viveleroi0

My soon to be wife has one major issue that we can't seem to get past...

For three years, because of her low self-esteem about her body, she has resorted to asking me which girls I think are hot.

I damned if I do, I'm damned if I don't.

I have to honestly say that she is a tad overweight, etc, but she still does appear attractive to me. Out of respect I have almost always said no when she asks if I think this movie star is cute, or that is cute. Occasionally I say maybe... which defies my own pattern.

If I say yes (because I honestly find 90% of all women she asks about attractive) then I'm screwed... she thinks that means I am more able to cheat and that I dont appreciate her.

If I say no all the time... she knows I am lying for her benefit.

The FEW times I said maybe she gets all pissy and depressed and it kills to me!

She complains about her eating habits, her looks, etc but never does jack squat. She barely ever works out or anything... obviouly she lacks the drive to change what is wrong.

I on the other hand would offer to take runs each night if my schedule permitted it, but it doesn't.

I have told her how annoying her asking for every woman gets, yet she stills does it. I have said a thousand how nice she looks etc but she never believes me.

She is also a person who gets VERY upset at where we live... after a few months she hates it and wants to move... we've moved like 8 times in the last three years.

I was once depressed myself and I understand the signs... but not these. Now, I live my life very happily and understand the facts that what I don't like does not have to be if I am willing to act upon them... but I cannot find a way to show her that life is only what YOU make it.


Girls... is this normal for a girl? I know self-esteem issues are commin with women but not like this. I have never cheated, I express my deepest feeling of how wrong it is... etc but she still has cheating dreams etc. She has never been cheated on either.


What can I do to help her see the world is not as bad as she thinks?

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"It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't care"
- Homer Simpson

MacGnG

next time she asks or when u feel it appropriate i think u two have to have a disscusion about it and tell her what u told us. u have to tell her that this upsets you because she gets so upset. but she might get upset if u bring it up, so i'm really not sure how to bring it up but u 2 gotta talk.

viveleroi0

The issue is that I DO everything I can. I surprise her with her favorite dvds, I take her out to dinner, I treat her ice cream, I write poetry for her, you name it, I do it.

There is a BIG difference in looking. The fact that some else is attractive is never going to change... what does change because of my love for her is the fact that I would never even consider being with someone else...

__________________
"It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't care"
- Homer Simpson

seventhtao

Yeah I don't think, not finding ANY other woman attractive or noticing them is realistic expectation. This is simply not reality for most men and not you as you seem to be saying. Making her think this is so will only create a bubble for her to live in, one which will eventually burst with dire consequences. I've known and been with girls like this and I have to honestly say that the only solution for me was to leave them to figure this out for themselves as NO AMOUNT of effort on my part could remedy what was broken inside them. Melun I'm sorry but if what he stated about the way he treats her is true, then you cannot just say "Well if she is this way then your obviously not doing right."

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mtsgsd

With respect, I really, really object to that. People do not become un-attractive simply because you have found the love of your life. You do not have to have any interest in someone to recognize that they are attractive. To hold anyone to your standard is wrong and cruel.

After all, we are obviously talking about physical "beauty" here in the first place. Assuming that you both married each other for the "right" reasons (and lets not go into that, just mean not for convenience or obligation etc) there must be many things that you each love about each other. Looks are not necessarily at the top of that list.

In other words, you are not the most attractive woman in the world. Therefore, there are others who are more attractive than you. Physicaly. In fact, I'll go so far as to say that in any single area there's probably someone "better". But you as a whole add up to everything your husband considers to be important to him. That's why he married you right?

IMHO being hurt or concerned about this tells your husband or wife that you are insecure about your relationship, and that you don't really believe in their commitment. Further, it says that they can not be honest with you. This is a far worse crime.

Ok, I'll get off the soapbox now.

viveleroi0

^ --- Great!

__________________
"It's not that I don't understand, it's that I don't care"
- Homer Simpson

Tirian

There is one thing that I have discovered for myself in life, and now hold to be true....

No one can in any way influence anothers self image.

I know that there will be those who disagree with me, and suggest that having people who love you and believe in you can bolster your confidence etc., but my experience says this does not lead to true self confidence.

Only your wife can learn to like herself. You cannot make her. There is no amount of treating, poetry, or other flattery that can make your wife truly truly like herself.

If I knew the answer to how she could learn...my own life would be better, but sadly I do not. Each person is responsible for their own life, and self worth.

Note: I am not talking about having an inflated ego here, I am talking about accepting, and believing in ones self.

mtsgsd

I have to agree. In fact, from my outside perspective I have to say that you should run, not walk, away from her while you have the chance. She has issues that can only be addressed by professional help. Unless she's willing to get this help, you are only signing up for a world of pain. Right now, you're supporting her self-destructive behaviour, and it will bring you down too.
Sorry for the harsh words.

Slims

I think you are only fueling the fire if you lie to her to give her what she wants all the time...When she figures out that you are lying about the other women, she will probably come to the immediate conclusion that you are lying about your opinion of her.

Sit her down and say: "Look, other women are pretty too. That doesn't in any way detract from my feelings for you. I think you are better than anyone else out there, and you are the only one I am in love with."

Then make her see a therapist. Go with her even.

Her (extreme) behavior is not normal for girls, and if she doesn't improve, I would leave her. You won't be able to make her happy. Ever.

__________________
"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." - Winston Churchill

"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act out their dream with open eyes, to make it possible." Seven Pillars of Wisdom, T.E. Lawrence

BentNotTwisted

Talking to her about what you think of other women will not make a difference. She has already decided how she feels about herself and her body image.
Keep in mind, marriage will not help. You may be thinking 'After I marry her she will see how much I love her and have no interest in other women.' This will not work. Check out the recent study at: http://www.buildingbetterhealth.com/...outn/103423328
People are either happy or unhappy and marriage will not change their disposition. So, you can leave or anticipate this behavior will continue indefinitely.
I married a woman with similar issues. She doesn't ask me outright what I think of other women, but I can see the hurt in her eyes if she catches me looking at another woman when we are out and about. Fortunately she has many other fine qualities that more than make up for her poor self-esteem. I just do my best to make sure she knows how sexy I think she is.

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IS THAT IT ???!!!
Do you even know what 'it' is?

When the last man dies for just words that he said... We Shall Be Free

denim

Would telling her that asking you that all the time is pushing you away make any real difference? I ask this in general, not just of viveleroi0.

Seems to me, and I'm not exactly the most experienced person on this topic, that if she doesn't trust you, you should rethink marrying this person at this time.

Daval

I think you should go see a counsellor about your massive inferiority and insecurity problems and a marriage counsellor about your trust issues.

If you are so insecure in your relationship that you could not deal with your husband thinking someone is attractive then you have massive problems.

__________________
"It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it."
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Cynthetiq

Hmmm... a bit on the abrasive side, but I think the point is the right one.

There's lots to say about it like,"just because you are on a diet doesn't mean you can't look at the menu."

IMO my wife and I talk constantly about "beautiful people" that we walk past and such. She knows at the end of the day that I'm going home with her and laying my head down next to hers. She's very secure in herself, as am I. It would suck yes, if she ran off with someone else, but because she thinks that Ewan McGregor is hot, I'm supposed to induldge her in her fantasy not in her reality.

thinking someone is attractive and wanting to get busy with them are a far cry from actually trying to court and bed them.

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boatguy234

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sierra2774

She must be young....Because I used to be that way when I was younger but now I point out pretty women to other people...I guess I am attracted to them as well! I like the way I look, but every woman always feels the need for improvement, so when I see these perfect women...It just give me more motivation to make myself look better.

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"Every tomorrow brings new opportunities, challenges we must address...A chance to affirm all our wishes and dreams, to seek beauty and true happiness."

mystmarimatt

hmmm...well, some people said to get away from her, but that's not exactly a compassionate solution, is it? the best thing you can do, assuming it is as bad as it sounds, is get her to go to therapy, because right now, you know you love her, and i'm sure she loves you, and just flat out leaving her will leave you, as well as her, in a pretty bad position, emotionally.

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Words of Wisdom:

If you could really get to know someone and know that they weren't lying to you, then you would know the world was real. Because you could agree on things, you could compare notes. That must be why people get married or make Art. So they'll be able to really know something and not go insane.

geep

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. My wife is VERY insecure about her looks, yet I have no problem telling her I think she is the most beautiful woman in the world to me. It is because that is what I believe. Physical attractiveness is simply that. You tell her what YOU believe, not what you think she wants to here.

By the way I wouldn't leave her just because she's insecure. How shallow is that?

By the way mystmarimatt, I started out a Socialist, moved on to the Democratic Party (I even voted for Mondale) and have moved on to the Republican camp. I have found there is no lack of annoying people with severely diminished mental capacity no matter where you go.

ganon

I am going to call down the thunder here, but trust me, I have years of experience, and have done the counseling, for myself and as the counselor for others. Do not get married until you can work thru this. That is my first piece of advice. Secondly, the kind of self image problems she is demonstrating sound very deeply rooted, so it isn't going to be easy. You never ever want to reward this kind of behavior. (I know, we aren't training a puppy here) Her self image is not your problem, but you can help. She needs to understand that you are not the answer to her self image problems, but that how she feels about herself is in her control. So, she has some kind of learned helplessness about her self image, and she needs to learn how to flex some better thinking muscles and start changing things. Sometimes, a counselor is the best person to do that with. I think that might be the right way to go, because she talks to you about how she's not happy with this or that, but won't do anything about it. She doesn't want to change (not yet) she wants affirmation for who she is right now. When she asks you if you think someones cute, ask her why she wants to know. Put it back in her court. don't let her get you on the ride, because the ride sucks. If it goes back and forth, tell her you would feel shallow if you just judged people on their appearances, so you just don't feel comfortable narrowing it down that way. Ask her about her goals for herself. If she doesn't have any good self improvement goals, tell her you want to help her set some, and help her meet them. Tell her how much that kind of goal setting means to you. Reward her behavior when it is positive with tons of praise, but don't even acknowledge her when she starts turning into the sucking black hole of need. It will kill you if you become her life support system.

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"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

mtsgsd

Amen brother. Ganon has it down cold.

ganon

it's nice to know all of my experience in the swirling vortex of my pyschological torment isn't all for naught!!

__________________
"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

geep

If a woman had a physical defect, such as a club foot, would you tell her you won't marry her until she has a doctor fix it? I hope not. Insecurity is a handicap no different from any physical defect. You should treat it no differently. Talk to her about the possibility of counseling but don't threaten her with breaking off the marriage unless she does. Don't hang contingencies on a situation were they could turn against you. No counselor in the world can help someone who doesn't want to be helped, so what if she doesn't want to change? Will you just dump her then? Ask yourself this question- How much do you love her? If you truly love her then her handicap should not stop you from marrying her. She does need to know how you feel about those questions and Ganon is right on the mark. Put it back in her court. Ask her how she'll feel about your answer. The only way you will become her support sytem is if you let it happen. Tell her you're uncomfortable with these types of questions and tell her why. Tell her that you love her and tell her why. People put way to much emphasis on physical appearance. In my previous post I said I have no problem telling my insecure wife that she is the most beautiful woman in the world TO ME. I say this to her because I believe it. Surely some women are more attractive than my wife but my love for her gives her a beauty that no porn queen can match. Why would I want to be with my wife forever if I didn't believe that? Wouldn't that mean I'M insecure for settling with a less than beautiful woman. Shouldn't I want the best? I believe I have it, and I tell her that, too. I talk to her openly about her insecurity and she knows it exists and how I feel about it. She knows she should work on it but whether she does or not is NOT the determining factor in our relationship. I am not her crutch but I refuse to let her insecurity stop me from being with the woman I love. I also have some insecurities of my own. Any person that says they feel 100% secure 100% of the time is a liar.
Maybe she shouldn't have married me until I worked them out?

ganon

I have to disagree to a point. A physical handicap is different than a mental one, and we have not determined that the woman in question is "handicapped" in the first place. As far as healthy relationships go, it is often far more difficult to deal with some issues once you add the change of mind and expectations of marriage. Marriage is listed as one of the most stressful events a person can go thru, and it is a poor time to tackle obvious personality issues. I did not recommend "withholding" marriage, or praise, or affection as a tool to leverage behavior out of the other person, I just feel that adding the stress and complication of marriage at the same time so much insecurity is self evident is not a good course of action. There is a natural level of insecurity that is evident in anyone. I think it is healthy. probably keeps us from acting like alec baldwin,(egomaniac!). There is a huge difference between being a functioning well adjusted individual, and having issues in your life that keep you from relating to people in a healthy fashion. This girl is not healthy. All parties involved would be better served dealing with the issue before the issue is complicated by marriage.

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"My give up, my give up." - Jar Jar Binks

geep

Ganon makes it clear. Hey viveleroi0- how soon are you getting married because you got some work to do.

rsl12

i guess there's someone for everyone. I personally would have a hard time dealing with someone with that low of a self-esteem. actually, i doubt i could fall in love with someone who didn't already love herself. but if you're willing to make the sacrifice for her, then by all means!

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HockeyGuy

you're definitly gonna have to have a talk with her and tell her that you like her jsut the way she is etc. and that it doesn't matter what other ppl look like ( said in a nice way). Gl to ya!