll talk with you about your problem with your co-workers, and make suggestions on actions to take to improve the situation. They'll help you learn to be more assertive and a better communicator with your co-workers.

You can do this yourself with self-help books on passive-aggressive behavior, but the likelihood is that 1) going to see a therapist at your university is cheaper (I get six visits free a term), 2) seeing a therapist is more likely to be effective, and 3) you're more likely to see benefits from therapy faster, as the therapist is professionally trained to help you modify your behavior to address the problem at hand, and clearly, you are not.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

Charlatan

Hey Jinn

Some of the main aspects of being passive aggressive are:

• Hiding your hostility by seeming to be nice to someone you dislike, and are unable to be honest with the person.
• Telling people what they want to hear, even if you don't believe in what you are saying.
• Hating something or someone but am afraid of letting you true feelings show.
  
• Being angry but afraid to show your anger, so then quietly take your revenge by doing the opposite.

What you described is also generally true of passive aggressive behaviour, but not always. There are a few flavours.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Echan

Have you all seen the Jim Carrey movie, Liar Liar?

I find the comments about avoiding passive-aggressive behavior interesting. I've been known to be a upfront person. If I have a problem with someone, they are never surprised if I just flat up tell them they piss me off, and we need to resolve it.

Even then, there are many times I show passive-aggressive behavior just to get on in life. While it would be great if I could just work out these issues with everyone, I feel it would likely disrupt things more than a balance of working things out and giving them a cold shoulder when they aren't even worth your time.

At what point would it be reasonable to show that behavior?

For example, you go to Star Bucks and pick up something for a coworker because you are feeling nice. They don't thank you, and happily take the beverage without even offering to pay.

Personally, I wouldn't say anything (I wasn't expecting to get paid back for it). The lack of any reciprocation in the form of having my drink covered, or a thank you will definitely put a mental note in the back of my mind to not go out of my way to do ANYTHING nice for them in the future.

I could see the reasoning for why that would be unhealthy to damage a relationship like that. I just can't imagine that explaining to them how they offended wouldn't just make things more uncomfortable.

Sure, if they don't say anything, I could easily just add a comment along the lines of.. just pick up the tab next time we go. Or when it comes to the bill at a restaurant, ask if they can throw in a 5 so I don't have to ask for change to cover their coffee last week; It still doesn't change that I've already added their lack of verbal appreciation into my interpretation of what kind of person they are.

I remember when I was a kid, I had something stolen from me and I asked for advice. The advice I gotten was to steal it back and that was only in the 90s. I'm sure there was far tougher love in the previous decades. The thing was, it worked out well. There were no real social ramifications that could be felt at my age, but a few years later when a similar scenario happened again and I said fuck that, I wasn't satisfied enough with actions from last time? I got my property back, but the shit storm that I had to wade through to resolve everything was not worth it.

I guess my moral compass never points true north. If I were in the OPs shoes. I would have called the guy out for the girlfriend comment, but I see the effort required to settle things with the other coworkers to be greater than the amount of relief and satisfaction I would gain from working things out. While I think suggestions about therapy are great. I believe that some amount of misdirection or deception (getting your money back for a coffee) are fine when dealing with people.

I see things in a similar way to your thoughts in your original post. If I hate someone, I don't feel like I should also burn the bridge or allow an opportunity for them to help me sometime down the road disappear. Why reveal a weakness that his antics trouble me for an inconsiderate coworker I may never see again in 6 months. I certainly wouldn't bother.

MSD

Put up with them professionally and if they don't want to be friends, fuck 'em. All you have to do at work is get your job done.

You could also go postal and shoot up the office, but you're a bit young to be that disgruntled.

Plan9

That's right. Proper mass homicide comes with time, young grasshopper.

...

Work is work. You milk work for money. Don't take it personal.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."