MEAD

How does everyone feel about being the guy who continues to pursue a girl even after finding out she's dating someone?

I met this girl recently who I am very interested in. The only problem is that she might already be dating someone. Now the old me would have just let her go at the instant I knew she was involved, but recently I've been thinking that all the wonderful, funny, smart, and gorgeous girls out there are most likely already dating someone, and that if I let them go just because they are involved that I'll never get my chance with them. Plus I don't meet women I really am into too often (I'm picky). So when one does come around, I don't want to let her go too easily.

It's not liek I want to be labled a bad guy for trying to steal a girl away from her boyfriend, but I figure that I'm a pretty good guy. I have good qualities I think I'm attractive, caring witty, talented, chivalrious, etc... I might just be a better guy than the one she's currently with, and if I keep up my pursuit maybe she will think so as well, and in the end we will both be happier. I'm just really torn about going ahead and doing that, because I know it means I'd really have to put myself out there and possibly get hurt in a big way. I've also have had a guy swoop in and grab an ex before, and it really hurt me badly. So it makes me wonder if being that guy is a good or bad thing. What are your thoughts people?

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Carno

Well, stop thinking that, because it's not true.

I have nothing nice to say about anyone who tries to break a couple apart.

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Toaster126

You can't "steal" someone from their boyfriend. They can only leave their boyfriend for you or cheat on them. The line I usually use when talking to someone that is taken is "looking to upgrade?". Seems to bring everything to the table. If they are happy, they say no, if they aren't happy, I tell them I loathe cheaters so perhaps they should drop their dead weight and come to the dark side, lol.

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Cynthetiq

A person who disrespects a relationship that is already in motion by actively persuing someone in that relationship is a dick plain and simple.

I hope you reap what you sow.

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Carno

Yeah I meant to go into that, but I was too lazy

Still, actively pursuing someone who is in a relationship is a shitty thing to do.

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cj2112

I had this done to me, succesfully, with my now ex-wife....the fucker got exactly what he deserved....he got her!

Carno

Hahahahaha...

Oh that is good.

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Jinn

I'm not sure I see the moral issue that the previous posters do. If she's inherently so weak-minded that Man B can "sway her" and "steal her away," from Man A, then Man A owes Man B a thank you for showing him. I don't see anything wrong with talking to a "taken" lady as a single man. Unless you're forcing the issue, you're doing nothing more unscrupulous than talking to a single woman. I think (and I can somewhat relate to) those opposed to this are those shaky enough in their relationship to be insecure that she'd actually stay with them.

That's just me.. ?

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Willravel

The word "hate" comes to mind. I would tel this guy she is with someone else. Live with it.
If she's not free to date you, don't persue her. It's that simple.
It's not up to you to decide whether you are better than her current bf, it's up to her and her alone. Frankly, your coming off very cocky and very immoral. Those aren't traits that women usualy swoon over.

Attempting to initiate an affair is wrong. Leave her alone, at least until she breaks up with her current bf.

MooseMan3000

Talking to, flirting with, even trying to date a girl who is "taken" is not necessarily "trying to break a couple apart."

The way I see it: if a you're with someone who you only sort of like, you might be looking for a new relationship. If you're in a declining relationship, again, you might be looking. If someone comes along who you fit a lot better with, and you end up with them instead of your existing partner, where's the harm?

Many people stay in relationships merely because they're convenient, or because they're afraid of being alone. Does this make dumping someone at the first sight of something better OK? No, but staying in an unhealthy relationship is worse in the long run.

Furthermore, as JinnKai said, if someone can be "convinced" to leave a relationship to pursue one with you, chances are it isn't a very strong relationship anyway. Would I want to date someone who was "convinced" to break up with her boyfriend to date me? No, but I don't give a shit if someone else wants to fuck that slut.


Really, what it comes down to for me is that I see a lot more unhealthy relationships than I do healthy ones. I don't care how those unhealthy relationships end. End of story.

Carno

Still, why try and force the issue? Why not just let the relationship end on its own?

Fact is, you're trying to prematurely end someone's relationship, a relationship that might have lasted had you not interfered. Whether or not it was a strong or weak relationship is kinda irrelevant in my opinion.

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Hektore

I'm totally with JinnKai Here, the only thing I have to say to man "B" is, don't be surprised when you're owing a thank you to man "C".

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Suave

There is a distinct possibility that the hostile reactions to relationship "infiltrators" are due to the insecurities of those who loathe them. If you have complete faith in your relationship, for what reason would you be so negative to those who would offer themselves as an alternative?

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Martian

My stance is a bit different. If the girl leaves me for some guy, well.. que sera, sera. Granted it's never happened to me before, but I don't think I'd be too upset about it past the initial break-up sorrow.

From the other side, I'd never try to get between a guy and his girl for two reasons. The first and more traditional reason is that it goes against my morals. I still believe in honour and that aint it. Aside from that, I'm not looking for a cheap fuck. Relationship-wise, if she'd leave him for me, who's to say that she won't leave me for someone she thinks is better down the line?

Either way, I'd say it raises more questions about the girl than it does the guy.

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Willravel

That sounds great on paper, but there is no such thing as complete security. If you value your relationship, you do consider what could harm that relationship and try to avoid it or actively protect your relationship. I love my wife and she loves me, and there is no doubt of that in my mind....but if Jude Law showed up naked in my bedroom in front of my wife and started reading her poetry, I would beat him without mercy. Does that mean that I am worried about my wife leaving me for Jude Law? Not really. While she might find him attractive, he is obviously a ponce in real life and would be unbearable to live with (just ask Sienna Miller). Despite my being certian that my wife will always be faithful, I would still hate Jude Law for trying to do something to do damage to my relationship with my wife.

There has to be honor among men (and women, for that matter). Attempting to undermine a relationship is dishhonorable.

theusername

If it was my girl, I'd probably beat the shit out of you and you'd totally deserve it. Plus, if she left him for you chances are she'd leave you for the next best thing that comes along. That's no way to start a real relationship.

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KungFuGuy

ditto.

personally, i don't see anything wrong with testing a relationship. People are boyfriend/girlfriend because they're not sure if they're really ready to make the ultra long term committment.

That being said, it's okay to make enquiries about a girl who is dating someone, to see if she would like to leave him, or even if its an open relationship. It would be wrong to pressure a person after being rejected though. Also i think its wrong to even think about it for people who are married/engaged to be married.

World's King

If she leaves this fucker for you... What's gonna stop her from leaving you for some other poor shmuck?


Stay far away.

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TotalMILF

That's a damn good point. If she did it once, who's to say she wouldn't do it again? Could you really trust someone like that?

So, how would you feel if you were in a relationship and some random dude who thinks your girlfriend/fiancee/wife is "perfect for him" started trying to steal her away from you? Not so cool, is it? Don't be a douchebag.

Suave

I agree. I'm just saying that it seems that the underlying cause for the whole concept of honour is essentially lack of confidence and/or insecurity (not on the most conscious of levels necessarily). Merely an observation.

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Crack

I agree with Hal, I wouldn't hate you, I would pity you. It's a dick move. Leave it alone. People need to be able to make up their own mind about ending a relationship, trust me, if she were so inclined, she will leave him on her own, without your help.
As others have said, this is no way to start a mature relationship. Go to a bar, find a single woman. Leave other guy's girls alone.

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cyrnel

I've been that asshole. Though I was young and stupid and didn't initiate, I let it happen. Of course I knew better, but I let her acceptance and my dick run with things. They later divorced. I can't say she wasn't on her way out before I arrived but either way I'll never know. It's a bad thing for one's closet.

Considering your attempts a test of that relationship's strength is bullshit. Rationalization. Repeat that a couple times.

Surely you know by now that relationships and their stability aren't static. Even the best couples go through ups and downs. Being around someone for work, school, whatever, and maintaining a friendly demeanor is one thing. Discovering that person's status the next. If you know their status yet continue prodding, possibly in a time of weakness, and cause further damage then yes, you're an asshole. If you fail you just look like an idiot. Nice choice.

Steer clear, make note of the qualities, and keep looking. It's a big ocean.

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MEAD

Wow, the response has been overwhelmingly negative. I totally understand that. But the people with these complaints seem to be odler folk. I'm a young guy (20) going after a young girl (19) who may or may not be involved. It's dating, not marriage at this point of my life. To assume that everyone at my age is as commited as a married couple is foolish. People date to find that special person that they could be with for the rest of their lives. They don't date to settle on one person and block every other possible opportunity out. My intentoin was never to trick or pressure this girl into anything, but to merely be perhaps a better opportunity. I wasn't going to be sending her flowers or diamond earings. I was just going to be there, as myself, the best me I can be, no pressure. And I don't think so lowly of myself as to believe that I couldn't possibly be better than the guy she might currently be dating, or any guy any girl I might become interested in is currently dating for that matter. I'm sorry but I just won't be that insecure even if you do want to call it cocky. It just seems to me that pretty, smart, and funny girls don't stay single for long. Just because I wasn't there the second one becomes available doesn't mean I don't deserve one.

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Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

Willravel

This suggests that you do not see dating as a commitment. Dating is a commitment. There is value in a connection even in casual dating. To try and destabilize that connection is disrespectful of both parties. It's really that simple.
You're 20? Well guess what...most of the people who have responded to your post are or have been 20 at one point or another. For me, it was only 2 years ago. I am not an old fogie looking back to the 50s for advise on modern dating (not that there's anything wrong with that). I simply have the perspective of some extra time and experience. I've never once persued a woman or girl that I knew was dating someone else exclusively because to persue her is to tempt her into being unfaithful. Like several have said in this thread: you don't want to turn a girl into a cheater and then date her. If she's already a cheater, she's bad news and not worth your time. If she cheats for the first time with you, then it's likely you might have created a monster.

There are pretty, single, funny, single girls out there. Go find them.

JumpinJesus

My response won't be quite as negative as others have been, but I will say that it's probably best not to actively pursue her. You said yourself that you've had it happen to you and you didn't like how it felt. I'd just say that keep in mind how you felt.

I'm a firm believer in Karma and I think that pursuing someone who's already in a relationship will build up some bad Karma that will eventually come back to you. If you truly are a better person for her, she'll realize it on her own.

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cyrnel

Sure there are levels of commitment, but if she's gone as far as to mention her boyfriend she's set the boundary.

Ask yourself, who are you trying to convince?

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There are a vast number of people who are uninformed and heavily propagandized, but fundamentally decent. The propaganda that inundates them is effective when unchallenged, but much of it goes only skin deep. If they can be brought to raise questions and apply their decent instincts and basic intelligence, many people quickly escape the confines of the doctrinal system and are willing to do something to help others who are really suffering and oppressed." -Manufacturing Consent: Noam Chomsky and the Media, p. 195

Sweetpea

WK said it so well.



if she's not loyal to him... she's not going to be loyal to you.

Then again... in SOME situations... the girl/guy is with some asshole and they didn't want to be with them anyway... but you being the impeteous is difficult, but sometimes, it does work out happily.


sweetpea

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Toaster126

Yeah, the two times I used the line... the first the guy was hitting her, and in the second case the guy was cheating on her... so I don't feel guilty at all.

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analog

Me either.

See, and that's not pursuit, it's simply saying, "hey, i'm interested- if things don't work out, I'd like to see more of you." And that's ok- especially where the only times he's said it were basically in relationships that weren't real relationships.

Agreed.

Absolutely. Well said.

jwoody

^What he (and just about everyone else) said.

You would actively pursue someone who would have no problems in dumping you if something more interesting came along.

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Poppinjay

I think what some of you guys are forgetting is that there are women who are perpetually in a relationship not because a guy rocks her world, but for the comfort and ability to be able to turn down guys she’s not interested in.

And when a guy she is interested in approaches, suddenly her boyfriend becomes “a guy she goes out with occasionally, nothing serious.”

If she’s married, then hands off. If she’s serious or committed to a future with her boyfriend, same thing. Otherwise, she’s fair game.

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shakran

well then she's the kind of spineless, wishy washy woman that I for one would not want.


And you'd really want to be in a relationship with someone that would do that to her boyfriend? As others mentioned, who's to say she wouldn't do the same to you?

Poppinjay

I don't disagree. But I don't know what MEAD wants. Fun and run, or a serious committed TLR. Seeing as he's 20, I wouldn't think so.

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rainheart

Which brings up a good point. If the girl is so great for you to go out with, what makes you think she will let go of a perfectly good relationship to be with you? Unless:
a) She isn't that great afterall.
b) You know for a fact that she is currently in a bad relationship.

To determine if the case is b, you would have to get chummy with the boyfriend and observe the couples' relationship. If the relationship is worth anything you might walk away in envy if you haven't prepared yourself.

You can of course assume that the case is b, but if you are wrong there are a number of things that can go wrong (off the top of my head):
1. You're stuck with a bitch.
2. The ex-b/f attempts to exact revenge (which may happen even if the case is b)
3. You might be too obtuse to recognize that she isn't worth it, and if she does leave you eventually for someone else, you end up hurting yourself.
4. You dump the bitch and she goes psycho ex-g/f on you.

ClostGoth

How does being 20 mean you're any less prepared for a serious committment? I'm 28 this year. And I've been married for 11 years. Do the math. ;-)

Also, as a woman in a committed relationship I'd have to admit that I probably wouldn't even notice if someone else hit on me. Other guys are off limits and I'm just honestly not interested. I'm sure there are other guys out there that I'd be just as happy with, but what's the point in looking? Hubby informs me that I have been blatantly hit on (even in his presence!) and just not even noticed. So maybe you'd approach this chick and (if she has any moral fiber at all) she'll pat you on the head like a good little boy and send you packing with a serene smile. :-) If she doesn't... like everyone else has said, do you want her doing the same to you?

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MEAD

To inform you guys, no I'm not looking for some "Fun and run." I'm just a perfecly decent guy who is sick of things not working out with the few women he actually falls for. I don't take relationships casually at all. I just know that some people do, and perhaps I might need to think that way to make my way into one. My whole idea is completely long term. I just want to get to know her, appear to have some interest, and genereally keep up an attractive personality. Now if she had a boyfriend you would'nt see me making any obvious attempts to be with her, but I still think it's pursuit because I am putting myself out there for possible rejection. I'm not trying to make something happen that wouldnt already happen, though If she was bored or unhappy with this guy, but really didn't see the point in leaving out of a perfectly understandable fear of change, then I would be someone on the otherside making it less scary.

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Here are some phrases I'd like to be able to say, in all honesty, before I die.
"That's it, send out the ninjas!"
"So then I had to kill my way to the second floor."

pig

MEAD, it all depends. For your particular situation, you need more information before you can make that call. Is she seeing someone, is she not? Is it serious, is it not. etc.

In the general sense, if she's seriously dating somone and you pursue, my experience is that the vast majority of time, it's a bad idea. In addition the ethics of the move / violating the noncompetition clause between guys as pertains to active relationships - I think the other thing you need to think about is that most people need some time after they get out of a serious relationship. Chances are, you end up being the rebound dick - but then she will tend to associate you with the old relationship and the pain of getting out of it. After fucking with you for a bit, she'll meet someone else and you'll be left SOL. I'd be a little careful.


ps. will, that shit with jude law had me cracking up.

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Jinn

I don't see how any comitted guy could be concerned that another man would "steal her away," unless he were truly unsure of his own capability. I have no direct fear of another guy "stealing" my girlfriend (quite a bit too possessive a word, if you ask me) because I know she'd be hard-pressed to find someone more awesome. And if she did, frankly -- I'd be happy for her. I'm not the only one who can make her happy, but I know I do a damn good job at it.

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feelgood

Nothing wrong with that dude, I think the others might've misread your post stating that you're aiming to be with her through a process of breaking the couple up.

I can see what you're saying now, it's actually a good idea to build a relationship with her, give her a chance to see your attributes.

It doesn't really matter if you're there to help her fallout from her previous relationship. What makes this particular statement so errie is that you're acting as if you're stalking her, preparing to grab her once she becomes available. That's not a very good way to start a relationship with her, especially when she finds out that the whole time you were friends with her, you were aiming to be her boyfriend the whole time and that's just plain shadow.

You can't just try to make her realize that her relationship isn't as good as she perceive to be. She has to make the choice herself, period.

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