simivin

Kangaeru, thanks for the comments. I think that some of what you said is true. Others not. Here's some of what I think:

- Things were unresolved with Sarah because of circumstances going years back, and yes, this includes my being "chicken-shit" and not doing anything about it for whatever reason. I began dating Cheery and stayed with Cheery over Sarah out of choice. I realized this and wanted this. My questions about Sarah waxed and waned, but ultimately were waning. I didn't want to sort things out with her -- that was in my control and the choice reflected by my decision to stay with Cheery.

- Do I feel bad I fucked it up? Yes I do. Do I wish things would have worked out? Yes I do. Admittedly, Cheery is my first serious girlfriend in more than two years (after a mostly immature long-term, long-distance relationship). I don't know as much as a lot of other people -- which is why I talk to people and come here and try to understand different perspectives. I haven't dealt with some of these situations, like with Sarah. I didn't realize early enough how important and right it was for the two of them to meet -- if I had, I would have done it and made any sacrifice to do so a long time ago. Just like I didn't really know about "emotional cheating" -- if I had, I would have been more attuned to that sort of stuff and would have acted better in some cases. The day I made the decision to break up, I was comfortable and confident in my decision -- the greater regret and powerlessness comes from recognition of mistakes after the fact.

- Everyone comments about me visiting Sarah the day after Cheery leaves. It was completely spontaneous and unplanned. I got online, she asked me where I had been for the last week, found out I was in DC, and asked me to this thing at a bar. I said ok -- and almost didn't end up going because I got lost and was late. Sure, Cheery could look at it and say it was suspicious, or insensitive, or whatever; however, that's where I had wanted her to trust that I wasn't doing anything, or going behind her back. I wanted her to trust exactly what I said and that there wasn't some weird plot. I wanted her to trust and understand that it was my ignorance of how it could be perceived. I wanted her to trust that I was just trying to act normally; that I would have hung out with any other friend had they asked. Would I go back and change that? God, yes. Do I think I should have to change that? No, I don't -- because there was absolutely nothing up.

- You're right, I may not have completely trusted Cheery's trust in me. This is derived from some different (sometimes small, sometimes stale) incidences, some of which she hates that I remember, but I do because they struck a chord with me. She commented at least once or more that it was bad that boys have options -- I told her we both have options if we so chose, but I chose to be with her. She was upset because a girl who I had known (yes, one who liked me), had sent me packages, even before we started dating. She got all upset a while ago because I was talking with other people online while talking to her -- that I wasn't giving all of my attention to her. Once, when I didn't want to come up one weekend (8 hour round trip, work for school, needed a break from driving), she thought it was suspicious if I didn't want to come up ("wouldn't you think it supsicious if I didn't want you to come up?" "Um, no, I'd think you have other things going on"). She was suspicious and searched through my email back in August; I had told myself I would breakup with someone who did that, but wanted to give her another chance. She didn't do it again, but she did get on my IM and check Sarah's away message back in November (which to me was almost, but not quite, the same thing). She was the one who told me in late August to go visit Sarah to figure things out -- when I didn't really want to -- and then got upset at me about it. Then she assumed that me going to visit Sarah in November was really me going to see who I wanted to date. She didn't believe me when I said that I was only going to visit Sarah because her birthday was that week; sure, it was going to be nice to see this girl for the first time in two years and who had started to become this huge issue, but I knew who I wanted to be with. Or she would look into the fact that I deleted a post on facebook, thinking it was because of Sarah. And then, the time right before Christmas, which I have already addressed. So yes, it was hard for me to put great faith in her trust, when her most sincere expression of trust came only after I told her I wanted to break up and only after I had been verbally handed my balls. If she hadn't freaked out on me, and had just trusted me and everything I said, I would have been one of the happiest guys around. Really, that is all I wanted.

- Yes, I should have set up a meeting, and should have set it up earlier. I've admitted this, and admitted it over and over. People are people; people make bad decisions sometimes based on feelings or thoughts or emotions. People sometimes try at one point in time, but fail to follow-through at another; at one point I wasn't timid about it, but was positively encouraging...and then things got lost in the shuffle or I got shot down. Timing doesn't work (ie. Thanksgiving). Or my patience to try to resolve this (thinking Sarah wasn't that big of an issue) contrasted with Cheery's haste and need (thinking she was a big issue), though I should have realized her need needed to be satisfied. I would gladly change this all, now, and be much more assertive and proactive, but again this is a lessons-learned.

- Honestly, it's somewhat funny you talk about controlling your own situation; I gave an old ex-girlfriend that talk many times. Yes I failed to get the two girls together, for which I am to blame, but weirdly enough, it seems like there were lots of things outside of my control, such as circumstance or whatever. Some people prefer the maxim "time will tell" or "que sera sera". I felt I did try to control things, but things did seem to get out of control, too...that is where some of my additional frustration comes in, because I like having control over my situation.

- You're right, Sarah is in some sort of weird limbo, although that is certainly more pronounced now (that I am single) than it was a month or two ago when I was with Cheery. I had made the choice not to get Sarah, and kept trying to tell Cheery this. But Sarah kept coming up and kept becoming an issue (yes, yes, they should have met -- we can assume I know that now and that that might have made a difference). It sucks to have ambiguous, unresolved relationships, but you know what? I don't think they are that uncommon -- how many people on this forum still have someone who they still wonder, "what would have happened"? Obviously, as time passes, as you get closer to someone else, this fades. So it was with Sarah.

- As for me and closure, yes, I'm unfortunately a "what if" or "shoulda, coulda, woulda" kinda guy -- not just in relationships. I had a tremendous undergraduate career...you know what I did at the end? "If I had done this, or hadn't done that." Generally, this dissipates given time, but it tends to take me longer than some people. I would honestly like to change this; I'm still working on it.

- Yes, I'm wallowing in my self-perceived powerlessness right now. I've heard and read lots of your and others' opinions that tell me I was wrong, but know this only after the fact, so cannot fix anything. Of course that sucks; of course there's a powerlessness, since I can't go back in time. It would be terribly easy to get over this and not look back if I just assumed that I was wholly and undeniably correct in my decision -- but I don't really apply that emotional defense-mechanism plus I'm trying to learn. And yes, it's all rather pathetic as I sit here wishing I could change things. But please, give me a break -- I'm still hurt and upset about this relationship and feel guilty about the things I'm finding out I did wrong -- when I get over this, when I get back to school, when I start to be productive again, I will find my feet and regain control. People say there is a mourning period in a relationship; I guess I'm still mourning. I still miss Cheery, I still love Cheery, and I still wish I could have made a couple different decisions (based on my knowledge now), to change things completely.

Trust me, I will not make the same mistakes again. I'm just sorry I hadn't learned better before Cheery. Thanks though, kangaeru, for you comments.

Sim

/Sorry for the long post...it kinda got long-winded as I responded to things.

Beccarain

I thought the same thing as I was reading Sim's first post back in September, and Cheery's post in Ladies Lounge. It's a shame though that the two of you wasted sooooo many hours of argument and hurt before deciding to end this relationship.

To share a personal experience . . . one of my dearest friends is a guy I dated for about a year, we had broken up and remained friends prior to my dating my SO. My SO has never had a problem with my dear friend (SO and I have been married for nearly 11 years). In fact, I will be my dear friend's "best person" in his wedding later this year.

Best wishes to both of you though. And actually, it was good to read the perspectives both of you had of what was happening; I certainly understand both sides.

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Onward, through the fog . . .

abaya

This, right here, is why you are incompatible, at least at this time in your lives. You both have very different wants and expectations of a relationship.

From what I can see, and from my own perspective as a woman, Cheery wanted you to be the kind of guy who didn't do "spontaneous and unplanned" things with other girls. Maybe she wouldn't mind you hanging out with them, but she would have liked for you to clear it with her first, or at least think about how it would affect her, or invite her along (dead horse). Being spontaneous and unplanned is not an excuse in this situation, if you KNEW how Cheery would react (which it sounds like you did).

On the other hand, you wanted her to trust everything you decided to do, even if it hurt her (perhaps because of her insecurity). You know that being who Cheery was, she could probably never trust everything about you and a female friend. Yet you proceeded in hopes that she would have changed everything about who she was, when all along, she was proceeding hoping that *you* would change everything about who you are (that you would consider her feelings before hanging out with another woman).

Incompatibility, my friend. Sometimes it can be overcome, with large amounts of sacrifice/compromise. But sometimes it's best to just call it what it is and try to move on. Yes, as long as you are posting massive posts on this thread, you are still very much in mourning. But it will get better.

Again, I am sorry. It just sucks, for a long time.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

rlynnm

This statement struck me.. It seems we are too caught up in trying to do 'what's just' that we end up sacrificing ourselves...forcing ourselves to beleive something that isn't entirely so.

Self deception...ain't it a wonderful thing.....

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The hardest thing is to be honest with yourself, especially if that means completely redefining the world you've come to know.

Don't look too hard, I'm right in front of you.

rlynnm

Amen Abaya...amen.

__________________
The hardest thing is to be honest with yourself, especially if that means completely redefining the world you've come to know.

Don't look too hard, I'm right in front of you.

simivin

I agree abaya, with everything. Maybe it was just the time of our lives, or my density and inexperience (ha, probably the latter). Like I told one of her roommates and his girlfriend, Cheery and I argued about separate things without really realizing it at the time -- she was arguing about my (in)sensitivity and I was arguing about her trust. I considered her feelings, but not enough or in the right way. In the end, I think that I should have changed because, while not completely desireable to me, it is a whole lot easier to change actions and behavior than mentality (Cheery).

Oh well. I guess that's how the cookie crumbles...I don't know that any more long posts will be necessary or possible, since I've said just about everything I can. Yes, it certainly does suck. Now I guess it's just a matter of seeing where things go from here.

cheerycheeks

If Sarah didn’t love you and want you, then this whole situation would have been completely different. I could never get over Sarah because I knew that your relationship with her, even though not physically was cheating, was inappropriate. I knew how she felt about you the whole time and I could never deal with how you went clubbing, drinking, freak dancing, leaning on each other at the subway, acting so people are telling you that you make a cute couple with her (showing it’s more than just friendly), and being invited to sleep in her bed when I knew she was trying to be more than friends the whole time and you acted like nothing was going on and she was just a friend. As you’ve said, she never crossed the line, but Sim, all that means is that she didn’t cross your line and that is something you could never understand. My line is not just sex, and your line is obviously only physical. So to you, since nothing physical happened with her (physical as in sex and kissing, etc. because even though there was grinding and hugging, that doesn’t count to you), you didn’t do anything wrong and it’s all my bad for over reacting, but to me, you were inappropriate in the relationship with her the whole time. You could never understand that my problem with Sarah was that she was WAY TOO close to you. She wanted you, still wants you probably, and you could never see that that was the problem for me. To me, if there’s someone outside of a relationship that is being too cozy like that with one of the members in the relationship, then the person in the relationship needs to back off and make their friend know that acting like that isn’t okay. I could not understand why you never did that. Why you wanted to be her date to the Christmas party, why you went drinking with her, why you would stay at her apartment. I do not think you did your job of keeping Sarah as just a friend, even though nothing physical, because she was not just being your friend. I have told you before, yes Sim, I know you aren’t physically cheating, and you never thought about that. You said you weren’t cheating, and that was the end of it for you. I think the people on the TFP hit it right on the nose with emotional cheating. After reflection, I know that is exactly how I feel. You could never give me what I wanted because you were giving in to her wanting you. My mom said that you were keeping your options open acting the way you did with her, which I think is true. I hope in the future you either don’t tell your girlfriend about the girls you wander about to save them the heartache of never knowing who you really want and that you keep friendships strictly friendly once you are in a relationship. Even though I’m insecure and that made it worse, your actions with Sarah were wrong. My insecurities are about cheating, because as you know I've been there. This situation with her certainly doesn't help me regain any confidence in men in that aspect, but oh well. I hope you can be better when it comes to other women outside your relationships because it’s not fair to your relationships to keep Sarah the way you have. Figure Sarah out, or say goodbye to any romantic thoughts of her and make sure she feels the same before you start acting like you have a platonic relationship. Your relationship with her has ruined relationships she has had and it’s helped to ruin ours. I think you should reevaluate your “friendship” with her before you attempt to date someone else.

I'm not going to tell you that I dont care if you go to the dance with her. I'm not going to call because it wont matter if i do, the situation is still the same: Sarah is still there, wanting to be with you, and i am still here, hurting because of your relationship with her. You are right though, Sim, I am trying to get over you. I am still living my life just as you should be.

Cynthetiq

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