The World of Warcraft Thread

[Frosstbyte]

While playing BM (and BM alone, really) is relatively easy in raids, hunters are without a doubt one of the hardest to play well and worst classes in Arena PVP, and you're just silly if you want to argue with that. That said, there's no reason to rant and rave and complain about ANY changes to ANY classes until they're in final release phase and we know everyone's talent trees and such.

There's still a lot out there to figure out but I'm thinking it looks good at the moment.

[Apokx]

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

While playing BM (and BM alone, really) is relatively easy in raids, hunters are without a doubt one of the hardest to play well and worst classes in Arena PVP, and you're just silly if you want to argue with that. That said, there's no reason to rant and rave and complain about ANY changes to ANY classes until they're in final release phase and we know everyone's talent trees and such.

There's still a lot out there to figure out but I'm thinking it looks good at the moment.

Hunter's used to be hard to play well before Burning Crusade (and without raid gear, a Hunter crit my 60 Rogue for 2800 damage in full Nax gear) as they were vulnerable to CC, couldn't trap in combat(without a bugged macro) and had a deadzone.

Since BC, they have recieved:

Immunity to CC through BM line.
Silence through Marks line.
Dispel via Arcane shot.
Removed deadzone.
Welfare twohanders via arena. <- Not really a class thing, but still. Yay handouts.
Mortal Strike via Marks.
Pet heal is no longer channeled.
Traps in combat.

With the exception of LoS in arenas, a Hunter can basically go "Big Red" and stand in one place dishing out damage, removing buffs, and cutting healing by 50%. Not to mention that a Hunter can easily break 2k crits with Raptor Strike in melee on leather/clothies. Most classes have to at least make an attempt at positioning. Any Hunter can be "Dur dur shoot arrow" and be successful.

Not that Hunters are OP, but I really dont think they needed all of those improvements.
Deadzone? Sure. Pet heal improvement? No problem. When it started being stupid was stacking a bunch of other stuff they didnt need. Instead of the Mortal Strike/Arcane Shot dispell give em' a shot that goes around corners called "Miracle Shot" or something. That way you change the mechanic instead of "Aww pillars make you bad in arena? Here, have abilities from 4 other classes."

[Reese]

Apokx, I think you have a few misconceptions about Hunters. BM is the worst Arena tree. You're giving 30% of your damage to a zero Resilience 6k HP pet and all you're getting is 18 seconds of CC immunity every 2 minutes. BM hunters rely heavily on Steady shot to DPS which requires them to stand still and shoot uninterrupted which is impossible to do in arena. With No Pushback protection, even attempting a steady shot is going to get you killed.

The only way my hunter is critting anything for 2800 is full raid buffed and target debuffed is a trinketted Aimed shot which is impossible to do on a rogue because he's either invisible or behind me shivving me with crippling poison. I'm BM with only 2piece T6 though, I guess it could be possible for a buffed MM hunter. I'd have to check my friend's MM hunter's WWS report to see what he's critting for raid buffed.

LOS in arena actually helps good Hunters. Only bad hunters are complaining about LOS issues because they want to do what they do in PVE and that is stand still, use their highest DPS shot rotation to burn the other guy down. They PVP as BM and complain on the forums the first time a rogue vanishes the entire duration of their Bestial wrath.

Arcane Dispel was a band-aid fix. It wasn't well thought out and now mages and Locks are getting their shields turned into physical buffs to counteract it. Can't explain that buff..

Mortal Strike was kind of needed because we just don't have the burst damage to bring down a healer. It's very hard to use. It's vulnerable to spell pushback and has a 3.5 second cast which means it's use is very limited. I'd definitely prefer is it was an Instant cast, no damage 50% healing reduction shot.

As for Traps in combat, You do know that every class can see traps now right? They used to be invisible and have quite a large range. Now you can see then and be nearly on top of them before they'll trigger. Not to mention there's a hidden 2 second cast timer. I was playing my warrior today and this hunter placed a trap and I ran around it without triggering it for over 30 seconds before some other warrior charged in and hit it. I had a good chuckle :)

Welfare 2hander, It's no more of an upgrade from Legacy than the PVP throwing axe/wand was compared to whatever wand/throwing axe people used. Being that it's only 3.0 speed you're not even getting good raptor strike crits from it. Heck, for serious Arena Two 1handers with 30int each are better anyways. Well, We get those "free" in Season 4 too.. Combined stats aren't as good as S3 Axe though, Just get 2x 30int buffs.

The difference between a good hunter and a great hunter is hundreds of DPS. You'll consistently see the best hunter on top of the DMG charts in raids and you'll see the not so great hunters pushing around 6-8th even through gear is roughly equal. I don't think removing the the interrupt from steady is going to make hunters easier. We already spam 1 button for our DPS. It's is increasing out damage done which sounds good but considering this is Alpha in WOTLK it means nothing because everything is due to be rebalanced. It removes the haste cap and it removes latency as a variable.

In PVE everyone has 1 button they spam. Raiding isn't about maximizing or working in complex damage dealing rotations anymore. It's about not standing in fire, and doing whatever gimmick that you're supposed to do in a fight. There are few DPS races in TBC.

In PVP, Hunters are one of the hardest to learn classes simply because our role is not the same are our PVE role. In PVP we must play defensively and we MUST play with a healer if we're expected to make it high in the arena. Like I said before, We cannot burn classes down especially in an arena environment. We win by outlasting. We have a bunch of cool tricks like Scatter shot and silencing shot but after you use them, you just can't burn anything down before they're broken and they get a heal off. We almost have to rely on our sub-par mana drain if we wanna get past 1600 rating.

I didn't play a hunter much pre-bc but it really didn't seem that much harder, just keeping shots on cooldown and actually being able to weave an aimed shot between auto shots.. lol.. Now Aimed resets the autoshot timer so shooting in a shot rotation is BAD.

Wow.. That's alot of text. Please keep in mind none of this was flaming your opinions about hunters or anything like that, I was just trying to explain hunters to you from my point of view. This isn't the WOW forums ya know :)

[Frosstbyte]

To be fair, neither dispel nor aimed having an MS effect nor deadzone removal were things any hunters asked for, and none of them really have anything to do with our arena problems. Cybermike outlined it pretty well above, and you're absolutely insane if you think BM is a good arena pvp spec. It works pretty well in BGs, certainly, but it's a death wish in anything above 1600 arena.

The problem with hunters is we have to play with healers and we have to drain to be successful, which leads to long, unfun fights with lots of running around like an idiot and micromanaging drinking and your pet. We're poorly represented above 1800 in all sizes of arena and, given how much attention blizzard is giving arenas, it'd be nice to have a shot at them without dealing with that garbage.

[Reese]

Deadzone removal was possibly our most useful and deserved PVP buff.

and.. Frostbyte you mean you don't like those 25+ minute 2v2s? Takes hours just to get 10 games in...

[Shauk]

Originally Posted by Apokx

If you ever feel like stepping up and being part of the big boy discussion, feel free. This isn't the wow forums, so that "QQ arena is welfare epics" elitist bullshit isn't going to fly. I actually took you off my ignored posters list thinking you were going to provide examples of why you think PvE is so much harder and impressive than PvP.

Originally Posted by Apokx

Welfare twohanders via arena. <- Not really a class thing, but still. Yay handouts.

heh, and to think you gave me shit for complaining.

turns out you're agreeing with me

[Apokx]

Originally Posted by Frosstbyte

To be fair, neither dispel nor aimed having an MS effect nor deadzone removal were things any hunters asked for, and none of them really have anything to do with our arena problems. Cybermike outlined it pretty well above, and you're absolutely insane if you think BM is a good arena pvp spec. It works pretty well in BGs, certainly, but it's a death wish in anything above 1600 arena.

The problem with hunters is we have to play with healers and we have to drain to be successful, which leads to long, unfun fights with lots of running around like an idiot and micromanaging drinking and your pet. We're poorly represented above 1800 in all sizes of arena and, given how much attention blizzard is giving arenas, it'd be nice to have a shot at them without dealing with that garbage.

Uh, I'm pretty sure the Deadzone issue has been argued since...well, release. Not in this thread necessarily but on the WoW forums, definately. Dispel and MS I have personally never seen even suggested before they were given to Hunters, which was kind of my point. Instead of slightly tweaking what you had, and making sense, they just grabbed a handful of abilities and threw it to you. However I'd take the "handful of legos" approach instead of being stagnant for the entire expansion (Hello Holy Paladins).
As far as being under-represented, you can easily say that about several classes, like Paladins, Enhancement Shaman/Ele Shaman and Balance/Feral Druids just depending on the bracket and spec I suppose.

(Mike, the 2800 crit was before Burning Crusade. It was an aimed shot crit for 2800 followed by an auto-shot for 1800. I think my Rogue had maybe 4k hp back then with the Warlord PVP stuff. Hunter was using all Nax stuff I believe. The number is accurate though because it was a real "What the fucking fuck" moment for me.)

Like I said before, Hunters aren't OP, but they shouldnt have so many varied class mechanics. They should have kept the same theme of ranged damage without the secondary effects.

Side note:

Things in Alpha are subject to change, true, but just because its an Alpha doesent mean they wont make it to live. I really hope

# Sudden Death (new) - Your melee critical hits have a 10%/20/30% chance of allowing the use of Execute regardless of the target's health state.

...never sees the light of day.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by Apokx

Things in Alpha are subject to change, true, but just because its an Alpha doesent mean they wont make it to live. I really hope

# Sudden Death (new) - Your melee critical hits have a 10%/20/30% chance of allowing the use of Execute regardless of the target's health state.

...never sees the light of day.

That would be really overpowered I think.

I'm waiting to see what they do for Paladins and Priests DPS wise before I roll a Death Knight as my main. I've quit for now, and I got tired of healing. So if I come back for WotLK I want to play DPS. Hopefully Blizz gives Retribution and Shadow some love once this is finally released.

[Reese]

Oh, I didn't doubt your numbers. I was just stating that Hunter's Burst damage is no where near what it was pre-bc especially considering we're 10 levels higher.

Hunters are under-represented in EVERY bracket. Paladins are only under-represented in 2v2. Druids and Shamans do have talent specs that not only make them really good for PVP, but also makes them desired as team mates. You won't see any serious team spamming LF hunter.

[Shauk]

I love the concept of a druid, but both races that can be druids just irritate me to no end. Though if I had to pick, Tauren beat the shit out of N. Elves any day.

[Apokx]

Originally Posted by cybermike

Oh, I didn't doubt your numbers. I was just stating that Hunter's Burst damage is no where near what it was pre-bc especially considering we're 10 levels higher.

Hunters are under-represented in EVERY bracket. Paladins are only under-represented in 2v2. Druids and Shamans do have talent specs that not only make them really good for PVP, but also makes them desired as team mates. You won't see any serious team spamming LF hunter.

Paladins are rare in 2v2 and 3v3 above 17-1800. They find a spot in 5s simply because resto druids dont hold up so well there. Holy spec obviously, Ret would likely never find a 5s group and they enjoy the smaller brackets more anyway.

For Druids and Shaman, they each have two specs that dont show up that often, and even resto Shaman can be gibbed by a couple dps pretty easily.

Hunters and Paladins have yet to receieve their talent tree layouts for wotlk, so I guess
we will see where they end up.

[Shauk]

well I thought I'd share my l33tness

this is pre-tbc,



before i got my bwl/aq40 gear too :\





and v2.0




sold the account for 650$ and moved to seattle, still sitting on 2 accounts, one with a 69 lock and another with a 65 shaman.

I'm just bored with leveling

[Reaper0294]

Private servers own in WoW

[Apokx]

Beta signups for Lich King are open if you haven't heard. It's on the WoW main page.

Good luck guys.

[Scorps]

Betas make my cry so many damn glitches. I will wait this time around.

On a side note it has been said the last patch before FOTLK they will open the portal in SW and it will be to the SW Port, at least thats the rumor mill on Windrunner.

[Shauk]

I opted in for the beta on both of my accounts. those donkey punchers didn't even invite any of my active accounts last time around. however, they invited my roommate at the time who's account was cancelled.

clever ploy to suck him back in? fuck yes.
proper treatment of a paying customer? meh, I guess I'm not entitled, but fucking aye, at least i was paying for it.

they sent him 3 beta keys, and he sold them all. I don't know how in the hell, but he basically went "yeah thanks for the free 900$"

[Esoteric]

Lmfao, he sold the keys for $300 each? Jesus fucking Christ some people are pathetic. Why would anyone buy a beta key? This boggles my mind.

I opted in, but I doubt I'll get in. My account has been closed for about a month now, but WotLK is looking pretty good so it may bring me back.

[snowy]

My SO and I both opted in; it'd be interesting if one of us got in but the other didn't.

[Esoteric]

Originally Posted by onesnowyowl

My SO and I both opted in; it'd be interesting if one of us got in but the other didn't.

Well, if either of you get in be sure to give us some impressions.

[Reese]

Well, I'm done. Cya guys in WOTLK.

[Frosstbyte]

Wrath of the Lich King Beta is UP! Patch notes are here! Invites are out!

So did anyone get one? Anyone gotten to play in what will shortly become our new home?

Shamans and paladins got a TON of major changes in basic functionality. Blessings of salvation, light, protection and freedom were eliminated or changed into "hand" spells. A bunch of totems were fundamentally altered (windfury now a flat haste to melee).

I've been looking on MMO Champion and the new zones and dungeons look really cool. The new achievement system is kind of meh, but I guess I'll have to see what the rewards are. Alternative progression paths never hurt, and it's something to work on if you're fed up with the normal activities of playing.

In case you haven't seen it you can check out the info at either:
www.worldofraids.com OR
www.mmo-champion.com

Enjoy.

[Shauk]

no invite here :\

[Crack]

me either

[CyCo PL]

No invite... I got my hopes up cause I was in original WoW beta, but I've unsubscribed/resubscribed so many times since then. Anybody know if it's completely random?

[Reese]

No invite here either.

Oh well..

[Esoteric]

No invite for me either. QQ

Been looking at the DK talents and skills while at work and I'm starting to get excited about playing again. I just can't decide if I want to go Undead or Orc. I'm sure there's going to be a shitload of Undead DK's but Undead are just badass. Then again so are Orcs.

[Prophecy]

Originally Posted by CyCo PL

No invite... I got my hopes up cause I was in original WoW beta, but I've unsubscribed/resubscribed so many times since then. Anybody know if it's completely random?

An answer from Wrath of the Lich King Beta Opt-In FAQ

Originally Posted by Bornakk

Q: Will invites be sent on a first-come, first-served basis, or will invites be sent randomly?
A: Beta invitees will be selected randomly from the entire pool of players who have chosen to opt in. Signing up early doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll be invited sooner than someone who signs up after you.


A: Opt-in only puts you into a pool of people that we will be randomly selecting from and then inviting. You should not expect a "sorry you aren't in this phase of beta" email if that's what you are asking. Doing so would mean you're completely out of the selection pool and we fully intend to invite more people as we go through the process (as we need them). I can't predict for you how many people we will be inviting per phase nor can I tell you what the possibility of you being invited will be.

[CyCo PL]

Originally Posted by Esoteric

No invite for me either. QQ

Been looking at the DK talents and skills while at work and I'm starting to get excited about playing again. I just can't decide if I want to go Undead or Orc. I'm sure there's going to be a shitload of Undead DK's but Undead are just badass. Then again so are Orcs.

Yeah, I wish I could always be undead. Even on Alliance side. Their /dance is just too awesome.

[Apokx]

Afaik, US invites have not been sent yet. People who are downloading the client say there are 0 servers currently up. Press invites are slated to be released in the next few days aaaaaand I think they will announce the beta on the main page.


This taken from reading the beta/death knight/wrath wiki forums.

[Baraka_Guru]

Despite my last comments on my experience with WoW, I have now decided to take the leap into the world.

I had originally gone in with too many expectations on a particular style of gameplay that just isn't built into the environment and the culture. I shouldn't view WoW as a roleplaying experience anywhere near the mode that I play on NWN Cormyr; it just isn't meant for that.

What I do like about WoW is its grand scope, both geographically and socially. And all of this can be had in a casual manner. I don't have to attach myself to a particular experience; I can take or leave what I come across using my own prerogative. I can create experiences or join them on a whim, and I can leave them just as well. I simply need to view this as an experience based in actions and consequences rather than complex identities.

I don't know much about the potential yet, as I've barely scratched the surface during the trial, but I'm giving WoW its fair shot at winning my approval.

That said, I'm trying to join the Warsong server.

[Frosstbyte]

Everyone go join the WoW addicts social group! I know there are more than three of us.

[Shauk]

i'm on either darrowmere horde or kil'jaeden (either faction) both pvp servers *shrug* let me know if land on those servers

[Reese]

I joined the social group

I'm really looking forward to the hunter changes. I know some of my hunter friends are going to hate it because they're hardcore MM hunters that consider pets to be a burden though. It seems like a lot of focus is being put into pet skill management. Many long cooldown pet abilities that can't be just put on Auto-cast like Taunts, last stand, etc etc..
I just saw a video of the Explosive shot owning the entire SM Cath boss room. Should help us rush instances a little better

[ObieX]

If anyone is on Whisperwind (not likely.. but eh) my guild leader will be running a "PVP Day" On Saturday (july 25). 30,000g in prizes. You can get some gold by simply taking part and are flagged for pvp. Bunch of bonus stuff going on for extra gold like killing some enemy city bosses.

More info here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...03584910&sid=1

[Arandrul]

Medivh- Normal

Arandrul- 70 BM Hunter

Arandin- 70 Tankadin

Aranheal- 64 Shadow Priest.. Healer at 70

[Druidess]

I play on Malygos... I have a shaman named Cauchmar and a lock named Sinnful... Both are horde.

[sevin24]

Carp!! Wish I knew about this site 4 years ago when I started playing WoW...
Anyway... I play on Boulderfist
Got a 70 Rogue - Ivanja
62 Paladin - Anja
52 Lock - Dotyoutodeth

Working on 3 hunters. One to twink at 19. Others are just for experimenting...

[Crack]

So, I was in BT last night on my shammy, and a Soul Cleaver dropped (Soul Cleaver - Item - World of Warcraft)

I took it. I have always had a strange hard on for 2h enhancement, even though it fails in pretty much every way except for 1 shotting no resil clothies and rogues. Anyways, took it to a WSG that night. This was done in 4/5 T4 and some other shitty gear so yeah...

[ObieX]

Anyone else going to Blizzcon?

[beerguy]

Originally Posted by ObieX

Anyone else going to Blizzcon?

I missed the boat.

It is already sold out