Skutch

90 years old, on the brink of death.

She wants to go to discussion groups, listen to books on tape, but its too much for her. She's stubborn, says she wants to be out and about. Anyone have any ideas/activities etc to comfort her in her final days. I came up with massaging her hands, Im going to ask her that one...but I think she needs to stay in (nursing home, private apartment) instead of going out. thanks

abaya

We need a little more info on the situation before any advice can be given (keep in mind we aren't geriatric specialists here, btw!--have you spoken with her doctor about the topic?)... what is she dying of? Is it a debilitating disease, or is she still mobile? How long does she have to live? What kind of discussion groups/books does she want to go/listen to, and why is it "too much" for her?...

Personally, if I were dying, the last thing I would want would be to be cooped up in a house (if I were mobile)... if it were medically possible, I'd like to be out enjoying nature and people as much as I could until my last step. I think it would be a much greater comfort to me than a sanitized environment that felt foreign. What are her favorite things to do? Are there photo albums that you can look at together, to comfort her with old memories? Old music that she used to like? How about pets, does she like dogs or cats?

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genuinegirly

Might consider arranging book clubs to meet at her place. It would keep her in the house but also allow her to socialize and enjoy the company of her friends.

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Daniel_

It may sound harsh, but how about you take her out?

You've said she's dying already, why not let her go in her own way?


If she wants to get tanke up on cheap bourbon and ride a rllercoaster - by God you should help her to - she's not got long to do it all, so let her go with a bang!

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Skutch

She is dying of old age, doesn't have a terminal illness such as cancer, pneumonia etc. She goes to these discussion groups at the library, but after 30 minutes or so starts to get tired and loses track of the conversation. She talks about dying and the end being near constantly, very dark conversations which are hard to take. She doesn't especially like animals. Daniel_ thats the type of thing Im talking about...something that will just make her happy, period. I don't think she gets smashed, but maybe now might be a good time to remind her if she'd like to do that kind of thing.

noodle

Find a nice sun porch somewhere and watch the passers-by.
Have her record her thoughts for posterity, invite groups over for 20 minute "quickie" visits.
Keeping people "in" makes them antsy.

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Grancey

Contact your local Hospice foundation. They will be able to give you plenty of suggestions and ideas for your grandmother, and they will also offer suggestions and advice to you as well.

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Hyacinthe

Contact nearby nursing homes and ask to speak to there Occupational Therapist (if they have one) they should be able to help you find lots of things your grandmother can do.

Go to the local library and find books on tape with her or buy a few of her favourites so that she can listen to them whenever she wants.

Most importantly Skutch - if she wants to go out let her. Unless she is suffering from severe loss of her mental faculties she understands the risks that she is running and is choosing to do her activities and trying to get on with her life anyway. Really you've got no right to stop her same as if your parents suddenly told you you have to be in bed by 9 and are only allowed to go out with their permission.

Now one other question what makes you think your Grandmother is dying? Many elderly people talk about the end being near, that doesn't mean they're dying. Does your Graondmother have any underlying health problems that are getting worse? Has her Dr given her a time frame for death? People don't just die due to age and I personally know some 90 + people who are still extremely capable of doing whatever they may choose.

Make sure you're treating your Grandmother as a person plain and simple not an "old person" because that's how you think she should act.

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raeanna74

My Grandpa is 92 and very active. If we were to try to keep him cooped up he'd give up on living too quickly. When he is able he goes places on his own. When he's not feeling as well, arthritic, or feeling weaker my Mom does a lot of things with him. He has a few friends that he gets together with on a weekly basis for coffee, he goes to other friends homes and visits, or he goes to the nursing home to visit some of his older friends. He's involved in the church and every fall makes dozens of fall floral arrangements for the Church's Thanksgiving dinner. People from church or my mother often bring him the supplies for that project.
For your Grandmother personally, Acknowledge her feelings of an impending end but remind her that she can control how she goes and possibly postpone it with an active, positive attitude. Grandpa has expressed some longing to move on and being with Grandma (now passed 10 years ago) but when we talked about it I tried to direct the conversation to end on a more positive note. We began to reminice about her and remember her at her strongest. By the end of our conversation he was thinking about how much more he was still able to do and being glad for it.
What kinds of things does your Grandma like to do? Besides the library group that is. If she likes anything crafty you could make sure to keep her supplied so that she can make things for others. One thing that discourages anyone is feeling useless. If your able to contribute, even by chearing someone up with a gift of cookies or something, it helps you feel needed too. She could just be feeling like a burden or unnecessary. Make her feel needed.
As long as she is able to go places and do things without injuring herself, let her do it and help her do it. If she gets tired at the library offer to take her home whenEVER she is ready to go. Everything that she tries to do keeps her stronger and her mind more alert. When she does go it won't be as long, debilitating, depressing or withering.
I'm going to echo GRANCEY, contact Hospice Services, Elderly Services, etc. There are MANY things designed to help get the elderly out and about and give them something fun to do. There is Elder Day care where they have craft activities, poker games, bingo, polka, music, singing, and conversation. There are so many things. Do some searches online for Elder Care assistance in your area. Or try calling 211 (if you have it) for information on services in your area.
Whatever you do, encourage her to stay active and Listen to what she wants and needs.

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JStrider

dude let her go out or help her go out be there to support her in enjoying life, dont force her to be a shut in.

In the past year I have lost both of my grandmothers, both great strong women.

one had cancer for the past 5 or 6 years. The week before she died she wanted to mow their couple acres of property. so we got the riding mower out, helped her get on it and let her mow the lawn... it was probably one of the last things she did before she became completely bed ridden.

The other had a fall and broke her neck, but didn't realize it, and waited a week before going to the hospital. but in that week my grampa was helping her do all the routine things she enjoyed. right before going to the hospital she went and filmed an episode of her local access cable channel show, she quickly went downhill after that and died a few days later.

I would have helped them do pretty much anything to help them enjoy their final days

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Ayashe

She is old, not dying from what you say. Has it occurred to you that she is depressed? You know it is hard getting old, your friends dying off, your spouse is gone, you are left requiring assistance to get to the grocery store etc. Most of these people hate asking for simple things like a trip to the beauty parlor, I have patients who haven't been on a shopping trip in many many years because they feel they are already asking so much of their family just in having rides to their doctors, ophthalmologist, etc. I would bet that for about 50% (likely more than that)of my elderly patients the only time they leave the house is related to their health care.

She says she wants to get out.. so take her out. She may be more vulnerable to infections etc, but what sort of life is it to sit in your chair at home all day? I have one blind patient who recently celebrated his 100th birthday at a roller rink, and yes.. he did skate. I bet she would be absolutely tickled if someone would only take her out for a cup of coffee or piece of pie now and then. In my experience, a phone call, letter, a short visit or greeting card really makes a big difference in the elderly.

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abaya

Sorry to be blunt here, but after reading further I'm getting the impression that this is a bit more about your fears than it is about her needs. Hell, I'd talk about my end days all the time too, if I were 90 and being cooped up inside a house. Would damn near drive me insane, and most definitely depressed.

Once again, not a geriontologist here, but I don't think someone is on the "brink of death" just because they're really old and frail. 90 is old, sure, but people who "die of old age" aren't suffering from a disease... as long as they are mobile and have some of their wits about them, they're not dead yet. Until she actually gets to the point of being bedridden and/or completely mentally gone, there is absolutely no reason to diagnose her as being "on her deathbed" or somehow in need of being cooped up inside. My 2 cents.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Slims

You said she's dying, right? Then what's the problem, let her try to live her life to the fullest extent possible, so what if being happy kills her a few days earlier.

Skutch: Do you ever do anything exciting or interesting that is not strictly in your best interests as far as longevity is concerned? Is it worth it?

My father has a boat that is his pride and joy. It is almost too much for him to handle now, as he is getting on in years and is already handicapped. I hope that one day he dies on it, as it will mean he kept doing the things he loved until the very end. I can't imagine forcing him to sit in a bed and not squeeze every last drop of experience possible out of life.

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grumpyolddude

(preamble: This hits home. Hard. Today is one month since mom passed away. I will try to remain civil.)

Skutch, is there any reason, other than age and lack of stamina that makes you believe that your grandmother is "dying?" Others have asked, but you don't have to answer us. You must answer this to yourself, seriously.

What's grandmother's living condition? Is she in a nursing home? Assisted living? With a relative? Does she have the freedom to come and go as she pleases, or can arrange an escort for? Does she spend extended periods of time alone and/or inactive? How often is she with friends and family?

Your grandmother needs the things that every person needs. She needs to spend time with people she loves and who love being with her. She needs to be doing and sharing the things that bring her joy. She needs to feel needed, stimulated, cherished and respected. She needs to believe that her life still has purpose.

So what if she gets a little tired? Let her take a catnap. Her friends will understand and accept. Do things in smaller doses, or plan breaks. Enlist other family members to take part in outings, if only for lunch, or to a park.

These last four years of my mother's life were fully packed, even as she slowed down. There were ballgames, dance recitals, trips to the casino, weddings... and funerals, birthday parties, luncheons, and on and on...

Mother was fortunate. There were many of us to share time with her, and she was able to live semi-independently, although we never had to leave her alone. I hope things can be as good for your grandmother.

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Skutch

goddammit I just typed out responses and thank yous to each and every person who was kind enough to reply, and my computer crashed and I lost the post.

Ill just say this becasue its late and im exhausted now after that long now gone post: no one is trying to keep her from doing the things she wants to do, she is simply unable to physically do them anymore. She gets mad at herself because she can't stay with the conversations at the library current events group, she doesn't have the patience to socialize with the others at the nursing home, she says all they talk about is getting old. Her mind is sharp as a pin, its her body thats crumbling around her. She says she feels weak, not in pain, just physically weak..."fading away" she says. Her eyes have lost their spark as of just a few days ago. This is a strong, proud independent woman who raised 5 boys and got her masters in anthropology at age 61. But she is going, theres no doubt about it, and I appreciate all the responses and suggestions I will pass them on to the rest of the family as well. I think I will read her this thread as well, I think a lot of you would get along with her just fine. thanks.

girldetective

When my dad was actively dying, I arrived at my parents house to hear my dad ask to go outside on the porch. I asked my mom about that and she said she didnt want him going outside as she was afraid he would catch cold. I suggested we could bundled him up, but no. So my dad didnt go outside again, until he went into the hospice facility where I stayed with him. One sunny afternoon my sister and I bundled up dad and wheeled him out into the fresh air, ensuring he had a splendid view of his mountains.

As we were expounding about the mountains, we realized he was squinting and it was too sunny for him so I put my sunglasses on him. After a minute or two we noticed he was shivering and asked if he was cold. He nodded. Poor dad. We went inside after about 4 minutes. It had taken about 30 to get him bundled up, which took a lot out of him. I dont think he enjoyed it as much as hed hoped. I think the thought and anticipation, and the idea of freedom and choice were what was driving him more than the fresh air.

I believe dying people have things on their minds that we healthy ones dont. I believe theyre coping with things that make it hard to enjoy things as they used to. I believe often their attention is on their bodies, particularly if there is pain or medication or atrophy or shakes, or shivers. Lack of control and choice in their lives.

My advice to you, Skutch, like others have mentioned, is to bring the outside into her. I think it is the news, the world, the memories that are important to your grandmother. Certainly she may like to have the newspaper daily. If she cant read it, perhaps you could read it to her. It would pass the time, give her company, give her the opportunity to debate and you to learn about her, and so forth. You know, the good stuff.

You could make her a cup of tea, or a martini, while reading. You could have one, too.

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spindles

This is also a topic close to home for me. Both my grandmothers are getting on (Dad's mum (Nan) just turned 97, Mum's mum (Granny) is 90 I think). They are quite contrasting. Nan lives in a nursing home - she has here own room, with a TV, but all meals are provided in a dining room for those able to get there. Her biggest problems are

1. mobility. She can walk with a walking frame, but can't go any great distance.
2. sight. She can no longer read, which was a great joy to her, and even though her TV is ginormous, she really can't see it very well
3. hearing. She has worn a hearing aid for 30 years or so. The issue now is that if there is more than one person talking, she just hears a cacophony. This means one on one is good, more than 2 people is useless.

My parents live quite close to where she is (specifically chose the place because of their proximity) and this means she gets out quite a bit, even if it is only to their place for a cuppa. I'm not sure it is much, but her situation is such that there is not much else to give.

Granny, on the other hand, still has a driver license, lives in her own home and is fairly independent. Again, my parents mow her lawn and get calls for any kind of maintenance things, but she is still able to get around by herself. Her eyesight is also going, and I don't think she'll keep her license to drive next year. That is when the 'fun' will start as this will severely restrict what she can do by herself. Hopefully her children (three of whom live quite close, including my mum) will make sure that she stays mobile.

Bottom line is you need to take into account that they are slower/get tired easily/lose focus, and try to do things that fit that criteria.

It partly reminds me what it is like to have a toddler - you don't go on any roller coasters, you spend ages dressing them appropriately for conditions and you only get to stay out for a small period of time. You've just got to help them make the most of those short trips outside.

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