The_Dude

nice one

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madsenj37

As long as your not a gamer, a Mac can do everything a PC can (Macs can game, no one makes games, thats all). They tend to last longer and require less maintence. they are even competetively priced if you want a laptop. Consider the value it will have versus teh initial price. Apple has a lot of cool applications taht are included in teh initial price.

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"Only two things are certain: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not certain about the universe."
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millerpc40

Mac's - you either hate them or love them.....

THE MAC GOD

I grew up using Macs. In school, I used PC's. In college, I used my own Mac and worked on PC's at work. I was an ITS technician. After working with comps for 16 years, I have to say that the overall experience is definitely better on a Mac. A lot of criticism that the Mac evokes are from its OS9 days. OSX has fixed most, if not all of it. It is the most stable OS (Built on BSD) and is so easy and intuitive, its insane. Also, the suite of software that comes with it is amazing... iTunes for music, iMovie for digital video editing, iPhoto for picture collections and output, and iDVD for out of the box DVD authoring (and seemlessly integrates the previous three so you can use stuff from those apps). Yes apple WAS behind the curve on MHZ, but not anymore. With the G5, we've at LEAST caught up and in some areas surpassed most PC's in the speed area. Yes, for the 'high end' it costs 3000. But, a similarly configured pc is more. (look at the high end Dells and match them to the G5's specs). And Apple only uses high quality components which is why (study after study shows this) Apples last longer and stay more relevant as a usable computer (as OSes evolve... I am running OSX Jaguar SERVER on my 233mhz Original Bondi Blue iMac -the first imac in 98- quite decently). I don't dislike PCs, but I dislike people who use PC's who bash the Mac for no REAL reason-especially since none of them have used one (or used one lately, which is a totally different experience than the Mac of old). If you have problems deciding, go to an Apple store... take a day and just go and enjoy yourself. The stores are quite amazing. Anyway, another thing is the software. Yes there is a huge amount of software available for the PC. But, look at ratios... there HAS to be... its 95% of the market! I look at it this way. I compare the PCs software to the Ocean... its HUGE, but it is full of pollutants... a lot of the software sucks major ass leaving only a few really good programs that you can use. Well, on the Mac, we get those REALLY good programs. We are a *small* yet pure water oasis. All of our programs are usually ports of the best. Microsoft, BY ITS OWN ADMISSION, says that Office for the Mac is better than the windows version. Any real program on the PC you want, either there is a Mac port/version, or there is another program that does the same thing. All this goes for the games. I love games, but on the Mac platform, they aren't like the PC one. I only get the best selling games and the best overall games from the PC side, like Max Payne, Deus Ex, Warcraft 3 (actually EVERY blizzard game made), THPS, all the Sims games, going to get DNF, MP2, etc. We never got 'Paintball extreme' because there was no need. Anyway, these are my observations growing up in both worlds... I ended up staying mostly on the Mac side because I just enjoy it much more. And if there is a game that I absolutely need to play that's not on the Mac, I just go hijack Threeleggedfrog's computer to do it. Anyway, good luck and I hope I haven't convoluted your question too much. I just let my mind write.

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Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

THE MAC GOD

Oh and if Apple REALLY was as terrible as everyone seems to think, then you wouldn't be using FIREWIRE, you probably wouldn't be using USB (yeah we didn't make this one, but we pushed it so hard that people thought we were crazy for doing so), Apple wouldn't keep winning Technical awards and GRAMMY's for their wizardry! PC magazines wouldn't use them for designing and layout for their mags...Pixar wouldn't be thinking about porting their RENDERMAN program just to the G5... PC reviews *wouldn't* review the G4 laptop as the best laptop in the buisness... etc...

Just thought I'd throw in some controversy now.

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Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

bermuDa

*cough* pixar is owned by steve jobs

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philzilla

this poll is pointless.

Wax_off

Interesting how there aren't a bunch of PC fanatics posting here. The poll is being run by the Mac fanatics.

Actually the tone seems to be much more pleasant than these things usually are. Very little name calling. What's going on??? People who have used both platforms saying which one they like best without insults? Expousing the idea that PC's are probably better for some things and Macs are better at others? Peace in the PC world? Pigs are flying out of my ass.

Dredd2099

mac = photoshop, vid editing and the likes
pc = games, gadgets,reboot, games,reboot, software,reboot, games, reboot, overall usage

=)

Konichiwaneko

I'll just say this...I have never seen a mac as a server.

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bermuDa

i have! they make great coffee tables

and i prefer my PC for photoshop, it helps when your mouse has more than one function.

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cheerios

/me hands bermuda her 5 button Kensington optical offof her iMac. WITH programmable buttons per application. nicely integerated into system preferences. :P

hey Wax Off, I hear some Preperation H can really help with those pigs...

everyone else: thanks for keeping it civil! makes life easier for us, not to have to fwap y'all upside the head.

bermuDa

muahaha i'll keep my mx700 with 7 buttons and 10 functions, thx for the offer though

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philzilla

open your eyes (and your mind)

as used for www.camwhores.com, and many other sites you may know of: Apple Xserve

Konichiwaneko

my eyes are open and I see a lcd screen and some cereal.

That's pretty neat....how much does it cost over traditionally servers?

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charliex

USB apple ? HUH ? USB was invented by compaq, DEC, microsoft, and NEC in 1993. I suppose those PCI slots that are so popular are apple too Firewire was a joint development by texas instruments and apple, initiated by apple, adpoted in windows 98, windows 2000 and OS 8. If anything its the video makers that have brought wide spread firewire usage, sony , matsushita etc, after all the firewire board is practically all video OEMs

Macs are good for audio work they typically have considerably much less latency than PC's, which is why they are popular in studios, though PCs can be made in such a way the software is heavily developed and people don't like to switch especially since a lot of it is rack mounted.

THE MAC GOD

I never said they invented USB... they just made it the standard... with the 98 233 Bondi Blue iMac (from which I currently am typing)

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Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

THE MAC GOD

Also, thanks for keeping it civil...

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Why continue fighting? Is it for Love? Illusions. All as artificial as the Matrix itself, although only a human mind could invent something as insipid as Love.

Pedialyte

PC.

hulk

Woah, that was the most constructive comment I've seen on these boards [/sarcasm]

=)

I've had, over the years, 8 macs and 4 Windows PC's. I first switched to mac after the second PC we got refused to start up. Right now, I have a G4/400 and a P4/1.4 Ghz Laptop. The only time I use the laptop is for games which are not on the mac, and if I need to use Publisher for work. My 4 year old mac is generally snappier (with OS9 =)) than the 1 year old Pentium.

Macs, especially with OSX, are absolutely beaut with anything other than playing the newest games, not because they can't run them, rather because publishers seem to think that 20 MILLION people is a small userbase.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

shakran

I would never buy an Apple. They have a LONG history of promoting something, and then abandoning it so it becomes useless. the IIGS is a classic example. Buy the IIGS! It's the best of both the Apple 2 and the mac worlds! It'll be REALLY useful! And yeah, it was an awesome computer (for its day), but there was precious little software written for it, so it whey reas largely useless. Mine wound up being nothing more than an overpriced Apple IIe, because most of the programs I had would have run just fine on one of those.

Their interface is miserable. They still rely on single button mice - WTF? you have so much more flexibility with multiple buttons.

You void the warranty if you open the case. Again, WTF? You buy a computer that you can't ever upgrade unless you take it to - you guessed it - Apple and pay them a lot of money to do the install.

They rely too much on whizbang looking cases and fancy little touches (power eject floppy drives) that do nothing to add to the utility of the machine. They figure people will buy their machines not because they're better (they aren't) or have more software (fat chance) but because they look cool (they're ugly.)

Don't get me wrong, the Mac had it's day. Back in the days of the Mac Plus, Mac SE/SE-30, and Mac Classic 1 and 2, the things were awesome - if you needed them for graphic design / word processing, or other business needs. In those days, I used macs exclusively when writing, and especially laying out, documents. Now, however, the PC has caught up to the mac. Even though there is still a myth out there that macs are better at graphics (not necessarilly, depends on what video card they're up against on the PC side) the PC's have decidedly caught up to and surpassed macs in overall utility. They can edit photos and video with the best of them (I note that AVID uses PC's, not Macs for their video editing systems), they're just as fast (and in some cases faster), they have a lot more software, both games and productivity, AND you can buy that software in stores. The choice is pretty clear to me.



That said I'd love to have a Mac SE-30 just for nostalgia purposes.

terit

Oh geez, here we go... the ol' one button mouse argument. I was wondering when this one would come up. Pretty much any style of a usb mouse that you could buy for windows, you can get for a mac. Yes, mine has 5 buttons and a scroller... and you know what? If I were to have gotten a mouse with two buttons, I still would have left it in the box and purchased a better one.

I mean, have you ever really looked at the quality of mice that come standard with a Windows PC? Yeah, they have two buttons and a scroller, but really, are they of such superb quality that they could become one of your primary reasons for buying the computer? I mean, really, honestly, how many skilled computer users actually use the mouse that their computer came with?

The reason that Apples still come with a one button mouse is because their OS interface is designed to be used with a one button mouse, and they see it as proving a point. Granted, I don't like using a one-button mouse, but for the basic users, research done by Apple tends towards making the interaction with the computer easier. And again, lets face it, an advanced user would buy a different mouse no matter what his computer came with.

And to be even more specific, as of OS X, left and right buttons and scroller wheels are supported as part of the OS without the need for additional software. Additional buttons and special options are accessed through extentions from the mouse manufacturer.

As for your claim of opening the case voiding the warranty, you are just plain wrong. In fact, I have a copy of an Apple warranty right here. Here is the important lines for you:

That would be "damage cause by", so, yes, if you open up your machine and force a card in backwards and it breaks something, the warranty doesn't cover it. Did you really think it would? Jesus, man, Apples have a latch on the side that you pull on and they flip right open. Anyone can do it... even when they are running. Look, I'll do it right now.... see, I'm still writing this post and I can feel how hot my ram is at the same time. No warranties voided here! The simple latches were introduced in 1999... but since you don't have data past the 1980s to draw on, I can see how you would miss that one.

And FYI, there are Mac versions of Avid software, not that you would ever want to use it over Apple's Final Cut Pro. Perhaps no one has informed you yet that for the vast majority of video production companies, Avid's are way way too expensive, especially given that very competitive software editing systems have come so far in the last few years... again, these are changes to technology in the RECENT past (say 3 years), so I would not expect you to have a clue about it. I know many many video companies that are selling their Avid systems to move to Final Cut and other more reasonably priced options... we're talking thousands vs. tens of thousands of dollars.

I buy my software at CompUSA... that would be a store, a national chain even. Of course, I don't think they were around in the 1980s, so you will have probably never heard of them. And here's another news flash for you: Apple itself has stores all over the country!

Really, man, if you wouldn't mind, get your facts right before your vomit crap out of your mouth.

Konichiwaneko

Oh yes I have to get a mac because how nice and informative Mac users like Terit are.

The thing with mac pretty cases...they aren't unique. They still come off an assembly line.

Plus you get mocked for bringing a mac to a lan party

All in all mac has it's uses, but as long as their's super rabid mac users...I'm not going there.

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shakran

OK, Terit, first off I never said you couldn't get a multi-button mouse for the mac. Second, Final Cut is not under any circumstances for any reason better than Avid. FC is a great video editor, but it's chief competitor is Premiere, NOT Avid because Avid isn't even in the same ballpark as those two play in. There is a version of AVID for mac, yes I know that, but the system of choice for Avid Media Composer is a win2000 machine. Regarding Avid vs FC, here's a small example. 56 movie trailers have been nominated for the Key Art Awards. 42 of them were edited on Avid. Only 14 were on FC. Just a small example of the simple fact that the editor of choice in the industry is Avid.

The plain and simple fact is that macs, while they're good machines, are designed for ease-of-use first and utilization-of-their-full-power second. Frankly, I think that's great. Makes my life a lot easier when computer novices are on macs 'cause I don't have to provide as much tech support. Once you gain more knowledge and start wanting more choices in software (yes I know that the reason there's so much software for the PC is because there are more PC users. That's obvious.) then the PC is the way to go.

Regarding the warranty. Yeah, and if you upgrade it and something breaks, you don't think they'll blame the upgrade? Been there, done that.


"I buy my software at CompUSA... that would be a store, a national chain even. Of course, I don't think they were around in the 1980s, so you will have probably never heard of them."

Sure I've heard of them. I'm quite underwhelmed by them. Not much of a selection, and their prices are sky high compared to other retailers.

"And here's another news flash for you: Apple itself has stores all over the country!"

Wow! Really? Yeah, I knew that too. Gateway has stores too. Yugos had dealerships. Doesn't mean I'd buy a Gateway or a Yugo either. Apple can have all the stores it wants, but with far fewer titles being WRITTEN for the Mac, it doesnt' matter because they can't SELL software that doesn't exist.

BTW, where do you get this idea that I'm living in the 80's? Or are you just being rude?

"And again, lets face it, an advanced user would buy a different mouse no matter what his computer came with."

An advanced user would build his own machine with the parts HE specifies to best suit him. Therefore, his computer would come with the best mouse for him. BTW, you can get perfectly good mice with prebuilt PC's.

"The reason that Apples still come with a one button mouse is because their OS interface is designed to be used with a one button mouse, "

Yes, and that's a handicap. It's designed for the lowest common denominator. That's like saying "well my car only has 25 horsepower because it's designed to be used by beginning drivers as well as advanced. If you want to become an advanced driver, put a new engine in the car." I wouldn't buy a Mac because I don't want a computer that's designed to cater to the less computer-savvy people at the expense of utility for the power users.

You never did address Apple's abandonment of technology at the expense of their customer base. Apple has a long history of ignoring what its customers really want in favor of the technology THEY want to make. The IIgs example I gave is a perfect case-in-point. Most home users wanted the Apple II family to continue - it had all the games and was the computer of choice for a family machine at the time. Apple chose to ignore this fact and instead promote the Mac. This permanently pissed off legions of Apple II users and led to the Apple taking a significant back seat to the PC in the home computer market - a downfall from which the company still has not recovered. I find it interesting that the best selling peripheral for the Macintosh LC was the Apple IIe card. Surely a company who listens to and is responsive to their customers desires would have had the sense to see that their customers wanted Apple II's. Apple is clearly not such a company. I prefer to buy products from companies that care about what their customers want rather than forcing what they think the customers should have down the customers' collective throats.

cheerios

keep it civil boys, or i lock it...

terit

You're original claim was that there were NO stores. That is completely false. Fewer stores would have been accurate.

My point about editing systems is that many people find FCP to be a perfectly acceptible option given that it is tens of thousands of dollars less expensive. Again, the Avid example you gave was a broad generality. I do not argue that FCP is better or even equal to something that is tens of thousands of dollars more expensive. There are many more exclusive software packages that run on all sorts of OS's. It seems to me that pulling out one example from one small type of software that is far out of the range of budget for the vast majority of video production companies cannot be considered relavent proof for anything. There are a whole list of professional software applications that I could list on the mac that do not exist on windows. Does that mean mac is better because of them? Well, just like everything else, it really depends upon your need.

The mouse argument is an old one that comes up every time the mac vs. pc thing is brought up. It is tiring. I know many basic mac users that are perfectly happy with a one button mouse. I wasn't, so I got a different one. It just seems like such a non-reason to base the decision of what computer you would like to buy. Your comparison to the size of engine you get is poorly chosen. The mouse is not the engine to the computer. This is more like getting the option of leather or buttons for your radio on the steering wheel -- important to some people, but not to others.

Again, your claim about the warranty was simply completely false. If you open the case, you do not void the warranty. Don't make stuff up and then expect people to not call you out on it.

As for your argument of them abandoning technology, you are referring to a computer that was out from 1986 - 1992. In technology years, that is ancient history. You know what I was using then? An Amiga -- a computer that, for its day was a wonderful machine. Commadore went out of business, but that doesn't mean that I am jaded because a computer I loved 13 years ago is no longer around.

Again, I don't think your reasoning holds up in today's world. Windows 3.x wasn't even around when the IIGS came out. How can you think that such an example could be used to compare macs to windows? It is common knowledge that Apple went through some pretty tough times in the 90s. The things they are coming out now with are built under completely new leadership, on completely new technology, and in a completely different time. There is simply no parallels that can be drawn from your example to provide any useful commentary on the current state of Apple.

Macs are not the right choice for everyone. They are not the right choice for you. But don't think that you can write clearly inaccurate statements and FUD and not be called out on it.

bermuDa

it's been always been a pissing contest... I've been bill gates' whore since m$ dos... not that i ever paid for any operating systems.

It's what I'm used to and it's what I'm happy with... I think we can all say that about our favorite computing platform. But I do love arguments like these, just remember duels are for gentlemen

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Konichiwaneko

This is one reason why I wouldn't buy a mac over a pc

http://news.com.com/2100-1046_3-1023167.html?tag=fd_top

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shakran

Actually, when the apple II family was cut, Steve Jobs and Woz were in charge. Guess who's running apple now? Yep. Jobs is back.

if you wanna talk current examples of Mac vs PC, let's look at the layout of the operating systems. The mac has colored balls in the corner of the window which you press to close, minimize, maximize windows. That's great, until you get a color blind guy using it. Now he's screwed. Hit the red ball? Which one's the red ball? Windows on the other hand uses symbols - something few people couldn't interpret. X means close. the maximize icon looks like a maximized window. the minimize icon looks like a minimized window. Minimize something and it goes to the task bar. Not to the dropdown system menu, but the task bar. Click on the desk top and your application doesn't just disappear so you have to go pull it out of the system menu again. It stays right where it belongs. Don't get me wrong. Macs used to have it all over the PC in user interface (although I'm crotchety enough that I still like a good old fashioned command prompt). Win 3.11 was a vast improvement in PC interface over the previous ones, but it still sucked. Win 95 finally brought the interface up to the level of a mac (and this was met with a lot of derision amongst the PC crowd who still liked dos!) but its stability issues are well known. Now with Win2k, I'll put the OS up against the Mac OS any day of the week. As you pointed out, that's just my opinion.

Please note that I never said Macs are bad computers. The worst accusation I made was that Apple has been known to abandon technology suddenly and without warning. I simply said they cater to a different computer buyer than I, and frankly the majority of computer buyers, are.

EvilPoda

Fact 1: Mac's are crap
Fact 2: PC's are far better in every single aspect

That is all.

Sukitof

PC. For all the obvious reasons everyone knows.

Kyp

I know a guy who had an older iMac. He needed to upgrade it because the video card it had just wasn't cutting it. Lucky for him, he couldn't upgrade the card in the iMac he had, so he was forced to get a new computer.

He looked at the new iMacs, and then looked at PCs. He built a PC bout twice as fast as the iMac he would have bought, and it was about 3/4ths the cost.

PCs are cheaper, more customizable, and once you buy it, you don't have to spend hundreds of more dollars to get what you want (Floppy drive, new mouse, etc...).

Honestly I can't say a whole lot to argue the point of Mac vs PC, because I honestly do not know a whole lot about Macs. All I know is that every time I've touched one I've wanted to run for my life. I'm a PC user through and through and will never consider using a Mac for any purpose, because I know that anything a Mac can do a PC can do at least just as well, no matter what people claim, because I have seen the numbers.

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charliex

"the mac god" I wasn't intending to suggest you were implying apple invented it, just pointing out that microsoft did (partly).

From what i can see the 98 233 Bondi Blue iMac came out in august 98, Windows 98 came out in july 98, perhaps I'm missing something, but why is it the iMac made the USB standard (especially since apple werent a founding member, and microsoft were and w98 was out before )?

On top of that USB first appeared in windows 95 in September 1996, two years before the release of the bondi iMac.

Unless I misunderstood what you were saying, or the release time of the bondi Imac.

darn angle brackets..

losfp

What matters in the end is personal preference. I actually don't give a shit if some guy gets a few extra fps in quake. As long as I prefer using a Mac, that's what I'll use. If you haven't used a recent version of both PC and Macs, or even NEVER owned or extensively used both platforms, then IMHO you're in no position to objectively comment. People are naturally defensive about their choices - if their choices are attacked, so are they by extension.

Who cares anyway? Arguing about PCs vs Macs is like arguing religion. Neither side will admit defeat (and even usually even refuse to coexist). I'll continue to use both my PC and my Mac and the rest of ya can do whatever the hell you like too

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Grrr... Argh....

Nad Adam

I must be the only one I know who has actualy "switched" a rabid mac user to pc. I just sat next too him at our college while he was using a mac laptop and I was using a windows one. He was always complaining about microsoft and pc:s and I wasn't realy botherd since it was a apple using school and I heard this every day. We had some projects togheter and I could always find the programs we needed for my comp and when he couldn't he'd have to work on mine, I guess that's what got him off the fear of the "horribly hard to work with" windows interface. After the winter holidays he came back with a compaq laptop and asked if he could borrow my softwarediscs.

His only comment to his 'switch' was: "Macs are for children and people who aren't realy intressted in computers." Although those aren't my words I can see how he's thinking.

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losfp

So his complaint was that he couldn't find enough warez for Macs? Just didn't know where to look....

horses for courses though. Your friend's support base (ie: you) used windows. If the people around you use windows, it'll be easier to find people who can help you out on that system.

I've had just about the opposite experience. Everything I could do on my PC, I found an equivalent or better app on the Mac - particularly on the A/V side of things. Better is perhaps too harsh a word. I just like them better.

Oh, and I'll challenge your friend's comment too.. I'm not a child, and I'm pretty sure I'm interested in computers, given that I'm working in web design, and spend almost every waking hour on my home computer. Actually maybe I didn't want to admit that.

Right. I'm stopping now. I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this debate. Y'all use what you want, you hear?

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Grrr... Argh....

Konichiwaneko

interesting...I guess I'm the only person who would be sad if Adobe left my platform.

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hulk

It's not like they're dumping a majorly needed product. When you think that an average port costs upwards of $20000, you can see why they don't want to do it. And it's not like anyone pays for anything windows, anyway. Hell, my friend (who is a PC user) has had his computer for 3 years and only bought one game out of like 50 he has. Me, I've bough every single one I play.

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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex."
-- From an IGN game review.

rubicon

As of 7/9/03 the poll has PC at 60% and Mac at 36%. Interesting numbers considering that Apple only has 3-4% market share.

I use a PC for everyday work and play. It can be a real pain in the ass sometimes, but so can the Mac. I'm growing weary of Microsoft's attempts to control everything happening on my machine. Apple seems to give you choices. I like the fact that OSX is UNIX _and_ can run all the great graphics and video applications from Adobe, etc. Linux can't.

I'm selling off a bunch of PC equipment to buy a laptop and I think I'll go with a PowerBook. Windows and Mac are relatively interoperable at this point (I have a G4 at home which plays nicely with 2000 Server and XP). Macs might cost a bit more but you know the compatibility will be there.

Anyway, use whatever gets the job done but I'd like to see Microsoft take more hits from Linux and Mac to keep MS on their toes.

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brandon11983

Macs are overpriced, incapable, incompatible pieces of shit. Sure you can go and buy a digital cam for your Mac and know it will work... but what if the 2 that are compatible with Macs don't have the features you want/need? As a PC user, I know I can get all the features I need out of a piece of hardware, and not have to make sacrifices so it's compatible with my system.l

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