analog

This is meant to be a constructive space. Posting something like, "I don't want to buy your goddamn tampons" isn't really constructive- that's just venting.

Take a moment, and really put together something (or a few things) that are overall observations on relationships, and the issues that you face. Try not to make it personal, and they don't have to target one particular sex. For example, the two I've written below are gender neutral, and don't allude to any guilty parties. They're simply my observations of problem areas in relationships.

Please join in by adding your own, following my example. If we can maintain a constructive tone and keep away from finger-pointing at the sexes for stereotypical behaviors, I think this can be a great atmosphere for opening up and learning.

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If the words, "I shouldn't have to tell you _____" ever escape your lips, you are insane.

Yes, you have to communicate. You do have to tell someone something if you expect anything to happen.

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Learn the word "compromise". You keep using that word- it does not mean what you think it means. You seem to think it means "tit for tat" (heh... tit). It does not.

Therefore, when you say, "I'm trying to compromise with you... you always do _______ so therefore I get to do ________ to balance it out" you are not compromising- you're just getting what you want by referencing something that's already happened that you didn't want.

Compromise is a settlement of differences by mutual concessions. It's not for use in retroactive balance-making. So, when you fail to communicate (see #1) and let us do _____ when you actually don't care for it, you should not be surprised that we're upset when you spring ______ on us later on, under the guise of "compromise". You would be surprised at how much each party can indulge in, if you communicate ahead of time. Anyone, male or female, will tell you that planned unpleasantness is much easier to handle than sudden unpleasantness. In other words, either person is more likely to be agreeable to the desires of the other if the situation starts out...

"hey I'd like to do _______ on saturday."
"ok. i'll tell you what. I know you're not a fan, but how about next saturday I do ______"

That is much more acceptable for both parties. This is completely opposite of what normally happens, which is:

"hey I'd like to do _______ on saturday."
"ok"
*one week later*
"yeah so last weekend you did _______ so now it's my turn to do something so tomorrow I'm doing ________"

That is not compromise. That is a very unhealthy attempt at getting what you what by offsetting what the other person got to do/have.

telekinetic

Once you've said "I don't care, whatever you decide is fine" you have defered your right to provide an opinion or input about the decision being made

"Where do you want to go to lunch?"
"I don't care, whatever you decide is fine"
"OK, Wendy's it is"
"No, not fast food."

>_<

Hyacinthe

Once you're in a relationship with someone it does not suddenly become ok to show up over an hour late for an engagement whether it be dinner, a party or anything else. If you have said "I'm going to be home at x" and you know you won't be home til y ring and let the other party know.

Seems like common sense yeah? You'd be surprised how many people don't though.


(twisted I have to agree about Wendy's not being food - they only sell icecream and milkshakes here with the occasional cheap hotdog)

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"I want to be remembered as the girl who always smiles even when her heart is broken... and the one that could brighten up your day even if she couldnt brighten her own"

"Her emotions were clear waters. You could see the scarring and pockmarks at the bottom of the pool, but it was just a part of her landscape – the consequences of others’ actions in which she claimed no part."

ShaniFaye

"I dont expect you to be able to read mind, so please dont expect me to be able to read yours"

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

tecoyah

Be affectionate....every day. I dont care if its a peck on the cheek, a back rub, or hot monkey love. It is important to show each other the attraction is there, continuously.
If by chance it begins to dwindle, discuss it and rekindle the intimacy.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

abaya

Is it just me, or does this still seem to be about venting?... that is, pointing out the negative behaviors of the other person in the relationship and making accusations of a vague "you" out there. But what do I know.

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Push-Pull

How about always try to surprise your partner in some way every once in a short while with (your idea here).

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"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

MrFriendly

Hehehe, Hyacinthe, Wendy's is a completely different store and concept in the US. Having eaten at one while travelling through the mid west they seemed to be a sad excuse for a diner. (Side note, proper American diners are the shiznit)

As for tips on relationships, going off what I've learned from bitter experience:

- Communicate you're fears and feelings if something is bothering you.

- Make the effort to do a little something-something every so often to show you appreciate them.

- Chances are, your SO had friends and people in their life before they met you. Try not to get possessive about them hanging out with their friends, even if you don't really get along with them. You don't have to do everything together. This ties into my last point....

- Give each other a lil space

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You are not a slave

ngdawg

If you are bound and determined to give an ultimatum,(something that should be forbidden in a relationship of any kind), be well prepared for the choice. And if you insist on pointing things out, be prepared to have things pointed out to you....
Relationships can never be of one person doing it all-there are at least two-share the success when it's great, take some of the blame when it isn't.
And the 'saying' is true: Love like there's no tomorrow.

Be real-if you have to 'act' a certain way, you're not allowing the other to see you and make the honest choice to fall in love with you. Warts and all, we are all worthy of love and of loving.

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Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

aberkok

Referencing the past, as a general concept is a very bad thing unless you get specific:

"You said this morning that you'd do the dishes and now I have no room to cook dinner." Is acceptable....

"You never do the dishes" is not.

So I always try to have a future based approach when dealing with these sort of "living together" issues.

Another technique I use when considering chores around the house is the "How good would I feel if I came home to find this done?" I actually try and imagine what it would be like to walk into a freshly mopped apartment, and, based on that feeling I then do it (as in "it would be so nice if Wife did this for me").

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!check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com

Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries."

Plan9

I think the worst thing that we do in relationships is...

Dialogue might go like this:

Man: "Hi! I like you lots! See, I got you this huge expensive sapphire engagement ring!"
Woman: "Oh, that's... nice. Thank you."
Man: "Whoa... what? You don't like it?"
Woman: "But I... I kinda wanted a diamond."
Man: "...a diamond?"
Woman: "They're the de facto engagement ring stone."
Man: "You said you didn't like diamonds because people in Africa get butchered for them."
Woman: "Yeah."
Man: "You were IN Africa for 6 months and saw it."
Woman: "Yeaaah."
Man: "You still want diamond?"
Woman: "Girls LIKE diamonds!"
Man: "People suffered and / or died for the shit!"
Woman: "Ugh! You never think about ME!"
Man: "But... but... I THOUGHT you were a people-loving hippie!"

...

I think the problem is that we get SO comfortable with our partner that we fail to do those "maintenance queries" every so often that eventually our asses are skipping around sideways in conversation like a too-scratched LP record. We know the channel we THOUGHT were we on with them about Topic A, B, C... but we didn't really check after a week, a month, a year. As the time line goes along... you build on your notion of them instead of what they actually do / say / feel. It almost always seems to culminate in some gigundo Pompeii-esque incident that utilizes the relationship no-nos of "you always" and "you never" to the max.

...

Assumption: I know I screwed that up. Thanks a lot, Global War on Terrorism.

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Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

kurty[B]

"In the Absence of Information People Make Things Up"

This is something I have to remind myself of as I share a lot of certain things about me with others, but hide A LOT, and when people do something, or assume something about me it is because I did not tell them otherwise, and gave them nothing to base the 'reality' on.

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In the Absence of Information People Make Things Up.

Racnad

Never say "You always" or "You never" unless it is really true.

Understand that not agreeing with you is NOT the same as not hearing you.

Be willing to hear your partner express thoughts about you and the relationship without taking it as a personal attack.

Is this venting? Well, yes, but in a more civil way. If these things didn't apply to our relaitionships we wouldn't be saying them, and we're not saying these things to our partners (at least not at the moment).

cj2112

I mentioned in another thread that I am currently in the most successful relationship I have ever been in. I attribute that success to a philosophy that we both approach our relationship with. I believe that if all parties in the relationship make a conscious effort to treat each other at least as well as they treat people they have just met, that they will find a level of satisfaction w/ their relationship unlike any they have ever known. This means being tolerant, patient, and kind.

I also suggest that each person be quick to see where they could improve, to constantly make an effort to do so.

One of the things I have tried to do w/ my last couple of relationships, is to look @ my part in their failure, not to blame or beat myself up for their failure, but to learn.

Seaver

"Never accuse your SO of cheating unless you either have proof or are willing to end it all on that belief."

I seem to get women who were cheated on constantly in their past, and because I like to go out drinking/dancing with friends I get this question all the time. No assumptions could probably piss me off more than this one, and yes I have ended multiple relationships instantly because of this one thing. I've never cheated, I don't believe I ever will, but I will never simply put up with this question

"Ladies can get men to do almost anything by asking and being sweet/polite, however unless you have your BDSM outfit on don't expect us to be nice when you tell us to do it."

Yes, you may get what you want. Yes, you may see the light at the end of the short tunnel, but this trick only works a few times. Eventually you turn into the nagging girlfriend his friends hound on him for keeping around, or into his mother (even worse). Don't do it, we WANT to make you happy because it makes our lives better. By ordering, however, you're changing the entire dynamic of the relationship and you turn it into a lord/serf scenario and that's not what you get married for.

Seriously, it's going on with my brother at the moment... it's sickening.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

Ballzor

As i have come to recently understand in my travels, people need to rethink the way they approach relationships. The last relationship I was in I made a huge mistake that a lot of people make. At the beginning when the love was just growing between us, I experienced a handful of pure unadulterated blissful moments. Whether it was during sex or just lying next to each other in a field not doing anything, the moment was pure and pristine and I wanted nothing else in the world then to just exist at that very moment.

As time progressed and things began to change, I was almost fanatically focused on getting back to those pristine moments, it consumed me. It drove me so much that I pretty much sabotaged the relationship because when things did not end up how I desired I acted out in anger and dissatisfaction.

The big issue here is that people equate their partners with their own peace and salvation. They become addicted to the moments you share that free you from your life, the times when no matter how bad your life is you just dont care. But these times are fleeting and never last, just like a drug those moments anesthetize your mind for a little bit and then promptly wear off.

As I've come to understand you have to do a lot of work in your own head before you even consider a relationship. You need to be at peace within yourself no matter what your situation is, so that when things dont go your way, you wont find yourself in mental hell because you aren't getting your fix. It is important to make the distinction between peace and happiness. You may not necessarily be happy with the fact that your partner wont do something that you desire, but you don't need that thing to be at peace.

If you can achieve this, your relationship will be infinitely healthier and regardless of how things turn out you wont find yourself going through a painful recoil to what has come to pass.

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Le Berger, Le Mouton, Ce qui vous mangerait? Je ne sais pas. -let it all drop cause fuck it I guess we lost-
<Danao>I am french so excuse my langage..
<Krost> ^^
<Krost> I'm American so excuse my president.

BigBaldRon

If you tell somebody "I dont want you here" or "I dont want to be in a relationship where....." then don't be suprised when the person gets up and leaves.

JumpinJesus

Your comment seemed to get ignored by nearly everyone who posted after you but I wanted to add that I agree with what you typed.

Most people, when asked for their observations, voice their gripes. I'd link this back to the negativity thread Charlatan started a few weeks ago.

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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses

abaya

Thanks, JJ. I actually started to post another response a few times (keeping with the OP), but every time I got a few lines into it, I felt like I was ranting about my husband... about things that I don't really feel comfortable venting in public. Those are our own issues to deal with, and we work through them in our own way as a couple.

Wouldn't it be better to talk about the ways that we build our partners up as people? That's just as important as working through differences, at least in terms of daily maintenance.

For example, I try to give ktspktsp a strong, deep backrub at least once a week, if not twice. He's bent over a computer at work all day and he gets pretty tight by the end of the week. I also try to be mindful of his need for space (we have a small apartment) and time to relax on the weekends. He makes me coffee to share with him every morning (and cooks most nights!), and we take turns e-mailing each other during the day to stay in touch about our days. I love having that verbal connection with him during the day.

We also try to please each other physically (general touching during the day) and sexually by finding out what the other needs/wants, and communicating what we need/want. If we are having a disagreement, we often just lie down on the bed and talk it out (it helps to be touching or holding each other while we're doing that... keeps the tone softer), and we never raise our voices or say "always" or "never" (particularly with accusations--someone else mentioned this earlier). The one bad habit that both of us have is to get a little passive-aggressive at times, but we usually call each other's bullshit immediately and that defuses things.

I think we really just respect each other a lot, which is the foundation of our relationship. Not to mention we laugh at each other's dorky sense of humor. All that stuff is really essential to keeping us in good shape, I think.

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Racnad

I really wish I could have a relationship like that, and I feel like what you describe is the way I treat her. For reasons not entirely clear to me, my wife disagrees.

abaya

Hmm, have you attended couples' counseling? Ktspktsp and I spent a few months there before we got engaged, which was helpful (even though we were already communicating pretty well). If you're not on the same page with your spouse, even though you feel like you should be, that's usually a good time to call in the counseling troops. (And there's absolutely nothing wrong with doing so... in fact, I admire couples all the more if they sign up for counseling!)

__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Racnad

My wife was seeing a theripist last year, and I went with her to one of the sessions. I think it was helpful for her. Unfortunately, among the difficulties we've had are financial. When you're trying to get debt under control it's difficult to justify a few hundred a month for a theripist.

abaya

Hmm... two thoughts come to mind:

1) Would it be possible to find a therapist on a sliding scale? I know they have those for individual counseling, so I can't imagine there not being couples' counselors on sliding scales (so you only pay what you can afford, based on your income).

2) If you really can't afford a therapist of any kind, how about a book to work through together? I know it sounds cheesy to some people, but not all of them are useless. I am a big fan of John Gottman's work (he's a social scientist, so he actually has valid and reliable techniques, a far cry from most therapists')... check out "The Seven Principles For Making Marriage Work," as it's fairly cheap ($14?) and nails a lot of issues right on the head (and includes practical aspects like surveys and discussion questions, to make sure you're interacting with and learning from each other as you read).

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And think not you can direct the course of Love;
for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.
--Khalil Gibran

Ourcrazymodern?

If you don't want it you ain't gonna get it. If you talk too much you aren't listening enough. If your partner isn't listening you need to alter your approach. It's not all about "you", it's all about "them", or more specifically, your "us".
Wanting too much is also often a problem. If I want another so much that I'd rather die than not have them, what have I done to them? To myself?
I have betrayed individual packaging.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT